And That's What You REALLY MissedIt's Kevin from The Office chatting with Kevin from Glee!
While there was never an official crossover between the two hit shows, there was a strong connection! Before Glee, Kevin played the infamous 'Pizza by Alfredo' delivery kid held hostage by Michael Scott, and there was a whole episode where all The Office characters got together for a "Glee" viewing party!
This "office" party is just getting started as actor, podcast host, and New York Times best-selling author Brian Baumgartner joins Jenna and Kevin to share stories about his time on The Office, including the audition process, the chemistry on the set, initially reading for the role of Stanley, behind-the-scenes scoop about Kevin Malone's band, and a story he has never told before involving John Mayer! It's water cooler chat worthy!
Plus, just in time for the 4th of July holiday, Brian talks about his new cookbook, "Seriously Good Barbecue Cookbook," available for purchase now!
And That's what you Really missed with Jenna.
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Welcome to and That's what You Really miss Podcast. Today we have an actor a friend from another hit show and it's a very meta thing where our worlds have collided multiple times. Kevin, you were on the Office as the pizza.
Guy, that's right, and then there was an episode of Glee featured in an Office episode, so a very weird meta crossover. But that's what makes The Office the incredible show that it is because they're down to do that. And today we have Brian Bob Gardner from the Office, who played even weirder Kevin. So there's a lot of strange ties we have all together and.
He's just like the best storyteller ever, so.
Oh my god, the best We go on off the rails. We just talked about whatever, which is great. And he has a new cookbook out which we also talk about, which is going to make you starving. It made Kevin starving, made me starving. I have to go eat now. But this from the Office, Brian bomb Gardner. Hello, it's so good to see you. Thanks for coming on to our show this time.
Welcome.
It's my pleasure to be here. How are you guys?
Good? Thank you so good to see you. Well, welcome to the show. We're happy, We're so excited to have you. We want to talk about all things office in Glee and Glee office and your cook and your cookbook. I mean, I just want to know how you got your start in acting, since you got to hear about us and we're starting now.
Now, hold on a second, I do want to ask a question. I want to I'm taking over this interview. Great, we discussed Glee on the office. Yes, did you ever discuss the office on Glee?
I don't think so.
Mm hmm. Did you not want ratings?
We definitely wanted.
We definitely needed them after the first couple of season.
You know, that would have cost us, you know, and we already cost a lot.
I don't know. Did we pay you to mention you? No?
No, no, But on your episode, our producer told us the Glee episode we were one of your most expensive episodes the viewing party because you had to pay for all the rights to use the Glee clips and things.
That's what I was wondering. We had we had to we had to pay, Yes, we.
Had to pay. Yes, you had to pay for the rights. You had to pay the actors, you had to pay music.
Yeah. Do you know I heard a story. God, I've never told I've been I talked all the time, and I have never told this. I believe this is true.
That's exactly how we want a story to start.
Let me, this is my recollection, okay. Was that there was an episode of the Office and we wanted to use John Mayer's song My Body is a Wonderland. Yeah right, okay, I've gotten the first part right. And someone I'm not even gonna mention who someone was friends or friendly with John. John said no. John said no because he was afraid that it was we were going to make fun of him, right, And we explained, I guess pitched what the thing was, and he let us use it for free.
Interesting.
Yeah, see, when you're the one that owns the thing, right, then you can do that, right, you know. Uncle Rupert Murdoch was never going to allow that.
To happen, Uncle Rupy.
Uncle Rupy was like, show me those coins.
Uncle Ruby, didn't I have? Oh my god, now this I have not this I have not told because this happened yesterday. And Brett, if you're listening if you're a Glee fan, if you're a fan of these guys and you're listening, I guess try me back. My phone rang yesterday. Now, I don't ever, Jenna, I have your information in my phone from like ninety seven years ago. I have ever deleted any information. That's just the thing. I'm like, well, maybe I'll need to talk to yes exactly, fifth grade teacher. My phone rang yesterday and it said Brett Dash Steve Miller. Now at the time, don't know if this is true or not. This has not been told. Brett was the manager of the Steve Miller band. Okay, Kevin's band in the Office was scripted to be a Steve Miller tribute band jo Hokers, and he said no, or said it's nine hundred million dollars or what actual it was said? It was no. So the very first time that Kevin's band appears in the in the show we had shot it. I played the drums to the very first time. I think it was sent to Jim and Pam as like a tryout, I want to play your wedding or no, no, no, no, sorry, Pam and Roy, Pam and Roy, Pam and Roy. But Pam and Jim were reviewing it. That's a weird deal. That's another day. It was me playing Jokers and Tokers and they had edited over me singing a police song. Don't remember which one it was because it got changed to scrant Nicity a police cover band because Steve Miller said no. I then met Brett at a Steve Miller concert told him the story and he was like, what the fuck what are you talking about? I never heard this is his manager. I've never heard this. It has to be And I'm like, dude, it's this is I mean, we're now in season four, it's done. It is now a police cover band. He called me yesterday. I don't know if it was a butt dial. I guess he doesn't delete.
His numbers him right speaker.
He didn't leave a message. I have no idea why he was calling. And I meant to google, like Steve Miller in Los Angeles this week, kid just see if he was like wanting to get a beer or something. I don't know, but that is and wants a new book a book, yes, new book? All right? Sorry, that was story Time with Brian. It's a new segment.
But you know, I just think it shows like those things happened with like those weird things would happen all the time, and you forget because they happened every single day. Where those weird things where you're like going up against the Steve Miller band and then you lose the rights to it and you move on to the next day whatever, you forget about it. And I think people, it's so great to be able to like reach into the recesses of your mind and bring those things up, because we would get so desensitized to those things happening, say another day at the office.
Our artists said no, another artist said no, another order said.
No, yeah, or it's never you know, I never found out like is it no, or is it like again ten million dollars, like ten million dollars or whatever. So we paid you. Interesting apparently that.
We just found that out about ten minutes ago, because apparently how it goes is they wanted to use a really current episode of Glee, but Fox said you can't air unaired stock stuff. Yet, you can't use that, and so they had to use an older episode and for any people they showed in the clip, they had to pay them for it.
Guys got checks.
Well, I don't know if.
We were in it.
Yeah, I don't know.
Whoever was shown in it got a check.
Of course they did. I never thought about that. Yeah, damn it, you guys couldn't throw me in.
I got check from the office exactly.
We should have just thrown you in a clip.
Here's a I really wanted to be brought back somehow on the office during that whole period, because there was some weird meta thing happening. I was like, look, you should. We kept running into each other at Emmy's parties. It's like, how like, hey, mindy write me back into this, Like, come on, you hired me the first time. The boy was very popular.
I have to say, sometimes you recognize, like we be together and Kevin would get recognized for the office and I'd be standing right next to him and like they wouldn't mention me at all.
It's almost a different it's a different demographic.
Yeah it is.
Yeah. It happens at like straight places, a brewery, sports bar. Yes, I was leaving a restaurant last year. I was at BJ's Classic VJs. The yeah, this guy several tables over yells across. I loved you in the office, and I was so shocked. It was like the Office. It's like, oh god, because yeah, it doesn't happen like quite as much as Glee, but every time I does, like yes, I did one episode.
Still, like demographic was so varied, especially on tour, like we got to go on a world tour. We got to see the demo and it was like, I mean, from child to senior citizen, it really ran again. But like was your audience more specific or did you guys feel like the same kind of it was a phenomenon, so everybody was watching.
I mean, well, I mean I think we've talked about this a little bit before, but I mean our thing was and I mean prepare for like standard stock answer, but like actually true, like we were we were a big hit on the NBC when we were gigantic, but we weren't. But we weren't friends, we weren't Seinfeld. Yeah, yeah, even cheers like we were. It was always sort of perceived as being like Culty different if you know, you know, kind of a thing until we the last five years. Then it like I I say, I think we're the first show in the history of television that literally got bigger years after it was on And now It's like I haven't seen the syllabuses at junior high and high schools, but it seems like it's required viewing now, like everybody does for sure. But I was gonna ask you guys if you do this because you talked about demographic, which never really occurred to me about Glee. But I envisioned myself when I walk into a BJS, for example, as one does, as one does, as one does as one sorry BJS, as one hasn't in probably fifteen years. But when I would, my eyes are like the old Terminator movies. Yes, where I walk in and I'm like threat threat threat threat threats.
Okay, back to the office. I want to know if Kevin was on Glee, if your character was on our show.
What would he sing? Well, I guess a police song, Miller, I guess, I guess rock Sanne.
We know the police, clear we did.
The police too are a good one.
The so, by the way, this is but I know you have a lot of fans who are musically inclined. This is how it was explained to me. I don't sing clearly, very very well, but I was explained to me this is the nerdiest writer's room joke of all time. Okay, here's how it was explained to me. If you guys want to edit or explain it, better please do. The police has a beat that is the drum beat. However, the singing the vocals are lie on a different beat than the drum beat. So Kevin being the lead singer and drummer of a police cover band means he is a musical savant. That was I was there once they settled on the police. That is what they settled on. That they were making. That the joke that was never explained or never known. But this is how it was explained to me. Because I was like, this does rock me playing rocks? They're like, yeah, it's impossible to do that, and I'm like, what do you what do you mean that?
Uh?
Riker's from joke. That is why we settled on me being a drummer lead singer of love.
That's very funny.
I really like that. Okay, good, Okay good.
I also don't play the drum. Don't know. If you guys are aware, and people consistently come up and talk to me about you know, they'll start saying anything drum related and I have no clue what they're talking about but another story, this story time, I said, so I did, as Jen at least knows I play golf. I play a lot of golf. And I played in Alice Cooper's who was a big golfer charity golf event in Arizona. And I got picked up from the airport by someone with his in his foundation. We're driving back. I will never forget this moment. And he said, I'd never done this event before, and I'd never met Alice personally. He said, okay, so you know tonight really low stress. I wish I could remember who they are because you guys would know. But I know, like Tommy Thayer from Kisses There, you know, big Eagles guy, guy who wrote Hotel California, Alice Cooper obviously in all these musicians, uh Adrian Young from No Doubt, and they had sort of assembled an all star band and they were going to like play a concert before golfing the next day. And he goes, so, no pressure, Alice. The last song he wants to sing is schools Out for Summer. So before right before that song, if you'll come up and you'll play the drums, oh on schools Out for Summer. You know, everyone's gonna come up and do a part, and I go, I'm like in the backseat in the car like a mini van, and I'm like, I don't play the drums. And all I can think is Alice Cooper, like, let's bite the head off a rat, like, let's like destroy something that I'm going to make him mad before I've ever met him. And I'm like and they're like, no, no, no, seriously, it's it's fine. It's like and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, for real, I cannot do this. This is not this is not something that I can accomplish. And by the end it was me playing drums on the show. But it was but it went well. The first one was a no was there was a there was a curtain and there was a drummer right behind me, and I was faking. I had pads on the drums. I was. You weren't hearing anything that I was doing. Eventually I was. But this would be like four days of rehearsals to get the basic moves down for a song, like we're doing this song for these four songs. Yeah, and so that would be like twelve days of me.
Rehearsal you're not whipping up a song with Alice Cooper and all these like rock legends.
I can't know. And today today even a song I played on that, no Chance, no Chance, no.
Chance, funny yeah, memory, Yeah.
Exactly, Kevin, you know something about that. People have already seen you play the bass though, right. I already played the bass.
On that and the guitar and the bass the first season locally, and then luckily at some point they gave that up because it's like I, first of all, do not know how to do that, and then I'd spend so much time. No, yeah, I had taken lessons growing up. It never stuck that no, but no, no, no no, I was like you when I'm like, I took lessons growing up. I went for like two weeks and learned two chords type of thing. When I was like ten, I have zero ability to play the guitar, and yeah, they had me do it and the pilot I did. Don't stop believing. And all I and poor guy who was teaching me to or he was like an excellent and incredible guitar player, and he looked like he had never taught someone before and was like really confused about what was going on because I was like, I don't actually need to know how to play. This guy, he told, because he wanted me to like play. I'm like, no, no, doesn't have to be like that good. I just need to look like it.
Yeah, so they did.
Your music live for this band. You shot that live me your music because like if somebody's playing behind you, they're gloring sound.
Yeah, they were a recording sound. Yeah.
Wow.
Never went And in fact, I will say this of all of the because I ended up doing a bunch of songs actually by the end all told, I mean, I don't know, you know, there were a couple iterations of the band that happened. I mean, eventually I started playing with Ed Helms and Craig Robinson, who if you know either of them, they are musical geniuses. And that's an exaggeration, both of them. Oh wow, yeah, play everything and like he is a can harmonize like a motherfucker is singing. Yeah, but I mean like he's playing in concerts on the banjo, which is not an easy instrument, and he can play everything. Craig, if you hum him a tune of a song he's never heard before, he can start playing it on the piano. This is not a joke. Greg Craig Robinson like, so I'm like, hey, guys, when are we gonna I'm like, I'm like a nerdy no no pun intended, the nerdy high school kid, like, hey, guys, when don't we get to practice? And they're like, yeah, yeah, we got it, And I'm like, no, I don't have it. Actually, I don't have it at all.
It's so unfair being around people like that.
Yeah, no, I know, but yeah, I mean, look, I don't have to do it anymore. I don't have to sing anymore.
You never know.
I I talk sing with the best of them. I can carry a tune, but I can't like sing sing.
Yeah yeah, yeah, neither can It's okay.
We never had to do it live, so never you never had to do it lot, Yes we did.
We recorded a handful of seven hundred songs, a handful live. Seven I recorded maybe three of my songs live, but that's because there was acting involved, so like the sound was important.
I didn't want in the pilot and that was it. They go, oh, he needs some help, so we're not going to do that again.
The only the only one that I did not out of all of mine was because Steve Miller said no, I sang the Steve Miller Live and then they brought me in they because that was early too, they brought me in, Yeah, and I recorded whatever we sang for that I can't even remember.
What it was, and they said no.
When we came on your show, we talked about how we got into all of this miss because obviously these shows were life changing for all of us here, and your show is life changing for me in a number of ways as well. But how did how did all of that happen? Was it just the normal audition?
Yeah? So look, I I mean, I think the thing that you know, and as I've talked to you guys, as I have, you know, talked to someone's we're like over two hundred guests. Now, I feel like I'm I can say that I'm unique in the sense that I truly never thought about film and television, Like I really didn't. And it wasn't like an aspirational thing like I can't ever do that. I'm from Georgia and how could that ever happen? It wasn't that. It just truly, and I know this sounds dumb, it just wasn't a thought I just I didn't. I did it like, oh, that's that's what I want to do. So I did a theater as as I call it an activity, right, like, I'm good at this. I'm going to do this for a while. And then I went to this program at Northwestern University between my junior and senior year. It's called the Something, but they call them the Chair Cherub Program. And it's only one summer between junior and senior year of high school. And you go and it's I don't know, six eight weeks and you're there at Northwestern University. So for me, this is like, okay, wait, I'm a high school student. Now I'm in a dorm. I'm getting independence for the first time. Great time to be in Chicago in the summer. Yeah. But I suddenly it was like my brain was opened and I was like, oh, oh, this is like creating a character and actions and objectives. Oh, it's not just about having good instincts and being loud. It's oh I Oh, I like this. And it was sort of in and around there that I was like, Okay, this is what I want to do. And I went to college for it. I went to SMU and Dallas conservatory training program there and and then started doing theater and truly thought that's what my life was like. And I was doing big houses, regional theater houses, the Guthrie and Berkeley rep and uh, you know, so forth and so on around the country and some of New York and and then it was it was just an idea. Theater is hard one. It's one of earlier and you have eight shows a week, you have Mondays off, no one has it off. It's very hard. It's just a very difficult life. And I had had a weird friend, uh, not a weird friend. I had had a a weird trip with a friend that sounds weird too, a friend who was in LA and I visited and kind of oddly, I mean, being from the East Coast, I say oddly fell in love with it. Like I was like, oh this is nice. Like there's the weather is not like it. It can be a very very seductive place. You catch it the right week and you know that sun sun is shining. And I remember my friend lived around Westwood and Westwood and there was this magical place called the Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf and you can sit outside with the palm trees when the wind blowing and the Westwood Hills and you see La.
Yeah, it's so beautiful over there.
And so I eventually was like, Okay, you know, I'm going to I'm gonna I'm gonna come out to l A. I'm gonna give this thing a try. And there was it was part of why, you know, when I left college, I was I knew for myself and I bully, you can make fun of this about me, but I knew even then, like sleeping on someone's sofa in a studio apartment in New York or l A, like that's not really me, like that, that's not really And so you know, I had moved to Minneapolis where you could make a living and I could have, you know, a place, and that's sort of where I started professionally in theater and then started traveling around from there. But I didn't, like, you know, it wasn't for me, you know, the weather. I wasn't from that area. I had no sort of uh family connection there, not that I did in LA either, but I just.
Like the weather does make a big differ, Like to do you just tons of like nature things. It's when you're lonely and desperate for work.
Yeah, and my and my and my friends. You know, I have friends who are still back in Minnesota. And I'm like, do you realize, because you you start to not realize when you're there how much work it is to just be like, oh, I need to go get the mail. Let me put on snow pants and a jacket and gloves to walk down my driveway like this is like it's that and then come inside and shake off the snow and take it off and yeah, warm up from the journey. Not that I had a long driveway. It's just an example. But I so I came to LA, and you know, and I had been working for a time doing this and came to oh so similarly, I knew I was not I was not capable of like living on someone's sofa. For me, I thought the coming out and I don't know if you guys did I, but coming out to LA for a pilot season that didn't feel real to me either. Like again, for me, I was like I'm either there or I'm not. And I so when I was ready, I moved, I moved, I packed up the the you know. Yeah, it was like and I I think I had said I'm going to give it a year because I was turned down theater work. That was the other thing. It took me a couple of years after I had decided, because I was I was getting work, and I was like, how can I how can I say no? And so I said a year. But I think really even ahead, I was like, I'm gonna, you know, a couple of years, I can, I can do this. And then a couple of months later I met the folks on the office and so once I was out it, it did happen very quickly. But but I will say is that, you know, when I get asked about like advice for young actors or whatever, for me, I think the biggest thing. I think the only reason that it happened for me. Then I mean that there there's obviously a lot of factors and timing and luck and you know, understanding characters and so forth. But for me, I've joked like I was the poorest person that had the highest subscription of at the time TiVo that existed. I watched everything, and it's always confusing to me, actors especially, and you get it a lot in the theater, right, which is like I don't watch television, right, and I'm like why, asshole, Like, if you're wanting to work in that in that medium, you need to understand what's going on right and what's you know what stylistically these shows. If you get an audition for something and you have no idea stylistically what the world is that's being created, like you're giving yourself a disservice. So I had done that and I found because of the British version of The Office the Office, and I was like, oh, well this I get like, this is this is me? And so yeah, I mean my rep at the time I said to them that this is the show, and I mean, looking back at it now, the other thing is I was so young and inexperienced that I did things at the time or expected things at the time which were so stupid, Like it's so like, oh, of course this is the show I should be on, right and now when I say that, and now people know who I am and I say that and they're like, what are you talking about? I don't care somebody else like what do you?
A bit of delusion can really go a long way, though, because.
I think it's so valuable.
Yeah, you do need to be that as someone who you moved here from Minnesota, turning down actual work where you knew that there was going to be a check in your bank. Like you have to have the little delusion to be like one, I'm going to go out there because I can do this and like, oh this show, Yes, this is the one. I gotta do it because you the only person that believes in you were propelling you forward? Is you, Like you're the only one who really cares, right, and so like if you're not out there like advocating for yourself and just a little bit of the drag delusion of it all, right, then you know there's a there's a line to walk there. But just a little bit really helps.
We lost jaded assholes now it's very hard to find sometimes. I'm not gonna lie, but I do believe that you need it.
Worry, Jenna, I have your delusion for you whenever.
Yeah, you do. And I know you really do need a little bit of the magical thinking. It's very important.
How that's crazy that happened so quickly for you, that's amazing. Yeah, like when you how was it walking on? So like the Allison Jones cat you first of all that, Yeah.
Well you know who who? Who? I first met with because again I was a totally unknown person from Minnesota. First person I read with was Phillip Smith at Allison Jones because she Phillis was casting associate for Alison Jones, and so I went into a small office. M hm, ye met her and then met Allison. But yeah, she was the first person I met in I mean in in that well on that show. I mean, yeah there was a part of that show. I mean she was casting it at the time, and then yeah, it was her reading with me and others that everyone wants to take credit for it now, but I at least I believe it is possible. Ken Kuoppas, the director, was like, she needs to be in the show, and so yeah, that's how Phillis got cast.
Wow, how many auditions do you have to do for it?
Honestly, I I I had that pre read. I don't remember if I No one's ever asked me that I have thought about it when other people have been have that, I've asked other people. I think I did that pre read. I don't remember, and I remember meeting Allison. I don't remember if I read with her again that day, but I only went in once.
You've got to be Shop after that.
After that, no, I went in. I went in once, and that's when I met you know, Greg Daniels, Ben Silverman, Ken Kwappas everyone, Terry Weinberg, everybody from Revellie. I mean it was like once thirty people. Yeah, and I read you guys know you guys know this. I don't want to repeat stories. Why. I was auditioning for Stanley.
That's right, right, and then read.
As Kevin.
Yeah, in the in the bigger audition you read for Kevin.
I read for I read for Stanley as though I were Kevin Ken and took a gamble again. What I have done that now? No, I mean now, I probably would have said, no, this other part is better for me, and they may have said, okay, goodbye. But now at the time I read that, and Allison chased after me, so so I read. I read that. The second day that I went there, I read for Stanley. I went in reading for Stanley, and then they ran after me and had me come back and read for Kevin or you know, like like the same day, like I waited around. Yeah, crazy read for Kevin. And that's it.
It was really bold. That's really a bold choice to make.
I was so sure, like I just got that character. I just I just knew Yeah, I just saw it.
Yep, yeah and yeah, I mean you obviously feel that though from the other side of the table like they did, like they yeah they got it, Yeah, yeah they did.
I mean to their credit obviously I could have a ton of credit, but.
I like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's one of those things too, where it's like everyone's just got to be lined up that day. Everyone showed up with the right attitude. They saw you come in there, and they're like, oh, yes, get that joke. Yes, yeah, that is crazy. I love Alison Jones because she also would do things like that, yes, like I feel like there are I have not been in a lot with a lot of casting directors who would try different things. Have you come back in immediately and like try this instead. She was like the most malleable casting director, like creative right would sit there and be like what about this? What about that? And a lot of people out there. Anytime I go into that office, I'd see different people. Like normally, you know, you start like the circuit, you see the same people they're always up against. It was always different people in there.
Well you know, the other thing that she did she did was and well I shouldn't say her. I I'm sure it was partly, uh Greg Daniels, So I don't. I don't want to give credit to the wrong person here. But they there was no test on the show because what they what And so maybe this is Greg. I'm sorry, this is just literally my memory. But she was a part of it. And because we're talking about her, they said the collective they said standing this show is not about standing up, the opposite of Glee, right, This is not about standing up in front of a bunch of executives testing for studio and network executives, like trying to make people laugh, you know, like that. It was all about like a subtle look to the camera. So they set it up on the office set and filmed intimately and interactions between people and allowed that camera to be a character, you know, because it was the documentary. Allowed that camera be a character. They filmed that and I think, I mean, I'm sure they had to give three choices or whatever, but I but if they're editing it, they can adjusted how they wanted to and then sent the choices to there. So there was not like.
A film some sort of like their version of like whatever. That was like a screen.
Test essentially, like a screen test. Yeah, it was like a screen test as opposed to what it typically is for anybody listening that you don't know, like a network test where you it's like a theater class, right where two people are reading a scene together. That is a test. Is a network test. You walk into a room and you're like, Hi, this is Brian and he is reading for Kevin. And then you have a reader and you're just up on stage, or sometimes there's two of you together reading and Greg. I'm sure it was Greg, but Greg and Allison were like we no, we can't do this show like that. Ye tell you who you want?
Smart, very smart. What was it like shooting the pilot, like shooting the first like initial episodes before anybody saw it.
Yeah, so the first one. And I found this out when I you know, when I when I when I wrote the sort of the book about the story that they that Greg kept the pilot essentially a shot for not shot for shot, but essentially the same Americanized version of the British pilot. But the reason is fascinating, the reason that he did that, because I was like, why would you do that, like, why didn't you want to put your stand on it? You know whatever. There were things that didn't work, and he said it had become such a success that he felt like his job on the pilot was to create the world of dunder Mifflin in the pilot because he felt like because they were doing the same script and it had been such a success, he wasn't going to get noted to death about the script. That's why he chose that, because he was like, what you are you? How can you how can you argue with this? And so that's how he sort of got it passed through. And then we were only given five more episodes that first year, so it was a total of six, and you know, it was very early and you know, Steve's character, Michael Scott, was very mean, and the audience response was, I mean, the fact that we were able to come back for a season two is great. The truth is, there are some of our best episodes, but diversity Day, sexual harassment, basketball episode. You know, but I remember thinking, because you know, at the time, we had no laugh track. It was the camera was moving around and there were all these things that were different. We all knew there was sort of an uphill battle that like, would people give it a chance? But I knew that if they did, what was happening was something special because partly about on our very second episode, which was Diversity Day, we were talking about real issues in comedy that hadn't happened since all in the family. There was like twenty to thirty years where nobody would talk about issues in comedy, had needed just funny, don't make a don't talk about race, don't talk about sexuality, don't talk about you know, and suddenly we're doing episodes like Diversity Day, yay, witch Hunt, sexual harassment, healthcare, you know, all of those things which I was like, oh, we talk about that in comedy, We'll leave that to the dramas. But I knew it was it was. It was smart and and and important and if if people gave us a chance, I knew we were doing something cool.
There was something about did you guys always film on the same stage from the very beginning?
You moved? We moved, Yeah, we the first six episodes. I think this is what it was called Culvert Studios. It was very bizarre space off of Losienega like South, and there was there was a single sound stage and upstairs was production offices and so still I assume our office of dunder Mifflin was the production offices at that Culver studio. Wow, that's what it was.
Crazy.
So we shot in their office. The soundstage was like where we ate lunch. Like there was nothing on the soundstage. I don't shot money anything on the sound stage. Wow.
I feel like that intimacy of like all of you working together sort of what feels like the little engine that could, or like you're doing these things that like might be controversial. People in America may get it or they may not get it. Yeah, And because of that, it's one of those things that you feel watching all of you together, or like was there sort of like this instant sort of familial bond or chemistry, And if there was, like was it because of you all believed in the show so much?
I think there was that. I think there was also I think there I think there were three or four things. I think I think there was that there was true belief in the show. Two was nobody was known or a star at all at the time. I mean, we've going into season two. Steve Carell became like the biggest the comedy movie star on the planet, but he was not before nothing. So there were there was that, and there was a lot of people who, you know, something like this she would have to tell you, but like Malaura Harden, who played jan had been on like fourteen pilots and none had ever gone. You know. There was a lot of like stories like that. And then I think that I don't think this was I mean, I give Alison Jones credit for everything. I don't think that this was necessarily intentional, But I think that also there were two things. There was the collection of us happened to have a great diversity in terms of experience, and what I mean by that is, like, just to name a few, like Rain Wilson and myself, we were straight theater people who had like Coroll, Angela Kenzie, Oscar Nuniez, improv people, BJ Novak, Craig Robinson, stand up you know, comedians, and so we had that whole base. So everybody's kind of learning from each other or like has a different sort of perspective on what we're doingfind with the fact that the way the show was shot in by and large, especially early one set closed walls. We were all there all the time because the camera was moving around. So we were sixty seventy hours a week and we were all there and so we just you know, it's like a sports analogy of something like you know, if you're there and you practice and you're stuck together and you're traveling together, eventually you know exactly where everybody wants the ball, where they want the ball delivered. How you know, oh, if I do this, this is going to make this is going to give this person this joke because that's what they and that sort of stuff. You can't I mean, you can't, you can't teach. I know that's like so cliche, but it was just about that, which I mean, that's what made us expensive, right, I mean, we're there's there's there's there, there is a number one on the call sheet, of course, but there's kind of we're all there just.
As much, totally totally, and.
So that was I think that was a big part of it.
How quickly once things started airing or because you sort of had the reverse effect of like what you said of normal shows, where you just kept getting bigger, where for us, we came out the gates pretty big, and we got really big by the second season, and then you know, the people started to get over us. Yeah, for you guys, because you just moved out here, you shoot this pilot, you guys get six episodes hoping for season two. You do get a season two, six episodes for season two, which is nuts, Like, we're not really sure about this, but we like it, so we'll keep going. I mean, how much had your life changed or did it, because in those days you were getting a normal network show was twenty two episodes. That is, you're getting six, Yes, a life changing amount of money for people. We were all so brokenly started and you adjust accordingly, I think to that. You know, we were there for ten months out of the year shooting the show. You're doing season one six episodes, season two six episodes, but then it's also becoming really popular. Steve Carell's becoming a gigantic star.
Yeah.
I mean, so season two we did six episodes and we stopped. So let's say we started. We went back in like July, end of July, shot through August, probably Labor Day. We stopped and like it something like the next week, our first episode was going to air, but they returned our trailers and we cleaned them out and we went home and was they was sort of like, hope we get to do some more. And by then, forty year old virgin, we had a good lead in this show My Name is Earl, which you talked about peaking early. That peaked early. We were after them and we just started picking up and then it was it was six and they were like, okay, you can do four more. Okay, you can finish the thirteen. Okay, you can do two more. I mean it was like at some point it was like you can do two more, you can, but at that point we were once we took that first break, Yeah, the show was airing and we were shooting, and the writers started thinking about others. So we ended up doing twenty two that year. Oh wow. But we as we had started and left, like you know, it was probably we probably came back in October or something like that right after after you know, October, mid October or something when we when we were given more episodes. But you know, then Correl wins the Golden Globe. Yeah, and by Christmas time, that Christmas episode, which was our first Christmas episode, got like over ten million viewers, and then by February we were getting more than My Name is Earle in the ratings at a half hour time slot, and so when it was like all at February, the network was finally like, okay, you can finish twenty two episodes, like we'll give you the rest of the order within a week or two. They ordered twenty two for the next year, so it was like right then it was oh, okay, And that's when things changed. Yeah, Like that's when like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna, We're gonna be around for a while.
What a crazy work environment, a trickle of episodes two more, one more. I don't under like, how does that feel being on the side of what were the writers prepared? Because you were saying the writers were already thinking ahead, but like that's crazy, like whip up ten more.
Yeah, but but I think the writing room was small, but it was just like the biggest all star writing staff. And I mean that like like in terms of like future accomplishments. I mean it's Mindy Kaling, it's bj Novak, it's Paul Lieberstein, it's Jensilata, it's Lee Eisenberg and Jean Stepnitzky. Like it's literally like now everyone like either running shows or writing movies or like whatever, and I'm sure I'm apologies for whoever I just missed in that short list, but it was small, right because they'd ordered six so I think that you know, there were maybe where they were like six writers. I think even Paul Lieberstein was not a well maybe that was the first season. So anyway, it yeah, it was, it was, it was. It was crazy. And then you know, so we finished by the way, we finished those twenty two episodes that we you know, we had just been given the you know, ability to do them, and then went back to recharge to do season three, and before we started shooting season three that season two that happened like that we won the Emmy four. So, I mean, this is all of it. It's just crazy, like not looking back on it, like how did this happen?
I feel like the theater training was probably good for some of that too. You're just like you're just rolling with it. You're on set, do the work.
But adults, you guys, are like, oh maybe true, more like maybe i'll pay my rent, Like we really kids, you know what I mean, They're like, we're like how does this shit work? Like we get greenlit? What does that mean? Do we get to do more. Yay, that's fun. But like these were all established adults at the time, Like, yeah, sort of, I.
Know that thirty is kind of an adul I was thirty, Wow, Like I was young young? Yeah, so young, that's young.
I mean was yeah, no, that's a point.
But I can't remember exactly how much older I was Jenno's you know, close to that.
Okay, that's I.
Mean, there was a group of us. I mean I looked older, and there was like I mean, I don't want to give anybody's age away or whatever, but well not even age, just experience, you know, like Melaura Harden, like she had been working since a child and had you know, done a ton of things. Yes, you know, correl with Second City and The Daily Show and stuff like that, like you know, he was established.
Yeah, for sure, that's fair. That's fair. No, you were young, yeah, I mean wow, that's like some of our guys were older when when you started. So that's yeah, okay, fair enough. I take it back, I take it back. Okay. Before we go, we have a couple questions. It's almost July fourth. It's my favorite time of the year because there's barbecues and you just came out with your second barbecue cookbook. Yeah, so you're you're a barbecue connoisseur. Tell us about your new book.
All right, Well, first I have to ask you guys a question, because you're in southern California. What is if someone says to you this came up this morning, by the way, That's why I question. If someone says, hey, you want to come over for a barbecue, what does that mean?
Oh, I have a couple of friends with smokers, smokers at their houses.
Okay, so that would be they're going to smoke something.
Okay, ribs, maybe hot dogs and hamburgers. That's kind of what I'm Okay.
Yeah, same. It depends. If I'm in California, That's what I'm expecting. If I'm in Texas, where I'm originally from, it's a bit of a different answer. What is text would that answer be? That would be more of the the smoked things someone someone definitely has a smoker, probably, but there's also going to be like trement as well, you know, like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bread. It's a different different So.
I'm with you. I mean, being from Georgia, that's what I would say. Somebody told me today they were like I'm from North this is a breast interview. I had. Lovely lady, Absolutely, at least be nice. I'm not saying anything mean about you. She said, what does it mean? She said, I'm gonna ask you a personal question. If I said, come over to my house and have a barbe and have a barbecue with me, what does that mean. I paused for a while because she said personal question. That put my brain somewhere else. Aside from that, I said, I said, well, like like doing a slow cooked smoking something. She was like, oh, okay. She said, I went out to California and everyone said a barbecue was Hamberg's and hot dogs, and I was like, that's fairy. She said, I'm from in North Carolina. If you invite me over for a barbecue, it has to be a whole hog.
I was like damn.
I was like, yeah, I'm definitely that's exactly what I said. Like, I'm in the middle. I agree, Yeah, barbecue is not Hamburgers and hot dogs. But yeah, that's funny. So I'm from Georgia and I, as we've talked about, I did theater for a long time and I worked a number of times with a French director and we would have rehearsals during the day and then this is during the rehearsal process. Rehearsal during the day, then they would take a dinner break. Their dinner break was two and a half hours yea. And then they would have night rehearsals damn. And I was like, what are we doing like two and a half hours, Like let's get this done.
Yeah.
It was because he would go and cook. He would go home and he would wine and he would cook, and I mean like cook, like hyao, cook, like we're going to make dinner. And he taught me in a way or what it did for him, which then I started to buy into, which was like I am doing an activity that I enjoy and it is making the work go away. So then when I returned to it, I actually am fresh. I'm starting anew as opposed to keep thinking about it over this period of time. And so I started doing that a little bit. And then when I moved to California again because of the way you can do it all the time I do. I grill, which I won't call barbecue, but I grill and Q on the weekends and stuff. I travel a ton, but if I'm home like four or five nights a week, I'm I'm out at the grill. I enjoy it. It makes my mind two things, golf and cooking specifically at a grill or barbecue. Those things make my mind clear of work stuff, and I'm able to just focus on the activity at hand. So it is. And so I you know, I don't know if you ever heard, but there was an incident with me and chili a few years ago on UH on the office there was a there was a spillage that happened. So I had a chili cookbook, and the chili cook book it was fun. I kind of got into the culture of that, but this was this was really me. I mean, this is a passion of mine, something that I really enjoy. So I've been really excited about the response to it so far. There's over one hundred recipes in there.
That's crazy that so many recipes.
It is a lot. But part of it also is I feel like particularly slow cooking, yes, is intimidating for people because they're like, I'm gonna do this for six hours and if it turns out shitty, then what do I got? Like?
Yeah?
Thanks? So there there is some like tips that are like, look, let's not let this intimidate you. Let's start with this. Let's try this for someone like me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I wrote it for you.
Thank you.
Hey, seriously good barbecue cookbook.
Oh god, I get it, go get it. It just makes me so hungry. Do you have favorite barbecue places in Texas?
Well? I part of the inspiration for the book actually was I saw a show during the pandemic about Rodney Scott's. Oddly the we we're just talking about Rodney Scott's Whole Hog Barbecue in Charleston, South Carolina, and I drove and I flew back into the South and I had a long drive because I hadn't seen my parents during the pandemic in like eight or nine months. And I took a hundreds of mile detour out of my way to go to this spot in Charleston, which was partly the like I was thinking about doing this, this cookbook and wanted to go there and experience his So Texas. You know, Dallas is a little bit of a different breed there, which is where I spent most of my time. I couldn't name for you specifically. Part of the issue is like the and I talk about this in the cookbook. A lot of the let's just call them larger chain barbecue places. When you leave, what they want you to say is, isn't that sauce really great? But it's about the sauce. So they take meat and they just drown it in sauce and it's about the sauce. And that's the other thing that I talk about in this is like for me, biggest tip by responsibly raised meat from responsible sustainable farms. Yes, I promise you. One it's the right thing to do, and two it just tastes better. And if you are buying high quality sourced meat, it is going to taste better. You're going to feel better about it. But more you just need some rubs, some spices. You don't need to drown it in sauce. It doesn't have to be about sauce. So that's something else we talk about, all right.
Also, not a lot of great barbecue in LA, so it might have to make it.
Now, there's only a handful, all right. Before we let you go, Ryan, we usually ask at the end of this with people who are involved with glee, what is the feeling that glee he leaves you with? So I'm going to ask you, what is the feeling that the Office leaves you with.
Overwhelming gratitude? And for me now, the greatest gift that the Office gave me is and we were talking about fans earlier, but the Office gave people so much comfort in oftentimes difficult times. People serving in the military, people undergoing a family crisis of one or the other, going through a difficult medical procedure in the hospital, very sick, and the Office brought them comfort. I like to think in part because of what you talked about before, Kevin, they could see the love and the care between the characters that was happening and the stories that we were telling, and that sometimes it was mean and sometimes it wasn't pc, but there was ultimately a feeling of love. And the last line of the show is of the Office that was spoken, is there's beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point That celebration of of regular people, if I'm kind in myself, included regular looking people who have small victories that you deserve to be celebrated. And that's that's what I'm I'm grateful for that message and being a part of that and and and truly sharing.
Joy with people Yeah, it feels like that absolutely resonated with the lot of your fans, so it still does.
Yeah, yeah, Brian keeps on going. Thank you so much for being with us.
Br so good to see you, and thank you for you to see you guys.
Thank you on the back, good luck, Thank.
You, go get seriously good barbecue cookbook. It's out.
We love you.
Now, love you guys. Thank you so much.
So time to see you soon. Yes, sounds good, isn't you wonderful?
He's the best. He's literally the best. It's so interesting to hear there's so many similar similarities, I guess in the way that they felt about like the chemistry and the care and the love for the show and that making it so special and elevating it to the point where like even what he said about like what the office leaves him with, like just being really special for the fans and for just what he hopes for. I don't know, I just felt like very similar in a lot of ways.
Very similar, and it was like, these are two shows that couldn't be more different in a number of ways. They're so different. But yeah, the experience on set and the experience of how it makes the fans feel feels very familiar and having been around them, and I've said it before and I'll say it again, was such a masterclass for me, obviously in acting and being on a set, but also how to treat people on a set. They were all so kind, so good to me, and going into Glee, it really felt like being able to have spent the week with them was the best training ground I could have asked for. And you could feel that love between them. It was palpable and just how much they cared about what they were doing and how good they were, and you see it in every single episode Special Pressure. Group of people so happy that Brian came on to talk to us. We get to go on his show, like we said, which is an incredible show. You should also go listen to that, Go by Brian's book, Seriously Good Barbecue Cookbook, which is out now. And you know, maybe go watch the office episode that I'm in called Launch Party. You know, whatever you want, I won't force you, but it's a good time and you get to see seventeen year old me with highlights, So enjoy. That's a good time.
Yeah, all right, see you next time.
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