Matt Schnelle from Sydney Water speaks to Jo Taranto about critical infrastructure resilience for Sydney's water supply.

Matt Schnelle from Sydney Water speaks to Jo Taranto about critical infrastructure resilience for Sydney's water supply.

The Australian Water Association's Podcast Series brings you water industry information, projects and research from professionals working in Australia and abroad.

The Australian Water Association's Podcast Series brings you water industry information, projects and research from professionals working in Australia and abroad.

Australian Water Association Podcast Series Archive

The Australian Water Association's Podcast Series brings you water industry information, projects and research from professionals working in Australia and abroad. Recorded during Ozwater'23, Jo Taranto interviews key water professionals on their career, achievements, promising research and more.

Proudly sponsored by Schneider Electric

The Australian Water Association's Podcast Series brings you water industry information, projects and research from professionals working in Australia and abroad. Recorded during Ozwater'23, Jo Taranto interviews key water professionals on their career, achievements, promising research and more.
Proudly sponsored by <a href="https://www.se.com/ww/en/">Schneider Electric</a>

Australian Water Association Podcast - United by Water

Australian Water Association Podcast

Matt Schnelle on critical infrastructure resilience

In the latest episode of our United by Water podcast, host Jo Taranto sits down with Paul Higham (Head of Western Sydney Development at Sydney Water) to discuss Sydney Water's plans for a sustainable water future amidst a changing climate, a growing population, the ever-expanding Western Sydney region and incorporation of First Nations science.

Paul has spent almost 14 years working at Sydney Water across many leadership roles involving strategy, corporate social responsibility, assets, infrastructure and liveable city solutions. Paul joined Jo Taranto at Ozwater'23 last year to discuss the future of Sydney and water.

Paul, you've worked with Sydney Water for over 13 years, you must have seen some big changes in that time?

Certainly, the industry and the city has evolved a great deal over that period. I came over from the United Kingdom 13 years ago, Sydney water was ready for change and the city was evolving and the last 10 years or so have been exciting about how the new city will take shape out to 2050 and that's what the Greater Sydney water strategy is all about.



So, we're here to talk a little bit about that strategy for those who don't know anything about it, it's a New South Wales Government document, is that how it works?

Yes, it’s a document that's been released by NSW Government that looks at the long-term view and long-term vision of what water will be like for Greater Sydney. It's a 20-year plan with a 40-year vision and it's been done in partnership various agencies including the State Government, Department of Planning and Environment, Water NSW etc.



It’s not just thinking about a changing city, it's also thinking about a changing climate, is that right?

Correct, only do we live on the hottest, driest continent in the world, but we are now seeing the impacts of climate change, droughts and floods, our environment is changing around us. Our city is growing and the (Greater Sydney) population will grow [from] five million people to an excess of 7 million people and we will progressively move west as the city grows and expands.



How do you then bring a community on board when you're talking about a strategy and a changing approach potentially from a utility? You've got your existing communities, but you've got a whole bunch of new parts of the city, how do you engage and bring your community with you?

We’ve done an awful lot of work; we historically always have engaged with our communities. We’ve been going through deliberative forums and very broad engagement around what our customers expect and value from us as an organisation and as an industry. There’s a lot of conversations around not just the water supply that we get from the tap every day, 365 days a year, but what they expect from healthy waterways or liveability and greening. The growth of climate change is tricky because what are customers’ expectations around the role that we play in responding to and managing the consequences of climate change?

That rich feedback is coming out of very thorough engagement with our communities, and I assure you they're not shy of telling you what they want and what they aspire. What we've got to understand are what are the trade-offs to be able to achieve that? For our customers, long-term affordability is going to be key.



We already know that climate change is here. What does it look like when you are talking about water resilience and water supply and what is Sydney Water doing to respond?

Traditionally, our city has relied upon rainfall dependent sources, 85% of our water comes from Warragamba and other dams around the city. The desalination plant can also provide up to 15% of the city's water demand but as climate evolves and as climate changes, the reliance on rainfall is going to be harder.

The idea of building more rainfall dependent sources in a drought doesn't make logical sense in the long-term, particularly if the climate is going to get drier and hotter, so really thinking about how we plan for those rainfall independent water suppliers and considering all options like Purified Recycled Water (PRW) and engaging with the community on this as a viable solution. Is it something that they would accept in the long run? It’s practiced in 35 cities across the world.



Sydney Water has adopted a Net-Zero emissions target for 2030 there’s an ambitious circular economy program as well, what does it mean for Sydney water and its existing assets?

When we think about climate change, we think about two aspects.
Adaptation - how do we adapt our existing infrastructure to respond to what other climate change will bring?
Abatement is what is our role in actually supporting the change of managing the climate change as it evolves? When we talk about abatement, we're thinking about net carbon zero and what activities can we undertake to reduce our carbon emissions as an organisation.

We’re servicing a population of five million people with water every day and it’s quite an energy intensive operation, we must do the pumping, collection, sourcing, distribution and implement renewable energy sources including solar, wind, hydro and optimise these technologies.



Increasingly, the industry is acknowledging and respecting First Nation's connection to water so how is Sydney Water approaching this when it comes to planning?

We start with the position that our First Nations communities have been sustainably managing land and water for years and beyond. Through our Reconciliation Action Plan (RAP), we’re thinking about how we can bring that Indigenous knowledge into our planning, program, and processes. We must start internally initially with cultural awareness and getting people aware of what have the First Nations communities done and how do they think about the value of water?

We have close engagement with local Aboriginal land councils and language groups, and we asked them to participate in our asset planning to think about the cultural aspects to and the historic connection with Sydney. We need to make sure that we're considering the needs of those communities. We can learn from their experiences and embedding it in how we plan our infrastructure for the growing city is critical for the future it really does create positive value for us.



Season 7, United by Water is proudly sponsored by Schneider Electric.

In the latest episode of our United by Water podcast, host Jo Taranto sits down with Paul Higham (Head of Western Sydney Development at Sydney Water) to discuss Sydney Water's plans for a sustainable water future amidst a changing climate, a growing population, the ever-expanding Western Sydney region and incorporation of First Nations science.
Paul has spent almost 14 years working at Sydney Water across many leadership roles involving strategy, corporate social responsibility, assets, infrastructure and liveable city solutions. Paul joined Jo Taranto at Ozwater'23 last year to discuss the future of Sydney and water.
Paul, you've worked with Sydney Water for over 13 years, you must have seen some big changes in that time?
Certainly, the industry and the city has evolved a great deal over that period. I came over from the United Kingdom 13 years ago, Sydney water was ready for change and the city was evolving and the last 10 years or so have been exciting about how the new city will take shape out to 2050 and that's what the Greater Sydney water strategy is all about. 
So, we're here to talk a little bit about that strategy for those who don't know anything about it, it's a New South Wales Government document, is that how it works?
Yes, it’s a document that's been released by NSW Government that looks at the long-term view and long-term vision of what water will be like for Greater Sydney. It's a 20-year plan with a 40-year vision and it's been done in partnership various agencies including the State Government, Department of Planning and Environment, Water NSW etc.
 
It’s not just thinking about a changing city, it's also thinking about a changing climate, is that right?
Correct, only do we live on the hottest, driest continent in the world, but we are now seeing the impacts of climate change, droughts and floods, our environment is changing around us. Our city is growing and the (Greater Sydney) population will grow [from] five million people to an excess of 7 million people and we will progressively move west as the city grows and expands.
 
How do you then bring a community on board when you're talking about a strategy and a changing approach potentially from a utility? You've got your existing communities, but you've got a whole bunch of new parts of the city, how do you engage and bring your community with you?
We’ve done an awful lot of work; we historically always have engaged with our communities. We’ve been going through deliberative forums and very broad engagement around what our customers expect and value from us as an organisation and as an industry. There’s a lot of conversations around not just the water supply that we get from the tap every day, 365 days a year, but what they expect from healthy waterways or liveability and greening. The growth of climate change is tricky because what are customers’ expectations around the role that we play in responding to and managing the consequences of climate change?
That rich feedback is coming out of very thorough engagement with our communities, and I assure you they're not shy of telling you what they want and what they aspire. What we've got to understand are what are the trade-offs to be able to achieve that? For our customers, long-term affordability is going to be key.
 
We already know that climate change is here. What does it look like when you are talking about water resilience and water supply and what is Sydney Water doing to respond?
Traditionally, our city has relied upon rainfall dependent sources, 85% of our water comes from Warragamba and other dams around the city. The desalination plant can also provide up to 15% of the city's water demand but as climate evolves and as climate changes, the reliance on rainfall is going to be harder.
The idea of building more rainfall dependent sources in a drought doesn't make logical sense in the long-term, particularly if the climate is going to get drier and hotter, so really thinking about how we plan for those rainfall independent water suppliers and considering all options like Purified Recycled Water (PRW) and engaging with the community on this as a viable solution. Is it something that they would accept in the long run? It’s practiced in 35 cities across the world.
 
Sydney Water has adopted a Net-Zero emissions target for 2030 there’s an ambitious circular economy program as well, what does it mean for Sydney water and its existing assets?
When we think about climate change, we think about two aspects.
<ol>
<li>Adaptation - how do we adapt our existing infrastructure to respond to what other climate change will bring?</li>
<li>Abatement is what is our role in actually supporting the change of managing the climate change as it evolves? When we talk about abatement, we're thinking about net carbon zero and what activities can we undertake to reduce our carbon emissions as an organisation.</li>
</ol>
We’re servicing a population of five million people with water every day and it’s quite an energy intensive operation, we must do the pumping, collection, sourcing, distribution and implement renewable energy sources including solar, wind, hydro and optimise these technologies.
 
Increasingly, the industry is acknowledging and respecting First Nation's connection to water so how is Sydney Water approaching this when it comes to planning?
We start with the position that our First Nations communities have been sustainably managing land and water for years and beyond. Through our Reconciliation Action Plan (RAP), we’re thinking about how we can bring that Indigenous knowledge into our planning, program, and processes. We must start internally initially with cultural awareness and getting people aware of what have the First Nations communities done and how do they think about the value of water?
We have close engagement with local Aboriginal land councils and language groups, and we asked them to participate in our asset planning to think about the cultural aspects to and the historic connection with Sydney. We need to make sure that we're considering the needs of those communities. We can learn from their experiences and embedding it in how we plan our infrastructure for the growing city is critical for the future it really does create positive value for us.
 
Season 7, United by Water is proudly sponsored by <a href="https://www.se.com/ww/en/">Schneider Electric</a>.

Beyond 2030 with Paul Higham of Sydney Water

In the latest episode of our United by Water podcast, host Jo Taranto sits down with Judy Arasanilai (Water Quality Systems Officer at MidCoast Council) to discuss Water Quality in MidCoast Drinking Water Catchments - Impacts of Drought, Bushfires, Rain & Recovery.

The MidCoast area suffered a three-pronged climate attack with droughts, severe rainfall and bushfire affecting the local communities and impacting water sources including catchment and groundwater. Judy Arasanilai completed research on local catchments to better improve water conditions while abiding by the Australian Drinking Water Guidelines.



There’s been a situation where several severe weather events have placed the drinking water in your area under significant strain can you tell us a little bit about what happened over the period?

From when we had the first drought in the MidCoast Council area and then it was the hottest and driest year on record for us and all our drinking water catchments and the rivers ceased to flow by December. We also had the bush fires from October to December which was the worst bushfire wise in in Australia in terms of deaths and area affected.

All our catchments were affected by the bush fires and our biggest catchment is the Manning catchment which supplies our biggest customers. We have been using extensive groundwater supplies not only for drinking purposes but also to provide water for firefighting effects as well so when the rains were predicted for January, we needed the water.



How did you choose the testing sites?

We knew that two of our water supply drinking water catchments were affected by the fires, the Manning and the Crawford catchments and the Manning catchment is the biggest catchment and made up of several sub catchments.

The fires and the drought also affected vegetation, the soils become parched and then the fires came in and burned all the trays so now the catchments become even more erodible.

We also have metals and firefighting chemicals like fire suppression come into the waterways so if we extract the water, it presents challenges to our water treatment plants and processes. This is particularly crucial as when we supply the water to the customers, we have to comply to the Australian Drinking Water Guidelines so that we don't adversely affect the customers health.

We needed to go back and assess the risk and tweak our treatment processes so that’s why we needed to do the study, to find out whether we can mitigate these risks or whether we needed to go back and look for another water source. These three weather events happening in a row are a unique opportunity for us to study and plan for the future.



When you were doing the testing, did you expect the results to have a different combination of impacts than if you just had a drought, or fire, or heavy rain as opposed to almost all three in a tight succession, did that really skew what you saw?

Yes, the drought parched all the vegetation and soil as I mentioned prior so the water wouldn't flow through the soil, and it made the soil erodible. The bush fires led to all the ash and the vegetation is now gone because the vegetation would have held the soil together and filtered some of the contaminants but now the vegetation is gone as well and then the high intensity rain would have washed all these contaminants into the water. All three events had a devastating effect compared to if it was just individualised.



Was there anything surprising in the results?

With the Barrington catchment, we saw recovery at the second phase of our research, however surprisingly the Barrington and the Crawford River catchments during the initial results had peaks of nutrients and organic carbon which basically comes from the burnt vegetation. During the subsequent rainfall events, we saw a decrease in those contaminants, we still had a peak but not as high as the initial peak. We expected that everything would be washed into the sea after this rain event and the vegetation would regrow naturally but when we looked at the Barrington and the Crawford catchments, the peaks were different for each so that was the surprise but also, we didn’t see any metals in the water.

After we did the initial test, we optimised our water treatment processes and we increased our monitoring. We have an extensive network of reservoir and reticulation pipes so it's a big system, so we had to go in and put chlorine tablets in the reservoir. By doing this, we were able to supply safe drinking water to all the communities.



How will your findings help MidCoast Council plan for future water management strategies?
We can see that these events are going to become more frequent because our region is getting dryer and hotter while simultaneously, the rainfall events are becoming more intense and unpredictable as well. These events are going to be more frequent so what we've done is we’ve created a base for future work and identified the gaps as well so currently our Council is in the middle of doing integrated water cycle management strategy which means we look at the whole of the water supply system.

It’s a strategic plan so the Council are looking at where they may need extra dams or whether they need extra groundwater supplies. We've got all this information for the planning team who can use this information and plan accordingly. We've also got a water resilience team, so they are looking at making the systems more drought resilient because we also must consider the community.

The Council also have a Catchment Manning River Estuary and catchment management plan so that the communities receive good drinking water sources and they have also got our information, research, and results to utilise to make the drinking water catchments safer.



Season 7, United by Water is proudly sponsored by Schneider Electric.

In the latest episode of our United by Water podcast, host Jo Taranto sits down with Judy Arasanilai (Water Quality Systems Officer at MidCoast Council) to discuss Water Quality in MidCoast Drinking Water Catchments - Impacts of Drought, Bushfires, Rain &amp; Recovery.
The MidCoast area suffered a three-pronged climate attack with droughts, severe rainfall and bushfire affecting the local communities and impacting water sources including catchment and groundwater. Judy Arasanilai completed research on local catchments to better improve water conditions while abiding by the Australian Drinking Water Guidelines.
 
There’s been a situation where several severe weather events have placed the drinking water in your area under significant strain can you tell us a little bit about what happened over the period?
From when we had the first drought in the MidCoast Council area and then it was the hottest and driest year on record for us and all our drinking water catchments and the rivers ceased to flow by December. We also had the bush fires from October to December which was the worst bushfire wise in in Australia in terms of deaths and area affected.
All our catchments were affected by the bush fires and our biggest catchment is the Manning catchment which supplies our biggest customers. We have been using extensive groundwater supplies not only for drinking purposes but also to provide water for firefighting effects as well so when the rains were predicted for January, we needed the water.
 
How did you choose the testing sites?
We knew that two of our water supply drinking water catchments were affected by the fires, the Manning and the Crawford catchments and the Manning catchment is the biggest catchment and made up of several sub catchments.
The fires and the drought also affected vegetation, the soils become parched and then the fires came in and burned all the trays so now the catchments become even more erodible.
We also have metals and firefighting chemicals like fire suppression come into the waterways so if we extract the water, it presents challenges to our water treatment plants and processes. This is particularly crucial as when we supply the water to the customers, we have to comply to the Australian Drinking Water Guidelines so that we don't adversely affect the customers health.
We needed to go back and assess the risk and tweak our treatment processes so that’s why we needed to do the study, to find out whether we can mitigate these risks or whether we needed to go back and look for another water source. These three weather events happening in a row are a unique opportunity for us to study and plan for the future.
 
When you were doing the testing, did you expect the results to have a different combination of impacts than if you just had a drought, or fire, or heavy rain as opposed to almost all three in a tight succession, did that really skew what you saw?
Yes, the drought parched all the vegetation and soil as I mentioned prior so the water wouldn't flow through the soil, and it made the soil erodible. The bush fires led to all the ash and the vegetation is now gone because the vegetation would have held the soil together and filtered some of the contaminants but now the vegetation is gone as well and then the high intensity rain would have washed all these contaminants into the water. All three events had a devastating effect compared to if it was just individualised.
 
Was there anything surprising in the results?
With the Barrington catchment, we saw recovery at the second phase of our research, however surprisingly the Barrington and the Crawford River catchments during the initial results had peaks of nutrients and organic carbon which basically comes from the burnt vegetation. During the subsequent rainfall events, we saw a decrease in those contaminants, we still had a peak but not as high as the initial peak. We expected that everything would be washed into the sea after this rain event and the vegetation would regrow naturally but when we looked at the Barrington and the Crawford catchments, the peaks were different for each so that was the surprise but also, we didn’t see any metals in the water.
After we did the initial test, we optimised our water treatment processes and we increased our monitoring. We have an extensive network of reservoir and reticulation pipes so it's a big system, so we had to go in and put chlorine tablets in the reservoir. By doing this, we were able to supply safe drinking water to all the communities.
 
How will your findings help MidCoast Council plan for future water management strategies? We can see that these events are going to become more frequent because our region is getting dryer and hotter while simultaneously, the rainfall events are becoming more intense and unpredictable as well. These events are going to be more frequent so what we've done is we’ve created a base for future work and identified the gaps as well so currently our Council is in the middle of doing integrated water cycle management strategy which means we look at the whole of the water supply system.
It’s a strategic plan so the Council are looking at where they may need extra dams or whether they need extra groundwater supplies. We've got all this information for the planning team who can use this information and plan accordingly. We've also got a water resilience team, so they are looking at making the systems more drought resilient because we also must consider the community.
The Council also have a Catchment Manning River Estuary and catchment management plan so that the communities receive good drinking water sources and they have also got our information, research, and results to utilise to make the drinking water catchments safer.
 
Season 7, United by Water is proudly sponsored by <a href="https://www.se.com/ww/en/">Schneider Electric</a>.

Water Quality in MidCoast Drinking Water Catchments - Impacts of Drought, Bushfires, Rain & Recovery

In the latest episode of our United by Water podcast, host Jo Taranto sits down with Alicia Fry (Marketing and Business Communications Team Leader at Hunter Water) to discuss the 2023 Student Water Prize Paper ‘Water itself is life: how to encourage conversations through the power of Indigenous art’

Hunter Water, like many utilities have branding and there comes a time where it’s time to refresh, try out new avenues and also come together to include social value in the messaging of the brand.

Tell us about the branding opportunity and why that changed when you started thinking about the Reconciliation Action Plan?
We had the opportunity to rebrand our water bottle refill stations that we use at community events so something that's out and about in the community, they just needed a freshened up look, something a bit more modern and we realised that it was an opportunity instead of just putting a new fresh brand on it, to actually engage with an Indigenous artist and get them to help us create a new piece of art that we could use on that.

Part of that process is utilising their knowledge to tell a story about water so that we could then use it as a talking piece at events and a way to engage further with our community about water conservation and connection to Country.



Did you have a clear idea of what you wanted and how did that change when you first met Tyson?
I didn't have a clear idea of what I wanted, all I knew was that it needed to be told in the right way, a  personal way from an indigenous artist that reflected our connection with water. I actually met Tyson on a day off on the weekend at a distillery in Newcastle, he was painting a surfboard as part of the festival and he was just chatting to people while he was painting so I approached him afterwards and he was definitely interested in helping us with the project and then just sort of after having a few chats with him I realised that it was going to be more than just the piece of art for the project and that it was a real opportunity to create a relationship and I saw the value in sharing that conversation.

What were the results?
We created a video of Tyson painting and while he's painting, you get to know his story and his experience and his messages about water. We shared the video to our social media pages and in Reconciliation Week. The response has been phenomenal. It’s our most engaged piece we’ve had on social media and the biggest reach for an organic post ever. The best part about the reach was that the indigenous community in our area had a unanimously positive sentiment as well, everybody felt really proud to be part of that and I guess when people are at events and they see the water stations, there is a sense of recognition of the artwork.

You said one of the most unexpected outcomes of this project was the effect that it had on staff at Hunter water? Tell us more
We engaged Tyson to work with our staff, we had our celebration event and Tyson did a live installation at that event. He painted a water tank and anybody that was at the event was able to come and help paint as well so while they were painting, they were having a chat to Tyson, hearing his stories and understanding his point of view and so it was really insightful for staff to be able to have those conversations instead of just seeing it on the video or the end product and Tyson actually told me a beautiful story that touched him in a huge way was that one of our executive managers had come up to him and thanked him for his words and his participation in the video and she mentioned that one time previously, she was going into a board meeting and she was nervous. She watched Tyson's video just before she went into the board meeting and it grounded her. I love the circle of that inspiration.

What did you learn from this process? 
The biggest learning was the value of having those conversations rather than procuring somebody for a specific purpose. I know that I've developed a great relationship with Tyson and I hope because we've had that connection and we've continued those conversations, it's not just a business transaction. Moving forward, we're able to take those learnings and look at how we can sort of change how we do things in the future as well as how we engage Indigenous organisations. Just have an open mind about it and have those conversations.



Season 7, United by Water is proudly sponsored by Schneider Electric.

In the latest episode of our United by Water podcast, host Jo Taranto sits down with Alicia Fry (Marketing and Business Communications Team Leader at Hunter Water) to discuss the 2023 Student Water Prize Paper ‘Water itself is life: how to encourage conversations through the power of Indigenous art’
Hunter Water, like many utilities have branding and there comes a time where it’s time to refresh, try out new avenues and also come together to include social value in the messaging of the brand.
Tell us about the branding opportunity and why that changed when you started thinking about the Reconciliation Action Plan? We had the opportunity to rebrand our water bottle refill stations that we use at community events so something that's out and about in the community, they just needed a freshened up look, something a bit more modern and we realised that it was an opportunity instead of just putting a new fresh brand on it, to actually engage with an Indigenous artist and get them to help us create a new piece of art that we could use on that.
Part of that process is utilising their knowledge to tell a story about water so that we could then use it as a talking piece at events and a way to engage further with our community about water conservation and connection to Country. 
Did you have a clear idea of what you wanted and how did that change when you first met Tyson? I didn't have a clear idea of what I wanted, all I knew was that it needed to be told in the right way, a  personal way from an indigenous artist that reflected our connection with water. I actually met Tyson on a day off on the weekend at a distillery in Newcastle, he was painting a surfboard as part of the festival and he was just chatting to people while he was painting so I approached him afterwards and he was definitely interested in helping us with the project and then just sort of after having a few chats with him I realised that it was going to be more than just the piece of art for the project and that it was a real opportunity to create a relationship and I saw the value in sharing that conversation.
What were the results? We created a video of Tyson painting and while he's painting, you get to know his story and his experience and his messages about water. We shared the video to our social media pages and in Reconciliation Week. The response has been phenomenal. It’s our most engaged piece we’ve had on social media and the biggest reach for an organic post ever. The best part about the reach was that the indigenous community in our area had a unanimously positive sentiment as well, everybody felt really proud to be part of that and I guess when people are at events and they see the water stations, there is a sense of recognition of the artwork.
You said one of the most unexpected outcomes of this project was the effect that it had on staff at Hunter water? Tell us more We engaged Tyson to work with our staff, we had our celebration event and Tyson did a live installation at that event. He painted a water tank and anybody that was at the event was able to come and help paint as well so while they were painting, they were having a chat to Tyson, hearing his stories and understanding his point of view and so it was really insightful for staff to be able to have those conversations instead of just seeing it on the video or the end product and Tyson actually told me a beautiful story that touched him in a huge way was that one of our executive managers had come up to him and thanked him for his words and his participation in the video and she mentioned that one time previously, she was going into a board meeting and she was nervous. She watched Tyson's video just before she went into the board meeting and it grounded her. I love the circle of that inspiration.
What did you learn from this process? The biggest learning was the value of having those conversations rather than procuring somebody for a specific purpose. I know that I've developed a great relationship with Tyson and I hope because we've had that connection and we've continued those conversations, it's not just a business transaction. Moving forward, we're able to take those learnings and look at how we can sort of change how we do things in the future as well as how we engage Indigenous organisations. Just have an open mind about it and have those conversations.
 
Season 7, United by Water is proudly sponsored by <a href="https://www.se.com/ww/en/">Schneider Electric</a>.

Matt Schnelle on critical infrastructure resilience

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