Are You A Charlotte?Should She Have Slept With Big On The First Date?? With Christine Taylor... (S1 E6 "Secret Sex")
Christine Taylor joins Kristin as they analyze Carrie and Big's behavior as they have their first official date. Similar to the chinese restaurant that Big took Carrie to, Ben Stiller took Christine to the opposite of a hot spot on their first date, find out why!
Kristin and Christine have a hot take on if you should go digging through drawers and closets of your new boyfriend.
Plus, ICYMI Christine Taylor and Ben Stiller's daughter Ella will guest star on And Just Like That this season!
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte?
Hello everybody. Today we are going.
To rewatch episode one oh six is called Secret Sex, and I have the incredible Christine Taylor joining me. She is an actress and you may know her as Marsha Brady in the Brady Bunch movies, or from her roles in The Craft or The Wedding Singer, Zoolander, Dodgeball, Arrested Development, and most recently, the Apple TV series High Desert. She also had a memorable guest appearance on Curbew Enthusiasm and Friends and Seinfeld Like Myself. She and her husband Ben Stiller are the parents of two amazing young adults, Ella and Quinn, and she co hosts with David Lasher her own podcast called Hey Dude. The nineties called Love Her So Much.
Here's Christine.
Hi, Hey, how are you so good? Thank you for having me?
Well, thank you for doing this?
Are you kidding? You're so perfect? I can't wait to hear your thoughts.
So excited.
Thank you? All right? Can I just start off?
I love to ask people like when did you start watching the show? What were your memories of like the beginning of the show. Obviously we've both been around a long time.
Yeah. Yeah, And I was living in la at the time, and I don't It's funny because I started listening to the podcast, I like picked a few episodes of which now I'm going to go back and listen all the way through because now I'm slightly obsessed, and restarted the show. But I, like everybody else, like I did not audition for it. I was living in La.
Oh.
I heard you tell the story of the part you played on melrose Place, and I remember auditioning for that part.
No way you audition from brook Oh.
I mean, I know, like I sort of like that's my like claim to fame is that I feel like I auditioned for every Aaron Spelling show and never got cast, never cast.
I'm sorry. It was an experience. It was an experience. It worked out, it worked out fine, but it was.
Those were those coveted jobs like they wore the nineties and they were whatever, like they were those I just remember those casting calls. But Sex and the City I never got an audition for, but watched it in real time when it came out and just remember thinking, like, never having lived in New York before either, thinking like New York City seemed so exciting, and it just seems so lamorous and spectacular and it's so edgy, and but yet I always related to Charlotte, like I felt, I mean, we'll get into whatever you want to.
Be Okay, Okay, I'll ask at the end. But I love that. Always loved to hear that.
I was just a fan. I just watched the show good time and had not gone back to watch it. I've not been caught up two and just like that, I haven't watched both of the movies, but I.
Watched the entire Girl You're gonna have to I don't even know if we should get into this now.
But Christine's daughter, Ella, who's so incredible just as a person. Congratulations, you have raised an incredible human, but also so incredibly talented.
She is going to be on and just like that with us, she.
Was such a joy, dream, it was dream. It was so great, just the greatest days working with you and Cynthia and everybody, like she got a chance to work with everybody.
Let me tell you, we're in the scene together where literally every person shows up and Ella was just such a truper I'm not going to share any details. I don't want to give anything away, but we really had fun, and I mean, she's just so funny and interesting. Anyway, I'm off on Ella, But isn't.
It weird that you have a grown up like you've raised a grown up?
It's crazy, Like it's really crazy. And I also feel like sometimes she's more grown up, more mature, more self assured and self aware than I still am, you know what I mean? Like you, she grew up in a time and in a world as a young woman who has a just a different level of sort of knowing who she is and what she wants and can articulate it and state it and be okay with that, whether it.
Is amazing or not.
Absolutely, that's not who I ever was. That's not me either. I strive to be that I still sure.
Yeah, but it's different times, right.
I Mean, that's also interesting about rewatching the show because it was you were in the first season, which aired in nineteen ninety eight. I believe we filmed it and it aired in nineteen ninety eight, except for the pilot, which was nineteen ninety seven. And sometimes when I'm watching it, like for instance, this episode where she's going to go on her big date, which we'll get to in a second, and we all come over to give her moral support.
It's almost like we're in college, like, even though at the time kind of part of what I.
Remember being so excited about, other than the fact that we were actually filming in New York, which was a dream come true, and also that there were four women leads, which was also kind of like unheard of and shocking.
Oh my god, I also was.
So excited that we were characters who were in our thirties and it would mean that I could stop lying as an actress because remember.
When you went to audition, you would just say whatever age the.
Part was, yeah, And that was a time where they could actually ask you your age, which is a no no.
Right, which is crazy and so crazy, right, Like I AMDB would like just say your age, like you had to say your age all the time, and you would just say, like whatever age or maybe one year older or younger.
Exactly, yeah, yea yeah.
So for me, I was like, oh, thank god, I don't have to lie about my age now.
What a relief. Wow.
But we were, like, you know, shockingly in our thirties. Oh my god, God, you know, having sex and relationships like so shocking, right, which is funny now to look at because there's such an innocence in a way. I mean there's also like really kind of some kind of shocking things, but also just our emotional way that we are in the show. I think it's so sweet in some ways and ways I don't remember.
Yes, there's like a simplicity to it because and also I think because you for as a sort of like a group like a past you know, these these doing it together. It was like we as an audience were being sort of let in on these secrets that as women we knew. We had all these conversations with our girlfriends, and it was now happening on television, which at the time was those kinds of things, you know, going back to like melrose Place, or it was in the more soapy version, right, a lot of that stuff was happening, but it wasn't like the real version where talking about securities and you know and like oh that's too much or that's not enough, or here are the rule, like you're rules in this episode right.
Right, Oh my gosh, the rules kill me.
The rules are so funny, and I think it's so interesting, like it would be really fun one day to have you and Ella on at the same time. I want to do like a multi generational conversation because I am so curious how they feel now whether these things are still true, like, for instance, what we're what we're basically alluding to. So this is the episode where Carrie goes on her first official date with Big, which is really the centerpiece of the whole episode. She wears this incredible dress, which we'll get to in a minute, but we come over Samantha, Miranda and Samantha come over for emotional support before she goes, which is so kind of cute and adorable, and she's wearing this incredible dress and we kind of like hyper up a bit, and then Charlotte's very concerned because the dress is like kind of a naked type dress.
You first of all, your reaction just when she walks in. And I watched the episode twice because I watched it the first ell. As soon as I told Ella I was doing this podcast, she was like, I have to watch the episode with you because I watched the series three years ago and I haven't rewatched it in three years. She was like, so I need to rewatch it again anyway, so you have to save that episode. So I watched it for you for like, I started the show again and then she and last night got together, ordered some food and watched like I think three of them or something like that, and we still episode, so I wouldn't like get.
To a heavy yes, I understand, yes.
I you're so. I was just taking it all in and then I rewatched it again this morning and your reaction everyone else is like dying over how amazing she looks in the dress, and Charlotte's reaction it's like, I know, oh my god, are you seeing.
The faces I make? Oh my god, the faces.
Naming it the naked dress, which is I.
Know it and it kind of is.
And then Miranda says it's tits on toast, which is also kind of hysterical and pretty accurate.
But then it's kind of adorable.
What everybody says and interesting and still kind of I'm sure that this is different, but Charlotte says, this really cracks me up. Charlotte says because the number, she basically says, you.
Can't have sex with them tonight. Do not have sex on the first date because you.
Want you want this to be taken.
Seriously, right, I wanted to work out I'm in I'm in the big camp right from the get go, though, I mean, when I'm watching it back, I'm.
Like why, but whatever, that's a different conversation.
So I say, because the number of dates that you wait to have sex with a man is directly proportional to your age.
What what am I talking about?
I was trying to figure out what that even means.
And also like does it get smaller as you get older or or does it grow as you can I'm really confused.
I love that no, and I love that they just let it go.
They're just like whatever a girl, whatever, you know, which is what they often do to me. But then even Miranda says, don't have sex on the first date.
I believe she says don't work on the first date.
Then Amanvas says, and very very smart, she says, you can still get dumped on your first date or your tenth date whenever you have sex.
And this is a good point, a good point, Samantha.
So my curiosity in now that there's been dating apps and there's been hook the hookup culture and all this, like what do the young people think did Ella, give any insight.
I you know, it's so funny. I would love to. I you know, listen, I have a kid who tells me everything, so I read. You know, even my son who's nineteen, he's still the kid who tells me things as a nineteen of it. He's a mod boy. So I love that. I still get like. I also love that about this generation and being a parent of kids of this generation is sort of like I guess our own flaw was like in the helicopter parenting of it all, and also through COVID, we all spend so much time together. So I had a friend one say to me, like, when your kids are younger and they're babbling about stuff that like is unimportant, just act so interesting, you know, just like pretend like the blowing the bubbles on the thing was the greatest thing. And you're gonna just because as the information gets more important as they get older, the trust is there and they know they've got you, and so I do. Yes. So I don't know I what I will say about Ella. She didn't really have an insight. I just know she is not a Charlotte. She's like got it the last of the list. She is not a Charlotte, as she told me, she's like there's much Charlotte at all in her. She thinks there could be mixes of people, and there's no Charlotte in Okay. Just funny because she's my child. And I would say, I'm hysterical mostly Charlotte.
So I love it. I love it.
How interesting I mean for me, Charlotte's whole like full addiction to rules the entire first and I think second season is kind of fascinating. And I remember it just being a big challenge to act because it's not me at all. And I grew up in the South where everyone wanted to get married and they were debutantes and all that, and my whole reaction to that is like ow, and therefore I'm playing I'm playing.
One of those women.
And I just tried to draw on, you know, people that I knew, and kind of the obsession with it. And I think with the obsession, which is really you know, it's an obsession to an outcome, right, yeah, and so, and that's what's great about Charlotte is that her outcomes don't always work out in that way that it's a lesson for her as opposed to somebody who's on that trajectory and then it all works out gloriously, which I don't really know if that happens, but I love that about her. You know, She's always like super focused, whether I agree or not. And then she's got a lot of research. Like there's one episode coming where I have a book and I'm like, this book tells you how to get married, and they're all just rolling their every eyeball. It's just rolling and rolling and rolling. But you know, Charlotte's didactic.
She's like committed. She's hardcore, you know, which I love.
But it was sometimes hard to play play in terms of, you know, how could I deepen it out and make it relatable? And what if you weren't one of those people and you were watching it. I didn't want people to hate her, you know what I'm saying, right, or to have.
Her feel like the boring one or the but I don't. It doesn't ever play that way, And maybe it can, because you know, on some level I could relate so much, but I you know, and listening to some of your other episodes, the way you talk about needing that voice of reason because the other you know what I mean, you like to make you need those different perspectives to make it feel relatable and real, and for there to be the question mark on the person, like for you know, Samantha, who's like opposite, right, someone's got to be the sounding board there for there not everyone is it's Samantha, right.
No, no, and not everyone's Charlotte.
And I think the great thing is that it gave us a way to debate the topics. And because Carrie is a you know, journalist and really doing research in so many ways, you know, I wonder blah blah blah blah blah, it gave different living examples of the different ideas, which was great. And that's why we can still talk about it, I think, and in so many ways the reason that is still interesting. So I mean, when when they have this whole conversation, it's you know, it's of course always scary to talk about these things in your own life and you're happily married, which you know, I admire you and Ben so much, but you know, I don't even know anymore. Like there's two themes in this episode. One is the secret sex of it all right, because so basically they they go out, he takes her to this kind of hole in the wall Chinese restaurant. She thinks it's great the first time they go. Maybe not so much the second time they go.
But the first time.
She's like, this is great because it's so New York, right, Like to me, that's that's the joy.
Of New York food.
There's what's better, right exactly.
And sometimes it doesn't have to look glamorous to be good, I mean pretty much all the time, really, right, So I love that about it. And Sir Jessica knows like every Chinese restaurant in New York City and is a really good resource if you ever need to know.
But I'm sure you don't.
So they got they the idea of secret sex and the idea of the rules. And I remember when we did this scene. This was one when I look back a lot of the things I don't have super clear memories of because it was like eight million years ago. But there's this was a good bonding. This was a because we didn't really have coffee shop scenes yet, you know, which I really miss when I'm watching, which is funny because they're so hard to film. As I'm sure you would understand all of us, every angle.
Of everyone eating and eating.
Yes, you know, for an entire sixteen hour day. But I do miss them now when I'm looking back. So this is almost like a coffee shop scene just in her apartment, right, And I love that we're there for her, and I love that it's a good example of like everyone with their viewpoint, right, everyone's got their different viewpoint.
But we know that the stakes are.
So high because we know how much she's like big for a while, and they have this whole like interesting you know, flirtation that's not obvious, but they're.
And he's so elusive, he's right, what are his intentions? You know, every very question marky about him from the get go. But he's got her, he's got a grip on her, right.
He's got a grip on her for sure, one, yeah, for sure. And they play it so well I think.
I mean, I hadn't really remembered how many kind of weird interactions they have before they actually date. And the chemistry is so obviously there from the get go. But also he is, in my mind extremely questionable. But this is my mind now, I don't ever remember thinking that back then.
Right, right, I just think for me, and this is of course dripping ahead like it was playing out in real time, and it was like, Okay, you know, I see her draw, I get all this, what are his real intentions? But I was always sort of like team Aiden when Aiden came in, Oh, that's sound that You're not going to get to that for a while on the podcast.
I'm not. But it's super interesting. It's super interesting.
But I also Charlotte was such a you know, big, big, big But when I look.
Back on it, I'm like, why why he is a problem?
Right?
And also even when you see it and knowing like where things go and all the ups and downs and the you know, where the series goes, it's like, even early on, it's like he's got moments where you're like, what a I know?
And one of those moments, okay, so she's got She puts on this gorgeous dress.
She looks like a million dollars, right, and it's.
The dress that she wears for the cover of her book or whatever. And they put it on the bus and she decides to wear that, and of course Charlotte is like doubtful that this is just a good idea or whatever, but obviously she looks amazing.
She walks out, she puts on the vintage. First she walks.
Out and he says interesting dress, and she says meaning and he says interesting dress, and I'm like.
Ew, that's like so smug. Like Ellen and I were both like, he's so mean, right, I know.
I know it's like negging.
I don't even know if that had been you know, invented yet or whatever written about, but you know that whole thing. And I have had men try to neg me before, and I'm like, get away from me now, like.
Do not say anything negative to me. It's not going to work out, especially if you just met me. It's crazy.
It's like a reverse psychology.
But yeah, no, it's terrible.
So anyway, the weird part of this is they get in the car and pretty quickly they're just making out.
I'm just like Carrie, Carrie, Oh my gosh. But whatever.
At the time, Charlotte didn't feel that way, but I feel this way looking back on it. The other thing that I think of, and I wanted to ask you this just as an actor.
Yeah, there is a funny.
Quality to almost all of the sex scenes up to this point of this, like frenetic, frenzy thing.
Right, do you remember this in time?
I don't remember it in real time. I really don't.
It's odd, Like what on earth? Like do people actually do this?
I don't think so, right.
Like walking in from a doorway and.
Like and like I gotta pull your clothes off, you know, And I do I feel I feel it was coming in a way from the Melrose nine O two and oh vibe. I think that was going on there too, you know, like this kind of it's like a heightened I don't know if it. It doesn't seem sexy to me at all.
I know it does not feel realistic, but it's like there's something I guess for a viewer that's and also when you've got like less than thirty.
Minutes to show and epic, yeah, good point.
You're not getting the time to do a lot of that. But I do think there's probably like the sort of like titillation of like, oh, that's somebody's fantasy, that's how it would happen.
I don't know this fantasy is that I want to know. I want to know is it men's fantasy?
See, this is one thing I'm really interested in looking back on, you know, the viewpoint of what we were doing. And it does kind of I mean, luckily we have the sex scenes or the scenes after the sex, right, So like they show Carrie and Big after sex and she tries to talk to him, yes, and he's also aloof vent right, which I'm like, girl.
It's kind of like he almost does an eye roll almost when she's like, oh, I think she's I think it's when she goes, I didn't plan on this happening, and he kind of like, well, you know, like clearly we both kind of planned on this happening, and you wore that dress, so what what was right? Right?
And I mean I kind of get that because she did wear that dress, I guess, but I also feel like, you know, it's that weird thing of like our men and women are on different planets, you know what I'm saying, right, And especially.
Left the apartment after talking to as soon as she leaves after she talks to you all. It's I can't remember. And I watched it twice because I know you talked about it too. No memory of the breaking the fourth wall talking to the camera.
Oh, it's hysterical.
It's very inconsistent.
It's inconsistent because sar Jessica did not enjoy it that well.
It's funny because it almost felt like it was in the pilot and then it went away, and then it reappeared in like episode four or five, where it's true suddenly it was she was doing a lot of it, but I know, and there's still narrations, so it's almost like why.
There's a narration and then there's also the people on the street talking to the camera, right. I feel like that was a very important idea in the beginning to Darren and we have to ask Darin. But that made it seem more like these universal questions, right, like, let's let's talk to all these New Yorkers about these I think, just.
Find a random you know, person a BCD and get there exactly right. But it's that thing that you like, if you're going to do that, then you commit. And obviously in the first season of a show, you're figuring it out, like is this well?
And thank goodness they let us, you know, they really gave us so much space and room to figure it out because back then, and this was unusual. Back then, we filmed the whole thing before it was on the air, which back then that wasn't how things were. But now with streaming, that is how things are. It's super interesting to me. Okay, So Carrie goes off and she has sex with Big as we know, and after he kind of this is her dress or what?
I don't know what he's doing there.
We'd have to read his mind somehow, which obviously is impossible to do. Now we've got Miranda and Skipper, which is pretty funny. He disappears, he just disappears, and there's a new guy for her.
Then she meets at the gym.
It's so funny. But then Skipper comes back.
He does come back, which surprised me. I don't remember this, do you know what I mean? They're not all very interesting. Now, this whole storyline with Miranda, Wow, I mean it's pretty interesting.
So she's going out with this guy. He looks so vanilla, you know, really really normal.
Yes, really just like any dude in New York to me, I mean, that's my opinion.
I don't know if that's right.
But then his name is Ted Baker, which also like, isn't that a shoe brander of clothes brando shit Faker?
And then her and then Carrie's friend's name is something else that's also a kind of.
Vanilla, is right, I mean really like they're just like trying to be every man type situation. And also Carrie has so many friends, like she's best friends with Giver, which is odd.
I was like, why is Stanford not why is it this new guy in this episode? But exactly, he's in one figuring things out.
Right, No, I know, And then and then he goes, thank goodness, we have much more standy coming up.
Thank goodness. I mean, no offense to that actor.
He was fine, no, no, But I think so it's like a vehicle to tell these other stories.
I think, sure, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So Skipper has disappeared strangely with no story, which is interesting. We find out the next episode something and then we've got this new dude, Ted Baker.
And a kiss on the street is kind of adorable. He's going to call her.
I mean, sometimes when I look at this, it just makes me so nostalgic for old New York. Not that it's not still wonderful, but like old New York was, oh good.
And that really is how you would meet people like I mean that you would be at the gym or at a bar or wherever you would be be out and some interaction and it wasn't the apps, and it wasn't any of those things that real life feels social situations being in person and there's either a spark or not or an attraction for Nathan, and that is you know, Miranda. That made us laugh out loud too of like, you know, I was like, what's the setup going to be? And then she kicks this in the face at the and it's like so cute. At gym class, which I thought was Jimmy class, it was like a boxing gym. It wasn't at her during her workout. It was at gym class, which made.
Gym class like we're in grade school. It's so incredibly cute. And also I remember this was you know, there's like different phases of workout trends. I remember this phase. And I did go to a boxing class in LA where everybody was just randomly kicking, like at hanging bags and like everyone got kicked. I think, you know, I did not date anyone from there, but I did go and I did wear other people's boxing gloves, which is kind of gross.
It's so gross, right, I know.
Yeah, it was nine very different, Yeah, different time.
So the kiss on the street, which for me is so nostalgic and beautiful. I just love the kissing on the street of you know, basic strangers.
It's interesting to think about. It's very it seems very nostalgic to me.
And then I don't know if I should jump ahead, because I just love what happens with the storyline. And part the reason I love what happens with the storyline is that this guy I think plays it so well. I can't remember the actor's name right now. I don't I haven't written somewhere. But he's so kind of lovely and regular, right.
And saying how much he missed her while he was at work today.
Right, it's so sweet. It's so sweet. And he says, stay in my apartment.
I'm just going to cut to the whole storyline because I think it's very interesting. He says, stay in my apartment, and she's like, okay. The second he leaves, Miranda jumps up and starts going through his things, which I was a little surprised.
But I would one hundred percent have done that.
Really, I definitely did that in my twenties. I want to say, million percent, would you okay, would you immediately I mean.
You know, making sure enough time had passed that he was really gone, I'm back in, but for sure going through Wow to gather information.
Right, I guess.
So, I mean now we can look at people's Instagram and whatnot.
That's true. We didn't have that back then.
We did it, we needed information, Oh my god.
Yeah.
Right, So she finds a porn magazine about spanking, and she's kind of like a little miffed, which is also kind of funny because she's Miranda.
Yeah yeah, and that banking.
Kind of seems pretty benign to today's today's world.
I feel like, don't do absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, she has to go and talk to carry about it. She takes the magazine, doesn't.
She Well, it's a video, and she's, oh my god, I think in the drawer there's like it's like it must be a porn it's.
A spanking drawer. It's a drawer of spanking things. Yes, and she outs out.
The video and the next scene she's playing the video for.
Carrie right right, right, And this is very reminiscent, like so Carrie's already had to watch the modelizer having sex secretly filming the models, yes, and then has to have a cigarette nag like it's fine now, We've got Miranda with this spanking video. Soon we're gonna have all of us watching the people in the window. Do you remember this when we like turn our heads sideways because we're watching people have sex, which we hired two porn actors for side note, yes, which I remember. We were like semi traumatized about it, though, you know, more power to them, right. But it is a kind of a theme in the beginning. I guess it makes sense because Carrie is trying to, you know, investigate relationships and sex and.
What do people like? What do people do? So this poor.
Guy likes spanking and Miranda is very torn about it.
What do I do?
What do I do about it? And then later on I'm just gonna jump to the best part. I think later on she brings it up kind of casually on the street.
I might add and that I would never do. No, She's just like, but it's so Miranda, right.
Yes, exactly, Yeah, because she's so she's kind of a bull in a china shop in many ways, you know what I mean.
Like she'll just say stuff like lah, you know, it's kind of like that. Though I did think she tried to kind of be sexy about one.
And also because I think Carrie also says to her like you can't know until you try it kind of and then she's not choking, but like the seed got planted of like yeah maybe this, maybe this could be.
Fun, right right, totally, But this poor guy is just so mortified, and the actor plays it so sweetly, like if you found out that he was a serial killer or something like he looks just so embarrassed.
And defeated and defeated and sad my secret, Yeah, so sad.
And then she never hears from him again ever.
Doesn't return and that's like in the narration, it's like he never returned her calls. They didn't go home that night.
Like it's just so sad. It's so sad.
And it makes me think about secrets and you know, people's secrets and how you think that your secret is so terrible and then you find out later And I do feel now in the age of the apps and all the different things, you know that there's a lot less secrets kept.
Do you feel, right, I feel well, it's almost like, I mean, yeah, you have to you have to work a lot harder, I think, to keep a secret in this sort of digital age. Where where everything is documented, everything is you can track, like like even like back in the day, if someone said to us, you know, like oh you know, I can't you know. And I'm sure there's been episodes. I feel like there might have even been of like no, my maybe it was in the pilot, Yeah, where he just kind of goes her and it's like my mother's sick and the But now all you have to do is go to their social media, like and if they're check somewhere else, then check.
You can check on all the stuff.
And I feel like having a you know, a daughter in her twenty and like the impact social media has for this generation particularly, like it's like they it's how they function. She even said, even told me last night, like there's a like getting invited to parties. There's like an app that you get invited through and then you see the RSVP and it's like wow, it's you know, like not just simple basic ebite. There's like a whole like wow twenties.
Thing that for part My God, who knew?
Who knew it? It's but it's a lot. It's like a lot.
God, I hope it all works out for them.
Like yeah, I mean I feel I feel like they do have a lot of awareness, like you said, which is really important. And I do feel I mean, to me, secrets are not great, right, so like in some ways that's a great thing to have more freedom about, Like, well, this is what I like, Yeah, this is what I don't like. Like that is a that is a good development, right.
Right, absolutely absolutely, And I think you're somebody who's like confident and comfortable and okay, like you know, the more information you give early on in dating or meeting somebody, like, the less hurt you're gonna down the line feel right, you know what I mean, like if either it's going to feel good or not, you know, like uh, I like that, yeah, like it's going to work or not. But I don't know, like I as sort of a self proclaimed people pleaser, that's a that's a difficult thing to do. Like like there's one of the earlier episodes, and I don't want to get off track because we have a lot to cover, but the earlier episodes were you know the one I think it's the one, yeah, where the guy wants to ask carry to marry her and then he takes.
You from yeah, and and like she's so straightforward when she realizes, like she she's like, I'm sort of just trying you on, and you know what I mean, And it's true.
It's great, that's what you sort of want to do. But then you want to just be honest. But it's very hard because you don't want to hurt someone's feelings. You don't want them to hate you. You don't want it to end bitterly, or for there to be bad feelings about it.
So oh gosh, that's why I.
Love that there's so many different points of view from each of you and how you manage those situations.
It's true.
I also love because then Charlotte dates him, which is interesting because it would make sense because they theoretically want the same thing. And then Charlotte is so incredibly picky that when he doesn't like the china she likes, she's like, no, And I love that because I don't really remember all that, and to me, it just speaks to like Charlotte really has like like a steel center, do you know what I'm saying?
Yes, Yeah, that's such a great way to put it, such a great way to put it too.
She may not seem it, you know, like you don't necessarily realize it.
She's all like haha, you know whatever.
She seems giggly and girly, but like inside there's like rock card steel.
You know, it's interesting to me. It's interesting to me.
But let's talk about the secret sex thing, because I do think this is interesting and even with the digital media social media age, I do feel like it's still true. There would be people that you might go out with or you might have sex with, and you would not want people to know, so you would not be posting them.
You would not post where you go.
You know.
There's this whole thing about like going Instagram official, right, that's like a tries to be I mean I think still I don't know if I'm not objective about this, but you know you don't do that unless you're serious, right, So there is still a way to try to keep secrets in this day and age that everyone kind of knows everything. Yes, and I'm interested in I wonder. I don't know if you and I are the best people to ask, but it's interesting to me, like what are the ideas now of who you're supposed to be with?
You know, like is that still functioning?
You know?
Right? Like I mean I think it really depends. Well just watching this episode and this will play into it slightly, I think because where she talks to the friend, and the friend is like no, where Carrie starts to like now realize when he's not introducing when he brings her back to the restaurant where ye friend.
For a second time? Have you seen?
It literally made me think of like Ben and I went on our first date and Ben was Ben Stiller.
Like he'd been ready.
Yeah, yeah, it was like there's something about Mary had come out. It was a huge work together. That's how we met, Like he cast something he was directing me. We had like laughed a lot, and like we were both like sort of getting out of relationships and sort of in this like rebound where he was like, hey, do you want to have dinner and like, but he was still Ben Stiller, so like he attracted attention wherever he went, and I with the time I was living off of Laurel Canyon on the valley side of Laurel Canon and he came to me up and really casually like and I laughed now because I was like I so got it without him having to say it. And it was his way of like not wanting to offend me, but like he's like, yeah, and this was before like the valley now Studio City is so like it's happening. It's that happening, you know, twenty five years ago, and it was. And he just was like, hey, I love the valley. I don't go to a lot of restaurants in the valley, like is there like are there any good restaurants like over here? And I what between the lines what I was reading was literally like this is a first date. The last thing we want is for paparazzi to catch a picture and there to be some sort of story. I was, you know what I mean, it would like who has been Stiller with kind of story? It was not, And and it really made me laugh because like he didn't think that I knew what he was.
Let me ask you, were you offended at all?
I really wasn't, because that's good. Also, it was this weird thing of like I'm going on a date with Ben still like what's the reality? Like this is? And I don't want I was. I told like a couple of my really close girlfriends, I didn't like call my family and sam going on. I mean, I was like I'm gonna see what this is because this is very seral. I literally like was a fan of his films, and I was it's a very strange thing to be but having just worked with him, we'd spent a couple of weeks together of just you know, developing a rapport and you know so, but we ended up going to and I don't know if you remember it, Michelli's in the Valley, sure, like.
That's insane.
Yes, that was our first dated to last because the waiters sing show tunes and we're both like musical theater now.
But it just no, I wasn't offended because I was equally as like talking about secrets. It was sort of like I wanted this to feel like a secret for me in a way. I didn't want people to be so intrigued or have opinions or.
Well there's pressure from that pressure, and there.
Were there stories that people would you know, like yeah, going out, but still like whatever, I wanted it to be our thing, so I felt it was actual, but it was just sort of how he.
It's really funny. I like it.
But then my question would be what happened on the second date? Did you also go to a restaurant? In the valley and did it bother you? Then like at what point.
You know, I we started going like we started spending a lot of time very quickly, and then and then we it wasn't even like he was going to New York to shoot a movie pretty soon after that, so it was almost like we had this like fun time together re for like over the course of a week or two. And then he was leaving for New York and it was like that talk of like, hey, I'm going to be in New York for the next three months, and like, you know, maybe if you're back east, well, we're very loose about it. And he laid out New York and it was spring in New York and the new it was like he was in Central Park and I got a call and he was like, so do you think you'd never want to come and visit in the next week it's before we start shooting. It's like, so that's so cute. It was like very quick that we were like creaked in obsessed with each other.
And love it, love it, love it right, amazing, Yeah, but that's so great.
But then when you were in New York, could you hide or did you know?
Then in New York. It was like he was working a lot and I was showing up and like, so it started to become I mean, I don't It wasn't really like tabloid material, but it was really like we were just out dating, you know.
I was fine with it. You're fine with it organically? Yes, because I love it. I love it.
I mean yeah, I feel like that is its own you know, micro cosm of secrets, right to have to deal with public perception and own right, right, it's its own thing. But I do feel like I watched this episode, I'm like, well, I'm really good at secrets and I don't intend to change that.
But on the other hand, I feel like it is kind of.
I have mixed feelings about it, I guess, you know, because like, on the one hand, why should you feel bad about anybody that you're involved with. Why in this day and age, why should you ever second guess your own attractions?
Well, you know, and that becomes like the bigger question of like it's all about appearance, Like I don't want my friends to judge me.
In this show, the guy who goes out with the girl that he meets at the cheese shop, you know, who's like so amazing and so great, and he says, oh, she's not beautiful enough. I mean that's about him, that's so fully one about him. Yes, yes, and it's so sad, I know.
And because she's amazing.
I was so happy that that little storyline got tied up with him saying she dumped me, she found someone else.
Thank God, right, thank God.
Happy that it wasn't just him getting to have this time.
I agree, I agree, I agree because the male guys in the beginning are so incredibly toxic. Like we have that first thing where we label people toxic bachelors. I feel like that could be everybody but Skipper for like the whole first season. I mean, it's so insane, right, They're so awful. And I remember at the time, my mom had said to me, my grandmother was living at my house with my parents, and so there had to be this whole kind of secret. I would send mom the VHS tapes to watch secretly because she didn't want Grandma to see it. And I remember Mom saying, and I had to just be vague. When I would see my grandma, I'd be like, yeah, I'm working, and she'd.
Be like, what are you working on?
Oh?
You know something in New York, Like I couldn't say the title right to my ninety something year old grandmother.
So my mother had said to me, like, you know, I'm just so depressed. The show just makes me so depressed. I was like, Mom, why, it's amazing. You know, there's four of us, we're stretting around York in our outfits. You know, what do you mean?
She said, I just don't want to think about this dating world for you. And I was like, oh, whatever, you know, I was just like puff, you know, mom, And I look back on it, I completely get what she's saying.
Right, looking back on it now, right.
Yeah, But I think back then we were kind of used to this stuff. Yeah, don't you feel yes, oh oh my gosh, yes.
Like I know it was shocking, right, like Edgy and whatnot that we were saying the things were saying, But I don't feel like the men and the situations were shocking.
Yeah, you know, no no.
Finance bros and whatnot, like there's so many eugh.
I know, And I think that was well done. And you know, I think probably as the show goes on and as I kind of rewatched that it again as well, because it's just so fun to do it. Now. Just see the evolution of how that first season the men are very it's an exaggeration yet very close to home of what things so true, but for the sake of comedy, you know, for the sake of.
Course, of course it's a little broad for sure, but I also feel and one of my favorite parts of this particular episode is so Carrie kind of spins out about Big, you know, after they have sex, and then she goes drunkenly to his apartment. I'm so out of order, but it just brought it up to me and he really makes sense.
Well, it's so funny that you said that because when you watch it the first time, because, like I said, I rewatched it again this morning, knowing his three excuses for the three moments he felt sort of shafted, and then you watch it again and it is that thing we've all been in, those scenarios where you run into someone you know and you're like, oh, I don't know their name, right, I feel embarrassed, so you kind of for the person you're with to either introduce themselves.
Right right name.
But it's yeah, it's so every tract it does it totally tracks when you hear his point of view, yes, and I was like, oh, thank god, thank god, we have a little insight into bigs you know, uh, mental state and or what he is or is not doing, you know. And then of course she feels so embarrassed, which you know, I've definitely been in this place before, not in a while, thank goodness.
But when you just spin out, you know.
And she's had a few drinks of course, so she's even more spun out, and she goes like banging on his door and she's all worked up, and then he's like.
What is the big deal?
And it's just such an awful feeling as a woman, you know, because you're just like, oh my god, I'm doing that thing.
I know, it's a little I'm feeling a little desperate right right.
And also like the emotions, like you just have so many emotions, and yet you kind of feel like the men they.
Just don't want that, they just don't want to know you. It's I know.
I know, And that's I think think that's also why there's something that works too with Big and Carrie, and even through his kind of like there's an aloofness to him, which I think makes it more attractive to her, but there's also both straight shooters. When it comes down to it, like you know, like I feel like he then does have the moment where he's like, hey, no, this is my reality and right, you know so like but I it's that tug of war attraction of you know you, There's always there's something about that person where it's like not the perfect fit, but that makes you want it more.
Right, But is it ever the perfect fit?
Christ I don't know, Okay, no, okay, Like does it exist?
I don't know.
It doesn't exist, And if it exists for a period of time, then you grow, Like I think, it just shifts and it evolves, and you don't want to have that. You want someone who pushes you. You want someone who you know helps you step outside of your zone. And so I do feel like it's but what makes me laugh so much in that episode is when they're like when Samantha's like, did you hear about the rabbi?
Charlotte?
I forgot. I totally forgot. Thank you for keeping me on Checracy.
Yes, I know, it's pretty funny. It's pretty funny.
Yeah, I'm not He's not a rabbi, Thank god, he is a Hasidic folk artist. You guys not just.
Made me laugh out loud, just even before the visual of the two of you together, but like you it's pretty funny.
Not a rabbi, thank god, but I mean, hello, we have a whole show about this now, Like nobody wants this. It's so amazing and to think about, right, And also Charlotte ends up with Harry like it's shadowy foreshadowing so many things that are coming, which I love. But what I love about that particular storyline and it is it is I every time I see one of my storylines in the first season, I'm like, oh my god, Like it just seems like a teen lifetimes ago, you know, and I'm like a little child kind of like. And I loved this actor. His name is Glenn Flesher, and he has worked a lot.
I was gonna say, I've seen him play bad guys and things like he can play really evil, like like.
He's so good. Yeah, he's really good. And this was his first acting job.
Stop it.
Yes, we heard this from Mollie, our costume designer, who was on and we talked briefly about this episode and she works with him in the future. After this, and he's like, I was the rabbi guy, the artist. She and she couldn't believe it because he didn't have the whole hair, which I think we put on him, you know, I think we made that happen.
And he was working and doing well. I know.
It's hysterical, right, And I remember going to Williamsburg.
I am like, what planet have we landed on?
Because I had never gone to Williamsburg at that point in nineteen ninety eight, I had no idea what was there? Right, Yes, it was a very specific subcult where everyone in this like maybe ten block radius are you know, conservative Jewish people, and you are like a fish out of water.
And as we're they're filming, I have.
To walk down the streets and they somehow find out what we are, or maybe they think that we're something even worse than what we are, and they basically come and tell us we have to leave.
They run us out of Williamsburg.
Oh yeah, they were like, who gave you this permit?
You can't be here? What are you wearing? You know, And we were like.
Oh my gosh, we leave.
We were scared. We didn't want to accept people. You know, It's very interesting.
I know, I know, but I remember I really liked that guy. I thought he was a good actor. I don't mean like like I just mean he was a good actor, and I enjoyed it. And I look back on it now and.
I feel like Charlotte really it's just.
Out there trying stuff, you know, like, no matter what she says she wants, she's out there game did you try stuff out?
I mean, I feel like that's what makes Charlotte so interesting because you think she's one thing, and like you said, there's like the steel you know you is going and exploring and and not it's being true to herself. It's not like she's making compromises. It's sort of like, I am curious, this is not gonna be the person I'm gonna end up with.
But right right for me, it's super fascinating, Like you.
Were intoxicated by his by his art, by the whole, by the like we've all had those moments too, where you're in like a world totally different than your own. And that's like it's so interesting and over.
Right right right. I love that. I love it.
It's such a funny little like like sidebar. Oh yeah, And I also feel it's the thing that we end up getting a little smoother. It's like kind of her key jerky now, but you know, eventually, the way the show would work is we would all have our own storylines and her voiceover would connect them so they, you know, towards the end of the episode, she'd say like, and then up on the Upper east Side, yeah, and downtown this is a wild right. So we don't have that totally happening on all cylinders yet, but it's starting.
To happen, you know, which I really really love. And we don't have the coffee shop.
Scenes, which I also really miss, which is funny to me because we did curse them a lot when we were doing them, but now I miss them.
Oh, I see how nostalgic you get.
I know, right about the strangest things. The strangest things.
Okay, I've gone so out of order, But are there like shocking things that I haven't said?
Maybe cause if I took a lot of notes too, you did.
I'm so impressed, Christian, Oh my gosh.
I think also because I've been like started the binge, I didn't want to mix up great moments and other episodes that you've already talked about.
I did a bad thing last night, and then I watched the next one because I got confused about what number we were on.
And now I'm all like, wow, I know, Ella, and I almost did that. And she goes, no, you should stop now, and then we'll just ki.
She was right. She was so right, she was so right.
We talked about Miranda and that sweet poor guy that she embarrasses.
Well, and the bus reveal the carry like when they know the carry bus reveal, which I do remember because it's like five degrees and it's gonna say, right, and that's.
Wherever huddled under the bus stop.
It looks lustery.
Yeah, I'm shivering.
I'm literally like, you know, when you're really trying not to shiver when they say rolling.
It's the worst. It's the worst. And we're trying to be so jovial.
And then this guy comes, her friend Mike or whatever his name is, right, never.
Who we never see again.
Right, Yeah, I know, it's super interesting. It's super interesting. But apparently she is friends with so many people.
Well that's what I think. That's the setup too, is that is the quintessential. You know, she knows a lot of people, She's you know, uses her resources, and like you said, it's a true storytelling device, you know.
To be it's so true. It's so true.
Now the thing that also happens on the bus, which to me is so also foreshadowing of our lives in real life, is that so she's got this glamorous you know, advertisement side of the bus, she's wearing this glamorous dress, and then someone has graffitied male private parts close to her mouth, and you know, it is like what happens when you put yourself out there as a woman in our society, you know what I'm saying, Like you are going to get some you know, some flat.
You still see it in New York. I mean I live in New York now and you still see those sort that sort of graffiti like in you know, with against a like a beautiful woman or whatever the ad is for, and it's it's all over the place. It was just what's so crazy too? And I turned to Ellis say in that moment, is like as the friends of seeing that too, Like you know, of course it's like horrifying for her, but it's also like it's a hilarious. It's like it's just like, yeah, that's New York, Like this is our weird city that we live in.
Like so true, Why couldn't the one.
Thing that I was doing be beautiful? And it's New York City, so it's messy and.
And that's true.
What I was reminded of is like in that moment, we would have because we but back then we did you didn't have camera on the cell.
Hey no, someone would have.
Gotten the picture and been able to crop that part out.
Good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good point. But we're there because we don't have the ability.
You know.
It's interesting, right, yeah? I love that. Also, so she.
Had to just live with her own it's like embedded in her skull. And that's also plays into I think why she needs to confront Big and why she needs to go there, because it's like this disaster and you didn't show up to my thing and there's a like a penis next to my.
Right photo with someone just taking you down, you know, someone taking you down a notch.
Right, So like, yes, she starts the episod so did.
She's wearing her fabulous dress, she's ad her photo shoot. Then she's showing us the fabulous dress and things are going great, and then and then things don't seem like they're going as great as she thinks.
Yeah, which is how life is, isn't it. It really is? It really is. I know I know.
But then and one one of my questions, and I mean this is I could ask this at any given point, at any of these episodes.
Do we believe Big at this point?
I mean, I'm gonna be honest, like I'm still I like, I don't want to because I know that there's a hole.
So much coming.
Of people who have strong opinions. But it's like, I like, I still just don't really like him, but I understand Carrie's and he said all the right things in that moment she's tipsy, Yeah he gave her and they're they're all legit reasons, and she's a true and she has that moment of like, so this this is like a real thing, and he's and I forget what he says at the end. But then they and then I obviously it's a it's a happy ending. They end up they're they're going to sleep together again, right, you know, she's she's got it or so we think. You know, I didn't. I didn't go ahead. I didn't jump ahead like you did right.
This is what he says. He says.
She says, so you and me, maybe this is for real, and he responds, could be, No, I.
Knew, but kisses her.
Yeah, of course.
I mean his actions say yes, but his words do not say yes.
It's just so frustrating.
He picks her up and carries her into the room. Okay, I mean it's so interesting to watch back now because I really never in my mind did I think he's kind of weird and makes messages and aloof and whatever. I never once thought that interest, right, I know, well, it just goes to show.
Uh yeah, like I need some adjustments.
But it looks like it's happened over the years, because now I totally think that watching him, like what is wrong?
Sure, And I can't remember at the time, Like I said, I in my memory of the show the relationship that I remember enjoying them, I was when she was with Aiden, like.
That was great. I think that's great. I think it's a relationship.
Her in real time thinking oh, what's the appeal with him? I don't, But watching it now, I'm sort of like so annoyed that she's like taking the bait and taking the bait.
It's true, but I will say this, I think the thing that I am also kind of surprised by when I look at all the men in the show, not not the men that she's with or learning with or whatever, you know, they're very like Big is kind of in terms of achievement and intellect, which is very important to carry, right, Like she you know what, she does the crossword puzzle, which I think was last last time.
He's doing the crossword puzzle and it's like that's the word, you know, which is so sir jesical.
Sure something exactly right, exactly you know, there's and then you look at like for instance, the twenty something guy episode very good, which is kind of funny, a hinge but whatever, she you know, she's got the young boys who want you know.
And then like the next.
Episode is justin Throw's first episode and she kind of flirts with him. He's a writer, but he's a writer that has some success.
But when you look at how.
He iss, he's not enough for her, you know what I'm saying.
And that's the thing about Big That was.
The other thing can I genuinely completely forgotten is where the name Big had come from. Like and in the pilot. It's just exploits the way Samantha's like, Oh, he's this big right ill estate mogul, you know, I right, I might even say, like the next Donald Trump is. I think we do study like but so so that gives you the sense of like what his status is, and also too of like, right, he is taking meetings, he does have a crazy schedule, and he's.
And he has a driver, and he has a like corded phone in the back of the car, which is so hysterical.
There's a it's like a driver weird like Sedan.
Yeah, it's the black like Buick or whatever, Cadillac. I don't know what it is, town car, I guess.
I mean, it's really funny. But I think and he's based on a real person. I don't know if we've said this yet, but he is based on a real person that Kennics bush Now was involved with, who was a big publishing person. I'm not going to go further than that. You can look it up if you guys want, but I feel I feel, I feel like it's I don't even know if it's fair to say who these people were based on.
You know what I'm saying, because or anything happened since then, but inspired by it, I like that that's a good way to go. That's a good way to go.
Yet the time, I remember, wherever we would go, people would say, oh, like if we went to an event, they'd be like, that girl over there is who Charlott's based on it, And I'd be like, really, oh my god, I guess I better go investigate this girl woman whatever. And I mean who knows, Like at a certain point, like half of New York was who we were based on, you know, it was that's right.
That's exactly right, I think there. But what I love so much is just the you know. I think Ella kind of put it as we were sort of talking about it, because Ella, having rewatched it more recently than me, was like, you're such a Charlotte. When I told her about doing this, She's like, but sprinkle, she goes. But I think everybody has a sprinkle of Carrie. Because Carrie as the narrator, as the we're seeing the show through her lens. She's meant we're all supposed to relate to her in a way like, right, she's she's back, you know. So she was like and maybe a little Miranda, but no, Samantha.
I mean sometimes I think no, Miranda too.
It depends on the episode, right, like sometimes yeah, it depends on the episode, but she kind of. I mean, I'm so watching everybody's performance. Like, first of all, I just am Yeah, I'm so blown away by Sara Jusca. You know, I think to myself, like, why didn't I go to work every day that she was working and steady what she was doing, like, she is so incredible.
No, no, no, And you talked about it a little bit and I think one of your first or second episodes, but just the subtlety and what she's doing her, I mean, she's like having met her a few times and know her a tiny bit, like she's so brilliant, just like in the brain. But yeah, Medianne, she's real, she's herself.
She's so present.
There's it's you know, and I love. I love when you talked about them wanting you to cut your hair for the pilot and herse did you cut? And You're like, now I know who I need to go.
Yeah, I mean that was that was like a bell Weather moment of like, oh, thank God, go to.
Somebody right exactly. But yeah, even Ella just having the experience of like working on set and but all of you, I mean she's really said it about all of you have just for it was really her first big job on a like you know, being able. I didn't bend a couple of days. She's done little teeny things here and there for most of the theater, and and just to get to watch you all, it was she just said like a master class and also really had a good laugh about like like some of the wardrobe and how that literally plays into getting in and out of a doorway.
I think, oh yeah, because the whole thing.
In this first season has not gotten to be what.
Right comes right? You know, we're developing, We're developing.
We had Molly on, our costume designer, who at the beginning was like I think listed as costume supervisor. Okay, and you can just see a beginning, and it really begins with Sarah Jessica because Sar Jessica already had the relationships with the designers and we needed to borrow things. But what Molly told me, which I forgotten, is that basically the rest of our clothes are coming from costumes are coming from Bloomy Dale's and Century twenty one.
See that is so off brand when you think of Sex and the City, like I know, in fact doesn't Sarah Jessica Carrie has that joke about the guy she's trying on. It's like it's kind of like a decam my dress, Like you want to try it all, but it's not for you, Like it's not exactly for everything. So I find it and the way each of you and your fashion develops and becomes, you know, sort of an extension of your personalities, and you know, it's brilliant. It's brilliant how it evolves. And this is just like a great podcast. It's a great way to revisit something that's so beloved for so many of us.
Thank you. It's fun.
It's such a kind of therapeutic and interesting thing for me, right because I had never never rewatched you know, I can't.
Even imagine going back and especially still being in it with and just like that.
Well I think that really helps, right because like I feel like if we weren't together anymore, if we didn't get to be together anymore, it would be more sad for me to look back, I feel, But because we've had this incredible journey that we never in a million hundred years would have guessed in the beginning. I mean, we were just so excited to get to do thirteen episodes, you know what I'm saying, right like that was a miracle, right, and now to imagine all the things that we've gotten to do over time, which we've had to fight for every single time, and it's never handed to us, as you know, nothing is really handed to any of us in this business, even at the tippy top, which we're not.
But you know what I'm saying, Yes, it's never again. You have to fight, Yeah, you have to fight for it.
But it's been so worth it and so incredible. And the real reason and the reason I kind of wanted to do the podcast is that it's all because of these fans, you know, and the fans who've been with us since the beginning, and also this whole new you know, multiple generations.
It's it's multiple, multi generational, absolutely, and that's why I think it's really like, but it's still you look at a different period of time and you can pick out things like the way you talked about New York looks a little different, the clothes or whatever it is, but there are still very sort of fundamental issues that women deal with collectively, and yes, there's been some growth in some of them, but still at the core, it's really like the struggles we all feel about, like what do I want? What? What do I want? Right?
Right? Who am I? Who do I want to be with?
Existential questions that like are very hard to answer, but you guys get to do it in a way that you know you're you're echoing our thoughts, right, And yeah, it's it's it's you.
It is special. It's so special to have you on with me. I appreciate it so much.
Yes, yes, Oh. And the one thing I was going to say was that I listened to the Michael one of the first part of the Michael Patrick King episode, and I loved what he said. I didn't ever, I never even thought about it when he said you never see the parents of anybody except for a couple of the in laws, and one of them being Ben's mother who played the steam and Mira playing and I thought, and when he said it too, I was like, He's like, how many people when you went moved to New York, where you were you meeting their parents? Like the transplants, most everybody came from somewhere else right, like Ales, but he was a native New Yorker. Maybe that was the family you knew, But I just thought that was so interesting that that's not something you see.
You know, I know, I know we took so many weird chances, you know when I'm saying like I do remember at the time, because when you're trying to figure a character out, you're thinking, well, who are her parents, where did you how.
Did she become like this?
And so you're trying to fill it all in yourself, and you know, little by little details come out, like at some point I say, I went to Smith, which of course makes so much sense, and you know, little bits, and then you meet my brother, which is very strange, which we touched on with Michael Patrick, very very strange episode, and.
Then he's never discussed again. But it was it was a challenge in that way, and that's why I do think it.
At a certain point, I thought, gosh, I need to maybe investigate these women that I keep hearing I'm based on, because maybe I can figure out who they are and that will inform Charlotte. So I do remember going up to the Upper east Side and like just kind of walking around like stocking these women who looked like kind of like Charlotte's, Like what stores are they going to go into?
Like basic little tiny details.
I'm trying to find out because I'm not really you know, like a New York you know. I mean I would also go to the art galleries and that was really fun. Yes, that was the best part in so many ways. But I mean it was all fun really and and interesting in that. I think also because writers were so great and HBO let us find ourselves, you know, through the process. So it was kind of this amazing melding of of us as actors with our with our parts, you know, which is such a joy and a rarity.
And to become as iconic, right like as it it's it's always those moments where when it's something special, it's the right people at the right time, in the right place, and it's then the magic happens. And I just think that's one of those magical examples of that.
Is it is on. It's incredible to think about. It's incredible to think about, you know, just the luck of getting to be a part of that.
You're awesome, This was so much.
Thank you all right, your joy, thank you, thank you thank you so much, to you,
