And That's What You REALLY MissedHarry Shum Jr. a.k.a. Mike Chang is locked and loaded and ready to dish on what we missed! Find out why he calls Glee the “craziest show he’s ever done.” Hear why they all say Glee brought out the best and worst in them (and what the worst was!)
Plus, wait until you hear what they used to do to make the make-out scenes more “interesting.”
And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
And Kevin An iHeartRadio podcast.
Welcome to you, and that's what you really miss podcast. I'm Tina co and Chen.
I'm Arthur Abrams, and today.
We have a very very special guest.
And it's a long one, so let's just not keep you long because we have the one, the only, well, actually the second because he's Harry Shum Junior.
That's right, but the one and only Mike Chang.
That's right. Get ready to hear some wisdom.
God, he's such a like a golden nugget of good, good thoughts.
And what's it like to be surrounded?
I don't I'll I'll never know.
We'll never know, We'll never know.
I'll never know.
We have to combine our brains to make partially one person.
Yeah, exactly, barely just skimming the surface. Here's Harry Shum.
Welcome.
Hi Harry, Hi, Hi, Thanks for having me, Thanks.
For coming on.
Yeah. You know, as the years have gone by, I feel like one of the biggest voices of reason amongst all of us is you. And because you're low key about it, Jenna and I can like talk a lot and talk to people. You're like, I don't. You're like a calm, steady force who like maybe it's as you've gotten older. So I'm like, you just speak your mind and you're always right. And I feel like we've talked about like this show in hindsight or something you've always just had like really profound wise yeah thoughts, it's like, oh, he's right about everything.
For people who are listening. I made that scrunch face kind of like when you like, you're like what.
You just take take the compliment?
Where are you every single day of my life when I'm making completely wrong in saying the wrong things?
Uh?
No, I mean I don't know where I I mean, I don't know what to say to that. I I don't, I am, But like I think it's because you're putting more, you're on a podcast that you're speaking more and I speak less, so you know your ratio is going to be different.
So I love that.
Well, I don't even know where to begin with you, because you started with us at the very beginning.
We had such a journey.
It was such a it was a rocket ship.
Yes, and then you've been on multiple other TV shows as a series regular.
Congrats on Gray's Anatomy.
That's literally I texted Kevin was like, Kerry got a rag on Gray's Anatomy. I was like, number one, I'm so happy for him because you deserve everything. You're just so such a good hard worker and a good person. But also like one of my favorite shows back, I thought.
About you, like when night and I took it on and I was just like, I thought a budget because you would obsess over the show.
You would tell like those it was a Thursday night still right. Yeah, it's just like you're just like you gotta go, I gotta go.
It was like when DVR was just starting and you're like TV, but I want to.
Watch it live, and it was it was I got.
A lot of what the show, the vibe was from you.
Wow, amazing.
Well you're welcome here.
Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you.
You did my homework for me.
I have to go back because I have to admit I stopped watching like a couple of years back, but I always come back. It's it's stood the test of time, right, and it's still so good every time I come back. So I definitely have to come and watch your you know, the new the new class. But are you having a good time on the show.
I am. It's it's really amazing that, you know, one that they brought on five new interns and you know, they're really taking good care and and and putting a lot of effort into getting to know them. Uh, and just the level of you know, being on a on a on a on a show where that it's I've said this before, but I just can't emphasize it enough that like it's going on into the twentieth season and twenty twenty years, they just got renewed and and just still working at a high level and everyone's just gracious and and still trying to make it as best as it can can be.
You know, we we've all.
Been on on projects we're at a certain year it's kind of like, all right, just uh let's just let's get it done, you know.
But this one, it's it's just it's it's it's really.
I just I feel very fortunate, but also seeing that it just it's just a constant reminder that you know, you can always refresh self, you can always you know, they have a new version.
Of you or or a way.
To do things, and and that's really that's a really cool thing to be a part of.
Right now, that's awesome.
I remember we hung a couple of months ago at Ambers little masked singer thing, and you were telling me how they were giving you like actual medical like classes or something you go to USC to actually talk to real interns or something.
We got to see surgery, we got you know, we got to go and talk to the doctors, talk to the sit down and talk to a lot of the interns that are there.
And that was just incredibly helpful to incredible.
How how they you know, you have a when you watch a show, you're like, yeah, it's not like that, and then you talk to me, to to real interns, you're like, oh my gosh, they're kind of pretty much just trying to get it all together and and a little bit of just really messy in a lot of ways. But also, you know, no different from from us other than having to like save people's lives and also have people like down your throat to try and looking over your shoulder constantly, and then having no sleep and just having all these things that what it would do to a human being essentially, And then and then I'm putting now, like especially on the show of being able to still have those the importance of I think the medical stuff, which is I think, you know, advancing it and actually questioning it and also trying to look at it and from completely different perspectives, but while also just you know, dealing with them relationship issues and why doctors marry other doctors because the dating pool is uh, you know, you don't have time to.
Look outside of work to find romance.
That's absolutely what an unvaluable resource to be able to like base you know, like you see a show on the air for twenty seasons or like this has to be so far off, like off the plot, but like to have it still grounded and given people coming.
In they run, you know, we have we have a medical director is Linda Kline and you know she's been with the show since the very beginning and you know, uh and she is just a beast and knows everyone and anybody in the medical field. Uh. And it's really amazing. You know, you have an issue is like hey, who can I go see as I yeah, I just.
Go to my friend. And I mean that's one of the that's one of the works.
That's one of the.
Ken I need, I need her.
I have this, ye go to that person.
Oh my god, this has turned into a graz recap.
No, I love it. That was my full intention was not only about me. No, it's so cool.
What do you think, how do you think like these other shows being on, like shadow Hunters, which is also awesome, and like Glee, how do you think it like.
It helped you for like where you are now?
I mean, I think all of it.
I think every single project like helps helps you in some sort of way because it informs you. I heard this quote that was really interesting because you know, I'm not saying and because none of these shows did really you know, Luckily did really really well, and then their great in their space. And but I I I look at like the things that you don't get right while you're on this show, and it's they say, it's failure is just a discovery of of of something that didn't work, doesn't work, you know, and and and I just to me, it's just every single time you're on on on a show, you're you're just figuring out whatnot, what wrong, things that you don't want to do again, you know, instead of like getting it right, because it's it's so weird, because when you get it right, it's like you don't even know if it's right. You know, it's like a director might say yeah, but you don't know if that's the best thing that you could have done. But I think like working on I feel like a in a weird way, like bouncing back and forth.
And if you were talking about those three shows, is uh.
Is that you know I've always wanted to be by Coastal and and it was my dreaming book by Coastal and then going to Toronto and working on Shadow Hunters, I'm like, uh. And then but having like family back here, I was like, oh, this is this is rough. This is what it felt like for someone to come from New York to move to LA and then all their families on the East Coast.
Like I felt that. And it's it's.
Hard, and you know, you put your get put in in a different uh headspace because one is particularly like shadow Hunters, you're in a I'm playing a four hundred year old warlock. That is it's just making out with my coast are constantly mad Da Dario and and and it's like it's a completely different thing than fleet putting makeup on every single day and getting my hair nails painted and then sometimes I couldn't get it off because the biggest conundrum that I would have is like, do I take this uh not polish polish bosh, Oh jeez, I forgot already. See I Do I take it off? Or do I leave it on since I have to come back tomorrow. And it's like this, like do I just take it off now and then? But then I don't have to put it again? These are the things I'm sure women think about. Do I take my mess scare off? I'm told to take it off because.
It's gross, yes, but people don't.
And I had moments where I'm like, why would I. It's gonna get but it's gonna come back on. It's kind of like why take a shower, You're gonna have to take it again. I am things you learn, things you learn.
Yeah, heavy mental load. You were Also you also had your daughter while you were in Toronto?
Right, is that right?
Like you No?
No, not yet?
Okay, that would have added a whole nother level of.
Yeah, you know, it would have been rough. Sometimes you're like, oh, I get two days off and you're like, oh my gosh, I haven't I feel like I haven't seen her in a week.
Because It's exactly exactly.
We were just watching Duets. Yes, it was the first Eric Stoltz episode. It was the first Mike Chang song. It was the beginning of it was was it an Asian camp?
No, that was an Asian camp that was after, but.
It was the.
Yeah and gets all.
To compete that See, I don't even remember. We just recappted. I have no memory, but I.
Just wanted to talk about, like your like the beginning of Glee for you and what that was like and what you know, what were your thoughts like when you first got a saw and where you hired. I don't even remember where you hired as a dancer and then came on like remind us, yes, uh.
What episode was that in? Like that was like because I came on in a third episode? Yeah when was Duets? What episode of.
The second season? Seconds?
Okay, yeah, So I mean at that point, just like a flash memory, I remember the day where I walked onto set kind of having a letterman's jacket and not knowing what I was about to embark on, Like I had no clue. I you know, I went did the fitting and it was a week. It was like a week, like I got a I knew I was going to work for a week, and that's that was the only contract I had.
And I walk in, and I go.
Through the hallways of Kiinley High and I walked through the lock rooms and and then I see Corey and Mark standing outside of the choir room. And you know, I don't even think I got called into rehearsal. It was just I got called on to set when you guys were about to shoot. And I met Corey, I met Mark, and then I walked in and I remember, I agreed with you, Kevin, because I I we kind of knew each other through nl.
TE days, lots of mutual friends and and and Diana because she became friends with Shelby uh because they auditioned on something.
And then you know, we we we we kind of knew each other mutually through that and and and then that's kind of kind of about it. And then Zach Woodley I never met, but like I knew of and uh and yeah, and then I remember that that was like the first experience and everyone was just so nice and happy, you know, to Yeah, no one was.
Yeah, I don't know what y'all said.
Behind bad anything bad about you ever, Like and then Heather, and then you know, I just I remember that it was like it was like what it was kind of it just felt like, oh, this is special. It would be nice to stay here a little longer.
But you know, you know how.
These things can end up where I don't get asked back, and lucky, luckily, I kept getting asked back over and over.
When we talked to Heather, she was talking about how her evolution of thinking about the show or thinking about like herself and the production, and how she had come from like the dancing world. So it was just sort of like shut up, keep your head down and just work really hard, as opposed to at some point maybe like advocating for yourself in certain situations. Did you feel like coming in from that side of it that you had because we came in intentionally knowing we were auditioning for the show, to be seen as an actor on the show, right, And so I think that perspective is very different than like you're getting hired for a week. You don't really know what you're going to be doing necessarily, Yeah, and it's you know, it evolves, they just keep having you back, Like how does that affect you? I think mentally, I think in.
Life, you know, it's like anybody who just you don't know. I think there's a beauty that I've kind of maybe I guess now I've accepted and I really enjoy it that I just don't know kind of what's going to happen next, even though I have.
Like a certain trajectory and goal that like a short term.
Goals that I do have along with the big one, but it's kind of in between that you don't know how it's all gonna unfold.
As a twenty year old, that was very very hard, like just you.
Know, you go on, you go on, and then limbo, don't know what you're doing next year in limbo. But also you know, it's interesting because Heather says that, and I think a lot of you's talked to a lot of dancers in this particular industry in Hollywood. That is pretty much kind of how you function.
You know your job to job.
You don't know what your next job is going to be unless you go on tour, and if you go on tour, you know that that will only last for a certain period of time. Then you have no job after that, and then you have to start all over again. So it's an idea of put your head down and have a fear of getting just don't get fired. That's like the worst thing you could you could do. So it's almost for me, I learned it's like just quit before you get fired, so they don't fire you. Then you're like you're dodging the bullet.
Don't overstay, You're welcome.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Just so sometimes you're self sabotaging yourself. You're just like, okay, I can feel that energy of like they might ask me to go. Then you like make it worse for yourself and then and then you keep digging yourself a whole. So like but I mean, yeah, it's it's it's a folding, you know. It was always it was always nice when you looked open up a script that's coming from me, and then there.
Was a line.
And then there's many times where there would be absolutely none, and I'd be like just looking at the script and be like cool, yeah, so I'm just gonna just gonna figure something out while I'm back there making making up stories in the background and trying to play along with y'all and then give.
Looks to y'all.
So so the camera will will somehow see that and that's.
On screen, get that screen time.
It's a it's a it was a journey and like there's there's so much technique behind it. And luckily I did extra work back in the day, so I got a little taste of that and.
They kind of amplified that when I was on the show.
It's been so nice watching season two and then each episode you have more and more and more, like when that hat started to happen, Like you guys had that great scene at library yelling at each other like fighting, it was like, oh, like, not only is Harry getting to speak, he's yelling. There's like thank god. Unfortunately, yes, it's like all dim sum related for like episodes, which is a whole other thing.
But well, yeah, I mean it is a whole other thing. Let's talk about it.
I'm just curious about your feelings as you've stepped off the Glee train for many years now, like looking back, what some of your sentiments if you feel like sharing, like about a lot of those A lot of our comedy was based around being Asian. A lot of our jokes were now I know they were laughing at like everybody was.
Kind of getting made fun of for their own.
Things, but ours was very race forward, and so I'm just curious, like what your reflections are on that now in the time that we're in now.
Yeah, I think as I've grown grown.
Older and.
Being more reflective and looking back at a time that was I think just very difficult to one two to talk about those things with people who are writing those things. And now I've learned that I can I think about it first and then feel like it is worthy of taking someone's time to talk about it.
And most of the time I think it is.
And most of the time you can kind of do your own thing to make sure to spin it the way that doesn't feel like that way, because sometimes I don't think everything needs a conversation, And it's given me a lot more confidence to speak on something where it's like, you know, if you're gonna make a joke, I always think, like, just make it funny and creative, and if it's not, then don't do it. You know. I just think there's like because there's a sense of truth, and it's also you can appreciate someone who spent a lot of time writing something that is well thought out and understood and comes from like a place of complete understanding as opposed to I'm just gonna make fun of this thing. Yeah, you know, so I always look at it that way from the other side, because you know, we sometimes get too much into our feelings and then being like, well, I'm offended by that thing and offended by this thing, and you know, I've learned to not do that, and looking back at you know, it's just I hate to say this because it's so cliche, but it was a different time where you only could You can only do so much. Either you had to choose to do it or you chose to not be part of it, and that that is a.
Very hard thing.
And you look back at people who were gaining so much recognition now to even like getting to hang around like James Hong, and I remember the fun part. Funny part about James Long is that this dude has been hustling for so long. And I remember him coming onto the Glee set. He was right by where I don't remember, the parking lot where we have our trailers, and I remember him coming up to me and he was to say, hey, this show is really popular. I think it was like in the first season or like the top of second thing. He's like, this show is very popular. He was probably shooting something or in a meeting and I was like, oh crap, it's a James Long And he's like, yeah, yeah, you're You're one of the guys on the show, right. He's like cool, cool, He's like so he put out his card with this like it's like a headshot, but like a little card with his number. He's like, hey, if you you know, he ever need anyone looks like me, give me a call or hand it to whoever you need to. And I never told him that story, but I got to hung out and hang out with him at the Oscars. Yeah, to see that kind of like like about ten years and for him, you know, I think he's been in the business for over fifty years. To see what he's seen to and to what we experience on this show. Even though we can, we can dismantle it and look at however, you know, however we want to look at it. You see that progression. I saw that progression, and you know, we got to at least do things that weren't completely about being.
What we look like.
And you know, I take that as a victory, and you hope now you look at the generation now and you're saying, well, they don't even have to do that anymore. They don't even have to choose between that, and if they do, then it's it's they have a lot more power to to speak up on. So I I like to say that our contributions have sticking in there and doing it, and it might not have been the one hundred percent what everyone.
Agrees is the best way to do it.
Uh, we stuck out there and put an example out to what not to do again and to what to do to make uh, to make better or do better. And I just think that's that's wonderful. You know, at that time I didn't quite feel that way, but now I do seem just like being able to to see like key Ki Kwai Kwan when they went in the war and know what he's been through in the eighties and then leaving you know he went the other way, and to see that happen now is I think, such a beautiful thing. So I always I look at that now and talking to y'all and about just this is out of all the shows that I've worked on, whatever we worked on, this is the hardest show that I think no one will ever understand what we've done, what we've been through, what we've done, what we've been a part of. It's it's crazy, just like just all the things that we went through. I think it will go down history is one of the craziest shows ever exists all around.
You heard it from Mary people, you heard it from then.
You don't believe.
A big and big, big big movies, TV shows. It really was. It really was such a god, what a wild ride.
You've been a part of so many like special and groundbreaking projects like hear you talk about you know what you just said, It's like, yeah, and then you got to work with our mutual friends that you even better friends with John Chu and Crazy ri jasions and then get to go to everything all at once like you've been like those are cultural changing projects. Yeah, and like Glee was its own weird phenomenon. You're now on a legacy like one of the most I mean famous shows of all time. And I feel like, I mean, do you feel like going through all those things like gives you the I don't know capacity to be able to like be a part of Oh god, let's say something special. I didn't mean to say that. Wow, I guess, oh, but you know it's it's like to watch someone like you who's so nice and like work so hard and deserves all of that. And then because each of these things I think comes with like their own unique like responsibility in a way. Yeah, do you felt that on each project? Like do you going from Glee to these things that it feels like, oh, this is going to be When people have talked about Glee like, no, we had no idea, so it happens. You can't can't predict that. But like crazy rich asients came out and everything the ever all at once came out and it felt like they changed the world in so many ways.
Wow. I I don't want I always try and think like how did I get here?
What did I do? Like, I just don't. I don't think.
I don't. I think it was very little me in this in the sense of my doing because if I would have wrote it way before, if I if I knew.
That this was all going to happen. But I think it.
Attributes the people that I've gotten to come in contact with. I think throughout all of these interesting projects is I think what really influenced me on taking whatever step that I took, you know, the different steps, and I like to connect the dots looking backwards. Now I look at even even even you and you Jenna and Kevin, like why I want to come on and talk to you because I genuinely love love you too, because I think during that time on Glee, when I also felt like I was not a part of the group, you both always made me feel.
Part of the group.
And it was you know, it was always I remember that feeling when and I think for the most part, I think a lot of people do and you know, I think both of you did did that for me, but even even even a lot of people at the studio, it was just this. It brought the best out of people. And I think there's there's parts where it brought the worst out of people, but the best was was making me feel like even I know during UH with certain places that we would go to for events that you know, I wasn't supposed to be there, like I shouldn't have been there as my status quote unquote status, as as the player that I was in the group. It was always a welcomings like you should come too, and then we can try and then sometimes like we can't get you to come because of the logistics, but like we should come even like on tour, I was like, are we going to tour? Like are we doing these things? And am I going to that event? Am I going to upfront? Am I doing all these things? And or even award shows to like you know, you always look at like well always looked at well, who's the leads in this? And then anyone else doesn't matter in a way, it sometimes feels like that. But for that I always got to join and be part of it. So I was I was very I remember those things and and and feeling that that I should be able to try and give back to others that that that I can see that were like me when I first started. Is I think, is this engine that keeps ongoing? And I've noticed that that's been kind of the uh, the theme of these particular projects that I just kind of felt and I don't know if that's just the energy that you know, I believe in, you know, you attracting a certain energy and then you're giving off that certain energy and going up to leading to like giving everything everywhere. It was just felt like the penultimate of like, oh this these are the people that that that comes with age, that comes with experience, that comes with being able to to go through through the fire, and and and and and know that, oh, this is an experience like no other. And I hope that other people get to experience this feeling of camaraderie filmmaking that that is at its highest level, meaning that you get to do what you want to do and not worry about what people are going to think. And then I feel like that movie really did that. And I think in a lot of ways, the show Glee, you know, really did that as well. They took a lot of chances and sometimes it didn't work, and a lot of times it did. And I think that's that's that's something that should be commended with. I think these these projects that I've seen that we get to be I get to be apartments some that you know, they're very structure and that this is the way they do it and it's worked, so don't change it.
And I love that.
I think that's just going to every different space and kind of adapting to the environment and then seeing what else you can put that is that that is a personality trait that you have that that makes makes it a little more as you say, Kevin Special.
Very good, very good.
Well, that's I mean, I do think it's the energy that you give, and you're always like such a team player. And I hate that word because it feels like now these days it means like, oh, there's such a team player, they're just going to be walked all over like And I feel like at some points we were that right in our experience, at least in at Gleade any other fests in my life.
But you you were a team.
Player, You worked hard, you were a voice of reason, like we said, and just really tried to find the best and appreciate and the gratitude within the thing that we were doing. We were like, Okay, take a step back, look at what we're doing. This is like there's a bigger picture here that's bigger than all of us. And I think that's kind of like a lot of the time that got me through. And I think also having you be a voice of reason when yes, you said like Glee can brought out the best in us, and it also did definitely brought out the worst in us and me and like I felt that way, I saw sides of myself that I had never seen before that I never want to see again. And it was helpful to have like you and Kevin, but particularly you, who was an Asian man who worked in Hollywood as a dancer. There was this specific mentality and this specific feeling that I think we understood.
It's like it was hard.
It was really hard sometimes and you couldn't speak up and you couldn't do things that other people got away with, and that was really tough. But to have like friends and you know, comrades to kind of like dig through the trenches with was like just oh yeah.
Those favorite moments when we like get off work and just go and and hang and just talk for.
Hours and hours and yeah, and you know.
There was very It's funny you go on large mond even during lunch and just our large our large month visits. Yeah, and I that those are the moments I savor, you know, like whatever whatever, you kind of go through it. And it's interesting because like I've been doing a lot of like extremely hot and cold showers, like hot showers and cold showers. And when you talk about that of the lowest low and highest high, like that spectrum that you kind of you see the edge of like where you can what you can feed you when you can handle, and then anything in between seems just pretty much like it's pretty easy if you if you know how to like not fall into one or the other too too long. And I just think that's like that's the greatest gift too, because you know, some people I can see like just break and if they they hear they have like a two hour rehearsal like to dance. I'm just like, okay, that's that's like nothing, nothing we've been through, you know.
And I was just like I got it.
You're asking me to go here and here and Here's like.
We literally were like we didn't even know where we were at at the time, and just like pulling in rehearsals and then doing shooting one episode, then shooting another episode, and then going doing doing uh uh pre records and then and then somehow Prescott thrown into and into it and in the in the middle day and then so and someone is like recording while we're shooting. It's just like it was like, you know, crazy chaos that I think was like I look back as like a the the boot Camp that I don't think could could exist anymore.
That's right. I don't think anybody wouldout it absolutely not.
There's no way we all would have been fired immediately for a number of reasons.
Somebody mental health day, thank you donal things.
Yeah, it would not. I remember thinking of like if Harry started to lose it.
Oh, there was a couple of times.
Yes, it was like.
Watching your dad cry for the first time where I was like, oh no, because you can get used to a lot, you know, and you don't necessarily really know where the barometer is anymore because you're just like, oh, it moves incrementally, and then all of a sudden Harry snaps. You're like, oh, wait, this is bad, isn't it. Yes, it really freaks me out. And it was like, Okay, if Harry's mad, I can get mad, I can be fired up.
It was more a lot of it was more because I felt like I was very I was very observant, and I watched y'all because y'all had way more to do than I did in the sense of like, you know, you guys have more lines.
More pressed to do, more pre records. You know, you were there.
I was there. That's not to say like I don't think it was a kind of Olympics, like who has it, Like worse.
Who has more?
But I got to see that, and it would that is what would anger me when certain things were not put in a you guys, weren't given a I wouldn't say fair space, because life isn't fair, but like, you know, just a way to decompress or or a way to like handle something, because this is just the way it is. And that's when I kind of, you know, I think it was a lot of that was was kind of where I broke a couple of times because it just it was just it was just wrong. And and and now to to to be able to talk about it, it feels fine because y'all, y'allow Gray, going up, Gray, y'all, y'all.
You got you got, you got three. I need a fourth stroller in the back.
We need another one up front. I got another one in front. Don't worry. You better believe it.
I'm like, oh my god, we have too much I have. I'm like, I don't have that much stuff. I have too much stuff.
I want you to have a stroller to push the stroller.
Yeah, I would love being stroller right now.
If somebody could push me around in a goddamn stroller like my daughter's life. I would be like some they have it, they have it good. They get she gets meals, meals. I'm like shoving like chips in my face to like just make it through the day. I feel like prepped me for motherhood though, because motherhood is like the ultimate multitasking, and I'm like, this is nothing.
Compar Glee. Glee was like wrangling twelve children at one time.
Oh my gosh. And personality, you only have one.
That's right, that's right, that's right.
She's big. It's a big personality. But still, Harry, do you remember I have this one memory of us. We have a lot of Mike and Tina memories and they're really fun, but I have one memory that I laugh at a lot. I giggle about because we had to kiss a lot on the show, like a lot, a lot, like more than most couples, I feel like. But Eric Stoltz, we was never scripted for us, and we were at prompt anyway. I think Leah was singing Jar of Hearts and he's like, you guys are going to make out the whole.
The whole song.
Oh my god.
We would have to make because we were right in the background, Like I don't know how all the cameras got us no matter where we were, and she did that song like eight times.
I'm not kidding. She did that song. So we had to make out the entire song.
And I remember at one point we were like our like lists are touching and we're just laughing because it's so insane.
I was like, I hate you, Eric.
Oh my gosh, I forgot about that. Oh yeah, yes, yeah, And the camera was on and he, you know, he like God bless Eric.
He is an intense dude when it comes to like he's like I want this shot, yes, and then you're like, oh, you know, and I have so much respect for it. We had so much respect for Eric because he you know, he wore a suit. He's like, he looked like an old school director. No sides on set, and and and so I was like, I got to give a Emmy Emmy Award winning kiss.
Eight times for three minutes time.
We did not have lines, but we're gonna kiss.
He had dry and it's.
Just like he had us on the roller coaster at six Flags when we did the roller coaster episode. We kissed on the roller coaster like he loved that. He loved that for us and I think he loved that. We also were like really Eric again, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my gosh, so awkward, especially when you're having to do it over and over again and then try and make it like interesting. And I remember me and you used to eat like the worst ship that we could think of to just make it a little more interesting.
Peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Yeah, that combination existed.
That's right. No, definitely.
And then you guys, you and you and Kenny had to do some fun stuff too, Like you guys did Scream, which was like one of I think one of the best members on the show hands down.
That was such a fun day.
That was really neat. That was a fun day. It's just you got to get out of the wheelchair and and and and really just tear it up and and and you know Alfonso which I talked to him recently and a fon, so you know, he just made that Yeah, I mean it was. It was really fun to shoot with him because we didn't see him at all much shooting, so he just left us to kind of like door, like.
I can't even remember where he was.
Really, Yeah, was that a whole day you guys shot?
Then?
Yeah, and we didn't do that. Yeah, we never we shoot sometimes we shoot two musical numbers in a day, so you never get to stay on one stage.
But they were so they were shooting another one, right.
Yeah they were. Yeah, So we were like all running back and forth between different sets to see like what are you doing over here? And people were excited because it was so different from what we normally get to do. And that was also after somehow we got to go like pitch what Michael Jackson songs we wanted to the writers and yeah, so Harry had me come in his trailer and he's me, I'm like, oh, we'll just go in there and sort of like tell them what you want. He's like, no, no, no, We're gonna make like a like a PowerPoint presentation. And we went through, we pulled references, we worked on it for like I don't know, twenty four hours or two days or something.
Yeah, yeah, and there and they're.
Like, okay, thank you.
Right.
It really felt like an audition, like we might have gotten fired.
It was so weird too, because like these are coworkers, are friends, these writers, and like we've only hung out with them like officet mostly as Yeah, so they like.
The boardroom, like just like the fingers together, and yeah.
To get invited into their space was so weird and it felt very uncomfortable, like, did you.
Guys have to Did they tell you guys you were doing a number together and then you had to pitch on what number you wanted to do or was this just you guys being.
Like we're going to do this. It was our own doing, I feel like, and you kind of like, hey, don't pick like the wrong songs of Michael's songs, and Ry Ryan kept saying, okay, fine, well tell me what do you want.
Yeah, because we had Harry and I had been talking because Teenage Dream did really well, right, and it was like a different version because we'd gone to the point where a lot of the numbers we were doing were sort of like straight covers, where we were like, the ones that are most special are the ones that change it up a bit, whether it's a cappella or you know, all that kind of stuff. And so Harry and I were like a little protective over the Michael Jackson music and we didn't want it to sound like kids bomp. And I remember, yeah, we talked to we were shooting some scene and Ryan was around, and you and I were like plotting. We were like running in between a hallway and the choir room, being like, okay, you could tell him this, and I'm gonna tell him that to sort of like make him think it was his idea that he wants us to pitch a music sort of thing. And then he's like, okay, don't you guys come to the writer's room and like you and we did it. And I did not think for one second. I don't even think we did we even pitch Scream.
The way you made We had a whole like, we had a whole plot line like okay, we'll make the way you make me feel that, Like I think we really wanted that. And then a couple of the songs and Scream was I think Scream was something that was floating around around and we're like that would be dope. But then like we were about to ask for that budget, yeah, because it was it's a crazy budget, and but you know, it all made sense and that was and I don't remember how the song kind of kind of how I was released. Oh and I remember the beat was changed a couple of times to be able to go back and forth and and you know, Ryan really really coming kind of saying like, hey, what do you think? And and to be able to have that conversation was I think we've never got to do that ever.
Yeah, exactly, thoughts on the tempo and things, and that was so much fun, though it was also very intimidating because Harry obviously is such a good dancer, and like we were doing that was the most dancing I had ever done. And it's not like you can look anywhere else. It's just Harry and I and I was like, I'm so screwed.
Leather, Oh my god. You have to you know, it doesn't matter if you're good dancing or not. You're gonna have to make it something different. But you know, one of the best things about you is that you commit. And so it's like because you can easily feel like such an idiot, like what am I wearing?
Why am I doing this? This is insane? Yeah, you watch Harry just go full out. All right, We're going into it, shut up.
Amazing.
We got to do some crazy things, like so so weird.
Yeah, you guys did so many crazy numbers.
My favorite was the guys numbers when we didn't know what was happening, and then you would come on set and perform and we get to watch sit back and watch you. You guys did all the applause, the Gaga thing, you guys did, kiss, you guys did the usher, and the whole thing we just watched you do in Rocky Horror, which I.
Forgot that story.
I totally forgot the storyline that you were like taking on the lead and then your parents didn't like, oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it was.
It was. It's always funny when like how it's you know, everything is so fluid because you like, one storyline goes like, oh, it's heading towards there, Its like, and then someone it's like a song doesn't get cleared.
And you're like, oh right, it's so true.
Before we tie this up with a nice little boat, I'm just curious your feelings on where where you are now with the show. What is the feeling that Glee left you with then versus now?
Is it the same? Has it evolved?
I'd love to hear.
Also, what what what experience has been for you after a kind of share is you know as far as publicly, like, I think what's interesting is like, you know, no matter how you feel about something, no matter what the public thinks as far as like audience and all that, fans or people who dislike it, that's going to penetrate and kind of your thoughts on kind of how you feel outside of your own experience. And it's I think the craziest thing is seeing Like I remember I was at an event and she's got to be no, no, not much older than maybe like twelve years old, thirteen years old, and just says like that's her favorite show, Glee, And I just find that three so like, I don't know how.
I feel about that.
It's like.
Yeah, I mean yeah, like that's not that's that.
Like when I was at the Oscars, like like waiting in line, you know, a couple of younger actors came up and was just like, oh my gosh, I like I love you and Glee and I was like, you're eight years old, like, and I think that's There's there's this level of like, you know, going back to what I talked about, you know, we left a certain stamp on on that time period that I think musicals could have were and whatever, you know whatever, all the things that we got to to contribute to I think popular culture and music. Is is really neat to see that kind of carried over into another generation that can can enjoy this thing that a little bit of because I think what the what the show was, outside of all the things that that you know, the things that I talked about thematically was was just try and express joy, you know, for people who don't ever get to you don't to ever see them experience joy on screen. And I just think that was, uh, that's resonating. It feels like it's resonating with with a younger audiences outside of the people who experience it during that time and are into the gossip and you know, the younger, young, young, younger kids might not see that.
So it's it's yeah.
For me, I just feel like, you know, it's it's cool to be part of something that I I know that I don't know if it will ever exist again anything like it, as as much as they try to, and I've gotten definitely gotten people calling me trying to do the same thing. And you know, I think we we we are a crew, our group of people, the people that was assembled and the people who didn't know what the hell they were doing. But that is I think one of the one of the best things that you could have done because the fact that you don't know what you're doing, you're probably going to do things that no one else is going to do. Right. But I mean, for for y'all, I like, has have you had that same kind of experience, especially people still recognizing you, you know, from the show and stuff when you go to different countries or even here. Yeah, has that been the same.
The exact same? Yeah, it's been crazy. It's strange.
It feels.
Nice, Like that's something you think about when you're doing the show and you get recognized while the show's on, Like, how is this going to be perceived in ten years time?
You know?
But it has been I mean, which is also part of the incentive of us doing this podcast, is that there is this whole new generation and then the generation that watch while it was on is also continually watching it or watching it again, And it is nice. It is nice to feel like we were part of something that was culturally significant that way that is speaks to people that you know, want to feel like you said, experience joy and see joy and people like themselves on screen.
Yeah, it's the bigger picture. It's like the effect and the stamp that, like realize I wish in hindsight, I wish I had been able to see it the way we see it now back then just a little wait more. It just would have given me a bit more perspective on where I was and how I handle things and how I just my attitude in general at this, you know, every day being there, I wish that I just kind of could have known more about the big or thought about the bigger picture more. And I did.
I did.
I feel like I was really appreciative, but I also acted like an asshole.
So like I do feel like had I known a little bit more what I know now, I would go back and handle things a little differently.
Isn't that always the thing?
Right?
It's so interesting to hear that you think you were such an asshole during it, because yeah, you, I mean, I think we're always obviously we're in our own heads and have different perspectives. But like being around you, having lived with you for two of those years, like you, sure did you have some moments where you were just worn out and maybe didn't handle some things correctly. Sure, but we all did at different times. And I will say on the whole though, I think your perspective was really good, and like when you're working fourteen fifteen, sixteen hour days, no matter how good your perspective is, sometimes you're not You're just gonna be worn.
Oh.
Sure, I appreciate that. Thanks for saying that.
Yeah, And sometimes you have to think if it's if it's you being an asshole to yourself as opposed to other people. And I think that's kind of I think, you know, in our twenties, we all were to a certain degree and just the you know, it's like, why am I being so shitty to myself? Yes, for feeling this way, it's already being you know, it's already like layered on top of that. So because I don't I also don't agree with Kevin. I don't think it was expressed outwardly towards other people. But you know, I can relate to how I was probably an asshole, yeah, to to myself, and I think that's always the hardest relationship to kind of look back, and you know, it only takes time to be able to repair that or whatever it is.
No, that makes sense, that that's very fair, and that that's very profound. It makes sense.
I mean, we obviously know ourselves one thousand percent more as we should and have evolved so much that when you go back, you're like, well, if I was in the body i'm in now, in the mindset i'm in now, I would have handled things differently.
Of course, God it would be gods if we went back to high.
No.
But I think also when I say that him, like right, Ryan, no, he's unavailable, it will make him available.
No.
I I also think like just appreciating like around us, all the good things that we had in being able to do the podcast. It was like and talk to like somebody like you who was there you know all the time. It's it's nice to look back and go, oh yeah, it was really great and we did have really good times and we really do treasure those moments, and that's why we all still stay in touch and love each others. Like just knowing, like in my mind back then, like wow, this is really great. Just the appreciation for it could have been deeper and more just kind of led with appreciation and grateful, grateful nature versus like this again, but yeah, here.
We are, here, we are Well.
It's also the repetition of or the intervals that it happens, right, it's the interval that happens and you don't you don't even have time to appreciate it because it's already on to the next. Yeah, And and you know, I think that's also speaks to kind of like society now. It's like, do you have time to even appreciate that those things or are you onto the next?
You have to spend so much mental power to make sure you are present and appreciative in addition to you know, the opportunity or whatever whatever it is you're doing. And so yeah, it's sometimes it's just you don't have the capacity to you know, necessarily be aware and conscious of that all the time, right right.
Oh, I love you guys.
You know this is so it's so good to see you. I have good chat for hours. Honestly, I'm like, oh shit, it's been an hour. You are Harry, We're just honestly, I'm just so proud of you. I'm so happy for you. Every time like hear something else or in the news or we see you in like this awesome carpet, I'm like, God, that's awesome.
It's so good to see your friend more succeed.
So you're the best of us, you know, really appreciate it.
You you. I love you, guys, and thank you so much for just always uh reaching out and like I want to see your your faces and in.
I r L I know some dinner soon.
We should do it, ugly dinner soon? Should we do it? Let's do it?
We should, Let's do it.
Let's do it. Come on, let's do it. Okay, let's do it over, Let's do it.
Okay, it's done, It's done, it's consorted.
Here first we'll say, how do your awesome life?
Bras?
We love her, we haven't seen her longtime, and.
We love you. I love you hair, you guys, love you so good to see you.
Harry.
Well there you have it.
The a gem of the earth, one of the best people we know, one of the hardest working humans and also like deserving of everything and what a good friend.
Gave me goosebumps many times, like I don't know what Oprah he is on, but he's yeah, he on some full Oprah intelligence, wisdom and couldn't be prouder. Love you, Harry, Thanks for being with us, and that's what you really missed.
Come back next time.
Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss POD. Make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. See you next time.
