Media. What mourning my Carl Weathers. This is Behind the Bastards, a podcast where me and my friend Jason Petty aka Prop are huge fans of the recently deceased Carl Weathers prop Man exactly. Yeah, he was a fucking real one. What was your favorite Carl Weathers?

Media. What mourning my Carl Weathers. This is Behind the Bastards, a podcast where me and my friend Jason Petty aka Prop are huge fans of the recently deceased Carl Weathers prop Man exactly. Yeah, he was a fucking real one. What was your favorite Carl Weathers?

You like you have.

You like you have.

To like pick a decade, you know what I'm saying, Like that's the hard part with him. You know that man had a fucking career because I mean obviously like Happy Gilmore. Yeah, absolutely, it's in the pantheon screen. Yeah, yeah, like that's in the pantheon. Like you can't, Yeah, you can't pick a character, you know, just so important.

To like pick a decade, you know what I'm saying, Like that's the hard part with him. You know that man had a fucking career because I mean obviously like Happy Gilmore. Yeah, absolutely, it's in the pantheon screen. Yeah, yeah, like that's in the pantheon. Like you can't, Yeah, you can't pick a character, you know, just so important.

I think Happy Gilmore it was like my favorite movie as a kid, Like we would paint Warhammer minies and watch it every I probably saw the movie two hundred times and yeah, he just and then fucking Predator too, and.

I think Happy Gilmore it was like my favorite movie as a kid, Like we would paint Warhammer minies and watch it every I probably saw the movie two hundred times and yeah, he just and then fucking Predator too, and.

Rocky Rocky Creditor like the big old like twenty inch pythons and like like looking huge, crazy dude.

Rocky Rocky Creditor like the big old like twenty inch pythons and like like looking huge, crazy dude.

I mean, rest in peace are real?

I mean, rest in peace are real?

On this second day of Black History Month, matter of fact, happy Black History Month. Yes, and I'll trade if I could speak for the black delegation, Like I'll trade Tim Scott for a let's say simply Red.

On this second day of Black History Month, matter of fact, happy Black History Month. Yes, and I'll trade if I could speak for the black delegation, Like I'll trade Tim Scott for a let's say simply Red.

We're gonna call simply Red black for this month.

We're gonna call simply Red black for this month.

Okay, we're gonna call him black cause like we're gonna call him black. Yeah, We're gonna we're gonna call him black for this month. Like that that white boy has some soul.

Okay, we're gonna call him black cause like we're gonna call him black. Yeah, We're gonna we're gonna call him black for this month. Like that that white boy has some soul.

Wow.

Wow.

Okay, hold and that there's no way that man ain't black.

Okay, hold and that there's no way that man ain't black.

We'll send out, we'll send out a letter. We'll send out send it to Manchester. You know who definitely isn't black. Prop Oh boy, Uh.

We'll send out, we'll send out a letter. We'll send out send it to Manchester. You know who definitely isn't black. Prop Oh boy, Uh.

Terrible, take hibout, bro take about I'm saying in four seasons, this is yeah, like this might be this this, this might be a top five top five transition.

Terrible, take hibout, bro take about I'm saying in four seasons, this is yeah, like this might be this this, this might be a top five top five transition.

Yeah we are.

Yeah we are.

We are doing finally the Robert E.

We are doing finally the Robert E.

Lee episodes.

Lee episodes.

Yeah, which, like you know, growing up in the South as I did, I'm a Texan boy, right. I think that people are broadly aware of that there were like three heroes who were like the canonical three male heroes because everybody loves Dolly Parton and Dolly's Dolly's Dollies gym, Yeah exactly, But there were there were three men that were like the holy Trinity of like Southern masculinity. When I was a kid, there was Dale Earnhardt, Samuel Houston, and Robert E.

Yeah, which, like you know, growing up in the South as I did, I'm a Texan boy, right. I think that people are broadly aware of that there were like three heroes who were like the canonical three male heroes because everybody loves Dolly Parton and Dolly's Dolly's Dollies gym, Yeah exactly, But there were there were three men that were like the holy Trinity of like Southern masculinity. When I was a kid, there was Dale Earnhardt, Samuel Houston, and Robert E.

Lee. Samuel who Samuel Houston, he's the founder, George Jackson.

Lee. Samuel who Samuel Houston, he's the founder, George Jackson.

I mean, I.

I mean, I.

Was not prepared for I.

Was not prepared for I.

Wouldn't call him like an arcana Southern masculinity though, And honestly, of those three, Dale Earnhardt is the only one who was actually a decent person. Right, that's brought people are broadly aware of that. Now, Robert E. Lee was a deep at least the kind of people who listened to this podcast, was not a great man, But there's still this kind of attitude that like, well, yeah, he was obviously fighting for an evil side, and so that says bad things about him. But he was a really good general. He was a great commander, and for visionist history, we will be talking about what he was good at and what he was bad at in these episodes, and we will also be talking about, in addition to his life, kind of the ways in which his life has been distorted and deranged by the kind of media that's come out in the century and a half since the.

Wouldn't call him like an arcana Southern masculinity though, And honestly, of those three, Dale Earnhardt is the only one who was actually a decent person. Right, that's brought people are broadly aware of that. Now, Robert E. Lee was a deep at least the kind of people who listened to this podcast, was not a great man, But there's still this kind of attitude that like, well, yeah, he was obviously fighting for an evil side, and so that says bad things about him. But he was a really good general. He was a great commander, and for visionist history, we will be talking about what he was good at and what he was bad at in these episodes, and we will also be talking about, in addition to his life, kind of the ways in which his life has been distorted and deranged by the kind of media that's come out in the century and a half since the.

First Civil War.

First Civil War.

Right, Yeah, and obviously you know you'll be doing an episode in our second week of these about the Lost Cause mythology and how that took off. I'm going to sprinkle a little bit of that in here, because, for one thing, Roberty Lee is kind of like on his own. He's not like Saddam Hussein. He's not threatening his high school teacher with a handgun to teach him how to read right. He's he is kind of the slight goodie two shoes. So in order to keep it interesting, we do need a kind of pepper in some of the deranged things people have said about him, since that really exaggerates his legacy. And a good example of this, a modern example of this is the book Who Was Robert E.

Right, Yeah, and obviously you know you'll be doing an episode in our second week of these about the Lost Cause mythology and how that took off. I'm going to sprinkle a little bit of that in here, because, for one thing, Roberty Lee is kind of like on his own. He's not like Saddam Hussein. He's not threatening his high school teacher with a handgun to teach him how to read right. He's he is kind of the slight goodie two shoes. So in order to keep it interesting, we do need a kind of pepper in some of the deranged things people have said about him, since that really exaggerates his legacy. And a good example of this, a modern example of this is the book Who Was Robert E.

Lee?

Lee?

By Bonnie Bader. Now you have seen books in the Who Was? Series? These are these kids books where everybody has a huge head, right, It'll be some yeah, like massive head.

By Bonnie Bader. Now you have seen books in the Who Was? Series? These are these kids books where everybody has a huge head, right, It'll be some yeah, like massive head.

Yeah he had, Yeah.

Yeah he had, Yeah.

Yeah, he's got one of those. And they're not from what I can tell, they're not on the whole super problematic. And I will say this one is not fully lost cause it's more that it like absorbs some Lost Cause stuff in the middle of like it's trying to be fair, but it yeah, it's almost impossible unless you're actually being a rigorous historian to not absorb some of that because there's so much. I'm not saying that to like forgive these people for doing it. But it's not like a it's not like a pro Confederacy book, right. Yeah, the cover of this is very funny that all of the the covers of these are unhindered.

Yeah, he's got one of those. And they're not from what I can tell, they're not on the whole super problematic. And I will say this one is not fully lost cause it's more that it like absorbs some Lost Cause stuff in the middle of like it's trying to be fair, but it yeah, it's almost impossible unless you're actually being a rigorous historian to not absorb some of that because there's so much. I'm not saying that to like forgive these people for doing it. But it's not like a it's not like a pro Confederacy book, right. Yeah, the cover of this is very funny that all of the the covers of these are unhindered.

I don't know why they give It's like everybody does.

I don't know why they give It's like everybody does.

Like the Golden Eye big head sheet for the people on these books, yuh yeah, like.

Like the Golden Eye big head sheet for the people on these books, yuh yeah, like.

When we got the Rosa Barks one for our daughter, like, yeah, we had a fend of those. I will say this though, speaking to speaking to like you know, obviously like as far as like American bastards like Robert E. Lee's he's on our rushmore, Like yeah, you can't not take him off the Rushmore. But to add to his mystique, like I can even say me as who again, listeners are not I say it all the time. You know, I'm a child of a freedom fighter or you know, black militant. I'm the child of one. But kudos to him, because the first time I heard of the General Lee was Dukes of Hazard. Yeah, and I loved the show, and I had the little I had a little General Lee hot wheels with the Confederate flag on top and shout out my dad for not ruining my innocence, yeah, and letting me love this thing, having no idea. Are not connecting the dots, you know what I'm saying. Why was you know I'm saying, but like, I didn't connect the dots. I thought it was cool seeing the car jump over to you know, in the stupid eighties show they jump over the ditches and yeah, the show.

When we got the Rosa Barks one for our daughter, like, yeah, we had a fend of those. I will say this though, speaking to speaking to like you know, obviously like as far as like American bastards like Robert E. Lee's he's on our rushmore, Like yeah, you can't not take him off the Rushmore. But to add to his mystique, like I can even say me as who again, listeners are not I say it all the time. You know, I'm a child of a freedom fighter or you know, black militant. I'm the child of one. But kudos to him, because the first time I heard of the General Lee was Dukes of Hazard. Yeah, and I loved the show, and I had the little I had a little General Lee hot wheels with the Confederate flag on top and shout out my dad for not ruining my innocence, yeah, and letting me love this thing, having no idea. Are not connecting the dots, you know what I'm saying. Why was you know I'm saying, but like, I didn't connect the dots. I thought it was cool seeing the car jump over to you know, in the stupid eighties show they jump over the ditches and yeah, the show.

I watched that show as a kid, right, And I watched the I watched the reboot movie, which wasn't great, and that probably I was like part of the Lost Cause stuff, right, Yeah, But these like who Was books that one of the things that's interesting about me is the kind of dichotomy between the bits of Lost Cause shit in there and the stuff that is trying to be like accurate history. Like, for example, there's this paragraph about the plantation system in the book that's like not bad, right, and this appears this this is like a little box that they put in when they say that, like the Lee family had a plantation, it's like a plantation life rich white people in the South lived on big farms called plantations, where crops such as cotton and tobacco were grown. Most of the workers on these plantations were slaves who were either born in Africa or descended from people taken from there. These slaves were forced to work for free from sun up to sundown. The slaves had no rights, and the plantation owners grew rich. And that's like, not bad. That's a pretty good way to explain that to a kid.

I watched that show as a kid, right, And I watched the I watched the reboot movie, which wasn't great, and that probably I was like part of the Lost Cause stuff, right, Yeah, But these like who Was books that one of the things that's interesting about me is the kind of dichotomy between the bits of Lost Cause shit in there and the stuff that is trying to be like accurate history. Like, for example, there's this paragraph about the plantation system in the book that's like not bad, right, and this appears this this is like a little box that they put in when they say that, like the Lee family had a plantation, it's like a plantation life rich white people in the South lived on big farms called plantations, where crops such as cotton and tobacco were grown. Most of the workers on these plantations were slaves who were either born in Africa or descended from people taken from there. These slaves were forced to work for free from sun up to sundown. The slaves had no rights, and the plantation owners grew rich. And that's like, not bad. That's a pretty good way to explain that to a kid.

I think those are yeah, bullet points. That is correct, that's the important stuff. Yet, here's how the book summarizes Lee's decision to fight for the Confederacy and fight for slavery. When asked to lead Northern troops against the South, Robert E. Lee was even more torn. How could he go to war against his friends and family who lived in Virginia. It was a hard choice. Robert thought about loyalty, he thought about honor. In the end, Robert decided to fight against the country that his forefathers helped to create. For Robert, the most important thing was his family and his home, Virginia. And that is bullshit. And yeah, we will talk. We will be in the episode where we get to this. We will talk more about that, but like, just as a quick aside, he had multiple family members who fought for the union, So like, no, it wasn't just a.

I think those are yeah, bullet points. That is correct, that's the important stuff. Yet, here's how the book summarizes Lee's decision to fight for the Confederacy and fight for slavery. When asked to lead Northern troops against the South, Robert E. Lee was even more torn. How could he go to war against his friends and family who lived in Virginia. It was a hard choice. Robert thought about loyalty, he thought about honor. In the end, Robert decided to fight against the country that his forefathers helped to create. For Robert, the most important thing was his family and his home, Virginia. And that is bullshit. And yeah, we will talk. We will be in the episode where we get to this. We will talk more about that, but like, just as a quick aside, he had multiple family members who fought for the union, So like, no, it wasn't just a.

Matter of not wanting to fight his family, right, not at all, because he did. He objectively did.

Matter of not wanting to fight his family, right, not at all, because he did. He objectively did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That said, this is a good example of like the milder and kind of the more modern side of the pro lead spectrum.

That said, this is a good example of like the milder and kind of the more modern side of the pro lead spectrum.

Right, this is a.

Right, this is a.

Casual absorption of the of the lost Cause narratives as opposed to a dedicated one. And I think it's interesting to kind of look at that in addition to somebody older and harder stuff.

Casual absorption of the of the lost Cause narratives as opposed to a dedicated one. And I think it's interesting to kind of look at that in addition to somebody older and harder stuff.

Right, Yeah, I think I'm gonna, like, I'll when we do the lost Cause thing, I'll probably hit this point hard. But I think it's important too because it keeps coming back like that, the difference between and the importance of the difference between history and memory.

Right, Yeah, I think I'm gonna, like, I'll when we do the lost Cause thing, I'll probably hit this point hard. But I think it's important too because it keeps coming back like that, the difference between and the importance of the difference between history and memory.

Yeah, and like and.

Yeah, and like and.

That memory is really more about the future and history is more about the past, because I like, memory is malleable, Like you can shape that memory shape's identity. It forms culture, it you know what I'm saying. It, It creates narrative. That's what memory does. Whereas history is the factual truth of what happened, which for most of us, even now, for most of us is rarely The point is like what actually happened. It's our memory of what happened, and how that shapes how I view the world world now. And I think that he's a perfect example of that in choosing to remember him a certain way.

That memory is really more about the future and history is more about the past, because I like, memory is malleable, Like you can shape that memory shape's identity. It forms culture, it you know what I'm saying. It, It creates narrative. That's what memory does. Whereas history is the factual truth of what happened, which for most of us, even now, for most of us is rarely The point is like what actually happened. It's our memory of what happened, and how that shapes how I view the world world now. And I think that he's a perfect example of that in choosing to remember him a certain way.

And it's it's interesting. I think that that that dichotomy between like reality and memory is especially harsh when it comes to war. And I can think of a modern example this from my own life. I have a couple of friends who served in a marine unit in the early invasion of Iraq, and I've gotten to spend some time both with them and some o their like like gatherings of their old unit. And one of the interesting things is hearing different people tell stories about the same event and then talking to others about them be like, that is not what happened. That is apps and they were all there right like that, and they have some people have convinced themselves of and who knows how much of it is like wanting to believe that you did better than you did. Who knows how much of it is just honestly like it's a chaotic situation, like your memory gets fucked up. Trauma fucks up memory. Like, yeah, it's it's super malleable. So when you get to the history of warfare, right, Like, just even just because something is an eyewitness account doesn't mean it's fucking true. Yeah, that's just the reality of the situation. But to get to the truth of who Robert E. Lee was and why he did what he did, we have to start a lot further back than his own life, back in fact, to the earliest Les in the historical record. Now, the precise reality of his genealogy pasted a certain point is up for questioning, right, given the state of record keeping. Yeah, you should interpret what I'm saying is not like this is the objective genealogical truth, but this is the family lore that he was raised with, Right, So this was the truth for him, which is what matters for how his background affected him more than the reality of it, right.

And it's it's interesting. I think that that that dichotomy between like reality and memory is especially harsh when it comes to war. And I can think of a modern example this from my own life. I have a couple of friends who served in a marine unit in the early invasion of Iraq, and I've gotten to spend some time both with them and some o their like like gatherings of their old unit. And one of the interesting things is hearing different people tell stories about the same event and then talking to others about them be like, that is not what happened. That is apps and they were all there right like that, and they have some people have convinced themselves of and who knows how much of it is like wanting to believe that you did better than you did. Who knows how much of it is just honestly like it's a chaotic situation, like your memory gets fucked up. Trauma fucks up memory. Like, yeah, it's it's super malleable. So when you get to the history of warfare, right, Like, just even just because something is an eyewitness account doesn't mean it's fucking true. Yeah, that's just the reality of the situation. But to get to the truth of who Robert E. Lee was and why he did what he did, we have to start a lot further back than his own life, back in fact, to the earliest Les in the historical record. Now, the precise reality of his genealogy pasted a certain point is up for questioning, right, given the state of record keeping. Yeah, you should interpret what I'm saying is not like this is the objective genealogical truth, but this is the family lore that he was raised with, Right, So this was the truth for him, which is what matters for how his background affected him more than the reality of it, right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the family lore of the Lees traces their line back to the Norman conquest of England. The founder of the family, according to legend, was Lncelot Lee from l Dune, France. He marched into England with William the Conqueror and earned a name for himself in the Battle of Hastings in ten sixty six. Right that that is the origin of the Lee family and family lore.

And the family lore of the Lees traces their line back to the Norman conquest of England. The founder of the family, according to legend, was Lncelot Lee from l Dune, France. He marched into England with William the Conqueror and earned a name for himself in the Battle of Hastings in ten sixty six. Right that that is the origin of the Lee family and family lore.

Right, wow, as they know it. That like they formed modern England. Yes, yes, that's wow, that's quite and also claim from the beginning military men and aristocratic military men. Right that is that is a high social status. And his descendants have continued up to the present day. There have been les in modern wars, right, descendants of his family and serving at a pretty high rate. So that is I think probably a mix of both the weight of legacy and just like yes, some people are naturally inclined to be warriors, right, Like that's just a reality of history, you know. Yeah, like if all of your ancestors served in various militaries, it probably means like you're drawn to that kind of thing inherently. Yeah, like yeah, a good bit of like nature and nurture, like you know, that's just like I said, how this is this is how we form identity. This is what the men in our family do they yes, yes, they are violent and this is this is a consistent thing for the LEAs generations after Hastings and eleven ninety two, his ancestor Lional Lee was a cavalryman in the Third Crusade, which.

Right, wow, as they know it. That like they formed modern England. Yes, yes, that's wow, that's quite and also claim from the beginning military men and aristocratic military men. Right that is that is a high social status. And his descendants have continued up to the present day. There have been les in modern wars, right, descendants of his family and serving at a pretty high rate. So that is I think probably a mix of both the weight of legacy and just like yes, some people are naturally inclined to be warriors, right, Like that's just a reality of history, you know. Yeah, like if all of your ancestors served in various militaries, it probably means like you're drawn to that kind of thing inherently. Yeah, like yeah, a good bit of like nature and nurture, like you know, that's just like I said, how this is this is how we form identity. This is what the men in our family do they yes, yes, they are violent and this is this is a consistent thing for the LEAs generations after Hastings and eleven ninety two, his ancestor Lional Lee was a cavalryman in the Third Crusade, which.

Sh ended well, I think right.

Sh ended well, I think right.

One of the things about the Lee is that, firstly, who picked the Norman side is like the best of them at deciding what side.

One of the things about the Lee is that, firstly, who picked the Norman side is like the best of them at deciding what side.

They're pretty much yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe two maybe two.

They're pretty much yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe two maybe two.

Well, well we'll talk about it the other world. Yeah.

Well, well we'll talk about it the other world. Yeah.

OK.

OK.

Centuries of service though to the crown and expanding wealth eventually kind of culminates in Sir Henry Lee. And he is a Knight of the Garter under Queen Elizabeth. But he's also a young son, so he's not going to inherit any of the family money. If you know anything about the colonization of the Americas, a lot of it was done by like second third fourth, a lot of like the leadership right would have been these these second third, fourth, fifth whatever sons of wealthy families who like, I'm not going to get anything unless I go take part in this. Right, my family name can secure me a position, but like, I'm not going to.

Centuries of service though to the crown and expanding wealth eventually kind of culminates in Sir Henry Lee. And he is a Knight of the Garter under Queen Elizabeth. But he's also a young son, so he's not going to inherit any of the family money. If you know anything about the colonization of the Americas, a lot of it was done by like second third fourth, a lot of like the leadership right would have been these these second third, fourth, fifth whatever sons of wealthy families who like, I'm not going to get anything unless I go take part in this. Right, my family name can secure me a position, but like, I'm not going to.

Inherit, you know.

Inherit, you know.

Yeah, And that's what Sir Henry Lee does, and that's why he winds up moving to America to be the Colonial Secretary of the Virginia Colony under Governor William Berkeley.

Yeah, And that's what Sir Henry Lee does, and that's why he winds up moving to America to be the Colonial Secretary of the Virginia Colony under Governor William Berkeley.

One of my.

One of my.

Sources for this is the very dishonestly named memoir of Robert E. Lee, which is like it's build as his autobiography that he never finished, so like other people put it together based on interviews and notes, it's a biography. It's a very cloying positive biography. But they call it a memoir, which should let you know how reputable it is. But it's interesting how it describes some things. And this is how it describes Sir Henry Lee, the first Americanly he was possessed of a handsome person, fine talents, and popular manners, and by these qualities was enabled to secure influence over the colonists. Now, when I say influence, what that means is like the Virginia Colony is a corporate monopoly, right, it is a corporation, and it is it is a dangerous thing, like going there, you don't have a high odds of surviving. About sixty five percent of immigrants to the colony in the period that he came over died soon after moving there, So this is a dangerous gig.

Sources for this is the very dishonestly named memoir of Robert E. Lee, which is like it's build as his autobiography that he never finished, so like other people put it together based on interviews and notes, it's a biography. It's a very cloying positive biography. But they call it a memoir, which should let you know how reputable it is. But it's interesting how it describes some things. And this is how it describes Sir Henry Lee, the first Americanly he was possessed of a handsome person, fine talents, and popular manners, and by these qualities was enabled to secure influence over the colonists. Now, when I say influence, what that means is like the Virginia Colony is a corporate monopoly, right, it is a corporation, and it is it is a dangerous thing, like going there, you don't have a high odds of surviving. About sixty five percent of immigrants to the colony in the period that he came over died soon after moving there, So this is a dangerous gig.

I'd also say too, like you know, to interrupt your real quick is like, yeah, the the like telling of it's it's man, it's just it keeps coming up. But like the telling of even just the founding of America that these it was these like lofty ideas of these like extremely pious people searching for freedom to practice their faith freely. Is like it's like, well, that's one way to tell it, you know.

I'd also say too, like you know, to interrupt your real quick is like, yeah, the the like telling of it's it's man, it's just it keeps coming up. But like the telling of even just the founding of America that these it was these like lofty ideas of these like extremely pious people searching for freedom to practice their faith freely. Is like it's like, well, that's one way to tell it, you know.

Another way to.

Another way to.

Tell it is kind of what was the majority of it, which was like you said, it's like people that ain't gonna get no inheritance, why I'm gonna go try to get some land and we're gonna go make some money. This was a financial move for the vast majority of people that came over here. It was a money move. It wasn't like that's one group of and according to the rest of the the rest of the year, like the colonists coming from from Britain, like the pears Is were weirdos, Like yeah, like y'all are y'all are religious weirdos? Like we are here trying to get this bread.

Tell it is kind of what was the majority of it, which was like you said, it's like people that ain't gonna get no inheritance, why I'm gonna go try to get some land and we're gonna go make some money. This was a financial move for the vast majority of people that came over here. It was a money move. It wasn't like that's one group of and according to the rest of the the rest of the year, like the colonists coming from from Britain, like the pears Is were weirdos, Like yeah, like y'all are y'all are religious weirdos? Like we are here trying to get this bread.

You know, it's a fight.

You know, it's a fight.

Yeah, yeah, it's like you said.

Yeah, yeah, it's like you said.

Virginia was like yeah, no, We're like we try to get this bread, like that's what we're here for.

Virginia was like yeah, no, We're like we try to get this bread, like that's what we're here for.

Yeah, yeah, And that's what Dicky Lee is there for, right, And he does pretty well in this position. He's able to buy up huge tracts of land, which he works with enslaved people. By his death in sixteen sixty four, he presided over an empire for about sixteen thousand acres in the northern Neck of Virginia. And this Lee is the very first in his family line to serve during a civil war, right, this is the English Civil War. This is Cromwell versus the cavaliers. I think they're known as right and obviously Cromwell wins. Unfortunately, one of we'll be doing him. He's one of the very worst people who ever lived. And kind of how this Lee makes his name very differently from the last Roberty Lee, right, who picks a side right away. This Lee's job, his influence over the colonists, is to stop them from picking a side until it's over. Basically, just like fucking we're sitting there, we are about making money. We don't need to get picking a sign we're not going to help us and tell and then as soon as it becomes clear Cromwell's winning, he's basically like, yeah, we thought you were you were the tits this whole time, bro, congrats, you know. And in return Cromwell didn't kill everybody, which was his his general move right. So when the war ends, Lee had to like he had acquired this land during the English Civil War, but like he hadn't been able to actually like lock it in as a legal purchase because you couldn't do that while the war was going on. So after the war, he and his descendants, in order to basically lock in their inheritance have to make friends, make themselves into the patsies of the most powerful man in the area or powerful family in the area, the Fairfaxes. And they basically do this by becoming their tax collectors.

Yeah, yeah, And that's what Dicky Lee is there for, right, And he does pretty well in this position. He's able to buy up huge tracts of land, which he works with enslaved people. By his death in sixteen sixty four, he presided over an empire for about sixteen thousand acres in the northern Neck of Virginia. And this Lee is the very first in his family line to serve during a civil war, right, this is the English Civil War. This is Cromwell versus the cavaliers. I think they're known as right and obviously Cromwell wins. Unfortunately, one of we'll be doing him. He's one of the very worst people who ever lived. And kind of how this Lee makes his name very differently from the last Roberty Lee, right, who picks a side right away. This Lee's job, his influence over the colonists, is to stop them from picking a side until it's over. Basically, just like fucking we're sitting there, we are about making money. We don't need to get picking a sign we're not going to help us and tell and then as soon as it becomes clear Cromwell's winning, he's basically like, yeah, we thought you were you were the tits this whole time, bro, congrats, you know. And in return Cromwell didn't kill everybody, which was his his general move right. So when the war ends, Lee had to like he had acquired this land during the English Civil War, but like he hadn't been able to actually like lock it in as a legal purchase because you couldn't do that while the war was going on. So after the war, he and his descendants, in order to basically lock in their inheritance have to make friends, make themselves into the patsies of the most powerful man in the area or powerful family in the area, the Fairfaxes. And they basically do this by becoming their tax collectors.

Right. That's the Lees.

Right. That's the Lees.

Are like musclemen for the biggest guy in the Virginia planter aristocracy.

Are like musclemen for the biggest guy in the Virginia planter aristocracy.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah, and you know that they become in the generations after Dickie Lee, they become like one of the biggest families in terms of like wealth in the area. There are about seven thousand tax paying white citizens in the neck. That means men, right, we're saying men, there's more white people than that. By the late seventeen hundreds, and basically none of them owned significant land. Only one percent had more than three hundred acres. So the Lees are part of that one percent. Like most yeah, very rich, and like most generationally wealthy families, the Lees are kind of full of themselves.

Yeah, and you know that they become in the generations after Dickie Lee, they become like one of the biggest families in terms of like wealth in the area. There are about seven thousand tax paying white citizens in the neck. That means men, right, we're saying men, there's more white people than that. By the late seventeen hundreds, and basically none of them owned significant land. Only one percent had more than three hundred acres. So the Lees are part of that one percent. Like most yeah, very rich, and like most generationally wealthy families, the Lees are kind of full of themselves.

You can see some.

You can see some.

Of this from the fact that our Robert's grandfather, his thirty five hundred acre estate is named Lee's Sylvania.

Of this from the fact that our Robert's grandfather, his thirty five hundred acre estate is named Lee's Sylvania.

Oh they love there's a good bit.

Oh they love there's a good bit.

Actually there's seriously, that's like the lamest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, my god, there's that movie, that musical seventeen seventy six. I haven't watched it since I was a kid, but it stars it stars mister Feene from a.

Actually there's seriously, that's like the lamest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, my god, there's that movie, that musical seventeen seventy six. I haven't watched it since I was a kid, but it stars it stars mister Feene from a.

World to My high teacher made us watch it.

World to My high teacher made us watch it.

Yep, ye one of the I'm sure that movie's got some problematic things, but one thing it does get accurate is it it portrays Robert E. Lee's dad in this and he's like naming everything after he has a whole song where like everything is Lee, and that does seem to be the family's thing, right, It's like we are obsessed with ourselves.

Yep, ye one of the I'm sure that movie's got some problematic things, but one thing it does get accurate is it it portrays Robert E. Lee's dad in this and he's like naming everything after he has a whole song where like everything is Lee, and that does seem to be the family's thing, right, It's like we are obsessed with ourselves.

That's hilarious.

That's hilarious.

Yeah, now that said Robert's father, who's going to be Henry Lee is not. He's again kind of like their first ancestor in the Americas. He's not one of the wealthy Lees. Like his family is wealthy, but he's not going to get a bunch of money on his own because of I think just his position, Like he doesn't get you can tell this. He doesn't get sent to England to be educated like his cousins in Stratford. The Stratford Les send their kids to England to be educated, but Robert E. Lee's dad doesn't get that.

Yeah, now that said Robert's father, who's going to be Henry Lee is not. He's again kind of like their first ancestor in the Americas. He's not one of the wealthy Lees. Like his family is wealthy, but he's not going to get a bunch of money on his own because of I think just his position, Like he doesn't get you can tell this. He doesn't get sent to England to be educated like his cousins in Stratford. The Stratford Les send their kids to England to be educated, but Robert E. Lee's dad doesn't get that.

So yeah, we're.

So yeah, we're.

Clearly we're talking like patrilineal, we're talking dad side of the family.

Clearly we're talking like patrilineal, we're talking dad side of the family.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's again, he's wealthy for normal people's standards, but from the standards of the aristocracy, Robert E. Lee's dad on his own isn't going to get the big payday right now. The Lees put a lot of stock in being farmers. That is how they identify and it is important to note that when rich white people in this period talk about being farmers, they are not doing any real far out right no, absolutely not. And one of the major sources for this episode is an excellent biography of Lee by Alan Guelzo, And I'm going to read a quote from that now talking about the degree to which these people were farmers, and it's talking about Lee's family and his cousins. The Lees, Taylo's, and Carters never owned fewer than fifty slaves each across the decades of the eighteenth century. While Robert Carter owned three hundred and forty five slaves, John Taylo won seventy three, and George Turberville sixty eight. Thomas Lee had, at varying times, owned between sixty and one hundred slaves at Stratford and his late ast seventeen eighty two. Eighty three slaves worked for Thomas Lee's successors there, but these grandees were not necessarily prospering on their land. Although Virginians had made early fortunes in the seventeenth century through tobacco, the demand for Indian weed declined throughout the eighteenth century, as had the nutrients in the soil of the Neck that supported it. Few people in England Como played Richard Henry Lee in the seventeen sixties, understood how much labor is required out on the Virginian estate and how pole the produce. Interestingly, the great plantations turned to growing wheat fodder and pork for export to the West Indies, where they could be fed to the slave and animal populations of the sugar islands, whose vastly wealthier owners declined to waste arable sugar lands on growing food. So that is what that is what the Lee family farming goes towards, is to feed slave plantations growing sugar cheaply, right, that is that is where their family money comes from.

So it's again, he's wealthy for normal people's standards, but from the standards of the aristocracy, Robert E. Lee's dad on his own isn't going to get the big payday right now. The Lees put a lot of stock in being farmers. That is how they identify and it is important to note that when rich white people in this period talk about being farmers, they are not doing any real far out right no, absolutely not. And one of the major sources for this episode is an excellent biography of Lee by Alan Guelzo, And I'm going to read a quote from that now talking about the degree to which these people were farmers, and it's talking about Lee's family and his cousins. The Lees, Taylo's, and Carters never owned fewer than fifty slaves each across the decades of the eighteenth century. While Robert Carter owned three hundred and forty five slaves, John Taylo won seventy three, and George Turberville sixty eight. Thomas Lee had, at varying times, owned between sixty and one hundred slaves at Stratford and his late ast seventeen eighty two. Eighty three slaves worked for Thomas Lee's successors there, but these grandees were not necessarily prospering on their land. Although Virginians had made early fortunes in the seventeenth century through tobacco, the demand for Indian weed declined throughout the eighteenth century, as had the nutrients in the soil of the Neck that supported it. Few people in England Como played Richard Henry Lee in the seventeen sixties, understood how much labor is required out on the Virginian estate and how pole the produce. Interestingly, the great plantations turned to growing wheat fodder and pork for export to the West Indies, where they could be fed to the slave and animal populations of the sugar islands, whose vastly wealthier owners declined to waste arable sugar lands on growing food. So that is what that is what the Lee family farming goes towards, is to feed slave plantations growing sugar cheaply, right, that is that is where their family money comes from.

Yeah, So like I.

Yeah, So like I.

Did a quick little Google starts going and make sure I got the numbers right. Yeah, like just to understand like the economy of the time. I feel like, you know, with anything, the further away from us, like timeline wise, the more like Narnia it becomes to us like we don't really understand like one, how recent it was, into like the connections of it. So like you just say, somebody had three hundred and eighty five slaves, like and a slave at the time to purchase a slave was about like one hundred and fifty hundred and sixty dollars, and if you adjust that to like inflation, like you could it could be like like three two hundred dollars a person like that to purchase you know, and obviously you're not paying for the labor, but to have so to have a workforce of three hundred people want to have the land acreage to even if you're putting them in slave shacks, you stuf to house them, they're still in a slave shack. Yeah, and they're still functioning on your land like it is a It is a lot of money, and you're generating a lot of wealth.

Did a quick little Google starts going and make sure I got the numbers right. Yeah, like just to understand like the economy of the time. I feel like, you know, with anything, the further away from us, like timeline wise, the more like Narnia it becomes to us like we don't really understand like one, how recent it was, into like the connections of it. So like you just say, somebody had three hundred and eighty five slaves, like and a slave at the time to purchase a slave was about like one hundred and fifty hundred and sixty dollars, and if you adjust that to like inflation, like you could it could be like like three two hundred dollars a person like that to purchase you know, and obviously you're not paying for the labor, but to have so to have a workforce of three hundred people want to have the land acreage to even if you're putting them in slave shacks, you stuf to house them, they're still in a slave shack. Yeah, and they're still functioning on your land like it is a It is a lot of money, and you're generating a lot of wealth.

And like you.

And like you.

Said, it's like for for any of their lifestyle to exist, which I'm fast forwarding but like to get to the lost costs shit, but like all of the whole Southern gentlemen Southern gentail shit, clearly means they're not working, like you know what I'm saying, And your whole lifestyle only works if you got enough money to support this type of labor, to do the labor that generates the money to live the lifestyle you live. Yeah.

Said, it's like for for any of their lifestyle to exist, which I'm fast forwarding but like to get to the lost costs shit, but like all of the whole Southern gentlemen Southern gentail shit, clearly means they're not working, like you know what I'm saying, And your whole lifestyle only works if you got enough money to support this type of labor, to do the labor that generates the money to live the lifestyle you live. Yeah.

And I also I also want to note something, which is that like you talk about like it's cost about like thirty five hundred bucks apiece something like that for each of these enslaved people, even that kind of understates how expensive this isn't how rare it is, right, because not just like that makes it seem like, well, a middle class person might be able to have like slaves working their land, which wasn't really the case often because like most people just don't have money. People are going to have a whiskey rebellion right after the US is independent, And it's part of the whisky rebellion is that like whiskey is currency because people just don't have money, you know, like we're poor White people do not actually have money in this period. Yeah, so like the people who have slaves are so far above the norm.

And I also I also want to note something, which is that like you talk about like it's cost about like thirty five hundred bucks apiece something like that for each of these enslaved people, even that kind of understates how expensive this isn't how rare it is, right, because not just like that makes it seem like, well, a middle class person might be able to have like slaves working their land, which wasn't really the case often because like most people just don't have money. People are going to have a whiskey rebellion right after the US is independent, And it's part of the whisky rebellion is that like whiskey is currency because people just don't have money, you know, like we're poor White people do not actually have money in this period. Yeah, so like the people who have slaves are so far above the norm.

Yeah, because like you said, like there isn't like this is pre industrial revolution, Like there's no you don't go to the office to work and you get a paycheck. No, you grow your food right and you take care of your family and you hopefully chop down some timber and sell it at the corner. But there's no jobs for you to be able, like you said, to have a middle class thing, like I'll just save up one hundred and sixty, I'll save up three k. It take like two months. Yeah, no, you have to have a job for that, like there is no jobs.

Yeah, because like you said, like there isn't like this is pre industrial revolution, Like there's no you don't go to the office to work and you get a paycheck. No, you grow your food right and you take care of your family and you hopefully chop down some timber and sell it at the corner. But there's no jobs for you to be able, like you said, to have a middle class thing, like I'll just save up one hundred and sixty, I'll save up three k. It take like two months. Yeah, no, you have to have a job for that, like there is no jobs.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

And now and again we also state like these people are rich, but rich means a different thing. Because most of them are really bad at running these plantations, especially after a couple of generations. So they're rich in land enrich in the number of enslaved people they have, but they are also generally cash poor. Part of keeping up socially in the culture of rich plantation owners is going horribly into debt. And this is a holdover. This is something they inherit from the English aristocracy.

And now and again we also state like these people are rich, but rich means a different thing. Because most of them are really bad at running these plantations, especially after a couple of generations. So they're rich in land enrich in the number of enslaved people they have, but they are also generally cash poor. Part of keeping up socially in the culture of rich plantation owners is going horribly into debt. And this is a holdover. This is something they inherit from the English aristocracy.

Right.

Right.

You can't get be given money as an aristocrat, that's dishonorable. But you can take loans often from other aristocrats and the like. And this is what all of these big families, including the Leaves, would do to maintain these big, palatial, beautiful manners that are such a part of this imagined like southern heritage. All of this is taken on with debt. Right, this is like such a thing. There's this Anglican parson, Jonathan Boucher, who lives in the Neck for a while and preaches there, and he later said of his time there, I can hardly remember a time when I did not owe sums larger than my credit might seem worth. All I have to offer and vindication of it is that determined as always to raise myself in the world. I had not the patience to wait for the slow savings of a humble station, and I fancied I could get into a hire only by being taken notice of by people of condition, which was not to be done without my making a certain appearance.

You can't get be given money as an aristocrat, that's dishonorable. But you can take loans often from other aristocrats and the like. And this is what all of these big families, including the Leaves, would do to maintain these big, palatial, beautiful manners that are such a part of this imagined like southern heritage. All of this is taken on with debt. Right, this is like such a thing. There's this Anglican parson, Jonathan Boucher, who lives in the Neck for a while and preaches there, and he later said of his time there, I can hardly remember a time when I did not owe sums larger than my credit might seem worth. All I have to offer and vindication of it is that determined as always to raise myself in the world. I had not the patience to wait for the slow savings of a humble station, and I fancied I could get into a hire only by being taken notice of by people of condition, which was not to be done without my making a certain appearance.

So all of these.

So all of these.

People, no matter how wealthy they are on paper, most of them are like desperately in debt. And they're in debt purely because they're trying to keep up with each other. They're trying to like it's all about image. Like the degree to which this is shallow and irresponsible and always based on a house of cars words is not discussed enough when we talk about the self exactly.

People, no matter how wealthy they are on paper, most of them are like desperately in debt. And they're in debt purely because they're trying to keep up with each other. They're trying to like it's all about image. Like the degree to which this is shallow and irresponsible and always based on a house of cars words is not discussed enough when we talk about the self exactly.

Yeah, yeah, that that and that and that legacy of like, so let's take our favorite person, Elon if he gets Yeah, this guy gets a contract from NASA to be like, hey, we want to build want you to build our next four spaceships, and it's like okay, dope, Uh, it's gonna cost me seven billion dollars to build these ships. He doesn't just go to the bank and swipe his card like he he doesn't have seven billion dollars. He goes to someone else and says, hey, I got this po I got this purchase order for these things, and I'm gonna make this much money. Will you give me the money.

Yeah, yeah, that that and that and that legacy of like, so let's take our favorite person, Elon if he gets Yeah, this guy gets a contract from NASA to be like, hey, we want to build want you to build our next four spaceships, and it's like okay, dope, Uh, it's gonna cost me seven billion dollars to build these ships. He doesn't just go to the bank and swipe his card like he he doesn't have seven billion dollars. He goes to someone else and says, hey, I got this po I got this purchase order for these things, and I'm gonna make this much money. Will you give me the money.

To make this?

To make this?

But he ain't got it. Like I can't stress this enough. They don't have the money.

But he ain't got it. Like I can't stress this enough. They don't have the money.

Yeah, no, I it's it's important to note that. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I it's it's important to note that. Yeah.

So this is all going to be important also for just understanding what happens to rob its father and how it influences the man he's going to become. And Robert E. Lee's daddy was Richard Henry Lee the third. He graduates from law school in seventeen seventy three, but as you can guess from the time, he's kind of diverted from serving as a lawyer by the outbreak of what will become the American Revolution. Henry is a hot headed young man, and, like his ancestor, insecure about being born without the expectation of a great inheritance. He saw in war with England an opportunity to make himself into a great man, like his ancestor had done after the Norman Conquest. Hey, everybody, Robert here, quick correction. I misidentified in the original edit of this Richard Henry Lee as Robert E. Lee's father. Henry Lee the third was Roberty Lee's father. Sorry, that was something I flagged during editing and then forgot to tell to the editor, So this one's all on me anyway.

So this is all going to be important also for just understanding what happens to rob its father and how it influences the man he's going to become. And Robert E. Lee's daddy was Richard Henry Lee the third. He graduates from law school in seventeen seventy three, but as you can guess from the time, he's kind of diverted from serving as a lawyer by the outbreak of what will become the American Revolution. Henry is a hot headed young man, and, like his ancestor, insecure about being born without the expectation of a great inheritance. He saw in war with England an opportunity to make himself into a great man, like his ancestor had done after the Norman Conquest. Hey, everybody, Robert here, quick correction. I misidentified in the original edit of this Richard Henry Lee as Robert E. Lee's father. Henry Lee the third was Roberty Lee's father. Sorry, that was something I flagged during editing and then forgot to tell to the editor, So this one's all on me anyway.

Robert E.

Robert E.

Lee's dad was Henry Lee the third, and to his credit, Richard Henry Lee is not just talk. He joins the army. He becomes a captain in the dragoons, which is like a mountain infantryman, and is an excellent soldier. That is one thing you have to give the man. The LEAs are all as foot soldiers, as grunts. Really, even Robert E. Lee is a really good, like lower level officer. Like when we talk about him being incompetent, it's as a commanding general. But like, they are all good at normal soldierly jobs. And Henry shows his skill particularly as a scout. He is a small unit commander. He's basically an early Special Forces guy. Right, He's leading these yeah yeah, his dad yeah, okay, yeah. He's leading these small units of scouts, often doing ambushes and the like on small British units supply depots. And he kind of gets a reputation for this almost suicidal disregard for his own safety. He earns the attention of George Washington after he takes a ten man unit out and there they are ambushed by two hundred British cavalry and somehow fight off the ambush. Yeah, he's good at he's good at fighting, right, and Washington is kind of like, well, shit, this guy needs to be in myanner's circle. Henry Lee earns the nickname Lighthorse Harry, and in seventeen seventy nine he achieves one of his greatest successes, marching a small unit of men thirty miles in the driving rain to attack a much larger British garrison. Armed only with bayonets, they secure the element of surprise and take one hundred and fifty eight men prisoners. Congress minted him a special Gold Medal. This is an extremely rare decoration for the period. There's like seven of them given during the war. And then he sent South to fight alongside Nathaniel Green and he basically his unit is like the eyes of the Southern Revolutionary Army. Right, the Southern colonies had been occupied by British forces in Green and Lee carried out a successful campaign to retake them. Lighthorse Harry played a crucial role here cutting off supply lines, raiding depots, and forward bases. Now, he's a good soldier, but he is not a good person. He is not overly concerned with the niceties of wartime ethics. From an article in the Gettysburg Compiler quote. During the war, he was known for his brutal tactics. In seventeen seventy eight, he assisted General Anthony Wayne in capturing a fort at Stony Point, New York, where he caught three deserters, one of which he ordered to be hanged and decapitated. He then sent the deserters decapitated head to Washington. He also interrogated a loyalist prisoner in North Carolina by pressing a red hot shovel to his feet to get information out of him. So this guy kills people. He puts heads on on like pikes and shit, he's torturing prisoners. He's not a nice man. Dude's aged with yes, yes today. So despite these war crimes, Lee ends the war as one of the USA's first great military heroes. On the strength of this, He's elected to the Continental Congress in seventeen eighty five, and he partakes in Virginia's Constitutional Convention in seventeen eighty seven, where he plays a crucial role in talking his neighbors in Virginia into ratifying the constitution.

Lee's dad was Henry Lee the third, and to his credit, Richard Henry Lee is not just talk. He joins the army. He becomes a captain in the dragoons, which is like a mountain infantryman, and is an excellent soldier. That is one thing you have to give the man. The LEAs are all as foot soldiers, as grunts. Really, even Robert E. Lee is a really good, like lower level officer. Like when we talk about him being incompetent, it's as a commanding general. But like, they are all good at normal soldierly jobs. And Henry shows his skill particularly as a scout. He is a small unit commander. He's basically an early Special Forces guy. Right, He's leading these yeah yeah, his dad yeah, okay, yeah. He's leading these small units of scouts, often doing ambushes and the like on small British units supply depots. And he kind of gets a reputation for this almost suicidal disregard for his own safety. He earns the attention of George Washington after he takes a ten man unit out and there they are ambushed by two hundred British cavalry and somehow fight off the ambush. Yeah, he's good at he's good at fighting, right, and Washington is kind of like, well, shit, this guy needs to be in myanner's circle. Henry Lee earns the nickname Lighthorse Harry, and in seventeen seventy nine he achieves one of his greatest successes, marching a small unit of men thirty miles in the driving rain to attack a much larger British garrison. Armed only with bayonets, they secure the element of surprise and take one hundred and fifty eight men prisoners. Congress minted him a special Gold Medal. This is an extremely rare decoration for the period. There's like seven of them given during the war. And then he sent South to fight alongside Nathaniel Green and he basically his unit is like the eyes of the Southern Revolutionary Army. Right, the Southern colonies had been occupied by British forces in Green and Lee carried out a successful campaign to retake them. Lighthorse Harry played a crucial role here cutting off supply lines, raiding depots, and forward bases. Now, he's a good soldier, but he is not a good person. He is not overly concerned with the niceties of wartime ethics. From an article in the Gettysburg Compiler quote. During the war, he was known for his brutal tactics. In seventeen seventy eight, he assisted General Anthony Wayne in capturing a fort at Stony Point, New York, where he caught three deserters, one of which he ordered to be hanged and decapitated. He then sent the deserters decapitated head to Washington. He also interrogated a loyalist prisoner in North Carolina by pressing a red hot shovel to his feet to get information out of him. So this guy kills people. He puts heads on on like pikes and shit, he's torturing prisoners. He's not a nice man. Dude's aged with yes, yes today. So despite these war crimes, Lee ends the war as one of the USA's first great military heroes. On the strength of this, He's elected to the Continental Congress in seventeen eighty five, and he partakes in Virginia's Constitutional Convention in seventeen eighty seven, where he plays a crucial role in talking his neighbors in Virginia into ratifying the constitution.

He becomes governor.

He becomes governor.

I think it's a good thing to stop. And you said he became governor. Yes, you said, the guy that like decapitated.

I think it's a good thing to stop. And you said he became governor. Yes, you said, the guy that like decapitated.

Yeah, oh he loves he loves that shit.

Yeah, oh he loves he loves that shit.

Yeah, and then sent heads in a bag was a part of the constitutional convintion.

Yeah, and then sent heads in a bag was a part of the constitutional convintion.

Oh yeah, governor, Like, yeah, the.

Oh yeah, governor, Like, yeah, the.

Old baghead, old old baghead, right, I like you better put him on there, because you don't want to piss him off.

Old baghead, old old baghead, right, I like you better put him on there, because you don't want to piss him off.

You know, who doesn't cut the heads off of prisoners and stick them on pikes? Oh?

You know, who doesn't cut the heads off of prisoners and stick them on pikes? Oh?

Man, I mean I so do hope that.

Man, I mean I so do hope that.

Yeah, I hope our sponsors don't do that, although if they do, maybe they maybe those prisoners had it coming, you know, you know, if they do, I just want them. If they do, I just want you to know that we had politics. Love everything, y'all.

Yeah, I hope our sponsors don't do that, although if they do, maybe they maybe those prisoners had it coming, you know, you know, if they do, I just want them. If they do, I just want you to know that we had politics. Love everything, y'all.

Sell.

Sell.

We believe in everything you do.

We believe in everything you do.

Yeah, yeah, great, this is good.

Yeah, yeah, great, this is good.

And we're back.

And we're back.

So that's a pretty full resume for Lighthorse Harry. But we're just actually getting started on this guy. Because after the war ends, his life veers very quickly from like military hero to hilarious failure. And this is because he's one of these guys. You get these not uncommonly that are like they're great in war, they're really good soldiers at least in terms of their effectiveness in combat, but outside of war, they just are completely useless. Now, there were always some signs of the man's weaknesses. Obviously he took too many risks. He actually that big raid he carried out that he won an award for he got court martialed for it too, because some people in his command were like, yeah, it worked, but he risked a bunch of men's lives on what shouldn't have worked, Like this was we shouldn't We should not award people for being this reckless. In seventeen eighty two, Lee resigns his commission in the Continental Army because he's angry that he's unappreciated. And again, this man got a gold medal awarded to seven dudes total in the entire war that they made he custom made gold medal. He's not really unappreciated. I think what it is reading between the lines, he's frustrated that he's not George Washington like he loves Washington. They're close buddies, and like Washington's his patron kind of you get the feeling he's like, why does Washington get to be the father of the country and not me?

So that's a pretty full resume for Lighthorse Harry. But we're just actually getting started on this guy. Because after the war ends, his life veers very quickly from like military hero to hilarious failure. And this is because he's one of these guys. You get these not uncommonly that are like they're great in war, they're really good soldiers at least in terms of their effectiveness in combat, but outside of war, they just are completely useless. Now, there were always some signs of the man's weaknesses. Obviously he took too many risks. He actually that big raid he carried out that he won an award for he got court martialed for it too, because some people in his command were like, yeah, it worked, but he risked a bunch of men's lives on what shouldn't have worked, Like this was we shouldn't We should not award people for being this reckless. In seventeen eighty two, Lee resigns his commission in the Continental Army because he's angry that he's unappreciated. And again, this man got a gold medal awarded to seven dudes total in the entire war that they made he custom made gold medal. He's not really unappreciated. I think what it is reading between the lines, he's frustrated that he's not George Washington like he loves Washington. They're close buddies, and like Washington's his patron kind of you get the feeling he's like, why does Washington get to be the father of the country and not me?

I was a really good soldier, y'all? Yeah, exactly, shit man, And you get teeth.

I was a really good soldier, y'all? Yeah, exactly, shit man, And you get teeth.

Yeah, I think this insecurity, this is going to drive the Washington insecurity is going to drive Roberty Lee iseth No, you are no.

Yeah, I think this insecurity, this is going to drive the Washington insecurity is going to drive Roberty Lee iseth No, you are no.

They sure weren't, no c.

They sure weren't, no c.

But this insecurity is going to drive Henry Lee as well. So Washington, for his part, consideredly a reliable officer and had an opportunity to make him feel appreciated and also betray the spirit of the revolution. At the same time, in seventeen ninety four, a bunch of Pennsylvania farmers started protesting against attacks on whiskey, which was their primary form of currency, despite the fact that their grievances absolutely mirrored the ones that had sparked the revolution. Washington, now that he's in charge of a country, sends the army in to crack down this is the Whiskey rebellion, and Henry Lee is the guy who's going to command that army. Now, well, actual rebellion itself had a few clashes and a small number of deaths. Harry's not involved in that. By the time he gets there with the army, he's basically there to swing the nation's newly tombescent dick around until everybody goes home. You know, he scares them with an army.

But this insecurity is going to drive Henry Lee as well. So Washington, for his part, consideredly a reliable officer and had an opportunity to make him feel appreciated and also betray the spirit of the revolution. At the same time, in seventeen ninety four, a bunch of Pennsylvania farmers started protesting against attacks on whiskey, which was their primary form of currency, despite the fact that their grievances absolutely mirrored the ones that had sparked the revolution. Washington, now that he's in charge of a country, sends the army in to crack down this is the Whiskey rebellion, and Henry Lee is the guy who's going to command that army. Now, well, actual rebellion itself had a few clashes and a small number of deaths. Harry's not involved in that. By the time he gets there with the army, he's basically there to swing the nation's newly tombescent dick around until everybody goes home. You know, he scares them with an army.

Right.

Right.

That is the end of his military career. And now that he had earned a position of what he saw would be everlasting respect and fame in the heart of the new nation, he sat down to accomplish the true goal of any ambitious man, making a bunch of fucking money. Now, unfortunately he's terrible at this. He knows nothing of farming, he knows nothing of business, so his attempts to get rich to evolve into a series of incompetent get rich quick schemes. These seem to have been inspired in part by the advice of George Washington. In letters, Washington warned Henry that investments in such hazardous and perishable articles as negroes, stock, and chattels were prone to be swept off by innumerable disasters. Thus, an enterprising man with very little money should invest in the rich backlands in the new settlements and wait patiently for them to appreciate. So that's yeah, pretty bad. Yeah, don't buy Washington.

That is the end of his military career. And now that he had earned a position of what he saw would be everlasting respect and fame in the heart of the new nation, he sat down to accomplish the true goal of any ambitious man, making a bunch of fucking money. Now, unfortunately he's terrible at this. He knows nothing of farming, he knows nothing of business, so his attempts to get rich to evolve into a series of incompetent get rich quick schemes. These seem to have been inspired in part by the advice of George Washington. In letters, Washington warned Henry that investments in such hazardous and perishable articles as negroes, stock, and chattels were prone to be swept off by innumerable disasters. Thus, an enterprising man with very little money should invest in the rich backlands in the new settlements and wait patiently for them to appreciate. So that's yeah, pretty bad. Yeah, don't buy Washington.

Yeah, don't buyo slaves man. It's gonna go out of style.

Yeah, don't buyo slaves man. It's gonna go out of style.

Man, it's just too much work homeie like shy they died, bro, It's like, yeah, gold rush like millionaires word as shovel salesman, like like you know, you got you gotta think a little. You know what I'm saying, You're going to be out here pan for gold? Well, they got to use pans, So why don't you sell them to pans?

Man, it's just too much work homeie like shy they died, bro, It's like, yeah, gold rush like millionaires word as shovel salesman, like like you know, you got you gotta think a little. You know what I'm saying, You're going to be out here pan for gold? Well, they got to use pans, So why don't you sell them to pans?

Yeah? Damn.

Yeah? Damn.

And that is we see it between Henry and George Washington. We see the difference between a smart bad man and a dumb badman.

And that is we see it between Henry and George Washington. We see the difference between a smart bad man and a dumb badman.

Yes, right, George Washington is a smart bad man.

Yes, right, George Washington is a smart bad man.

He's good in making money like Henry Lee is a dumb bad man, and he is. He tries to follow this advice, but he is dog shit at picking real estate, and rather than slow sober investments, he approached his finances the same way he approached war, with a series of risky gambles. Here's the Gettysburg compiler. One of these schemes was to build a canal in Great Falls, Virginia, that would link the United States to western Lands on the other side of the Alleghenies. He bought five hundred acres around Great Falls that he hoped would make into a city named Matildaville, named after his first wife and second cousin, Matilda Lee, who died in seventeen ninety. Neither the city nor the canal came to fruition. He tried to get out of debt by borrowing more money and buying more land, but he only ended up digging himself deeper. He started selling property he did not even own, and he put up chains on the door of his house to keep creditors out. He became very mobile in the early years of the eighteen hundreds, hardly staying at home in order to keep from paying his debts.

He's good in making money like Henry Lee is a dumb bad man, and he is. He tries to follow this advice, but he is dog shit at picking real estate, and rather than slow sober investments, he approached his finances the same way he approached war, with a series of risky gambles. Here's the Gettysburg compiler. One of these schemes was to build a canal in Great Falls, Virginia, that would link the United States to western Lands on the other side of the Alleghenies. He bought five hundred acres around Great Falls that he hoped would make into a city named Matildaville, named after his first wife and second cousin, Matilda Lee, who died in seventeen ninety. Neither the city nor the canal came to fruition. He tried to get out of debt by borrowing more money and buying more land, but he only ended up digging himself deeper. He started selling property he did not even own, and he put up chains on the door of his house to keep creditors out. He became very mobile in the early years of the eighteen hundreds, hardly staying at home in order to keep from paying his debts.

He is.

He is.

Wretchet.

Wretchet.

He is such a redneck.

He is such a redneck.

Like, first off, marrying your second cousin and t a town after her, like yeah, hiding from bill collectors.

Like, first off, marrying your second cousin and t a town after her, like yeah, hiding from bill collectors.

Don't answer the phone, Yeah, don't answer it a do don't answer the phone as day'd look, they don't get they money? I get it on to dig Yeah, get tea next Tuesday. And this was Auntie look as a Southerner. I'm not proud of this heritage, but this is definitely our heritage from.

Don't answer the phone, Yeah, don't answer it a do don't answer the phone as day'd look, they don't get they money? I get it on to dig Yeah, get tea next Tuesday. And this was Auntie look as a Southerner. I'm not proud of this heritage, but this is definitely our heritage from.

The bill collectors selling things you don't really own. Yeah, that.

The bill collectors selling things you don't really own. Yeah, that.

Scance.

Scance.

Yes, I was like, okay, wait, of all the things you said, I'm like, yeah, that's the really shit.

Yes, I was like, okay, wait, of all the things you said, I'm like, yeah, that's the really shit.

Yeah, as it tells you're weird though, but that's real.

Yeah, as it tells you're weird though, but that's real.

As a as a child who grew up on a farm in Oklahoma that I knew like forty of those guys.

As a as a child who grew up on a farm in Oklahoma that I knew like forty of those guys.

Listen, let me tell you some all my friends in elementary school have bad credit because the electric bill was in.

Listen, let me tell you some all my friends in elementary school have bad credit because the electric bill was in.

Our name because they just you know, Mama put it, put the gas bill in the old name.

Our name because they just you know, Mama put it, put the gas bill in the old name.

And this because we just try to like, look that they won't give me no more powers.

And this because we just try to like, look that they won't give me no more powers.

So yeah, yeah.

So yeah, yeah.

Uh So, despite owning on papers somewhere around a million acres at the height of his investments, which is an enormous that's bigger than multiple countries today, Henry Lee never realized any return on his investments. The Townsend canals speculated on never came to pass, and his creditors came calling long before he could flip them. Twenty years down the line, as Washington had advised his first wife, Matilda died midway through his long road to going broke. He'd already sold off most of her inheritance a plantation in Stratford to pay off his own debts. Showing a surprising degree of fortitude. While she was dying, Matilda signed a trust with two of her cousins as executive executors, so the remainder of her inherited property would pass on to her sons with Henry when they.