On this episode of Bear Grease, most of the regulars, Clay, Misty, Josh, Gary, and Isaac, gather at the Bear Grease Global Headquarters to discuss the great and enigmatic leader of the Pan-Indian Confederacy Movement, Tecumseh. But not before the crew, who is joined by James Brandenburg, Chair of the Arkansas chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, talk about the upcoming second annual Black Bear Bonanza which will take place March 4th from 9am to 5pm and feature, among other things, an owl hoot contest MC'ed by our very own Brent Reaves and judged by Clay Newcomb. Misty then dives into talking about her first duck hunt, before the outfit jumps back into discussing perhaps one of the most underrated, forgotten, and earliest American Folkheros - of whom was said "If it were not for the vicinity of the United States, he would perhaps be the founder of an empire that would rival in glory Mexico or Peru." We really doubt you're gonna want to miss this one...
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My name is Clay and Nucleman. This is a production of the bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. What's your favorite type of bonanza? Mine's when it's like all yellow, no brown spots, no greens either. The favorite bonanza. Yeah, I don't even know what that means, like the type of fruit. It sounds like he's describing fruit. Oh, that was like, yeah, because bananza and banana are spelled close together. Joke as much as just like a bad joke, like a bad maybe dad jokeing. I think it's a dead joke. Yeah, I didn't get category. I eat a lot of brown bananas because because it takes two seconds. I'll tell you who'd rather eat a brown one that's like about to be you know, look like turned out a banana. What we call real love, a real made it an ethical and moral you know statement inside of our house eat brown bananas. Well, so that's where it started for me, Like I'm not going to throw away bananas, but I would prefer a yellow one. You know what I'm saying, he would prefer I mean or did it like did it just shift that way because of the moral stand But I'm saying if he went to Walmart and there was like brown ones there, he'd pick those up and by the time we got home him, he would have told us you're gonna eat those brown ones and you're gonna love it, because not everybody gets something for free in life, right Gary, So play it's all about the money man. My question though, is would he eat a black bear bonanza? Yeah? Exactly where we're starting. We have one Well, we have many many special guests today. One of our special guest today James Brandenberg. James, this is your first time on the Bear Grease is render Now you're a longtime bear Grease scoring throwing a devote. So James would have been on the Bear Grease podcast, didn't last year that the black Bear Black Bears black Banza. So the reason part of the reason James here, well that's not why is here. He's here because he's James Brannenberg and he's just here because he's jas and he's got a cool truck. Got a good truck. He's got a chivy A simmit, what is it? Thing? That's a g m C a T four. It looks good. It's got some I've got a GMC, but it's not quite that new and fancy, James. It's got some nice flavor on the on the campershell. Yep, we've got a pebble mine stickers, a b H A sticker. It's got tires, it's got the wheels. I mean, it's got the stuff. You know. You walked right past his truck, then walked right past mine. What do you think of mine? I thought your truck looked real good, totally functional, Silverado work truck, edition to commercials, been to Montana pool and mules like four times, New Mexico, Colorado, been all over the country General Motors. And every time I think about that, that's every time I think about that truck and you hauling that mule trailer with two mules in it, with a V six in there, I'm always impressed. Oh me too. I can't believe that. Everybody I passed and my impressing. I want to know I drove it the V six in there, so with mules on the back and so I think that you know, that kind of gives it an extra layer of credibility because it was going about twenty miles faster than went Drum all the way to Montampa. Do you have to have a souped up new GMC to attend the black Bear Mananza? I hope not? Or are all vehicles welcome? All vehicles welcome? Okay, the teacher and me is wanting to put some structure to the black Bear Bonanza. And what we're talking about. You tell us about the black Bear Bonanza. Alright, alright, black Bear Bonanza. It's a educational fundraising event. Um. It's put on by Arkansas b h A. It'll be March four at the Benton County Quail Barn in Bentonville, Arkansas. Starts fourth is a Saturday. It is a Saturday. Let me start this over. He said, this is a fundraiser event. People don't like stop down, good time about Arkansas black Bears and a bunch of cool people in a podcast. And yeah, it'll be it'll be so much fun when people get there that they won't even know it's fundraiser, fundraiser, educational event. Fundraisers. I heard they were going to have a live Black Bear just roaming loose in the event, dancing black Don't let that secret get out. We need to keep that in the what are we doing? What are we doing at Black Bear? But okay, so we're gonna do we'll have some cooking demos. Um, we're gonna do a Bear Grease Render podcast. So we'll all be there, well, I mean there will be. I mean, I'm pretty confident everybody in this room will be there. Okay, I confident that everyone in this room will be there. I mean, I'll goot, we gotta talk to see if he'll come. I'll go with you. I really want to you'll go. If Josh goes, Okay, we gottas will be there. Yep. Brent's gonna he's gonna m see the ol Hoot contest this year. You're going to judge it this year. So last year Clay m seed and this year we're gonna put his judging skills to the test. That's what you need to do. I'll be the greatest Alhoot judge that ever walked this continent. I have no doubt. That means you can't compete exactly. It's like a food I'm not saying I'm the greatest al hooter, No, I know that, but I'm saying you can't compete. But he would be like if like the scary food critic came to your restaurant and was like picking apart every single thing he did when it comes to al he's the Gordon was lacking a little bit. Let me hear your laugh. Hey, you know what I want to see with this this al hooting contest. I'd like, I'd like to see the best guys in the world come in here. Who is the guy who's the guy on the front porch of that old house. He's just a dude from Missouri. A lot of good Missouri man, it is. And see what I want to do is I want to start bringing in these guys and like they would become you know how, like like a guy would have a racehorse and he would be like, I want that racehorse and he's up in the stands watching. I'm gonna pay for this guy to come down here, and he's gonna be like a ring you know my guy. Yeah, I'm imagining like twenty years in the future this is turned into like the bass fishing Circuit where they have logos all over their and they pull in in the big trucks completely lowsed up, just to make an out. If you have, if you, if you are listening to this contiguous United States, Um, you should come to Bentonville, Arkansas for our hot contest. And when is it? And I think even it's March fourth. Even people from Alaska and Hawaiia welcome Clay. There's no barred owls over there. They don't know who I would think people in Canada. I feel like you're setting up a real underdog story for any or in Alaska. Yeah, I just shared half of Alaska, lot of or someone from the Caribbean. I mean, we could have a true cool Runnings kind of thing country. I'll be honest. I'm just gonna be Okay. So now I'm imagining Josh Spillmaker, who is in the room and a part of the Render today, as a real sort of John Candy esque X who moves to Jamaica and Antiga, okay, which is kicked out of the Render and you went down there, yeah with my team, Yeah, come back in here. I feel like this is a big high quality bear Grease intellectual property. The Disney move where Okay, alright, alright, so okay, we got heac hashtag. Isaac quit interrupted, Mike scited about the answer. Wait, let Misty talk, don't interrupt. Okay, so we got a contest, alhot contest. We're gonna Myron Means from the Game and Fish Commission, Large carnivoreologist. He will do another Q and A session for us how big it will be wearing a pair of overalls John Dear. If you have a question, asked how big he is? Clay did a video with him on a bear Den study that's available somewhere. Knew how big. Yeah, it's all about scale video. It is scale. Um. The newer things that we're adding to it this year will be we're gonna do a butchering demo. Part of this is a deer, hopefully a dear if we can get one. You know, if it's not that, we'll get a a pig or a goat or something like that. It's generally the same thing. But what we're trying to do is introduce people to the fact that we go outside. Yeah we can hike, we can bike, but we can also a hunting fish. These things are very normal activities that that we engage in and and we have a lot of people moving into the area who maybe don't do that but are interested in learning. How We're gonna try to break down the barriers to that so that they have a little bit more confidence. We're introducing them to b h as A as an avenue to gain those skills. And then the fundraising piece of it. Um, We've got a couple of things that we're going to uh raffle off. But I'm gonna I'm gonna pass this around so metaphorically and physically it is. It's a very large knife. And and this knife was made by Garrett Polk. This knife, this is not one you just want to go trapes in through the woods on your hip. We'll see. And this is what Garrett told me yesterday. This is what he told me about it yesterday. It's a beautiful knife. The handle is made with a femur bone from Batman. That handlebone it looks like lp ivory. It is not. It is the beaver bone from the largest black bear I've ever killed. True story. We'll get some good pictures of this up on the Instagram, But um steel is probably four and a half five inch blade. I got the particulars And what Garrett told me is this knife is made to be used. He said, that's what they all said. He yeah, they all want them to be taken out into the field and used. And then he made the sheath for it, and it's got a beaver tail inlay on the sheath. That beaver was trapped on public land here in Arkansas by one of our board members, Brad Green. So we will so we're this knife will be in the special ticket and then put it in a bucket. And yeah that's great man. I really like that beare bone. Man, it for real looks like looks like ivory. Um. Can we talk about Josh this thing? Yeah? Your hat? Oh oh yeah, the sticks are high for the alhookm. Yes. So the winner, the winner of the Alhoot contest Clay is going to get handmade coon skin cap. That's a big deal. Yeah, made by Josh bu Winker. There's only a handful of those on this great planet. Yeah. So um, so last year we had people from all over the country come. We did. We had from Pennsylvania to Idaho. We had from the Dakotas all the way to South Texas, you know, from across major Last year I don't know how many people were there. We had about and that was our first year and we didn't It is the first year we did it. It's a good event and I'll be there all day just hanging out. It's family friendly, bring your kids. Everybody twelve and under gets in free this year. Tickets are super easy. It's ten bucks for adults to get in the door that you know, have a good time all day. Game and Fish Commission is going to support us as well, so they'll have some some educational booths and stuff like that. And then, you know, we can't do all of this without sponsors. So far, are big sponsors are um Rex, the airgun company. You know, people listen to this podcast would have heard their ads. Vortex has has just they were like, sign us up, we want to help out. And Numerax was the same way. They reached out to us. They're like, hey, when's that going on? We want to be a part of it. So good and we're gonna do a live beargrease render there. I'm not sure who's gonna be on it yet, so all of you in this room just be on your best behavior. Maybe you get picked, maybe you won't. This is our audition. Can we plead our case or is it a drawing? Well? Yeah, first tis well, that's great. So that's March the fourth, Benton County Quail Barn in Bentonville in Bentonville, Arkansas, doors open in nine. We'll go from nine to five. There will be things going on all day. Come for the whole day, have a good time. We'll have a website up so it's the easiest way to find it is go to Backcountry hunters dot org, look for the events page and look for black Bear Bonanza and by the time this podcast comes out, that page will be up and people can buy tickets, and folks, if you're coming, buy tickets and let us know you're coming. So we make sure and have enough of everything there for you. Corn dogs, enough corn dogs, water, and porta John's. Yeah, the three things. I'm gonna have corn dogs stand there. No, I'm not clay dogs. Well, great, fantastic. Mr Nukem had a big day yesterday. She killed her first duck. Congratulate everything you hoped it would be. I have things to say. All right, I'm not the big hunter in our family. The hunting that I've done done pretty much in the last twenty years. Yeah, it's it's actually Clay. You may be surprised, um, but the last twenty years I've gone hunting. Most of the time, I'm a chaperone. I'm sitting or like just coming along to hang out with Clay. I could get into duck hunting, like I could. I could be a duck hunter. And I believe that's Huntress, Huntress. That's right, that's right. We I really didn't know what to expect. I really like, I've seen pictures of people duck hunting and it kind of looks really different. And I knew waiters were involved, so I figured, Okay, it's gonna be cold, wet early. This doesn't sound like a lot of fun. But going to take one for the team. First of all, Amory, just as kind of a continuation from last from Amory Dramas, who was on the last podcast, gave me some tips that she learned from Kaylee that that she also learned and both were on the last part shooting tips. And so we went out the first day that evening we got there, and we also want to tell you I am right handed and left eye dominant as well. You're not the only one. Well, and it doesn't even matter, it turns out when you're shooting ducks, because you're looking at the target, not at the not down the barrel. And so that was a game changer. So she gave me a few tips and really, I I I couldn't believe what a difference it made in a matter of seconds, not hours, and not lots of practice. But I was able to shoot those skeat and that was fun, super fun. I mean not a percent, but still better than zero percent um. And then the next morning we woke up and I really didn't know what to expect. The dog situation in duck hunting is pretty amazing because the dogs just like it's super fun to watch a dog that's been bred to do something that has a function. It's really amazing to watch them. And so the dog was like antsy and he was sitting. They had this chair hooked up to a tree, and it was just really enjoyable to watch him. You know, we would we would talk and have which is like thing too, So thing one the dog, that's that's and I'll come back to the thing two in a second. But um, you can actually talking duck hunting. And but the dog was no nonsense he was just like sitting there and he was alert and watching and he if you watch the dog, you could see, Okay, here's where the ducks are coming in from. And so they were really everybody was so so nice, Brittain Clay especially, you know, we were with Amory Dramas, me and Brandt and then Luke Naylor who is the waterfowl biologist, no, the director chief, the chief and the wildlife the chief of the Wildlife Wildlife Division. Yeah, and they were so so nice. So when it's the first little the first thing of ducks came in, what do you call him? There? Well, what do you call? What do you call? Is it? So the first flock of ducks came in, they just let me shoot. No one else shot. And the first one came in, it was like, I don't know what to do. Where's my god? You know, I mean like it takes a minute to like get in position. You don't see him coming in. Yeah, I mean like you're just kind of you're kind of hide and trying to be steel, and it's just like all of a sudden, and so like I thought I would be prepared, but it took a second to get the gun up and I mean I think I shot that first time but definitely didn't hit anything. But then the second one that came in they did again. They just let me shoot and it was a group of a flock of teal, which apparently is a real fast little bird. And I shot and I got I got one, and it was super exciting, like super exciting. There's no film of it because we were just uh, you know, it was all hands on deck to get me. Yeah. And and then so what was Then they released the dog and the dog just jumps up and it looks like it's you know, this was this is what its purpose in life is and got to fulfill it. And it was so I love the dog. I mean, yeah, Baron, I'm probably probably gonna have to. So then we weren't working many mallards. We were sitting on the edge of a overgrown field that had just kind of been and had not been planted or tilled that year, and it kind of butted up against the slow and it had flooded. And so basically it was a flooded field that didn't have crops in it, but it had coffee bean and a lot of just like not actual weeds and vegetation in it, and they had they had seen some mallards right there the day before. So we were sitting there, but the mallards weren't working much, but we'd have Teal come bombing in. And so after Misty Kill, Misty Kill went on the second group of duck ducks that came in, and so we were like, sweet, we got a duck. And so she was getting some confidence. And so the next time I were working a group of like seven or eight Teal and they're about to light and I say, Misty, just start pulling the trigger and don't stop. You know, I just got a plug in there, and I said shoot three downs and she just looked at me, just like, oh, we can do that. I hope it wasn't bam bam bam. Well there we go, there we go. So thing that I like about duck hunting dogs thing too. You get to talk to people. It's real social. It's a lot more and and we were with great people. They were a lot of fun and everybody was I mean they were across the board just fantastic hosts. And I learned a whole lot about about ducks and and just it's just fun to be with people and it's a lot and then think three, it's just the intensity of it, like it's not like you know when you go to deer hunt for five weeks and and I remember going to Clay one time describing our ship when he was taking ship hunting, and he said it was like being in a sleeping bag with a coyote, just like just like you're restless. And I kind of felt like ship and all those deer hunts, it's like, well, I've just gotta sit here, and it's it's just not as it's rewarding at the end. But it's different than than duck hunting. Um, Whereas duck hunting, like they come in and it's like it's it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah, you like the dog work I did, Yeah, that was pretty amazing to watch. I've got the perfect breed of dog that you guys, I mean, you get the perfect dog for me. I do Boykin Spaniel. How's it doing great? You're talking about Yeah, yeah, you talked about the and the dogs sitting there like, yeah, yeah, we went. We went this past Sunday and we had some geese come in and they landed too far out where we we had no shot at him, but he could see them. And I was sitting right next to him. We were on the on the bank of this strip pit pond, and he was vibrating like literally he wanted me to let him go so bad, you know, And I didn't have to hold onto him, but I was just in case. It's the I mean that there's a lot of good things in duck hunting, but that's probably the best part of it for me, is just watching that dog gets so excited to go out and catch the thing that it was made to do. And boys are boykins are great family dogs, they're great pets like ours. Just you know, he'll just lay around the house and be snugly and everything, and then when it's time to go, he's at the door winding ready to go. How big is he? He's thirty five pounds, he's about ya tall. You know what is that eighteen at the shoulder? Yeah, pretty small, smaller, much smaller than a than a lab. Yeah. Yeah, I think you've been deck hunting quite a bit. Oh yeah, where you've been? I can't tell you tell me, you're tell me every single spot you've been. I've been in the Delta in Arkansas, a lot and then just uh you know west central Missouri quite a bit. There's a lot of scratching out no no lights out days up in Missouri, and I managed time and so that, uh I was my time down in Arkansas last week was book ended by two really great days on either side. A limit, A limit for mallards. Yeah so yourself. No, no, I I've got a buddy down there, and no, no, no, no, they were limiting the day. The two days before I showed up, you weren't even there. I scratched out a few ducks and then they started killing them again once we left. So it feels good, got you, man. Okay, here's the thing that I have yet to well, I'm getting I'm starting to understand it. Just the more you're exposed to utting, the more you understand the the draw to it. And if you understand the draw to it, and that's not the best way to describe it, but the more that you can get through the hard part of um. Like, for instance, we took some people coon hunting the other night for the first time, and I was trying to understand their position inside this coon hunt. We just went out in the dark and turned this dog loose that they have no connection to, nor do they probably really have any value for a coon. I mean, like most people would see a con dead on the side of the road ode or truck ham pictures, and it's it's not this like highly valued animal. And you hear a lot of negative press about coons being overpopulated and all this stuff nest predators. To me, when I hear a dog bark just as faint as you could hear one, and you walk to it and you get like a hundred yards from the tree, and you see glowing orange eyes and you hear your dog underneath it, Like that is a incredible like feeling. And when you walk up and you see a ringtail hanging off the bottom of that tree, and you don't get that just in a moment. You get that over a lifetime of wanting to love something and and and kind of what it represents. So to me, a treed coon is just like wow. But somebody else, somebody just be like, dude, I see coons every day on side the road dead. I'm starting to learn about what that is for duck hunting, because duck hunting is a ton of work. Yes, it's you wake up extremely early, and more times than not you don't do very good. Yeah, and and this is the one thing about big game hunting is that you can go have a bad streak of deer hunting, but at the end of the season, you know maybe you're gonna get your buck, and the payoff is so big that it makes all that suffering worth it. And so I hiked. We hiked. We calculated about seven miles on Sunday at the place that we went duck hunting. Duck hunting and so in hiking, in carrying decoys, and then we did a little bit of just walking around, maybe jump shooting if we could find any and we couldn't find any. We didn't fire our guns on Sunday, hiked seven miles and even if we had, I mean, the most we would have brought home is six ducks, which is not nearly as much stuff as what you get off of one deer. Right, So it's but but the experience of being out there, you're out early, you get to see everything. It's exciting. You're talking about where are you gonna go, You're calling. That's the that's the fun part, right, is talking to the ducks and trying to get that figured out. Um, I don't think you can underestimate the like aspect of like the foolishness of it, and like so that goes hand in hand with like the talking like camaraderie right where you're all up in the middle of the night in the dark, standing in water hopefully it's really cold, like that's like the best case scenario. Yeah, yeah, and you're like doing this all together with your friends and you're like, why are we doing why are we doing this? Yeah, exactly because I can't not and and then' and no, it's not like you get a trophy duck, you know what I mean. It's like, you know, I used to think that, but there there are so first of all abandoned if that's a trophy. But we went on a guided hunt in Nebraska last year and we shot some widgeon that were we'd never even seen a region before. I'm not a very season duck hunter, but we shot a region that everybody else in the blind was like, oh my gosh, that's beautiful. And then when you start looking at it, you're like, oh, I understand why this is. It's really nuanced, I guess, but it's completely luck I mean it's duck on a trail camp and I'm gonna go hunt it. But but it's not I think that would Uh. I don't know that that's the best way to say it, Josh, but it is true, like you're not targeting a specific duck. You're not like I hope, I hope the other day we had that thing on trail camp for a week. I've got a serious question mile away. He wasn't daylighting. And then all of a sudden, that's someone that's new too. I I picked up that bandits were banded ducks were really valuable. What's the Is it just that it's cool, It's just it's just that it's one and it's rare. But I don't know how many ducks literally are banded. I mean, let's say, in five thousand ducks. I don't know. It's and it's kind of neat that you can plug in the information on the band see where it was banded. It's like life cycle. That's that's a neat, little new And there is a lot of little neat things about duck hunting, and one of them is the diversity of ducks. Like when we go out here squirrel hunting, like we could kill fox squirrel or gray squirrel. And you go deer hunting, you know you're gonna kill a deer. When you go duck hunting, you all the different ducks are are there's different value added to how many different ducks can you kill in Arkansas? Oh? There there are forty one in North America. I don't know how many are specific. I would guess about fifteen to seventeen species just off the top of my You're probably in anyone given SI only gonna kill like two or three varieties. But the guys here in Arkansas at least want to kill mallards. They care less about most other ducks. Um, that's just what except for teal missing our big teal pieple. I'm a huge teal fan and they're really cool. Now, what I wanted to ask about the teal is how are you going to cook the teal? So I'm okay, So I have one, right, I mean I have a teal okay, And it's not bay Way. Wait, you just have one. So you shot at all the other ones and you guys didn't bring any more back. We Yeah, there was one other teal keeled okay, it was a two bird morning okay, and I I really want to mount mine. It is a really pretty birth and so um. And I was having a hard time deciding whether to mount it or to cook it, because the whole reason I went was I wanted to cook it back and anyway I got and the and the other one was donated to meat to cook. So um. But I think we had a gumbo, a duck gumbo, and I thought that would be super like it was you you would call it demo. That's a good idea. Um, I thought that would I want to do something where it's either pressure cooked or you know, low and slow. We tried some duck, but we try to cook duck last year. We're not rare meat people, and that I think makes a huge difference in whether you like duck or not. I think, yeah, And so since that's not who we are, we're gonna have to find another way than just like you know, smoking are grilling it up. Look up teal in a jar. That's a that's a way to do it, and you you know, put all the ingredients into a jar and cook it low and slow. Um, I've heard that's pretty good. I think I think I might have tried it once. But I can't remember for sure Brad that we were talking about earlier with the beaver tail. Okay, they did it once and he's not a big duck hunter. They thought it was okay. So it's really funny because I have this one teal and in the past two days everyone's given me a recipe, and it's like, well, guys, I've got this one deal a bunch of friends, yea for my plate. On my plate of deal, I'd like to talk about a man named Is that why we're here? Okay? Okay? I like I like the way they say his name to Comsy. Okay, well, there is a way, Robert Morgan said, is that the way you wanted to say it to t Comsa? I've always been it to comes a guy? What did you what? We started off to come see and then you and then you were code switching on me. Yeah, you'd be saying to come see, and then I say to Comsa, and then you'd switch over to Kamsa and then somebody. Then he goes back, yeah, well and it's neither one of them. To man on the way here, I said his brother's name like two hundred times so I could remember it. And now I forgot again ten squattawa, I said it different ways one tanks. Because this is what I want to start off on talking about comfort, is that I have never Isaac can vouch for this. We've I've never researched something so long. This was well over a year ago that I started researching two KOMPSA and as I, as I learned more and more, pronounced the names different and as I kind of nailed it down. But this was probably the most well, for sure, the most research that ever did. You went to New York, Maryland. I went to Wahoma. I went to New York to meet with Robert Morgan. To meet with New York Times bestselling author Robert Morgan. If I'm if I'm ever a New York Times best selling author, I want yall. You're just gonna have everything away. You're gonna have your friend New York Times bestselling author Morgan name. That's the way I want to introduce him. It's like you did this my man Maryland was bestselling author Stephen Ronella. Well he is for sure, yeah, multiple so the so Robert Morgan, I went to his house to talk to him, and UH also interviewed him about another topic that we haven't even done. Um. Then I went to I went to Maryland for Peter Cousins. Went to d C Washington, d C, Yeah, Maryland essentially, um to meet with Peter Cousins, who is the author of the book Two Comes in the Profit, which is I mean, I'm not really authorized to say what is the seminal work on two Comes to because there are a lot of books on two Comes To and a lot of stuff, but I've not found one that is that I liked as much as this one, and I looked at several of them. So this is a great book. Two Comes in the Profit. It's it's a it's a read, man, I mean, it's it's a read. It's not it's no joke. Um. So we went up there. Now, I went to Dallas, Texas to meet Dr Dave Edmonds, who basically has spent his life as a historical researcher of Native American history, but he's also very involved in with multiple tribes and and and stood before, been been involved in court cases and different things that have to do with tribal history. There's a lot of there, there's a lot of stuff going on right now that I mean that has always gone on with the tribes and the US government and land and treaty stuff. They're still I mean it's pretty wild. And so Dave Edmund's very very very knowledgeable guy. And uh Daves like eighty one years old. He was, Yes, he was a new guy. And then um Miami, Oklahoma and met with Chief Ben Barn which was a really I thought about that Miama, Oklahoma. Yeah, and you went to well, we went to Ohio watched the two Come Suh outdoor drama. Yeah, me and Isaac drove to drove to Ohio to watch There is an outdoor drama in Chillicothe, Ohio that's been going on for fifty years. I mean a major outdoor production with like a hundred cast members and outdoor stadium gunshots that they don't prepare you for gunshots. Two hour long outdoor play. We got live horses, Indian battles, hang out with the guy who produces it and the pyrotechnics guy who have both been there for a long time. Yeah. So there's a lot on two Come So. And the best part of it is is that I didn't know anything about to Come So a year and a half ago. Nothing I I'll tell you how I got interested in him as I was reading another book, a book by Alan Eckhart called The Frontiersman, which I didn't ball boy, I'm gonna make some enemies. I didn't like the book. I actually couldn't finish it. It was written in a it's a very famous book. It's it's, it's he wrote very well known, a well known biography of two Come sat And he also wrote the Outdoor Drama, didn't he And he's you know, he's art at heart. Yeah, he's he's passed away, but he, uh, his his books, especially The Frontiersman, were done. They're they're written what do they call it, like a historical narrative, historical fiction. Yeah, Basically they take real stuff that they know happened and kind of dramatize it inside of telling in the story form. So it's it's it's very informative and that you you probably get a really good picture of what happened. But they're totally just guessing about like you know, they would put words into comes his mouth about him talking to it would be a story that is informed by the historical figures and a lot of research, but factually it's like, yeah, I had a hard time. Yeah, my wife loves books like that. She loves a historical fiction. So but I was telling you, I was telling you why I was reading that book, and it was talking about two compsa because he's in the book and it and it talked about how his name meant panther crossing the sky. That's pretty They knew how to name yea and I mean Sylla. That's a good one. Yeah, it's so complex though, Tin Squaddo his name wasn't Tin Squatta until after he had the visions. His name was. I still think it's a It's a better name than Josh. Sorry, man, great, so so moms you need to work a little harder in their own way. The other thing that I wished I had known, which I declared on the podcast, was that I wish I had known about the burying a white tail antler with a Nambo's big chance. Did y'all do that with me? Dad? No, we did. You got that umbilical cord floating around anywhere? Is it too late to bury it? There another body part you could use. It's a cut off the finger. Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe. Well, um, misty, what do you think of the podcast? I thought it was really good. I thought, yeah, you're you're taking a pretty complex topic and you're just trying to look at it. Yeah, shoot it straight, get get the get the facts, and none of the other stuff around it. And you know, you acknowledged the podcast that this kind of stuff, for no good reason, can be difficult to talk about because people get so um, I don't know, people get so easily offended and and and don't necessarily want to look at things just yeah, there there are people want to make a lot of a lot of qualifying statements around everything. And I thought you did a good job of just like saying this is this is what happened. This is a story. It's a very intriguing story. I mean, there's so many different aspects of this particular story. As as you're going through it almost felt like it almost felt unreal. I mean, like the brother what did he I I remember your phrase? Do you think he called that down? What was what was told William Henry Harrison that he was going to go back to Detroit and stomp his foot and it was gonna earth was gonna shake his house down. Okay, yeah, and the yeah right right, so the earthquakes and but there are just several aspects of it that were, yeah, almost unbelievable. And I'm not saying that I don't believe these things happened, Like I I do believe these things happen. But I just thought it was a great It's a very intriguing tale. I'm looking forward to hearing the other two. I think there's it's a sad tale. I mean it's it's on a lot of different levels personal, like what happened to his people? If I put myself and I think that's what you did really well in this. You you made to come to come to a person, you know, you made him a person that you could relate to and not like this heroic figure what she was, but or or you took someone whose life had a whole lot of dynamics in it that that seemed too big to be real, and you could kind of feel like, well, if I was in his bow, if I was in his shoes, this is how I would. Uh. Yeah, I can understand. I can understand that. Yeah, I love love being an Indian. Yeah, he loved living the way that they wanted to live. Yeah, And it's you know, I think it also gives a level of well, I'll let someone else. I'll let someone else talking. If you don't think what was you can give an overarching statement, but like, what is one thing? I can think of one thing that if I were to talking to you, I would get excited about and I would say, man, you wouldn't believe this. I thought it was fascinating to overlap with Daniel Boone. Yeah, I mean that was Yeah, that was that. That kind of came out of nowhere. Like I didn't. I didn't quite you know, I listened today to the podcast and I didn't quite catch all the timelines. And then when you started talking about that, I'm like, oh, man, this is like two huge figures in American history just piling around, you know what I mean. I think it's pretty incredible at the very least, and more of uh uh Daniel Boone's biographies it would come up. Oh and by the way he had these interactions with this probably the most prolific. Yeah, I mean, Daniel Boone wouldn't have even eventually he would have known who I mean, surely too Compson would have known who Daniel Boone was, at least at the very least. And yeah, I thought that was pretty fascinating. Yeah, yeah, but we do. There is no record right of the mac fully, No, they were just they were contemporaries all that stuff back there. It's so there is a lot of folklore around all those guys. Yeah, folklore meaning just we're not exactly sure how to dial it in. Possibly exaggerated Taylor, but that is not folklore. I mean like Tecumsa was was with black Fish, who was his adopted father, and it was the same black Fish that adopted Boone, and they would have absolutely overlapped. So, I mean, there's no question about that. The speculation is was was two comes one of the kids that Boone gave candy too. I didn't the statement I made. I made too just interesting statements that I remember. I remember Boone telling his son Nathan that Blackfish would suck on a sugar cube and give it to him. Man, when you think about uh, like a way to like caw sure a moment in history. Boone knew how to do that, and it showed so much of what Blackfish wanted from Boone and who he was. But the way I said it in the podcast, it made it sound like Blackfish was given candy to the kids. Boone was the one who also told Nathan, his son that hey, I would give candy. I guess he got sugarcubes from somewhere to the little kids in Chili coffee or they weren't Chili Coothee at that time. Uh well yeah they were. He could have given a sugar cube to two come that speculation. We don't know that. So I thought that was really fascinating. I also, um, you know, we've talked a little bit about Chief Ben Barnes. Fascinating guy to here speak. I mean just he seems very articulate and knowledgeable, and I'm hoping we're going to get to hear from him for sure. It was it was kind of I kind of hated it that he didn't show up more on this first episode. He just did. We didn't talk as much with him about the chronology of it comes to his life. So he weighs in a whole lot more in later episodes. And we're gonna hear about the Shawny Nation today. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, but Dad, what do you think? It's always very very good? Um, really deep. I mean, it was just like I just couldn't believe all the action in that thing. Um an amazing guy. You know, I read about Quanta Parker years ago. The two guys remind me of each other, umpire of the Summer Moon. And I'd never dreamed there'd be an Indian more popular and bigger significance than Quantum. I mean he entertained presidents and uh m hmm. But this guy was amazing. I mean I liked it when they said you have a personnelit on the arise. They didn't say a generation or every other generation, but you see it in sports. You know, you go, this is a generational athlete. But he was one in a many, many, many people that had the ability to lead. Uh just a natural ability. And you know his looks that was enter interesting, you know. I mean he had everything you would want in a leader. He even had a limp where people could tell who he was from a distance. I mean, he was a beautiful guy. He was built well, he was strong, he was his voice. I mean everything about him was said, I am the guy follow me. Now. I'm not sure. Uh, I assume he took the nation down the right path. I don't know about that. I mean, you know, he cost a lot of lives by taking that direction. But uh, it's also intriguing to me that it was just oh, how Wisconsin, Indiana, you know, Illinois, just a mid America. Yeah, you know, it's sounds like a pretty good plan to me. Let's go for that. Yeah, that's that's and that's so deep. It's it's hard to get everything right. But that's the simplest way to say it is that it comes to didn't think that the whole continent of North America was going to be given back to the Native Americans. They just wanted an Indian nation, and that, when you think about it, is really doesn't sound that wild. I mean, think about Europe. Think about Europe. Europe is full of different countries. I mean there's i mean a country like the U. S That has this much geographic land of of contiguous you know, geographic areas in the same jurisdiction of government. Is pretty wild. And you know, if there was a there was a country inside of this, we we wouldn't just be like yeah, that's it would have worked. I mean we would have combined forces together and been like one country. I mean, who knows where it would have gone. But pretty crazy. Yeah, well, and that's the thing about it comes to that so intriguing, and we really haven't even got into These things are so hard to put together because we haven't even got into really what he did. We described We spent a lot of time on his childhood, which I thought that's always one of the most interesting parts to me of these guys lives. Who made them and why are they the way they are? And when you see the crisis into comes to his life, Oh my gosh, we can't. Now there are people on planet Earth today that can identify with living in a war zone and having people killed. I mean, this is not something that is unusual to human race. Yeah, for for us here in North America. Yeah, but I mean three major figures, like every father he ever had died by the time he was fourteen years old. His his older brother, who then was tasked to raise him dies. Chess Aqua says, I don't want to be buried like these You're not supposed to say that word anymore, squaw. They don't say that anymore. They don't, ye, so, but that's what that's what they said. Did He said, I I want the fouls of the air to pick my butt. Love that man. I just thought that was awesome. I'm thinking, that's kind of the way I want to go make that happen. That had to get renamed because it was called an old squaw. Yeah it's a long tail now, Yep. I'm for it, Yep, I just want it recorded. When I heard that, I immediately lived at Clay and said, hey, I don't feel the same way for those the Native Americans. And this goes back to what's so intriguing to me from a language and kind of folks each like, where did where did the kind of the American dialect come from? Is that the Native American orators were powerful. You go back and listen to the very first introduction of the podcast. I start off with a quote from Takompsa where he's talking to who would eventually become a US president, William Henry Harrison. Just listen to the way he spoke, and there are hundreds of two Compsa quotes where I mean, those guys, man, that's all they had. They didn't have written language, they didn't have they didn't have books to write stuff in. I mean, in most of their history, what they had was spoken language, and they were masters of it. And then when these Europeans came over here with the English language. They heard these guys talk and we're like wow. And and you know, Robert Morgan is the one who told me that. Well, I said of that to say, what chis Aqua said was that's just the way they spoke. They were just dramatic in the way that they spoke. You know, they said, I want the fouls of the air to pick my bones. I don't want to be buried back at camp. But that would have really impacted Ta Kompsa and the I'm picking on two things here, the fog of death over his life, but then that translated into him being this leader, visionary with with what he believed was in the best interest for his people, and then him being this great orator and leader. Incredible stuff, Isaac, What was your favorite part? I got three big ones. Okay, One the idea that he like stood up on on that the First War Party outing fifteen years old against Like, if I was in that position, I'd be like, Yep, we torture people. That's what I'm into now, Like because I had just no like personal authority or you know, identity. Yeah, to be able to be like, hey, guys, even if I felt that way, you know, and I'm not. I'm not trying to map my my current understanding of the world onto these people. But to see someone do that is truly remarkable to me. Yeah, to stand stand against a trend because you could not. But as a not as a full grown man, as a fifteen I mean to some degree he was, but like as a fifteen year old boy, I was, you know, lightening bottle rockets with my buddies and getting up to no good. He's like, hey, let's let's reconsider this tradition. Yeah too, I've been back and forth, so like, hey, let me stop you. I want to talk about that, because that was a definer of comes his life. That was what got back to the American people, that made them love to compsa was that that was that was part of what got back. And um, I had asked Peter Cozens, I said, where did where did that come from? And and in the section we used on the podcast, it was kind of like we don't know where he got that, Like how did that come What wasn't on the podcast because I just had to chop it was he He told me that there were some other chiefs, like way back, like a random chief every now and then would be like, hey, this is bad, we shouldn't do this. So he he he probably had that in his in the historic lineage at some point, but he still had to stand up vehemently. And we just told this time when he was fifteen, when he did that, that was the first time he made a stink about it. But all through his life, even to his deathbed, he was going in and like scolding guys for for torturing prisoners, which was extremely calm whole life. And to bring it back to uh Daniel Boone, Uh, it makes me wonder he was ten years old when Daniel Bunde was captured. Only five years later he's standing up to a war party saying, like, let's reconsider how we operate here. So it wouldn't surprise me if he stood out as a child in this circumstance, you know what I mean, Like ten years to fifteen years old is not that big of a difference. Number two, I like my background. I maybe considered more of a bleeding heart or I don't know what you would want to call it, but like I empathize with the plight of Native Americans, and I feel kind of bad about the way that they have been treated historically speaking, And I was listening to a podcast recently that deals with a modern struggle of native rights against uh, the established government, and I got to thinking, like, in any other circumstance, a conquered people like it doesn't matter what they feel like. The history of people is that we conquer other people's and then it's like, too bad, you lose. And so I was like, is my feeling correct about this? But one of the things things that made me swing back to my original position on this is the idea that what is at stake here is not a conquered people versus a conqueror, but it is a powerful entity that operates in bad faith, giving treaties and then going back on their word, saying here's how we're going to deal with you, and then discovering that that was a lie or a ruse to whatever. And so ultimately what we're saying is not only is this a people who has treated poorly in terms of they had the bad luck to be overran by people who had better technology and a bunch of disease, but then those people who were operating in power dealt in bad faith with them and have continued to and so that's a lot of the issue that we're dealing with today, not this abstract comp concept of this people was treated poorly back then, but our government said, here's how we'll operate with you. Here is a legal document that says these are your rights, this is your place that cont annually was treated like garbage. And so I think that that is an interesting thing to view this through, because not only is there this moral question of what's right and wrong, but there's this legal question of we they are probably owed something to some degree, and and through that lens the idea of hey, I'd just like to set up this Indian country. That seems like a very valid and very small ask, especially because that was guaranteed to them by the way our government operated. And so I think that's an interesting concept. You touched on it in the podcast, but we didn't go in super deep. Yeah, which leads to my third point, which is it's he's so interesting and this is kind of what Gary was talking about in this like great like confluence of all of these personality and physical traits the oration. So much of the story of Native Americans is our government dealing with them a way that they don't understand like the idea of private landownership and so like to treat with them in that way is kind of dirty pool. And then here we have somebody like two Comes who understands the concept, is well versed in the way of the American people, but then also has the backbone to stand up and go I reject that. So I'm going to lead my people with this understanding into a way that could potentially um bring success. And I think that's another just really fascinating aspect of his unique personhood. Yeah, James, what do you think, Well, there are a couple aspects of it that jumped out to me. The first part of it that I was really struck by. I think if you if you took the names off of all the different parties in it and just told the story from from the standpoint of UM, a charismatic leader and oppressed people, or you could say it from an oppressed people, or you could even say it from the standpoint of people who are who felt like they were being treated badly maybe or they weren't, because history is full of UM these figures, and you touched on it this once in a lifetime or once in a generation, these people who come along, who can inspire a revolution? Right, So good revolutions and bad revolutions have have happened throughout history. So that was the first thing that kind of struck me is that this is one of those kind of stories that just didn't result in the kind of happy ending or um. You know, if it was if it was put Churchill in there or put Gandhi in there as two coomsa okay, and they were victorious, we would remember the history differently. But he wasn't victorious, right, and so ultimately what he doesn't win. Hear Ben Barnes comment on that. Love it? Sorry, go ahead, Yeah, it's up for debate. Okay, So so you I understand your point. I was making a joy It's a great point. But you that's the thing that struck me was how it's a charismatic it's a charismatic leader who in The second thing that that I kind of saw was you had said that you had this religious movement started as a religious movement and then you know, with his brother, and then he came along and added the political and military component to it. Okay, how often has that happened, even fairly recently? You know, So history has this way of repeating itself and then and then thinking about how you were You had mentioned that they back to the the storytelling in the way that they spoke, and how that was basically borrowed. Here you had people on essentially two opposite sides, right, So the Europeans who were moving in wanted to conquer, and there and their leadership and their you know, the religious leaders, their political leaders were looking at their opposition and copying what they admired that their opposition was able to do. I mean that still happens to every day. Um. You know, one side gets a little bit ahead, and then the other side copies their tactics and they get a little bit ahead or so. So the overarching thing there for me is that I was struck by how easily you could you could take this story and place it in so many other times in history. You just took the punchline from from episode two, James get the memo. That's a great observation because that's what I talked about it with Dave Edmonds, and it's so interesting to hear him describe it, and that when you turn a bunch of people loose in the in the same place and there's there's border conflicts and cultural conflicts like the Native Americans and the the Americans. Basically all the same stuff like always happens different different players, different characters, different little different scenarios, but some it's really similar. So yeah, that's a that's a good that's a good observation. I also thought it was really interesting how the reaction was, Hey, we got to get rid of this modern stuff that's coming in here and go back to our simpler way of life. And that interesting. I mean, so much of history is that conflict between progress and and our roots. It's like we feel it personally, we feel it generationally, we feel it as a country. And and that's always the political tension pretty much anywhere, it's the political tension in this country. Yep. Is that Well, you know, who was the America from fifty years ago? We're not that anymore. And and it's and it's an idealized way also can be. You know, we remember the good things from the past and we forget the whatever, you know, we forget the uh childhood poverty or you know, birth rates or you know whatever it is that we that we kind of gloss over from the past that wasn't as good. What do you think, Dad, I didn't have a thought. Yeah, well I've had a several, but forget them pretty quickly. Remember, you know the point you just made about going back the way we used to be. You know, I thought that was really critical. You see it all through our society today. I want to go back the way we were twenty years ago. I mean, uh, how we teach our kids all this stuff? They had the same issues. And if you go back to the Civil War, you know, wherever you go, I mean, it's we we fight the same demons. And when they when his brother received this vision or whatever it was his dream, he uh, he wouldn't run the country is an evangelist, And they said a lot of the early evangel were Indians like Paul Roberts. Uh. I don't know. That's a that overlap was really interesting and I saw it coming in the book before they actually said it. So in the way the book structured, it talks about Tin Squentawa's Tin Squaws, his vision and the components of the doctrine. And I'm as I'm reading it, I'm thinking, this is a lot there's a lot of overlap with Christian preacher. Yeah, you know, you got you got the serpent's and you got to master whatever they call it. So you got God in safe and and a lot of and you know, we couldn't get into like all the doctrine just because it's just there's only so much. I tried to give people just what they need to understand. But the whole thing was about gaining access back to the Great Spirit, which is essentially the story of Christianity, access to God, you know, And and so that it was the same thing. It was. It was. It was a similar story. And it was so interesting to hear go ahead, go ahead before I forget it. Yeah, uh, he said. The brother said that I've already forgotten it. But the point that I'm driving it. I've talked to Indians, you know, people that I know today, and they say, one great thing that came from all this was Christianity. And um, so there were some good that came. I raised my hand again. I'm getting too old to be on the river. Hey, hey, here you here's here's the point. Here's a point. Now, this isn't it? This is better? Okay, even better when I think about the render, the brotherhood, the bond that we have here we eat out of the same bowl, we eat out of the same with the same spoon, same stuff. Yeah, there you go. Some want the sugar cube, passed the sugar cube. That's all we're gonna start doing now. I thought, I thought that was super interesting that the at the time of the Great Awakening in this country and there were all there was this frontier Christian revival same same time this was happening. Super interesting and um yeah, the the the miracles were very interesting eclips. So when you read it, there's some guys that just straight up say Tin Squattawa knew there was an eclipse coming and it just it just Dom Henry Harrison just like you know, threw him a softball, you know, a slow pitch and just let him knock it out of the park. But I mean, I don't know how how fast does word travel about a solar eclipse? I mean today, even with Instagram, I only know him about a few days before they happened. And he was he said it fifty days before. Um, I don't know. And then but no one can predict an earthquake. No, no, you do you think do you think to come so it was like it happened or do you think he was like lucked out on that one shot. I asked Robert Morgan, Yeah, he said New York Times. Hey, he blamed a lot of the problems not own the white man, but on the way they were living. I mean, that was that was pretty insane. I mean, you know, I mean, they will we do the same thing today, We talked the same way today a lot of times. Yeah, they said that it was a it was a punishment for they believe that what was happening to their culture was was a punishment for them assimilating. Yeah. And the other part of this story, the more I learned about these things is that this all didn't happen real quick like right now, when we tell the story, we say, yeah, they were there, was as civil as they here, and then that civilization was basically moved and removed. This thing took place over the course of several hundred years. And so I was really, I mean almost disappointed in a way when I learned that a lot of the Shawnees rejected. Two comes to and his brother and he just kind of like it really ship j C. Man, I'm not too sure, but I mean he was the one who said a prophet was being set in his hometown. What what what? It's interesting to think about the timeline. So they accepted European settlement four two, Right, took a couple of goes to start. If you want to look at the Vikings settling sooner, that's a different thing. But if you just go with fourteen and two, we've not been the United States of America longer than we have, right, and so like it seems like this very short, compressed thing. But like that's almost three hundred years before it comes it comes along. Yeah, that's a that's a lot of time. That's a lot of time, especially in that they were talking about Christopher Columbus the same way we are. Yeah, I mean the difference free three five years. I mean it's like, yeah, yeah, it's a complicated history and and it it is intimidating to do a series like this because, um, I mean, I'm not trying to say that this is at all inclusive, that this podcast is going to cover everything about which comes to life. That'd be impossible, but man, I wanted to have as much as it it can that makes sense of the time, and to me, like the revelations that I have about these things as I study them is what I put on the podcast, and I thought it was a powerful metaphor the soccer game. It's great. It would be like trying to describe what it would be like for the Native Americans and and with an understanding of their understand ending of of private landownership, which I'm fascinated with. I own piece of land that's not here, small piece of land, and when I go there, that's not where I live, another little property. When I go there, can you drop me a pen? Negative? I'm I'm like, I don't own this place. This is ridiculous, this is this is a joke. I don't own this place. Yeah, I've got the right to be here, nobody else does. I don't own this place for real. Feel like that. When I'm standing there, I'm like, this is not this is this is a very abstract, weird feeling. Identify with those guys, But okay, soccer game. When you understand that a the Native American a lot of the tribes, that their connection to their gods and the spiritual world is very site specific, super good, intel understand their culture, and then for a group to come in that had private land ownership worldview and understanding, it would be like a soccer game forming in your yard around you, and the rules of the game violate your worldview. You don't understand them, you don't know them, but you're in them. You find yourself in the middle of the game, and whoever wins gets the land. Just like flesh this out a little bit further on my point number two, I feel like the rules of the game are additionally convoluted by the fact that the opponent is telling you the rules, changing them. You can pick up the ball. Whistle number two is just way too long. And she just said that we'd all got it, and then they cheated at the soccer game. We all know what you meant. Additionally, you're not really aware that you're going to lose your house at the beginning of the game. It just slowly unfolds that, like, hold up and we're just gonna play for fun. Somebody just moved to back. They're going to give you somewhere else, but you gotta walk there. The most amazing thing to me is what James said, We've got a hero that lost that's just uncalled for and doesn't happen. It doesn't happen, I mean, but I bet, But I think history is probably full of that. Oh that's the thing is history is literate with these people that have done amazing things, but they just didn't win. And whoever one gets to write the history right absolutely and and the yeah, the just don't always win. I mean they don't they don't win. Um. I thought the other thing if I was if I had been asked, why don't you ask me? Did you got to make the podcast? What you asked me? What did you think? What did you what was your favorite part with thanks for asking? That's great to me. One of the most interesting parts was about the influence of Native American culture on early American identity. I think that's way underrated. And I'll walk you even more through what I said on the podcast, so the the and I hope it made sense. I think the difference between Europeans today, like you just go get a random sampling of a guy from Europe and you put him with a random guy from I don't know, just a state in this country, and it would help if that guy was somehow connected to the land in a way, not somebody from urban America. I think the difference between those guys, which would be a vast difference if you could really trace it back if you could do a ancestry and me dot com with culture and figure out kind of where they came from. I think the difference is the Native American influence that impacts us to this day. Because when you think, because the Daniel Boone was the first real American non governmental hero, America's first heroes were like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and these kind of guys. The only guy's written more about than Boone are those two in American history, American literature, the only two guys written more about and boot So Boone in a philosophical level, taught us how to be an American. He was an archetype. And Daniel Boone was tried for treason Josh because they thought he was an Indian. He he he went and lived with them, became adopted with them, new new um, the Shawnee language, knew how to trade. He would come back and they wouldn't trust him, like, dude, you can't trust that guy. He's been with, you know, these domestic terrorists. And he was so influenced by the Native American and all these frontiersmen were I mean, they taught us how to live in this place. I think that's fascinating. I thought racin and uh uh point of order real quick. Uh my dad, who is wonderful and listens to the podcast religiously. Chris Neil called on the way down here and said, Chris, he said, is Clay sure that all of his descendants are quite Europeans? I said, most of them? You're a descendants. You did say that. I paid attention. Yeah, to be very sure about this. Actually you should be extremely sure. I didn't get it the first time he said it. He caught it. I caught it. I don't. Are you sure all of your miscendants are all your descendants? I listened to the podcast twice yesterday, missed it and missed it when he first said, yeah, I love it. It's like being on LinkedIn. But when you're on LinkedIn you make a grammatical air your hammer on Instagram, they'll let it slide. Instagram doesn't even let you edit some of your things to fix those grammatical or tell Chris, I'm sorry I did. I was listen the Meat Eater podcast with what they do the game the Game show one, and Spencer new Heart said pronunciation. He did, Oh, no, it's viral. It's spreading yesterday pronunciation. He did. He did. He said it in the podcast, and when I was listening to it, I paused and said, is that how do you say that? Surely that can't be right, your total influencer. Well, well, so what's coming up on episode number two? Clay second half of it comes to his life Okay, second half of his life. So we really haven't even got into the to what he he did, which is he was highly involved in the War of eighteen twelve, sided with the British. Okay, so he's totally totally in with the British. So now a fascinating guy. And uh, we didn't even talk about him being a hunter. That was the main thing he was known as as a young man, was a great hunter. Oh yeah, none of us picked up on that forty deer. It's funny, that's the part that Clay really questioned the whole story. I know something about hunting, but it's possible. But no, when I'm reading all these things, especially when there's a guy that far back, a lot of the questions I have for some of these historians, and I've learned a lot from Robert Morrigan and from some of these other guys, it's like, how do we know that? How do we know he did that? Because I mean, I I hope he did that, but I want to know how. And a lot of them when they come from multiple verses, that's good. But some things are just like you trace it back and you'd be like, yeah, somebody wrote that in their journal and they never even met the guy. Yeah. And I think that that even if it was half that, if it was a tenth of that, you would be a great hunter. Like if I killed four days four deer in three days, somebody would be like, dude, that Isaac guy knows how to he's getting it done. Yeah, So I think the point stands. Yeah, and he was. He was known as a great hunter in the in the Shawnee Nation, and that was a major deal for them. That was like that was being that was like being a NBA athlete. Speaking of hunting, What's coming up on March four, Black Bear Bonanza nine am to five pm at the Benton County Quail Barn in Bentonville, Arkansas. YEP. Get your tickets ten dollars each. The website back Country hunters dot org. Go to the events page if you have if you have a protest you want to launch, you might try that. An audio based protest. You might try that during the Bear Grease render recording. What do you mean. I'm just I'm just trying to incentivize some people to come out that might not Oh, I think they might start like chanting, could be talk. I was thinking, if you have an olhood, you should be practicing, and it doesn't matter where you're I think we're going to get to the point where we're going to have to have like qualifying role. We might because it would be if it was like an hour and a half of people getting up there now hooting, you'd get tired of it. But you have to have how many competitors did you have last year? I mean, like probably forty. I think I think we had about forty people. It was a lot in Arkansas. We're good. I'm just gonna say that. I'm not saying they were all from Arkansas, but we've been to other places. But you do get that, you do get the guys that probably have never out hooded much. They just want to get up there and have a fun time, which is cool. Ye, what are the chances of me doing all right with a trench coat and a real owl. Man, if I get up there with an owl under your trench coat and make it hoot, I say, let him go. Mm hmm. That's yeah. Bonus points, bonus points for execution, right, yeah, will be there, so just where. That's what you bar dowl y. I wish I had a bar dol. I know you do, I know you do. Well, Hey, this has been great, this has been great. This is uh, this is a long this is a long time coming for me. I've been planning this for a long time. It's come, so it's true. Yeah, yeah, all right, good