Prof. Alfred W. McCoy from the University of Wisconsin-Madison has recently published a book entitled “To Govern the Globe: World Orders and Catastrophic Change”. It is a highly readable, sweeping historical narrative. But within it pages lurks a stark warning that it is out of disasters that new world orders are born and that we are on the cusp of such a change. Join John as he speaks with Prof. McCoy on international order, disorder and rebirth and what might lie ahead for us all in this fascinating episode of The Focus.