Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks. And we continue now with part two of our conversation with Scott Strode, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. So there was a really pivotal moment for you where you on like a real climb, like a serious, you gotta be prepared climb that actually had a base camp type thing, which you know, I don't where was this climb, by the way.

Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks. And we continue now with part two of our conversation with Scott Strode, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. So there was a really pivotal moment for you where you on like a real climb, like a serious, you gotta be prepared climb that actually had a base camp type thing, which you know, I don't where was this climb, by the way.

Yeah, this is uh I think I think if this is the story you're talking about, then I was probably in Alaska, so okay, and.

Yeah, this is uh I think I think if this is the story you're talking about, then I was probably in Alaska, so okay, and.

You were being guided right, all right, that's it. I want you to tell story. But I was curious what mountain was that.

You were being guided right, all right, that's it. I want you to tell story. But I was curious what mountain was that.

Oh, oh this is where? Yeah, this is sort of I had. This was actually this was actually in the Himalaya, so when I hidding, No, no, this was when I got into recovery. I you know, this is before getting out to Colorado. But I I worked as an EMT because I wanted to learn EMT skills to be a better climbing partner, so i'd have some medical training.

Oh, oh this is where? Yeah, this is sort of I had. This was actually this was actually in the Himalaya, so when I hidding, No, no, this was when I got into recovery. I you know, this is before getting out to Colorado. But I I worked as an EMT because I wanted to learn EMT skills to be a better climbing partner, so i'd have some medical training.

Wow.

Wow.

But and also I realized being EMT is a job you can just quit and go on a climbing trip and come back to yeah, because they're like, well, there's no job when you come back. And I was like, how about the midnight shift, And they're like, okay, you're good if you're any work this weekend, you know. So But I would do that off and on and I'd save up money and go on these expeditions. And I went on this trip and we were climbing on this this it's an eight thousand meter peak, so it's one of the fourteen highest mountains in the world.

But and also I realized being EMT is a job you can just quit and go on a climbing trip and come back to yeah, because they're like, well, there's no job when you come back. And I was like, how about the midnight shift, And they're like, okay, you're good if you're any work this weekend, you know. So But I would do that off and on and I'd save up money and go on these expeditions. And I went on this trip and we were climbing on this this it's an eight thousand meter peak, so it's one of the fourteen highest mountains in the world.

And we this didn't just get a codd Reiki raylop.

And we this didn't just get a codd Reiki raylop.

I had more than a gore text code at this time.

I had more than a gore text code at this time.

Yeah, some folks do.

Yeah, some folks do.

I was going to try it without it, just because I had never been that high and I wanted to sort of see what I was capable of.

I was going to try it without it, just because I had never been that high and I wanted to sort of see what I was capable of.

But we had to a serious climb.

But we had to a serious climb.

Bro, Yeah, this is a serious climb when guides with with guides, and the guide decided to go up with a couple of the clients, you know, and another guy, Matt Mooney, who's a friend I befriended on the trip. I met him there. Turns out he was in recovery too, and he was from New York and and you know, we became buds and we were we were like, you know what, we we started to realize that we actually maybe even knew more than the guide and we were making we were making some better decisions about like what to do in that setting. And to me, that was like a huge empowerment moment because like I for years, even as I was climbing all these mountains and doing all this incredible stuff, I still didn't really believe in myself. And then I realized, like, like I know what's best here. I know better than this like professional guide what should happen in this scenario, and made decisions that like protected my group of friends, you know. And Matt and I started going down the mountain together, and you.

Bro, Yeah, this is a serious climb when guides with with guides, and the guide decided to go up with a couple of the clients, you know, and another guy, Matt Mooney, who's a friend I befriended on the trip. I met him there. Turns out he was in recovery too, and he was from New York and and you know, we became buds and we were we were like, you know what, we we started to realize that we actually maybe even knew more than the guide and we were making we were making some better decisions about like what to do in that setting. And to me, that was like a huge empowerment moment because like I for years, even as I was climbing all these mountains and doing all this incredible stuff, I still didn't really believe in myself. And then I realized, like, like I know what's best here. I know better than this like professional guide what should happen in this scenario, and made decisions that like protected my group of friends, you know. And Matt and I started going down the mountain together, and you.

Were like, you were like, y'all are nuts. This is dumb. Yet we're not.

Were like, you were like, y'all are nuts. This is dumb. Yet we're not.

Well, we just said, you know, I think weather's coming, and it's pretty obvious when you look at the other mountains over there, and and and we're going to go down. And they went up and we went down, and turns out it was good we did. We actually were able to rescue another climber who was having some altitude sickness on the descent, and so Matt and I got this guy down from the side of the mountain, and the guys we were climbing with spent two days in a storm at like twenty four thousand and got frostbite and some high altitude mountain sickness, cerebral edema, you know, a bunch of they were really struggling up there and they ended up coming down. But something changed in me then, and it was like it started to really like disentangle that those negative thoughts about myself.

Well, we just said, you know, I think weather's coming, and it's pretty obvious when you look at the other mountains over there, and and and we're going to go down. And they went up and we went down, and turns out it was good we did. We actually were able to rescue another climber who was having some altitude sickness on the descent, and so Matt and I got this guy down from the side of the mountain, and the guys we were climbing with spent two days in a storm at like twenty four thousand and got frostbite and some high altitude mountain sickness, cerebral edema, you know, a bunch of they were really struggling up there and they ended up coming down. But something changed in me then, and it was like it started to really like disentangle that those negative thoughts about myself.

That's a phenomenal story, I were. This is a great segue to get into Phoenix and all of it. But before we go there, you know, I've watched the shows on climbing Everest and watch them on TV, and the closest my fat rear end is going to get to Everest is the TV. So but it feels like you may not know a climber from Adam, but it feels like there's this code of camaraderie that no matter who you are as climbers, if someone's in distress, it's almost your job to help them out. It's kind of like if there's a maritime signal of distress, it don't matter who you are you go to try to answer that call? Is that the same thing in climbing? I mean, is that kind of code exists on the mountain.

That's a phenomenal story, I were. This is a great segue to get into Phoenix and all of it. But before we go there, you know, I've watched the shows on climbing Everest and watch them on TV, and the closest my fat rear end is going to get to Everest is the TV. So but it feels like you may not know a climber from Adam, but it feels like there's this code of camaraderie that no matter who you are as climbers, if someone's in distress, it's almost your job to help them out. It's kind of like if there's a maritime signal of distress, it don't matter who you are you go to try to answer that call? Is that the same thing in climbing? I mean, is that kind of code exists on the mountain.

Yeah, I would say for ninety percent of the climbers, yes. And I think that that what you're really teasing out. I think is that you know, in my recovery journey, you know, ships taught me this sense of community and this importance to be there for each other, and climbing taught me that that there's a duty that we have to each other as people that I realize later is not just on a mountaintop, but it's something that if we carried with us in our every day I think the world could start to change pretty dramatically. And that code is there when you're four thousand feet up on the side of a cliff. For sure, Scott, you busted me. That is exactly my tease is that I look, man, I'm for better or worse. I really I enjoy people and I love listen to their stories, but also like searching for motivation and where things come from. And once again I can't help but think when you tell the story of coming down that mountain and helping a guy out, that was sick and trying to keep people from going into a situation where people got frostbite, and your time on the boat talking about a team that it's interesting that this code of crumbroadery that you learn both on the ocean and on mountain climbing ultimately became part of the ethos of what is what you do now? And I just find it interesting. And you know, is it too far stretch what I'm saying or do you think there's something to that? Oh, there's absolutely something to that. And I think even what you brought up about my dad, like me being able to see him for who he really was, passed his or through in spite of his mental health struggles. You know, it's like the phoenix has taught me that now that I just see people for this innate strength that's within all of us, and this value and dignity we have as people, no matter what our circumstance at the moment. You know, sometimes life has been tough and the opportunities haven't been there, and we've experienced pain and trauma and things play out in a way, but that make us appear as if we are our circumstances right. But the truth is we all have this intrinsic strength and value and if sometimes if you just get that other stuff out of the way, it starts to become expressed.

Yeah, I would say for ninety percent of the climbers, yes. And I think that that what you're really teasing out. I think is that you know, in my recovery journey, you know, ships taught me this sense of community and this importance to be there for each other, and climbing taught me that that there's a duty that we have to each other as people that I realize later is not just on a mountaintop, but it's something that if we carried with us in our every day I think the world could start to change pretty dramatically. And that code is there when you're four thousand feet up on the side of a cliff. For sure, Scott, you busted me. That is exactly my tease is that I look, man, I'm for better or worse. I really I enjoy people and I love listen to their stories, but also like searching for motivation and where things come from. And once again I can't help but think when you tell the story of coming down that mountain and helping a guy out, that was sick and trying to keep people from going into a situation where people got frostbite, and your time on the boat talking about a team that it's interesting that this code of crumbroadery that you learn both on the ocean and on mountain climbing ultimately became part of the ethos of what is what you do now? And I just find it interesting. And you know, is it too far stretch what I'm saying or do you think there's something to that? Oh, there's absolutely something to that. And I think even what you brought up about my dad, like me being able to see him for who he really was, passed his or through in spite of his mental health struggles. You know, it's like the phoenix has taught me that now that I just see people for this innate strength that's within all of us, and this value and dignity we have as people, no matter what our circumstance at the moment. You know, sometimes life has been tough and the opportunities haven't been there, and we've experienced pain and trauma and things play out in a way, but that make us appear as if we are our circumstances right. But the truth is we all have this intrinsic strength and value and if sometimes if you just get that other stuff out of the way, it starts to become expressed.

So with over forty six million Americans living with substance use disorder and millions more affect by that, which is a perfect example of you as a child with an i'lcoholic father in law and a father dealing with disorder, you're part of those affected. And typically the affected also become involved in one way or the other. So when you're talking forty six million and me and more, you're talking a huge part of our population. I think last year over one hundred thousand people died of fentanyl overdoses. I don't know a single person. I don't know a single human being that is not affected by addiction in one way or another. A loved one, a friend, a coworker who hasn't in touch fit or seen it, accidents, death, all of it. And I think because of that, and because it's become so prevalent in society, we almost get to sensitize to it, which I think is dangerous. But with all of that, faced with all of that, as you start to understand your own value and you start to really on a personal level, understand the struggle with addiction because you went through it. It's starting at such a young age, but then you start to undercover, uncover this love of outdoors and the strength that gives you and your own abilities. Now, let's talk about what Phoenix was in your brain and what it's become, the amazing redemptive story of all of this struggle and self discovery that manifests itself in Phoenix, what your idea was originally and what you did.

So with over forty six million Americans living with substance use disorder and millions more affect by that, which is a perfect example of you as a child with an i'lcoholic father in law and a father dealing with disorder, you're part of those affected. And typically the affected also become involved in one way or the other. So when you're talking forty six million and me and more, you're talking a huge part of our population. I think last year over one hundred thousand people died of fentanyl overdoses. I don't know a single person. I don't know a single human being that is not affected by addiction in one way or another. A loved one, a friend, a coworker who hasn't in touch fit or seen it, accidents, death, all of it. And I think because of that, and because it's become so prevalent in society, we almost get to sensitize to it, which I think is dangerous. But with all of that, faced with all of that, as you start to understand your own value and you start to really on a personal level, understand the struggle with addiction because you went through it. It's starting at such a young age, but then you start to undercover, uncover this love of outdoors and the strength that gives you and your own abilities. Now, let's talk about what Phoenix was in your brain and what it's become, the amazing redemptive story of all of this struggle and self discovery that manifests itself in Phoenix, what your idea was originally and what you did.

Yeah, so we you know, that's a great recap and it did. It set these conditions for like the phoenix to be born, right, and we we knew that there had to be this sort of like code of conduct or ethos that that created this sort of a supportive container for which Phoenix to happen. And that was like basically that says we're here to lift each other up, not pull each other down. And we wanted it to make it accessible to as many people as we could, so you only had to be forty eight hours sober. And we wanted it to be free because we thought building community shouldn't cost money, right, Like it's something we should be able to do just as humans and and so so. Because Ben and I had both worked out in outdoor kind of experiential education stuff, and I had been a climbing guide at this point and coached and durance athletes also, and including racing myself. Started bringing those activities together and offering them for free to people in recovery. And it wasn't the fastest start to it, you know, like I was. I would ride my bike around Boulder, Colorado and put up stuff on like corkboards. This was like pre This was like in the MySpace days, you know, like it really wasn't social media.

Yeah, so we you know, that's a great recap and it did. It set these conditions for like the phoenix to be born, right, and we we knew that there had to be this sort of like code of conduct or ethos that that created this sort of a supportive container for which Phoenix to happen. And that was like basically that says we're here to lift each other up, not pull each other down. And we wanted it to make it accessible to as many people as we could, so you only had to be forty eight hours sober. And we wanted it to be free because we thought building community shouldn't cost money, right, Like it's something we should be able to do just as humans and and so so. Because Ben and I had both worked out in outdoor kind of experiential education stuff, and I had been a climbing guide at this point and coached and durance athletes also, and including racing myself. Started bringing those activities together and offering them for free to people in recovery. And it wasn't the fastest start to it, you know, like I was. I would ride my bike around Boulder, Colorado and put up stuff on like corkboards. This was like pre This was like in the MySpace days, you know, like it really wasn't social media.

You didn't have some massive NGO behind you. You literally had a discipline that you developed, which is being one of the things I say often and our listeners probably are sick of this redundancy on my part, but I believe amazing things happen when a person's discipline and passion meet at opportunity. And what you're saying to me is exactly that you had this discipline that you developed running or not running from your addiction, but coping with an overcoming your own diction of out being quote outdoorsy, that's your words, and climbing and your passion for it, and now you're passion for people because you know the pain and you see an opportunity. But you don't have this big order station. You're just a normal average guy run around Boulder, climbing ice stuff and whatever. And you start putting board saying, hey, we got this thing called Phoenix and nobody's ever heard of, but trust me, we can help you.

You didn't have some massive NGO behind you. You literally had a discipline that you developed, which is being one of the things I say often and our listeners probably are sick of this redundancy on my part, but I believe amazing things happen when a person's discipline and passion meet at opportunity. And what you're saying to me is exactly that you had this discipline that you developed running or not running from your addiction, but coping with an overcoming your own diction of out being quote outdoorsy, that's your words, and climbing and your passion for it, and now you're passion for people because you know the pain and you see an opportunity. But you don't have this big order station. You're just a normal average guy run around Boulder, climbing ice stuff and whatever. And you start putting board saying, hey, we got this thing called Phoenix and nobody's ever heard of, but trust me, we can help you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly how it got gone. And you know, I got to found a guy who helped us come up with our logo, you know, and kind of fashioned it after some Native American like bird imagery, and it just sort of embodied what I thought of the phoenix. And and I would go to this climbing gym and Boulder and get punch passes, and I'd stand there with my harness in my hand, waiting on a Friday night because that's what the corkboard said, you know, And and no one showed up, you know, And I stood there a lot of Friday nights like, well, well maybe tonight, maybe tonight, And it was but I, in my heart, I kind of knew that that there was a desire there. I felt like it had to click for folks because it clicked for me, it clicked for Ben, it clicked for you know, Matt and on that mountain in the Himalaya. And sure enough, one night, this guy Barry walked in and then he looked around. He's like, does anybody else she kind to show up, and I was like, oh, maybe later, you know, And so we just started. We just started climbing here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly how it got gone. And you know, I got to found a guy who helped us come up with our logo, you know, and kind of fashioned it after some Native American like bird imagery, and it just sort of embodied what I thought of the phoenix. And and I would go to this climbing gym and Boulder and get punch passes, and I'd stand there with my harness in my hand, waiting on a Friday night because that's what the corkboard said, you know, And and no one showed up, you know, And I stood there a lot of Friday nights like, well, well maybe tonight, maybe tonight, And it was but I, in my heart, I kind of knew that that there was a desire there. I felt like it had to click for folks because it clicked for me, it clicked for Ben, it clicked for you know, Matt and on that mountain in the Himalaya. And sure enough, one night, this guy Barry walked in and then he looked around. He's like, does anybody else she kind to show up, and I was like, oh, maybe later, you know, And so we just started. We just started climbing here.

No, you're the first in four weeks, but thank god you're here.

No, you're the first in four weeks, but thank god you're here.

Yeah. Yeah, So we started climbing, and then there were two or three folks and that first year, they're about seventy folks that came to Phoenix and we did bike seventy seventy. Yeah, we started doing bike rides and hikes and climbing nights and taught like triathlon clinic and a whole bunch of other stuff. And it was a great little core group that started out.

Yeah. Yeah, So we started climbing, and then there were two or three folks and that first year, they're about seventy folks that came to Phoenix and we did bike seventy seventy. Yeah, we started doing bike rides and hikes and climbing nights and taught like triathlon clinic and a whole bunch of other stuff. And it was a great little core group that started out.

And the only rule to those people were when you show up to me, you got to be forty eight hours somber.

And the only rule to those people were when you show up to me, you got to be forty eight hours somber.

And adhere to that ethos that we're here to lift each other up.

And adhere to that ethos that we're here to lift each other up.

Okay, that was your one yep, And after seventy now you're starting to think, all right, maybe I'm not complete nuts and yeah, right, yeah, we'll be right back.

Okay, that was your one yep, And after seventy now you're starting to think, all right, maybe I'm not complete nuts and yeah, right, yeah, we'll be right back.

We felt we felt like so by now it was you know, Ben Jackie and this guy Mike Britton and Don Taylor, a couple folks had kind of come around it that were like helping it actually happen. And we incorporated as a nonprofit and we got our first donation, which no surprise, was from my mom. You know, it was like it was pretty you know, pretty much a regular startup nonprofit. So but we felt urgency even then to make it a national thing. Not because we wanted to build a huge organization because that's actually really hard to do, but because the need was so great, Like people started hearing about it even in this really early stage and wanting it in their community because because people were dying and people were losing the people they love and care about, and there's a lot of pain out there, and so we felt an urgency to grow it. So we always had a vision of having it reach as many people as we could.

We felt we felt like so by now it was you know, Ben Jackie and this guy Mike Britton and Don Taylor, a couple folks had kind of come around it that were like helping it actually happen. And we incorporated as a nonprofit and we got our first donation, which no surprise, was from my mom. You know, it was like it was pretty you know, pretty much a regular startup nonprofit. So but we felt urgency even then to make it a national thing. Not because we wanted to build a huge organization because that's actually really hard to do, but because the need was so great, Like people started hearing about it even in this really early stage and wanting it in their community because because people were dying and people were losing the people they love and care about, and there's a lot of pain out there, and so we felt an urgency to grow it. So we always had a vision of having it reach as many people as we could.

And year two, year three, yeah you could to chronologically take me through it.

And year two, year three, yeah you could to chronologically take me through it.

Yeah, it started to really become a real thing, right, Like we started getting donations from people that I wasn't related to, and and yeah, and uh so other people were investing in that vision. I just remember we met with this incredible foundation called the Daniels Fund in Denver, Colorado. They came to climbing night one night and they saw this, you know, thirty or so people meeting in the climbing gym, high five and fist bumping when they got down from the climb, and we're all in recovery and we're all like, you know, literally lifting each other up with the rope, you know, to the top. And they made a I think it was a thirty thousand dollars grant to the Phoenix, and then I just felt like, you know, this is this is something isn't just something we believe in that other people are believing in this, and they've been funding us since. They've been an incredible partner for the Phoenix. So that's when it really started to take off.

Yeah, it started to really become a real thing, right, Like we started getting donations from people that I wasn't related to, and and yeah, and uh so other people were investing in that vision. I just remember we met with this incredible foundation called the Daniels Fund in Denver, Colorado. They came to climbing night one night and they saw this, you know, thirty or so people meeting in the climbing gym, high five and fist bumping when they got down from the climb, and we're all in recovery and we're all like, you know, literally lifting each other up with the rope, you know, to the top. And they made a I think it was a thirty thousand dollars grant to the Phoenix, and then I just felt like, you know, this is this is something isn't just something we believe in that other people are believing in this, and they've been funding us since. They've been an incredible partner for the Phoenix. So that's when it really started to take off.

And now you're in over forty states, one hundred and fifty plus communities, you've got fifteen hundred volunteers, and you've served over one hundred thousand people with Phoenix Free programs. And in twenty twenty three alone you served another one hundred thousand people. And today you've served three hundred and sixty four thousand what you call members have had seventy two thousand events, twenty five hundred volunteers, act debated, and eighty three percent of the members. This is the one eighty three people need to understand that. And I don't know the exact numbers and Scotch you can fill in the blanks here, but going to typical both outpatient and inpatient programs, the rate of people who stay sober is only in the twenties. I think. Is that not correct?

And now you're in over forty states, one hundred and fifty plus communities, you've got fifteen hundred volunteers, and you've served over one hundred thousand people with Phoenix Free programs. And in twenty twenty three alone you served another one hundred thousand people. And today you've served three hundred and sixty four thousand what you call members have had seventy two thousand events, twenty five hundred volunteers, act debated, and eighty three percent of the members. This is the one eighty three people need to understand that. And I don't know the exact numbers and Scotch you can fill in the blanks here, but going to typical both outpatient and inpatient programs, the rate of people who stay sober is only in the twenties. I think. Is that not correct?

Yeah, it's pretty low. It's about sixty percent of folks will relapse pretty quickly coming out of formal treatments.

Yeah, it's pretty low. It's about sixty percent of folks will relapse pretty quickly coming out of formal treatments.

Sixty and you have eighty three percent of members report remaining sober after three months. That's phenomenal. Yeah. So my question is what's the secret and the sauce. I mean, what's the difference. And I think you're going to tell me it's community, but I want to hear it.

Sixty and you have eighty three percent of members report remaining sober after three months. That's phenomenal. Yeah. So my question is what's the secret and the sauce. I mean, what's the difference. And I think you're going to tell me it's community, but I want to hear it.

Yeah, yeah, well you're not wrong there. I mean we'd say that you know, at Phoenix you often come for the activity or the workout, but your stand for the friendships and and I think even more importantly that that that self esteem ember for has been smoldering most of that person's life trying to get oxygen, and Phoenix just gives it a little bit of that. And when they get to the top of that climb, or they they they try that CrossFit work out for the first time, or they try yoga and they get centered at their in their yoga class or meditation, they start to that starts to catch fire within them. So it's it's the Phoenix. And you know, my wife's in recovery and we actually met at jiu jitsu, but then later she came. She came. Uh. No, I try not to squish her because she's pretty tiny, but uh and I'm the opposite. But but she later showed up at Phoenix and I found out she was in recovery too. But she says, so she became a Phoenix member over time, and she said, Phoenix didn't make me strong, It just reminded me that I am, you know, And so I think that's beautiful.

Yeah, yeah, well you're not wrong there. I mean we'd say that you know, at Phoenix you often come for the activity or the workout, but your stand for the friendships and and I think even more importantly that that that self esteem ember for has been smoldering most of that person's life trying to get oxygen, and Phoenix just gives it a little bit of that. And when they get to the top of that climb, or they they they try that CrossFit work out for the first time, or they try yoga and they get centered at their in their yoga class or meditation, they start to that starts to catch fire within them. So it's it's the Phoenix. And you know, my wife's in recovery and we actually met at jiu jitsu, but then later she came. She came. Uh. No, I try not to squish her because she's pretty tiny, but uh and I'm the opposite. But but she later showed up at Phoenix and I found out she was in recovery too. But she says, so she became a Phoenix member over time, and she said, Phoenix didn't make me strong, It just reminded me that I am, you know, And so I think that's beautiful.

That's very very cool. Back when I was fifteen years old, Daddy number four had the time runs together. But one of my mom's husband shot up the house one night and I had to dive out a window to survive the night and I had all this dysfunction going on. And anyway, I got in a fight in high school, and back then, when you got in a fight, you went to the principal unless you were a football player, and then you went to that coach's office. And I promise you the head coach's office fifty times for us of the principal, right, yeah, And I love the man. His name is Coach Spain, and he had he had this way of being grizzled and old school. He was a son of a cotton farmer and just old school, grizzled, but also had this way of you just knew he did care about you, but he didn't have to actually say it, that kind of thing, old school guy. And I just know I'm going to his office and I'm about to get just laced up for getting in a fight. And he asked me what problem was, and I said, I'm angry. He said you're angry, and I said, I'm really angry, and he said, well, that's understandable. He said, I know about the dysfunction in your house. I know what you've been having to deal with and put up with, and at your age, that's a lot. And I think i'd be angry too, and he said, and frankly, nobody could back to something you said. Nobody could fault you for being for succumbing to that anger because of those circumstances that you've grown up with. And he said, but I want to tell you what that looks like. When you're thirty, you're probably going to be divorced, you will have lost one or two jobs, you will probably have a child or two out of wedlock, and you will likely have some sort of addiction to alcohol or drugs. If you continue to succumb to the anger and the frustration that you're surrounded by. Well, and he said, or you can recognize that dysfunction. And he said, you're old enough now and you can make a choice, and you can be a rock that dysfunction breaks itself up. And he said, nobody can blame you for being a victim of the unbelievable circumstances you're dealing with. But you need to know what that looks like. So you can choose to either be a victim or a rock. Yeah, And I will tell you something I would like to say. At fifteen or sixteen year old, it was like a light shone down from the heavens and had epiphany that moment, but I didn't, you know, But over the course of the year, that's really what got me thinking more about the life I was going to lead and the dysfunction that I was going to announce out of my life, because one man finally said, you're valuable. You do not have to be a product of your environment. You're worthwhile, You're lovable and if you do the right things, you can surround yourself with people that care about you, and you can find success in your life. And it was a coach spainstead now, but that was my moment when people chose to go up and get frostfight verse, turn around and go down and save myself. That was your moment. And the reason I'm telling this story to you is in some ways you're showing people away to not be a victim of their addiction but rather find a way to be a rock against that dysfunction.

That's very very cool. Back when I was fifteen years old, Daddy number four had the time runs together. But one of my mom's husband shot up the house one night and I had to dive out a window to survive the night and I had all this dysfunction going on. And anyway, I got in a fight in high school, and back then, when you got in a fight, you went to the principal unless you were a football player, and then you went to that coach's office. And I promise you the head coach's office fifty times for us of the principal, right, yeah, And I love the man. His name is Coach Spain, and he had he had this way of being grizzled and old school. He was a son of a cotton farmer and just old school, grizzled, but also had this way of you just knew he did care about you, but he didn't have to actually say it, that kind of thing, old school guy. And I just know I'm going to his office and I'm about to get just laced up for getting in a fight. And he asked me what problem was, and I said, I'm angry. He said you're angry, and I said, I'm really angry, and he said, well, that's understandable. He said, I know about the dysfunction in your house. I know what you've been having to deal with and put up with, and at your age, that's a lot. And I think i'd be angry too, and he said, and frankly, nobody could back to something you said. Nobody could fault you for being for succumbing to that anger because of those circumstances that you've grown up with. And he said, but I want to tell you what that looks like. When you're thirty, you're probably going to be divorced, you will have lost one or two jobs, you will probably have a child or two out of wedlock, and you will likely have some sort of addiction to alcohol or drugs. If you continue to succumb to the anger and the frustration that you're surrounded by. Well, and he said, or you can recognize that dysfunction. And he said, you're old enough now and you can make a choice, and you can be a rock that dysfunction breaks itself up. And he said, nobody can blame you for being a victim of the unbelievable circumstances you're dealing with. But you need to know what that looks like. So you can choose to either be a victim or a rock. Yeah, And I will tell you something I would like to say. At fifteen or sixteen year old, it was like a light shone down from the heavens and had epiphany that moment, but I didn't, you know, But over the course of the year, that's really what got me thinking more about the life I was going to lead and the dysfunction that I was going to announce out of my life, because one man finally said, you're valuable. You do not have to be a product of your environment. You're worthwhile, You're lovable and if you do the right things, you can surround yourself with people that care about you, and you can find success in your life. And it was a coach spainstead now, but that was my moment when people chose to go up and get frostfight verse, turn around and go down and save myself. That was your moment. And the reason I'm telling this story to you is in some ways you're showing people away to not be a victim of their addiction but rather find a way to be a rock against that dysfunction.

It feels like yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think that that's that's the thing that that uh, that's that pivotal moment, right like that that rock, that strength, that that that resiliency that's like innate in us. Yeah, it's there all yeah, that messaging that the circumstances that maybe it's the environment you grew up in, maybe it's family of origin, maybe it's the lack of opportunities, whatever it is, may start to have us question that. But something comes along sometimes like that coach or whatever, that that experience for my wife or where where it just shines a light on it that has always been there and that is with it within all of us. And I think it's great what you said too. You know, you wish that the light has shone down and that was the moment where it all changed. But the truth is, we can't unimprint that pain that was imprinted on us so profoundly, like the emotion in which that pain was imprinted on us was was really strong. Because you use the word trauma right, and I agree. But so the only way to disentangle that thread that's been woven through the fabric of who we are is through practice and repetition and reaffirming it and messaging like that and then proving out that messaging and truth. And that's the beauty of Phoenix, like it's not. You know, there's a bunch of youth programs that I was involved with before Phoenix where we'd take somebody out on a sailing trip and they'd change their life, and then we'd put them right back on the same street corner the next weekend, and of course they're going to go back to the old life. But like Phoenix is always there, there's some then every day you can go to. You can show up if you want to come every day, if you want to come twice a day, you can. And you just keep reinforcing that message that you're valuable, you have this innate strength. We believe in you and believe it or not. Eventually start believing it for yourself.

It feels like yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think that that's that's the thing that that uh, that's that pivotal moment, right like that that rock, that strength, that that that resiliency that's like innate in us. Yeah, it's there all yeah, that messaging that the circumstances that maybe it's the environment you grew up in, maybe it's family of origin, maybe it's the lack of opportunities, whatever it is, may start to have us question that. But something comes along sometimes like that coach or whatever, that that experience for my wife or where where it just shines a light on it that has always been there and that is with it within all of us. And I think it's great what you said too. You know, you wish that the light has shone down and that was the moment where it all changed. But the truth is, we can't unimprint that pain that was imprinted on us so profoundly, like the emotion in which that pain was imprinted on us was was really strong. Because you use the word trauma right, and I agree. But so the only way to disentangle that thread that's been woven through the fabric of who we are is through practice and repetition and reaffirming it and messaging like that and then proving out that messaging and truth. And that's the beauty of Phoenix, like it's not. You know, there's a bunch of youth programs that I was involved with before Phoenix where we'd take somebody out on a sailing trip and they'd change their life, and then we'd put them right back on the same street corner the next weekend, and of course they're going to go back to the old life. But like Phoenix is always there, there's some then every day you can go to. You can show up if you want to come every day, if you want to come twice a day, you can. And you just keep reinforcing that message that you're valuable, you have this innate strength. We believe in you and believe it or not. Eventually start believing it for yourself.

And it remains free for anybody who wants to help.

And it remains free for anybody who wants to help.

YEP. The way you give back has become a volunteer and for folks that is within their means, they become donors. But it's not an expectation. You can come. People come for years and have never paid for a single thing at Phoenix.

YEP. The way you give back has become a volunteer and for folks that is within their means, they become donors. But it's not an expectation. You can come. People come for years and have never paid for a single thing at Phoenix.

We'll be right back. This has become an organization now and now you've moved from Balder back to Boston, right, And I mean you're in these states? Is that was that right?

We'll be right back. This has become an organization now and now you've moved from Balder back to Boston, right, And I mean you're in these states? Is that was that right?

Yeah, we're pretty much in every state now, so we've we were growing so fast we have through the pandemic. We launch virtual and live stream Phoenix programs. We then got recorded content on tablets that we have distributed in prison, so you can come to the Phoenix when you're on the inside too.

Yeah, we're pretty much in every state now, so we've we were growing so fast we have through the pandemic. We launch virtual and live stream Phoenix programs. We then got recorded content on tablets that we have distributed in prison, so you can come to the Phoenix when you're on the inside too.

And uh you kidding, Yeah, we're kind.

And uh you kidding, Yeah, we're kind.

Of the peloton of recovery and prisons with a little less bandex you.

Of the peloton of recovery and prisons with a little less bandex you.

Know, yeah, but a lot less.

Know, yeah, but a lot less.

But it's it's uh, it's cool that people can connect to Phoenix. Then when they transition home, they can find Phoenix in their community. And then if you're not even living near a Phoenix, you can be the volunteer that starts it in your community. So it's almost seventy percent volunteer led now across the country.

But it's it's uh, it's cool that people can connect to Phoenix. Then when they transition home, they can find Phoenix in their community. And then if you're not even living near a Phoenix, you can be the volunteer that starts it in your community. So it's almost seventy percent volunteer led now across the country.

That's really got to help with recidivism too.

That's really got to help with recidivism too.

It does, Yeah, it really does, because because you know, when you when you're involved in the criminal justice system and saying thing coming out of drug and alcohol treatment, like when you're when your cell phone's full of people used to drink and use with or do whatever you used to do with, it's it's hard to stay on that path. But Phoenix fills it up with new numbers of people that care about you and want to see you on Friday night, because you go to climbing together all the time, or you go out for a run together every Friday or whatever. It is.

It does, Yeah, it really does, because because you know, when you when you're involved in the criminal justice system and saying thing coming out of drug and alcohol treatment, like when you're when your cell phone's full of people used to drink and use with or do whatever you used to do with, it's it's hard to stay on that path. But Phoenix fills it up with new numbers of people that care about you and want to see you on Friday night, because you go to climbing together all the time, or you go out for a run together every Friday or whatever. It is.

So literally there's something every day.

So literally there's something every day.

Every day and live stream you can find us from anywhere. And you know, we started building this app, that this mobile app where you could find Phoenix events you know near you and become a volunteer through the app. And then we realize, like we don't, We're not the only building block of healing, right, There's so many other things that people might need. So we started getting other nonprofits onto our app as well, which is unusual in the nonprofit space for people to collaborate in that way. It can be territorial. But we you know, there's a dozen other nonprofits that are on there now, and you might come for Phoenix and realize that c Kealing, who's also on there, can help you with your early childhood trauma, or you might realize that she Recovers, which is another organization on there, might help you as a woman in recovery in a way that Phoenix can't, you know. So it's like, I think we want to keep building that out to the point where where there could be hundreds of nonprofits on there that are equally as profound and what they accomplish in people's lives as Phoenix. And then we build a true continuum. And so if you need workforce development, we hope someday you can find it through our app. Whether we're doing it or not, there's somebody out there who's doing a good job. So let's get them on there and we can help each other's members.

Every day and live stream you can find us from anywhere. And you know, we started building this app, that this mobile app where you could find Phoenix events you know near you and become a volunteer through the app. And then we realize, like we don't, We're not the only building block of healing, right, There's so many other things that people might need. So we started getting other nonprofits onto our app as well, which is unusual in the nonprofit space for people to collaborate in that way. It can be territorial. But we you know, there's a dozen other nonprofits that are on there now, and you might come for Phoenix and realize that c Kealing, who's also on there, can help you with your early childhood trauma, or you might realize that she Recovers, which is another organization on there, might help you as a woman in recovery in a way that Phoenix can't, you know. So it's like, I think we want to keep building that out to the point where where there could be hundreds of nonprofits on there that are equally as profound and what they accomplish in people's lives as Phoenix. And then we build a true continuum. And so if you need workforce development, we hope someday you can find it through our app. Whether we're doing it or not, there's somebody out there who's doing a good job. So let's get them on there and we can help each other's members.

So how many people this year do you think you're going to serve?

So how many people this year do you think you're going to serve?

I think we're going to serve about four hundred thousand people this year.

I think we're going to serve about four hundred thousand people this year.

Alone, holy smokes.

Alone, holy smokes.

And we have about fifty thousand monthly active users on our app. And we're just getting started the way I see it, you know, we we worked with some philanthropists to kind of set out a vision of serving a million people in five years, and I think in the next five we'll get to a place where we serve a million people a year.

And we have about fifty thousand monthly active users on our app. And we're just getting started the way I see it, you know, we we worked with some philanthropists to kind of set out a vision of serving a million people in five years, and I think in the next five we'll get to a place where we serve a million people a year.

How are you going to punt up that many flowers to?

How are you going to punt up that many flowers to?

Yeah, a lot of crookboards, you know, so believe it or not, When I go buy one, I still stick a business card to it. I can't help I can't help it. It's just like I have that's where it came from.

Yeah, a lot of crookboards, you know, so believe it or not, When I go buy one, I still stick a business card to it. I can't help I can't help it. It's just like I have that's where it came from.

Yeah, it's a lot of money involved.

Yeah, it's a lot of money involved.

Here, Yeah, yeah, it is, But it's where.

Here, Yeah, yeah, it is, But it's where.

Does it come from if it's all free? I mean, I get you got a lot of the a lot of the programming as volunteers giving of their time, but you still got space. I mean, my goodness, there's a lot going on.

Does it come from if it's all free? I mean, I get you got a lot of the a lot of the programming as volunteers giving of their time, but you still got space. I mean, my goodness, there's a lot going on.

Yeah, well we're blessed in that. You know a lot of folks that you know, if somebody owns across at gym or functional fitness gym somewhere, they open their doors to us because they've been touched by addiction. And so that's how we get volunteered space across the country. Some places we have brick and mortar, but you know, it's really these like angel donors who want to make a serious change around this issue that have helped fuel the funding for building the app and the technology and for managing volunteer tiers at scale, because you know, I think next year we'll probably have five thousand volunteers just next year. So you know, it's a huge lift to do that. But when you look at the the financial cost, it's nothing compared to the financial cost of the current addiction crisis. It's it's a drop in the bucket the fuel phoenix at scale compared to the impacts on our community with incarceration and folks losing their lives. And then the compounding effect. Right, if those adverse childhoods experiences impacted you and I in that way, and then you lose a parent to addiction, or you lose a parent to incarceration, and those things begin to compound on the next generation. And so you know we need to move now. If we're looking at the overdose rates that you cited, which are true, and we're not even including alcohol and other illicit drugs in those numbers, then today's the day to start to stem the tide of it, or the next wave will be bigger. That's why we feel this urgency even after all these years.

Yeah, well we're blessed in that. You know a lot of folks that you know, if somebody owns across at gym or functional fitness gym somewhere, they open their doors to us because they've been touched by addiction. And so that's how we get volunteered space across the country. Some places we have brick and mortar, but you know, it's really these like angel donors who want to make a serious change around this issue that have helped fuel the funding for building the app and the technology and for managing volunteer tiers at scale, because you know, I think next year we'll probably have five thousand volunteers just next year. So you know, it's a huge lift to do that. But when you look at the the financial cost, it's nothing compared to the financial cost of the current addiction crisis. It's it's a drop in the bucket the fuel phoenix at scale compared to the impacts on our community with incarceration and folks losing their lives. And then the compounding effect. Right, if those adverse childhoods experiences impacted you and I in that way, and then you lose a parent to addiction, or you lose a parent to incarceration, and those things begin to compound on the next generation. And so you know we need to move now. If we're looking at the overdose rates that you cited, which are true, and we're not even including alcohol and other illicit drugs in those numbers, then today's the day to start to stem the tide of it, or the next wave will be bigger. That's why we feel this urgency even after all these years.

I think there's a I think there's two audiences to tell the story to. One are the audiences like me, the sappy, feel good guy that just wants people to be better in scott at.

I think there's a I think there's two audiences to tell the story to. One are the audiences like me, the sappy, feel good guy that just wants people to be better in scott at.

That thinking, I'm in that bucket.

That thinking, I'm in that bucket.

Yeah, So we ride the sappy bucket and we hope that the genuine care for those among us who are struggling or maybe not as fortunate as us is Then we're incentive by simply the motivation to care for those well. I hope that's the bigger group of people. But there's another audience here in my mind, and it's the pragmatist, and the pragmatists need to understand that if we don't do something about addiction, incarceration, what it's doing to the middle class in the United States, what it's doing to as socioeconomically. The pragmatist in us has to understand what does our culture look like in thirty years if we continue to allow lives, families, and neighborhoods to be destroyed by addiction. Because ultimately, the truth is the basis for a civilized society is a healthy tax space. And if you don't have a healthy taxpace, you can't build roads, you can't run sewers, and you can't do anything. And when your populace is not able to contribute to that healthy tax space, there's a pragmatist, pragmatic reason for fixing this too, which is our culture can literally fall apart under the weight of addiction, abuse, incarceration, poverty, and the rest. So while we do talk to the audience, mostly that's in my bucket and your bucket on the Philly good Side. The truth is, the inconvenient truth is there's a pragmatic reason that this work is so important, and it's literally a fight for our culture.

Yeah, So we ride the sappy bucket and we hope that the genuine care for those among us who are struggling or maybe not as fortunate as us is Then we're incentive by simply the motivation to care for those well. I hope that's the bigger group of people. But there's another audience here in my mind, and it's the pragmatist, and the pragmatists need to understand that if we don't do something about addiction, incarceration, what it's doing to the middle class in the United States, what it's doing to as socioeconomically. The pragmatist in us has to understand what does our culture look like in thirty years if we continue to allow lives, families, and neighborhoods to be destroyed by addiction. Because ultimately, the truth is the basis for a civilized society is a healthy tax space. And if you don't have a healthy taxpace, you can't build roads, you can't run sewers, and you can't do anything. And when your populace is not able to contribute to that healthy tax space, there's a pragmatist, pragmatic reason for fixing this too, which is our culture can literally fall apart under the weight of addiction, abuse, incarceration, poverty, and the rest. So while we do talk to the audience, mostly that's in my bucket and your bucket on the Philly good Side. The truth is, the inconvenient truth is there's a pragmatic reason that this work is so important, and it's literally a fight for our culture.

It is, it is, And I'm so glad you brought that up because I think that the thing that I saw most lacking in the addiction recovery field as I got into this work with the Phoenix is that that, well, often folks with addiction are seen as sort of a problem to be managed by like these top down solutions. And then and then also the system itself is really treating the symptoms, not the underlying why. But if you go back to that underlying why, it can manifest in a whole bunch of ways other than addiction. It can be chronic illness. It can be divisiveness, it can be othering of people. It could be anger, It could be that that, you know, fighting, the stuff that you kind of talked about like that can come out all sorts of different ways where we're we don't feel safe and supported and loved here, so we project out on the world some way that we cope that is often a negative way. And it's in that that I think these bigger societal issues are being eroded from a saint the same why. And I think if we can build nurturing community for a million people in recovery who've been through all this stuff with the ethos of we're here to lift each other up, I think we can do the same thing in our society more broadly, because we've proven it out on a big enough cross section of people that we would view as on the margins of our society. But the truth is they are us, we are you know, we are all rising from something. And if we actually just took a minute to help each other up from that, I think we'd have a different community.

It is, it is, And I'm so glad you brought that up because I think that the thing that I saw most lacking in the addiction recovery field as I got into this work with the Phoenix is that that, well, often folks with addiction are seen as sort of a problem to be managed by like these top down solutions. And then and then also the system itself is really treating the symptoms, not the underlying why. But if you go back to that underlying why, it can manifest in a whole bunch of ways other than addiction. It can be chronic illness. It can be divisiveness, it can be othering of people. It could be anger, It could be that that, you know, fighting, the stuff that you kind of talked about like that can come out all sorts of different ways where we're we don't feel safe and supported and loved here, so we project out on the world some way that we cope that is often a negative way. And it's in that that I think these bigger societal issues are being eroded from a saint the same why. And I think if we can build nurturing community for a million people in recovery who've been through all this stuff with the ethos of we're here to lift each other up, I think we can do the same thing in our society more broadly, because we've proven it out on a big enough cross section of people that we would view as on the margins of our society. But the truth is they are us, we are you know, we are all rising from something. And if we actually just took a minute to help each other up from that, I think we'd have a different community.

And can you imagine the reciprocal effect of the million people you serve twenty years later. That's a million interruptions of dysfunction. That's a million interruptions of the next generation to suffer the trauma of addiction. And just like the ball has rolled downhill into our culture on this addiction, it can roll downhill to health and redemption by interrupting it. That the numbers work the same way, both in a negative and positive way. And so you know, dude, have you taken a second to look through the shelf of the mirror and thing, Wow, I was climbing a mountain sixteen years ago and had a weird idea and a piece of paper on a corkboard, and it's phenomenal.

And can you imagine the reciprocal effect of the million people you serve twenty years later. That's a million interruptions of dysfunction. That's a million interruptions of the next generation to suffer the trauma of addiction. And just like the ball has rolled downhill into our culture on this addiction, it can roll downhill to health and redemption by interrupting it. That the numbers work the same way, both in a negative and positive way. And so you know, dude, have you taken a second to look through the shelf of the mirror and thing, Wow, I was climbing a mountain sixteen years ago and had a weird idea and a piece of paper on a corkboard, and it's phenomenal.

Yeah, it is. It's been an incredible journey. And what I'm really moved by is the people who've come alongside us, you know, the people who've who've come alongside as volunteers to carry the Phoenix flag in their community and take us everywhere across the country. And the Phoenix members themselves who take that ethos as a way of living and they bring it out into the world and start to interact in the world differently. And the donors who supported it to get it where it is, because you know, it's it's not a it's not a sexy issue to fund around, right, Like, it's not it's not something that we don't we don't build centers in hospitals to like look at this issue. It's it's something that usually lives in a darker shame place in our families and and in our society. And the folks that have that have put their their money sort of where their heart is to help Phoenix get to more folks. Those are the people I'm really moved by, but I'm also it's it's so cool to see Like I sometimes I'll travel, you know, around to meet with folks and different Phoenix chapters everywhere, and and somebody will see the Phoenix shirt and they're like, yo, man, you go to Phoenix. And I'm like, yeah, yes, yeah, been going there a long time. Yeah, And they're like, which one do you go to? I'm in Wichita, you know, And so it's just it's cool to see that that it is that it's they don't know me, they're from totally different places, but they know that like this, this bird means that that we'll reach our hand out to each other when we need it. And if we all did that, it would be a very different world.

Yeah, it is. It's been an incredible journey. And what I'm really moved by is the people who've come alongside us, you know, the people who've who've come alongside as volunteers to carry the Phoenix flag in their community and take us everywhere across the country. And the Phoenix members themselves who take that ethos as a way of living and they bring it out into the world and start to interact in the world differently. And the donors who supported it to get it where it is, because you know, it's it's not a it's not a sexy issue to fund around, right, Like, it's not it's not something that we don't we don't build centers in hospitals to like look at this issue. It's it's something that usually lives in a darker shame place in our families and and in our society. And the folks that have that have put their their money sort of where their heart is to help Phoenix get to more folks. Those are the people I'm really moved by, but I'm also it's it's so cool to see Like I sometimes I'll travel, you know, around to meet with folks and different Phoenix chapters everywhere, and and somebody will see the Phoenix shirt and they're like, yo, man, you go to Phoenix. And I'm like, yeah, yes, yeah, been going there a long time. Yeah, And they're like, which one do you go to? I'm in Wichita, you know, And so it's just it's cool to see that that it is that it's they don't know me, they're from totally different places, but they know that like this, this bird means that that we'll reach our hand out to each other when we need it. And if we all did that, it would be a very different world.

Clear picture of a Phoenix meeting. You're liable to have a line worker, an unemployed guy, a lawyer, a doctor that I've got to believe that the cross section of your members represents every possible race, creed, religion, faith, and walk of life, because we've got to be mindful that this addiction issue that you're attacked attacking is is not specific to any particular scidal group.

Clear picture of a Phoenix meeting. You're liable to have a line worker, an unemployed guy, a lawyer, a doctor that I've got to believe that the cross section of your members represents every possible race, creed, religion, faith, and walk of life, because we've got to be mindful that this addiction issue that you're attacked attacking is is not specific to any particular scidal group.

Yeah, that's exactly right. We have. We have folks, you know that that have widely different political bumper stickers on their cars when they pull.

Yeah, that's exactly right. We have. We have folks, you know that that have widely different political bumper stickers on their cars when they pull.

Up, you know, but it ain't cool to see them at the end of it, embracing and and and coming together around one thing despite their differences. They are amazing.

Up, you know, but it ain't cool to see them at the end of it, embracing and and and coming together around one thing despite their differences. They are amazing.

They're tying into the same climbing rope some nights in the climbing gym, or they're fist bumping after the CrossFit workout, or they're there for each other because one of them had a tough day and felt like drinking, but because his buddy's there, he didn't have to, because Phoenix was there for him that night. And that's that's what's special about it.

They're tying into the same climbing rope some nights in the climbing gym, or they're fist bumping after the CrossFit workout, or they're there for each other because one of them had a tough day and felt like drinking, but because his buddy's there, he didn't have to, because Phoenix was there for him that night. And that's that's what's special about it.

And a shameless plug is to me, that is the power of an army of normal folks coming together, regardless of who you are, what you believe, how you vote, who you love, you worship for any of that and joining in community and your organization is just yet another example of the power of that. And it's phenomenal. If somebody wants to join, somebody's looking for help, somebody wants to be a volunteer, or God forbid, somebody wants to open up their checkbook and help you grow. How do they reach you?

And a shameless plug is to me, that is the power of an army of normal folks coming together, regardless of who you are, what you believe, how you vote, who you love, you worship for any of that and joining in community and your organization is just yet another example of the power of that. And it's phenomenal. If somebody wants to join, somebody's looking for help, somebody wants to be a volunteer, or God forbid, somebody wants to open up their checkbook and help you grow. How do they reach you?

They can reach us at the Phoenix dot org to learn more, to donate on the website, and then you can also find us in the app store and it's the Phoenix a Sober Community. Look for that redbird and download the app and just jump in. You know, as soon as you come to your first event, if there isn't one around, you can come to virtual and then right away you'll have a notification on how you can volunteer and start Phoenix in your community.

They can reach us at the Phoenix dot org to learn more, to donate on the website, and then you can also find us in the app store and it's the Phoenix a Sober Community. Look for that redbird and download the app and just jump in. You know, as soon as you come to your first event, if there isn't one around, you can come to virtual and then right away you'll have a notification on how you can volunteer and start Phoenix in your community.

I actually read where it will actually give you a map of where stuff is going on. That's very cool. Explain that real quick.

I actually read where it will actually give you a map of where stuff is going on. That's very cool. Explain that real quick.

Yeah, so we just you know, as long as you leave your GEO locating on you can it'll it'll find the events that are near you and populate them in your feed. And then there's groups that you can join, you know, around different affinities, and you'll find folks across the country that support you on this journey.

Yeah, so we just you know, as long as you leave your GEO locating on you can it'll it'll find the events that are near you and populate them in your feed. And then there's groups that you can join, you know, around different affinities, and you'll find folks across the country that support you on this journey.

Scott Strode, the son of a a a struggling father, an alcoholic father in law, whose only respite was the trees and streams behind his dad's farmhouse, who who found his redemption on the side of a mountain one day and decided he wanted to start and start helping by posting notes on corkboard. Who now, sixteen years later, is going to serve literally millions grow. What an amazing story and I just cannot thank you enough for sharing all of it with us today.

Scott Strode, the son of a a a struggling father, an alcoholic father in law, whose only respite was the trees and streams behind his dad's farmhouse, who who found his redemption on the side of a mountain one day and decided he wanted to start and start helping by posting notes on corkboard. Who now, sixteen years later, is going to serve literally millions grow. What an amazing story and I just cannot thank you enough for sharing all of it with us today.

Thank you, and thanks for sharing your story too, because that vulnerability lets us bring that stuff into the light where that pain can.

Thank you, and thanks for sharing your story too, because that vulnerability lets us bring that stuff into the light where that pain can.

Heal and we could be a phoenix exactly.

Heal and we could be a phoenix exactly.

Yeap rising from the ashes.

Yeap rising from the ashes.

All right, man, thanks for being with us, Thank you, and thank you for joining us this week. If Scott Strode or another guest has inspired you in general, war better yet inspired you to take action by joining the Phoenix, starting a chapter in your community, donating to Phoenix, or something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and guys, I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, guys, please share it with friends and on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate and review it, become a member a premium member at normalfolks dot us. All of these things that will help us grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney, I'll see you next week.

All right, man, thanks for being with us, Thank you, and thank you for joining us this week. If Scott Strode or another guest has inspired you in general, war better yet inspired you to take action by joining the Phoenix, starting a chapter in your community, donating to Phoenix, or something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and guys, I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, guys, please share it with friends and on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate and review it, become a member a premium member at normalfolks dot us. All of these things that will help us grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney, I'll see you next week.