Beating The Book: Alan "Dink" Denkenson

Published May 15, 2020, 11:42 AM

A story as unique as they come, professional sports bettor Alan "Dink" Denkenson joins Gill Alexander to share his journey of how he became the bettor he is today. (May 15, 2020)

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Check it down, man, now down. Then it's the Meeting the Book Podcast, Bill, alex Brander. I hope you're saying, saved during this pandemic. Another sports betting profile during this strange time in our lives. Again, Allan Boston has been kind enough to join us to do this with us, Rufus Peabody Captain Jack Andrews, Bob Stole has sat with us to just talk about their evolution as people, but specifically for our purposes as sports bettors. Each story as fascinating as the previous one. Today, UH fits that Bill. This is a gentleman who I have never met before. I talked to him this past week icon in the sports betting world. He was one of the subjects, of course, UH profiled and the best of it that you may recall from Allen Boston was also in that one. This is Alan dink Dnkinson, a story unlike any other. Everybody's got their own. His as unique as they come. Real kind of him to sit down and discuss. Hopefully you can draw some inspiration from it. Dank on the Beating the Book Podcast, Enjoy it's a numbers game with your host Jil Alexander. You want those mutios too believe in analytics. It is a numbers game right here at Visa Megas. That's in information network Serious x M Channel two four, Visa dot Com, the Visa at Fubo Slaying game, plus the sports betting network. As I mentioned Gil Alexander live from San Francisco. During this pandemic, I have tried to, for lack of a better comparison, transition into sort of Roy Firestone Bob cost this mode and profile some bettors, guys that we otherwise might have a tough time getting in and doing them justice with enough time when we have a standard sports schedule. Rufus Peabody has been kind enough to join us. Uh. Captain Jack Bob Stole, Dr Bob Alan Boston of course kicked it off force today. UM, I'm real thrilled to have this guy on. I have not had the opportunity ever to have spoken to him prior to this. He cut his teeth back in the day when he was a kid betting horses in New York. Became a bookmaker New York, New Jersey, pretty sizeable bookmaker. Didn't go so well. UH in the end, got busted. UH spent some time in jail, came to the dark side after that, the dark side meaning the betting side. Maybe not the dark side, maybe that's a good side. Uh and uh. It has been a renowned sports better for many many years, primarily on the sport of hockey, and has been the subject really of a couple of films. One Bruce Willis playing a character that was based on him in TeVeS Lay the favorite. Then, of course many of you familiar with the best of it from Alan Ding Dinkinson. Good morning to you, sir, Thanks for doing this, thanks for having me go um, apologize for the long intro. Can I go through the first Let me just start here with two perfunctory questions that I did not reflect on very uh, very deeply. But one the last name is Dinkinson. The nickname is dink Was that just somebody mispronouncing it? At some point my sixth grade teacher was calling me Dinkinson. And then uh, I was caught by a fellow student in my class doing my math homework during class. Uh. He came up to the teacher and said, Dinky is doing his math homework and sometimes a dinky name has stuck for fifty five years since that day, and there it is should I should I address you as Dinky? Would that be okay? Alan? Seems a little either w are you having it all? You really? So I'll go there. Uh. And the other thing is and please forgive me because you could I'm I'm risking you walking off the set here. But I'll tell you a little story. Me and my buddy E, who is a very successful professional better we were walking out of a Vegas Golden Knights Tampa Bay Lightning game in the Nights first season, and you may recall this. It was the game where the Nights scored with seconds left to win it. It was pretty dramatic ending. I think the Lightning had come back to tie it up, and then Golden Knights went in the second And as we're walking out of the state, actually as we got into park MGM, which I think at the time was still the Monte Carlo, my buddy and I don't know why we brought you up, but we started to have a conversation about you, and then like just apparition, you appeared. And the reason that we saw you from afar is obviously because of your hair. Um. This is the first thing that people see those are watching at Visa Dot com and the visa app. Has this always been a signature of yours? Um, this is my hair, this is your hair, this is what it is. Yeah, I guess that's kind of because my dad plus this. They are a pretty young age, so um, it's been one of those things that, yeah, I'm known for. Not my favorite thing to be known for, but it's okay, let's just put it this way. We wouldn't have spotted somebody else from far just his signature of yours. It's very icono. Remember I remember that game I was with inside the pylons In that game, legend that time back to his car with part by parts. Who are who are you with? I'm sorry I missed it inside the pylons. He's a pretty famous Twitter horse player. Okay, inside the pylons I did. I'm sorry I didn't hear. All right, I promise you. I think the question the questions get better from here on out, I promise you. Let's start at the beginning. I mentioned that you, uh, you grew up betting horses in New York. Where did you grow up specifically, and what was your first experience with the glory that is wagering? There? I'm my first thirty seven years was spent in various places in Queens. UH. I grew up my first ten years in Richmond Hill, moved to South Jamaica, which was a co op on the old South Jamaica race track. UM. At fifteen, I was playing a lot of basketball and two of the older kids took me to Roosevelt Raceway and that they changed my life. So two kids, I have lost, two guys. I've lest touch with Steve Rosenblatt and Barry Lieberman. I wonder if there's still listening to sports talk radio UH. And that I loved it there and I fell in love with the action. I didn't have any money, but I think that helped me because I was pretty regularly going to the tracks since I was sixteen, without a bank roll until I got one, and by that time I kind of learned enough about handicapping to be making a profit. While I was going to college mostly in the night tracks. I was a harness track New York, and then I segue to day tracks kind of when that game fizzled. But I was there the opening day at the meadow Lands. I think I went to Roosevelt every every day for meat except two. It was it was just my life was going to school during the day, going to college, not doing any work outside of the classroom, going to classes, playing poker in the cafeteria, and then going to Roosevelt Raceway. It sounds like a lovely childhood to me. Your favorite it was when I cut my teeth in when I was seventeen, you know, to be a beginning of my gambling career was all horses. I met a man after track who was a small bookmaker, and he told me to gather up my friends and have them bet with him, and he'd give me of the losses back well the quarter sheet. Uh. After two years of doing okay, I realized maybe I should do this myself and the lesson. So I was booking for a little while while I still lived with my parents and Forest Hills. Okay. So I teased at the top that eventually you got busted. I would imagine you got big enough. What Maybe it didn't have anything to do with you being a big enough bookmaker. Maybe it happened, Maybe it had to do with a specific client. How did you ultimately run the foul of the law with that? Um I grew I started booking, you know what, we considered squares. Then I gradually got a sheet of wise guys. I booked the Kosher's, I booked the computers book MCTEA Appleman, I booked Alan Boston in his formative years. UM and that turned me into a broke bookmaker because I wasn't able to handle wise guys. For a while, I had to borrow some money, regrouped, learned how to be a good bookmaker, grew my strategy. Was never turned down a customer who paid. You know, it was hard for a while because I had like eight wise guys and I never got buy backs in those games at that time. And to think about what year that was, not about seventy seven, those games started winning extremely regularly. Uh So that put me in a hole. I got out of the hole. I turned my business around. I ended up having hundred fifty customers with that regularly. There was always two way action. I opened at four o'clock Eastern and my first two customers were Mickey Appleman. Mickey Appleman and Alan Boston, and they would fire the whole college basketball board a lot of times against each other at the same number. I ev aided. I didn't want a book that high. I wasn't the biggest bookmaker in the world, but I took I took NBA called NBA Totals, which weren't very popular back then. Um, and there was a lot of two way business from Middler's versus sharps, and that helped me as well get a bank roll. UM, I would an agent would give me a customer, and I got one from Detroit. No idea who he was only talked to him one or two times as a person. He was just a name and a better who kind of was I guess I could see that he was betting the sharp sides late, so I guess he was laying off his business, which I never cared to discuss. It just was just a customer and he was betting the right sides very late, so he really didn't have an advantage betting bad numbers. Uh. It turned out he was involved with Isaiah Thomas and running a dice game, and yes, I was aware of him, and they tapped his phones and I was one of his bookmakers, and they assumed I worked for him as opposed to just have a customer book maker relationship with him. Got arrested. Took four years for the case to get prosecuted. I hired a very good sentencing lawyer, Alan Ellis, and he probably saved me from going to real jail. That I got into a work released jail, so I worked at a friend's deli for three hundred days straight, work every day, so I was never really in jail during the daytime. It was kind of sleep over jail, so that it wasn't that bad. You know. I drove my car to jail, and I drove my car at work, and then I drove my car back. I took an extra hour or two to go to a g A meeting with uh happened at CHET four to Chet forty Monday night. Football director was at that meeting. To um, we were friends that passed away in a year or two after I got released from jail or from the halfway house of the work release program. Um. You know that that got me a felony, and then I decided I can't do this anymore because the second felony might need some serious jail time. So I had thought I learned enough from the people who bet with me to be a successful better and just like my bookmaking career, I learned the hard way that that's not that easy, and I had a regroup there too. I had a decent amount of a decent bank roll which got cut into because I that too high from my talents um. But then again I learned to take that into consideration, work harder. Still was always a good hockey handicap. I was trying a little too hard to win a baseball regrouped, build up my bank roll again, and now I've been doing that from ninety five I moved to Vegas, so five twenty five years on the other side, so about fifteen years book making, twenty five years betting, maybe a little more in the betting side. I mean, isn't the biggest, the biggest point of all that to me, the big takeaway. Obviously it's a it's a roller coaster ride for you. But you know, running running foul the law side. If we could just put that to the side table that for a second you could not have gotten, it would seem a better education, Uh, to become a successful sports better then from your entire trajectory, right like to to two book sharps, to see, oh this is how I'm getting beaten, to book squares, and then to really realize that as a better than the experience again as a better early on as you said to to have a lack of success early on, but like that the bookmaking lessons must have helped you tremendously. On the other side. Yeah, sure, it was very easy to see what not to do because I have a bunch of a ton of squares and the squares tended to lose regularly. The wise guys always beat the closing line. So most of my I think most of my time is now beating the closing line as opposed to picking winners. And was that the single was that the single biggest lesson dinc was it? Was it beating the closing line? I mean if someone is landing on this yeah, someone's landing on this show for the first time. Let's say they are a novice better, what would be another bit of macro advice you would give them? As like the single biggest There's so much more to learned and what you think you know that that you have to You know, it's great if you can follow somebody or know somebody who's sharp and see how much work they do, because I don't know any successful gamblers. And it's harder now because you have to program and have bots and you really have some kind of a model, whether it's an intern, whether it's a model that you can push into a computer, or a model you can write down on paper. I'm still a paper and pen guy. But to arrive at a line that will get you the better that will be the closing number. That's that's my objective. And beating the closing number. If you're just going to bet without caring what number you're laying and when you're laying it at the right time, either early or very late. If you're up against a lot of very shot people, now it's really hard. I would stress that there are brilliant people in this business. When I first got into betting and book making, a college degree would make one of the top five of the people who are in the gambling field, and now a college degree would probably make you in the bottom. Just a college degree would make you in the bottom. Tempers, jeez, well, we gotta take a break here. When we come back, I want to dive into some of of what you just touched on, which is how do you view young, really educated betters today who are doing things with algorithms. Do you view them um with any disdain or do you view them with admiration and wish that you had had a similar background. I think you touched on that a little also, Um, with legalization, now are some of your worst fears coming true? Do you still think that sports betting ultimately for you is a profitable thing. We'll get back to that. Alan din Dinkinson kind enough to join us right here on a numbers game at vas in the Sports Betting Network. James Selina's Michael Lombardi as well, come on, come back to a numbers game with Gil Alexander. Back on a numbers game, just like the man said, Gil Alexander live in San Francisco. Alan dink Dinkinson kind enough to join us for the hour this morning. Um, and I mentioned all the things that Alan has done betting wise, I didn't mention a couple of years ago World Series of Poker Super Senior event cashed in that I think a top ten finish. Um. Lots of stuff here that, uh, you know, just a laundry list of things. We were joking on Twitter. You were joking last night. Uh, if we talk wrestling, you'd stay here for two hours. Are you still obsessed with wrestling out? Um? Yeah, I promote a small independent promotion. UM, wrestling has got me by. I listened to some podcasts every day just kind of keeps me busy. Not a big movie guy. I don't really want to watch those are and be depressed about seeing people. Uh. I'm more of a Prince of Brian kind of guy. So I want to se make me happy as opposed to, you know, intense watching movies about gangsters. You know, I understand. I'm trying to find happy things that will distract me. And wrestling is a nice little fantasy world that's created, uh to get you through hard times of the real world. And this is the real hard times, you know, sixties six. This is the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, I mean, look, yeah, I say it. I never thought it happened in my lifetime. I'm sure it's sixty six. You you feel the same way as a as someone who is sixty six years old, Dick, and you look at some of these young guys who are super educated and super smart. I brought up Rufus earlier on the show. Rufus Peabody is always the first person that leaps to mind for me as someone who does this. Um, you know, just absolutely cerebrally, and Rufus will be the first person to tell you as soon as his emotion gets involved, that's when he gets nervous or his thoughts. Um, do you look at guys like that just to hold him up as one of many who do that, not not not a huge universe, but more than just him, obviously. Do you look at them and and have it almost ad Is it admiration? Is it jealousy? Like equal parts that? What is it for you? Admiration? I think it's a little jealousy and the fact that I can't be like them. I can't do what they do. I can't code, I don't know what are is. I barely can use excel. I'm doing things, you know, the primitive way. I become the dinosaur of the business. But I'm friendly with all of those people. Um, Rufus, I know I wouldn't consider my friend, but I definitely respect him. I think he respects me. I'm friendly with Joey Tunes, I'm friendly with Spanky. I don't want to miss people. I'm friends with Rabisola, A lot of people who do a lot of coding and great work. And you know, I you know they respect me because I pay the way for them, I guess, and they know I respect them. I don't get I don't consider them enemies. They make me do work a little bit differently to get the good numbers. I have to bet before them, because I have to bet when the market doesn't have that much, that much volatility. I have to bet one Pinnacle and Chris open right away because they don't want to touch those lines, because they don't get down and knocking. That really helps me. But I admire them so much. I know them, I know their families, a lot of them. They're just really good people, the ones that I do know, and I consider a lot of them friends, and I certainly respect what they do well. We have ninety seconds here before the next break. Think, but given what you just said, that hurdle and perhaps others sports betting, then to to turn a profit is that much more difficult than I But I guess it was ten years ago, fifteen years, twenty years not. I guess I know. Does it is it to the extent that it almost deflates you sometimes? Or do you still think if you can turn a profit here consistently. I think I can turn a profit here consistently. But I used to be sure I can turn a profit here consistent. I have to. I have to keep up on my game, find little things. You know. I've been fortunately cashing the NHC this year. I was a little bonus the candicapping contest. Um. You know, I'm kind of a jack of all trade semester of none. But trying to beat the closing line is what I can do by work and by calling around, and by shopping well and having little outs and you know, having people help me a little get down on good numbers. I that's the that's my test. Leaving the closing line. You know it's not perfect. I know that's what gambles because the end all up to end all, and I think it's almost the end all to end all. But there's a time also to know enough about sports to buy back at the right time as well. Um, I always learned. I like to learn. So I like to talk to these kids to do well. And a lot of them have been nice enough to I love the attitude. Um, others aren't as gracious. I'll be honest with you. We'll come back. We'll find out just exactly what you're betting pie is these days, what you still love to bet what you love to bet recreationally? What's for profit? We'll come back Alan dink Dinkinson on a numbers game at Visa these Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander. It is Gil Alexander live in San Francisco, Dank Allen Dakinson in Vega. Appreciate it, Dan, and I appreciate you hanging out with us. So what are you betting these days? So, in other words, hockey became the sport that you were best known for. I assume when key resumes that you will all be all about hockey. But you mentioned you are involved in some You know you're still playing horses. That's what you cut your teeth all to use your words. Um, there's poker, Like, what are you doing for profit these days? What are you doing recreationally? I'm almost doing only recreational stuff. I consider this my first vacation in forty years. But I do look at things. I got involved with the UFC car that didn't work out so well. Um so that was the only thing I've done in the last two months that I consider real gambling. I do, uh keep busy by looking at horses, but my handles like three hundred dollars a day and maybe even less than that. Sometimes I'm just I don't want to handicap Finner and Will Rogers, and I always thought as tracks closed, I didn't trust gold Stream in Tampa Bay to stay opened that long. I've held my own with it for the last two months, but I really haven't even tried to make a Seria profit because I didn't want to come into this and go there's only a few things to bet, so I'll bet them. I didn't want to study Korean baseball. I'm just waiting for sports to come back, and hopefully there's something it's about baseball. I I do that it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard to get through this without problems, and I think the problems can puse them to close down after they opened. I'm taking a very pessimistic view until we get this thing cleared with a vaccine, and it might be a year, it might even be more. But I keep going with trying to be more social. Actually and see, oh I think we do we lose. Dick says, we'll try to We'll try to get Yeah, we got your back. Yeah, I know I meant upon resumption obviously with but you know, you bring that up about your pessimism with this working out, I have sort of you know, I haven't really joked, that's not the right word. But whenever I breast skepticism, dink on that as well, because I'm on your page, like, I'll believe it when I see the plan that makes sense. First of all, By the way, with baseball, the first thing that should exist is there's a no spitting rule. How are we even going to get past that hurdle? Right? Like, It's it's so basic even something like that. So I'm with you on that. But people get all crazy when you even express skepticism. But when it does come back, you're you're primarily what I'm getting a hockey and baseball guy. Yeah, that's what I want to do. I mean, chasing numbers or you know something we're looking for value in their markets on on basketball football. I do that as an inside Again, if there's a road number and I see it moving towards the away from that number, I might grab it. Whatever sports book account I have in the Vegas sports books, or a couple of all shores, a couple of paper heads, maybe a trade with somebody looking at late form and so seven here you want plus four plus so seven at the head deal. There's always things to do that give you a small edge. My edges are much smaller than they used to be twenty years ago. But I mean my biggest edges before Don Best. Don Best kind of ruined the business because it gave you too much information. Instead of working hard to get a line at the sea where the lines were moving, all you have to do is have a machine that everybody else has. And if you didn't have that machine and that information, you were away behind the game. So I blamed Don Best for from making this business highly competitive with people who don't work that hard because they see the same numbers that I do. Yeah, and the older I was there when Caesar's Palace at seven and the Valley's at five at the same time, and I had runners in those places, you know, like the five, we're taking the seven or a bout some of us hear stories like that, Nick, and we're just like wow, that like that, What an interesting time that must have been. Um that was my biggest regret. I didn't take advantage of great opportunities. I just thought they'd be there forever. So you know, just make a decent amount of money instead of optimizing my game. For lack of a better way of phrasing this, uh, in a more delicate way, I guess what else sort of pisces you off about the industry, Like in other words, Twitter is an interesting place, right, No one ever loses a bet there. With legalization has has come a proliferation of sports betting media. This network included, um, what what bothers you about? You know? This latest evolution is have your worst fears come true? With that? In some way, I think t would spother me the most of the people who have no opinions and act like they do, um, not quiet as you know, obsessive about it as some people, but that people look at people like, you know, the vaguest day as a as a prominent gambler or something, and it's like a guy that guys just trying to scam money. He's he's this generation STU finer. Uh, it's all smoking mirrors and that's not what gambler should be. With that, so I think I'm grouped into that that. You know, the people with the highest regard from the public are not deserving of the highest regard. It's people like you who know some of the people because they're You're a guest, deserved to be respected um, and sometimes that respect goes to the people who are just trying to steal your money. I think that's my biggest problem with the industry is it's it's very capable to attract scammers and have the scammers to be successful. Also, people who take shots and don't pay. The credit is a credit is a double edged sword. It's good for people who get credit and bookmakers who pay, and gamblers who pay, but it's really a problem when they're laid downs and book bookmakers open up and have no intention of paying. There was a bookmaker the day before the draft who must have saw what his viability was and every bet was one sided, and he decided to close down and come back when a sport would come and not honor any bets that were pending. So in order to get out of one day disaster that he knew was coming, he just canceled all the bets. You hear a lot of bookmakers are struggling now, so I worry about that too, So I only bet with the ones where I know get paid. Yeah. We Sadly we've heard stories during the pandemic of a lot of skins out there there that have done that with NFL draft bets for instance. Um yeah, and sadly they're not few and far between, which is obviously, uh not a good thing to say the least. We'll come back one more breaker, wrap it up with you, dink I want to get into how lay the Favorite came to you? Is the book better than the film? How of course the best of it came to you? All that? Um, Alan Dakinson right here on a numbers game at Visa these sports betting network at Visa, welcome back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander. Don't forget. Now is the time to become a Visent Plus subscriber. It is free. You won't have to decide what you want to do, pay or cancel until at least one of the major sports returns. Just go to Visa dot com slash subscribe to sign up. That's Visa dot Com slash subscribe. Allen Dinkinson, dank joining us for the duration of the hour. Here for the balance I should say on a numbers game at Visa. Series except channel to oh four, and thank you once again Allen for doing so. Um One of one of the reasons that I really am attracted to all the stuff that you put out on Twitter and just in meeting you here today is you're super honest. You're transparent. You're not one of these people who's talking about a win, just like I used to. Um So, I always respect honesty. Honesty is not a How can I put this? An abundant quality in this industry, as you very well know far better than I do. Um So, I appreciate that, sir uh Lay, the favorite Bruce Willis plays a character based on you. You were consultant for this film, I believe at first time of this company. Um well, the girl who wrote the book worked for me and we're still friends. Um They. I got to meet the director and the screenplay right, Stephen Frears and Dvdevon Centers, because they came to see before they did the screenplay. They came to look at my office and how I did my business, and we became friendly and they asked me to be a consultant, which about all the gambling stuff. So we did a ten days in Vegas. In the first seven days in New Orleans, and that was my half of the movie where I consulted. I was promised the paycheck. I'd never got it. That was from the EMMA I'm not. I don't know. He's fighting with fifty cents of something, some crazy independent. Yeah, was actually a producer of The Favorite, if you look at the credits. Not that I think he was. I think he was a money backer. He put in money. They bought the movie. They sold the movie before the movie was shot, so they didn't want to put anything into the movie, which is why the movie wasn't good because it was already purchased. Um, you know that the book is great, the best of our Guide. The book is so much the movie was, and then the book was very respected. She wrote such a good book that it became a movie. I don't know if you've read the book, but I always advised people to read the book before they see the movie, because if they see the movie, they have no interest in reading the book. Um, how about the best of It? I knew Scott e really a little. He was a producer at t V g Um. He was going to do a movie based on The Shrink. But in the middle of that movie, the Shrink passed away. So he picked it up with Alan Boston and I am lem Banker and did a documentary on four gamblers, even though one had already been deceased. Um, that was fun, that was easy. He just came to my house and shadow out of footage. And we're still friends too. I talked to him every once in a while. He's in Minnesota. Now I've had some life that yeah, yes, I mean I guess yeah, when you when you look back on all this, not to say that you don't have still a bright future. I don't want to. This is not a this is not in any way a eulogy of any kind. But when you look back on life, those those who are listening to this show, who are super fascinated by a gambling, by the characters who have created the industry into what it is, you know, have have have to you know, had a big hand in it, in it becoming what it is today, And they look at I mean, look, we just talked about you. You were better, you became a bookmaker, you went to jail, then you became a you know, you better again, you became successful, better you were you know, you had movies based on you. When you look back on it all. Do you know, like we all have a sort of story. I know, I tell about my mom. One one of her sons as a doctor, my brother the other one does something else right. She doesn't know really how to describe what what it is that I do. Other know, I think you on the radio. So we all have a lot of that in common. I'm not sure if your mom, uh you know your years that I was an accountant, I was an account Does she get what you do now? Or did or did she get how did you've gone now? She does with what I did when I went to jail, but until then I was an account She thought she could get me out of going to jail because she voted for somebody and who's a district attorney or something in New York, and that she was. She never really aggress what the whole thing, what how it works. She thought she's the gambling was terrible. She wanted me to be a stockbroker. And I tried to explain that that's kind of like aunt, that's not really not really an honorable, most honorable profession. But I've just been lucky. Two years ago, for two months, Joey and Colder would live with me. That was another one of those miracle connection things. She's she's going to be fighting for the UFC championship again, Valentina. When Valentina recovers from her injury, I know Santa Basler, well, she's one of my closer friends and she's going to be probably fighting for the w W championship again. Little things just fall into my lap and there are a bunch of fun miracles that made my life very exciting. And thinking, right, you're thinking of writing a book now, yeah, I'm thinking of writing a book. I just know how my vocabulary, I know how good death was as a writer. And I so pale behind her that, you know, and I look at my I write a chapter and I got, God, this is terrible, you know. And then I send it to her and she goes, she makes suggestions, and I go, you may as well write the book for me, because that's what it's gonna be. You know. She's just corrects all my flaws and my lack of a good vocabulary and lack of setting a scene. And you know, that's one of my strength, is I know my weaknesses. I think that's uh, somebody once described as my strength that I know my limitation and they don't try to leave them, which is very important. It's it's very important, Gambly, It's very important in life, right. It's a universal truism. The recognizing what you don't know is really a function of intelligence. So I guess we sort of answered the question. Maybe maybe we didn't. But what I was going to get to was, as you look back on all of it, would you have had it any other way? I'm sure you wouldn't have wanted to go to jail, but you said it was kind of an okay experience under the context of what going to jail means. I'm sure there are there are little regrets, but just from a big standpoint, a macro standpoint, would you have done anything differently? Or is this the life that you are really that you wanted to live? This is definitely the life I wanted to hate that this Older people are like going over my life, like I won't have more life coming, But um, yeah, this is the I said, I like, and you know, I wish it's been taken away from me by a pandemic. I'm also very you know, I'm involved with a band called The Joy Formidable. They become friends and they tore a lot and now they can't tour, and that that was something I always wanted to look forward to the next show. I would take a show where a friend is living that I haven't seen for a while and just fly out and go to that show. That was important to me. I thought I had like five good years left before I can't do things like because of age of invitations. H you know, you're still yeah, I'm worried about that. They're taking away like of my last good years in the pandemic. You know, I say that, and I say that, I think about about like twenty eight year olds and twenty nine year olds or of that age. I've been saying that about that age group, which is wow, that's like that's prime years that they you know, obviously they'll they'll have years to make up for it, but it really is time from their prime that you can't get back in some way. So it kind of sucks all the way around, right, Also going to change the world. The world is gonna be a lot different when we get through things that you can do, won't do things that won't be there, you know, yeah, I'll see Listen. I really appreciate spending the time. I'm sorry, go ahead, hoping we get the vaccine sooner than later, and like we can return to somewhat normal than a year. Absolutely, and most of it take the most of them, like Captain Jack preparing for the future, you know, thank you is preparing more more more, plans to attack more bookmakers in the future, to get ready. But when we come back to all, yeah, I'm so hopeful that this will not cripple us much longer. I'm hoping six months things will get much better. I hope as we listen. Yeah, because those of us who are as concerned as any still understand and you know, and still understand and recognize that at some point you got to dip your toe back into the economy. You can't do this forever. So I think if you can hold two thoughts and the balance, they're going until the boards opening to you know, there's about I understand that there's a balance that I have wealthy friends who don't leave a house because they don't need to leave the house, but I recognize that a lot of people do need to get back financially. Things are not closed, and we're going to lose a lot of businesses. And I feel terrible about that. You know, I worry about the world. It's not just me. I worry about the world. I think I got sixty seconds. What's the charity you're involved with? Real quick O Kyle thorough Red Rescue and they take horses from the race. I can rehome them and give them a job to do. Um it's a small it's a small Old Friends is a very big one. That's a little old friends for horses that aren't all that's successful. Sct B Rescue dot org is the website. If you're have a little extra money and you care about horse racing, UM, it would be great. Donate. I will be back when sports reopened, giving out picks that for donations. It goes right to the charity. Take compenny out of that. Um My giving back a Gambles don't really take anything, but they don't get them back either. So that's my way of giving back. I think a lot of gambles are now giving back more. Think of the way the world is. To Alan Dink, it's and everybody dink. You can follow him on Twitter at I guess that's dink ink. Isn't that what that is? At dink ink d I n K I n c t say again, I'm sorry name of my fake business when I was working with the name of your fake and make business Bag of the Day, Alan, thank you so much, sir. I appreciate it. Alan Dakinson right when the Number Game bag