It is time for Amy and T.J. to address a topic that can be a source of conflict for most couples…$$MONEY$$
Now that they are a couple, things have changed, and money is something that has to be addressed.
Plus, in an interesting twist, the topic of the price of engagement rings is discussed.
Hey, everybody in this episode, will you marry me? And as a follow up to that, will you help me pay for the engagement ring? I just put on your finger. Welcome to Amy and TJ and rogues. Tell folks what they probably already know. What is, as we have seen in the surveys we've been watching and reading, the number one cause of fights and disputes in relationships.
It is money. Money, money.
Now would you one hundred percent agree with that based on your history the past thirty years of relationship?
Yes, yes, I would say that money has in one of my relationships definitely caused a significant amount of problems. And I actually think the money issue is maybe even a symptom of a larger issue where you don't operate the same way you don't maybe you have trust issues, maybe you have different ways of operating through life, and so it might, I think, point to a larger problem just in terms of your compatibility a right.
So that's the number one reason for disputes and relationships, And from also the surveys we see when it comes absolutely to divorce, what is one of the leading causes of divorce in this country?
Financial stress, money, Yes, And it's listed on every survey you can look at pointing to that being a leading cause of most divorces.
Okay, so most people we have we got enough issues in a relationship, but we start off in a marriage. And this comes from an oracle. A woman said that she took issue with her now husband because she found out after they got married that the ring that he put on her finger and he used to propose to her, he is now paying for and paying.
Off using the joint account.
Okay, is this now. Your initial reaction when this was forwarded to us was what? No, Well here, before we get into the details of it, just seeing the headline, what was your initial reaction?
Well, so, to me, the very significant phrase that stood out to me was found out. She found out that he was paying for the ring he proposed to her with with their joint account. There was not a discussion. She was surprised by it, and that I can understand not having known that that was happening, or not having discussed that that's how it was going to be paid for.
Okay, let me take it one step further. Okay, that one hundred percent agreement. She didn't know. So now she has found out and it's been explained to you. Is that something we can get past.
Yes, it's something we could get past, because if you don't have the money, you don't have the money. And I know they are I mean, I'm going to get into a little bit of the details here when I say this, But I read that they were saving to buy a house. So when you're actually talking about being a couple, being united and putting your money towards joint ventures as big as a house, then I understand why maybe why would one person just have to take on that expense, especially when it is a part of a wedding. It's not like he bought her birthday gift with it and then had her pay for it. This is some people could argue that the engagement ring is a part of the wedding expense.
What do you argue?
I Initially, I think I would be a little put off, Like, whoa you proposed to me with the ring that you couldn't afford. That sounds stupid. So that would probably be a little annoying to me. But I could get past it, and I can understand, but initially I would be I would be annoyed.
The next part of that is for me, what if you helped pick out the ring, so you which I saw on one of the wedding websites that seventy two percent of couples end up picking out rings together. So the man and woman and the women are a part of it. So if you pick out a ring you got your heart set on, and I know my raise ain't coming for another six months now, is does that change anything? You're telling me what I need to purchase for you?
That absolutely changes it for me. Okay, Yes, if we picked it out together and I knew exactly how much it cost and we were choosing it together, I don't. I actually think that's probably a smarter way to do it. But if you if you got the element of surprise and the guy wants to go make this gesture and he decides what ring he wants to buy, and he makes those choices, that is kind of on him. But yeah, if you go together and do it, I absolutely think that's a completely different situation.
Okay, way, So that sounds he sounds pretty definitive. All bets are off. If y'all picked it out together, y'all should pay for it together.
I think you can. I think it's understandable and reasonable. That you would, but I'm a big believer you need to have a conversation about it. I mean, I think that's the thing that was missing here, that they didn't have a conversation about what was happening. So yes, if they went to go pick it out together, I would absolutely want to participate in that and have us do a joint thing.
Yes, okay, how do you go about have that conversation? We picked out a ring together, But you have to be under you have to have an agreement that we are going to pay for this together.
You have to have an understanding about what each person is financially capable of covering. And so yeah, say you know, if you're the guy, hey babe, I really want to get you the ring of your dreams, but I don't have the money right now. I know, I totally get that. I totally get that we have a hard time deciding who's paying for dinner. So I you know, I think I can understand toime.
We do what we don't have hard let me so we don't have a hard time deciding.
We had a lot of back and forth in the beginning, and it was quite funny because if I tried to pay for some of it or all of it. I got a Venmo back immediately with an extra five dollars attached, saying that was funny. Sometimes you actually give me the middle finger emoji.
We'll edit that out. Tell me. We are from a different way, right, a different gener I want to say generation, but still we are older folks see it in a more traditional way. We go to dinner, the man pays. That's just it. From the moment I joined ABC News, you were already there. There's not a moment a day in our ABC careers that I made more money than you did. So but still, once we started dating, you didn't pay for a meal. I didn't have some expectation that I she's It's not like I was doing okay, right, That's what I'm saying. But the point there being, it's just in some of our minds that the guy always always pays. And so we had to work this out, you and I, and we have resolved it to where we do we have a joint account now, to where we go out, whatever we do. It's completely fifty to fifty in everything. But this one threw me because the first detail I wanted to hear was whether or not they had a joint account already heading into the marriage, Like, how long have they been together? Within a year or two years? Have they already gotten their finances together? I don't have that answer yet, because if you have a joint account and I need to go buy you a wedding ring, where am I supposed to pay? Where is the money? All my money is going into our joint account, So what are we supposed to do with that?
Yeah, I hear you, I hear you. I do know this detail. I know this detail that they got engaged and one month later were married. So in that very short month between the engagement and the wedding, they did go in and have joint accounts. So they have a joint account within a month. So if he couldn't have paid that off within a month, there was nowhere for it to come but from the join account.
But you're making the assumption that they only got the joint account in that month. My argument is that have they been together a year, two years, three year after all that time, sometimes you might already have a joint account together. So I don't know if this is the case. So let's say there is a joint account, this is all we have. I needs to go buy a wedding ring. Now, all of my paychecks have been going into the joint account. What how do I separate? How am I supposed to go pay for the ring on my own? If all my money's going in here? Do I put it on a secret credit card? What am I supposed to do?
Well, that's that's a whole other chain of events.
Let's go off the rails.
Secret credit card.
I'll not go off the rails. But if we have a joint account, you and I and I go and I am going to buy you a ring, where is the money supposed to come from?
I hear your point. That makes a lot of sense. So I'm assuming for her to be upset, there had to have been separate accounts, at least at the time the purchase of the wedding ring.
Okay, and what did the we're going to get into what this This young lady says she's twenty eight. I think the husband is thirty as soon to be ex husband. Emma's in here are our producer, Emma. What was her first can you read me that first quote from the woman, and this is this is fascinating.
Her first quote was I was just taking it back, and honestly put off by the fact that he's making me pay for a gift that he gave to me. We have been having some arguments slightly, and he feels that a ring is a wedding expense and it's only fair that I contribute towards it too, and that as a woman of this day, I shouldn't hesitate to be an equal partner.
That that's the conversation that should have happen ahead of time. Exactly, you're right, Okay, you can't. You can't argue with that. But what is his argument? What does that make sense? What if you would have said it ahead of time? But he's making an assumption, which he shouldn't have. But you give a gift, it's a conditional gift, right, so he can get it back.
That's true.
But if she's contributed now to the paying of this conditional gift.
It's it's is it partly hers? Yes, it absolutely is. And you're right because that is something of distinction when you talk about an engagement ring. If the wedding doesn't happen, the marriage doesn't happen. I believe it's within his legal rights to get that ring back because it was a promise for something, and so to that extent, yes, her point is that's what you do. The man buys the woman the ring, and then when you get married, that's the promise.
And now the ring is hers legally, and that's what courts have ruled all over this country, different states. That has kind of been the consensus.
So to her point, if she's helped paid for it, that's kind of taking away the whole point of what the ring is. I get that. So, but I understand what he's saying only if he had the conversation with her ahead of time. I think there is an expectation given all that we just said. Actually, now that we're talking about what it represents and the legalities of what the ring actually is, before and after the marriage, it would make sense that there would be an expectation that he and he alone would pay for it.
Okay, what do you think about the fact that you have a joint account, he's putting money into it, and if he has to take some of his money out of there to pay for the ring, does that make you feel better even though you're still.
Taking out Yeah, I know, I mean that's that'shilarious. No, I mean, yes, but.
Does it make you feel better?
Maybe? I guess maybe I think what it would be for me would be the shock of it, Like he hasn't talked about it, and all of a sudden you start seeing money leaving your joint account and you think to yourself, where what is this for? And then and then the conversation happens. I think that's the biggest issue. And avoidance is a huge part of this because I was reading so many articles fascinating reading up about money, finances, relationships, and it is one of those taboo topics that most experts and people who are in relationships would agree with. We'll talk about anything other than money, like it's easier to talk about sex, it's easier to talk about, you know, uncomfortable topics, even family, whatever, relationship issues. But people don't want to talk about money. And in one article I read, twenty five percent of the people surveyed did not know how much their significant other made. They didn't even know their salary. That's how much we don't talk about money with one another. Oftentimes, what's her nick?
Emma, what's the She has a couple quotes here, Emma, what was her? Next? One?
From the young lady, She says, First, you don't make the recipient of a gift pay for the gift. An engagement ring is considered a gift in the most modern societies, even today, and I don't care if you disagree with that. Secondly, I've unintentionally partially paid for two installments now, which makes me a part owner of the ring.
I think that makes sense. I would agree with her again without a conversation ahead of time or out, without saying, you know what, that's cool. I get it. We're in this together and we're trying to say for a house, which I think is totally reasonable. But without that conversation, what she's saying to me makes sense.
Give me the last one, Emma.
If I knew my husband was going to be making me pay for the ring, I wouldn't have agreed to buy it.
In quotes making me pay. I mean, that's some in Sindiari language.
She's mad, she's pissed, let's be honest, she's so pishy, took it to Reddit and want everyone else to weigh in. And actually a lot of people were not on her side. Yeah, to which you say, TJ.
We were we in a recent pot. It's just communication. We talk. We talk about this all the time. The shows we watch, it's all to see how people communicate or don't communicate is the key to everything. It's it's you can't it's hard to pick a right or wrong here. There's some details we are we're certainly not privy to, but I just all of your mon I am a joint guy. But everything we bring in is it's a joint situation, no matter who makes what. That's always been my mindset, even yeah and yeah, as the guy who has always been the higher earner in all of my relationships, that's still that joint. Joint, joint, joint. Some people say that's good. Somebody people say that's bad. Some say that's terrible, a terrible idea. And then the other option is to joint. You have your joint. I have my joint, and then we excuse me, we have our individual accounts, and then we have oneot not a big.
You know what, It's so funny. I've done it both ways. I've had everything in a joint, and then I've had a joint where you take you know, the household costs, and you put in percentage wise based on your salary. I mean I've done all sorts of crazy stuff and then had your individual accounts, and I do get it because it's kind of silly and semantics because if you do get married, whatever you all have together is marital property. So when it comes to if you end up divorcing or separating or having to split ways, you still end up having to split everything fifty to fifty by law. I mean, you can work out other arrangements, but technically that is what legally you're supposed to do. So it is maybe this silly notion of thinking I've got control of my money and he's got control of his money. But the problem with that is this separate way of viewing how you're living your life, from vacations to meals to whatever, and so it does create a separation. I understand that, and it makes sense to me. But I felt empowered to have my own account as a woman. I will say that, and I will also add this, it gets further complicated when you have children from other marriages involved, because now you know, it gets really complicated. Money is so it's such a taboo topic in so many ways because because it's about power really at the end of the day.
Right autonomy is a big part of this, right, Like I said, if you're going to be splitting and get a divorce, legally it is not going to make a difference. But that is a big deal, and maybe more so for women oftentimes who are not the primary bread wind or excuse me not the higher earners in a house, to have some kind of a feel like you don't you're not dependent on the person you're married to. If you want to go do this, do that have to ask permission to use that money.
Yeah, And that was that was huge for me, just to feel autonomous and to feel like I was able to take care of my daughter who I was bringing in from another marriage. So I think, you know, that can cause a whole other layer. I think of just needing to feel like I am I'm responsible for these other people and you're not. So I want to keep this money available to me to be able to put into a five to twenty nine or all of those other things. And also sometimes, I mean most of the times, people have very different spending habits. So think about the fight. If you've got the joint and one person's out spending all this money on luxury items and the other person's shopping, you know, very frugally. That can cause a lot of problems too, But the transparency might be better.
But that he's shaking his ass andy out the court in my eye, shaking his head. But the first thing that came to mind. You can argue about somebody's spending habits, the first thing they're going to say to you is, well, is my money that can't be healthy?
No, it can't be. But if it's in a joint account, wouldn't it even be worse?
But then that forces you to talk about it. You have to have a discussion about those habits versus you don't like the way that person's living because they are you're spending all your money over there. We saw this on one of the show what I don't know. We saw this going down. You're complaining about somebody's habits, but you can't control their habits because it's not your money. But that's not a healthy way in my opinion.
You are right, you are correct in fact, So this is the first time we've had this conversation about you being all in with a joint that's I didn't know that. I didn't know that that was the way you operated.
Yeah, you're the higher earner very much like you're funny, this is the first time in my advantage.
Oh my gosh. No. But I also feel uncomfortable being a working woman who is able to take care of herself to not contribute when it comes to going out on dates and meals and all of that. So initially when we first started dating, I felt really uncomfortable with you paying for everything on one hand. On the other hand, I'm going to be really honest here. I liked it. It was there's this thing about women, like, do we want to have this women's lib thing where we're independent and we can do everything ourselves. But there's still something in me that really appreciated the fact that you wanted to pay for the bills and you actually not wanted to. You insisted on it at all costs, And there was something really I thought beautiful about that. I don't know, you're a gentleman, You're you're you want to take care of the person you're with, and you want to take you know, you want to give financial support to that person or just make them feel comfortable. That there was something that I really did like about it. As much as I have maybe railed against it, you know intellectually I'm not going to it felt good to know that you were there saying I got this.
The other side to that, are there are women out there who will absolutely voice their opposition to such a thing modern times. I think the younger generation might see you or feel about it differently. But do you think most women will will say it to you publicly or they'll they'll they'll they have a difficult time admitting that, Yeah, I like it, Yes.
I actually was. I actually got smaller when I said it. I was like, I'm going to be honest, and I know some women will take issue with me, but I liked it. I did, and I want to contribute, of course, but just the gesture of it maybe was very meaningful to me.
And I used to give you a hard time about. We used to have to play like it was a weird game we play in a restaurant going to the restroom, like this is your fifth time Robock in the past forty five minutes because you're trying to find the waiter, Tom, because.
The only way I knew that I could pay the bill is if I got up and sneaked, you know, a credit card over to the waiter and say can you just take care of this? The problem was once TJ found out the venmo back and forth started, Oh my god, and the and TJ was brilliant and how he ended the venmo because I knew it was never going to end. He would venmo me back whatever the bill was, plus five dollars, and then I'd do the same thing back to him, and then he'd up at ten dollars. It's like, I can do this all day. I want to keep going. So and I knew he would, and so finally I was just like, uncle, fine, all right, you.
Got it, because yeah, you cost me one hundred dollars for lunch. Now I've had to pay you one hundred and twenty dollars on top, just to make a point.
So finally we and we did. I was like, we have to get a joint babe. I cannot because we can't keep doing this. So we did eventually get a joint account, but that was even that took longer than it should have because we had paparazzi on us and we didn't want them to see us going into the bank together.
Do you remember that.
Yeah, we were delayed getting a bank account together by at least six months because we couldn't figure out. We were on the phone with bankers. We were only trying to figure out if we could open up a joint account without physically having to go into the branch, and the answer was no. We couldn't figure it out. So we ended up delaying it by saying, so I'm still way behind in having any sort of equality with you. I mean, that's just the truth.
No, it's it's not no, no, but that we don't expect it to even out. I mean, we're not expecting anything returnal you know what. The only thing and women listen up to this. This is the only thing, Emma that we ask at that dinner. And I wish folks could see this, just that little gesture to where you're kind of reaching towards your person. Yeah, you don't really mean it. You don't really you're not gonna pay, we know, but you just make the little effort like you're reaching for it. And we know, Okay, she wants to wants to try it. She's given an effort instead of just sitting back waiting and expecting us to pay. That little gesture is everything that's all we need.
I would never I can't imagine doing that, But I guess and I don't know. We have some we have two younger people with us. But part of the reason I think why, maybe yes we want to women say these days, we can take care of ourselves. We're making our own money, we don't need you to pay for it, and you can and we get there a hundred percent. But there also is this notion with money that there are always strings attached. Is there an expectation of something, of a second date, or of something to happen later, or do I owe you? And no one wants to feel like they owe someone, So I think maybe that plays into it as well from a female perspective.
But is that only present in the first date or second date? I mean, once you get into a relationship and things are rolling, At what point, though, in a relationship you're actually dating somebody, do you start to split up the bill so you start to say, all right, you take this with I'll take this. When does that start happening?
I do TJ. When does that happen?
Oh, it hasn't happened yet. Not here again. Weird, you know, I don't know. There's never ever a time where I was ever dating anyone from high school on where there was a point in the relationship where okay, now it's time versus start splitting it up. I would prefer a woman you pay for it instead of us splitting the check. Splitting the check is embarrassing and impersonal and silly.
I think it puts you in the friend zone too. It feels like friends split bills. That's what we do. I would much rather, as you put it, like I got this one. You used to always say this, it all evens out on the end, doesn't.
This is how I say, we spend enough time together, but it doesn't even out because I went, we go to dinner again, and you paid this time. But when I am over at your place and you ordered the prosecco and the stakes and you ordered the takeout here, right, we're not keeping tabs of just we're together enough. You you buzz me into the subway sometimes that's two seventy.
You have then mowed me to seventy five. And I think you did it maybe two months ago, and I thought, really, we're still here. You're calling me for the subway car.
Because I don't ever want you to feel like I have an expectation that you should cover something, and it's just it's going to be a thank you. It's going to be something that acknowledges that you have done something for me financially. Yes, if that's a two seventy five subway rat, you.
Do take it to an extreme, but I also do appreciate the intent behind it. And I just Emma, I want to you. You go on a lot of first dates? Yes, yes, Why do you introduce her like that? So? I guess I was just jumping into the conversation we had had before the podcast started, So I apologize. We had already established that Emma as single and went on a first date. Sorry, I jumped in and just thought the viewers were already there and the listeners were already there anyway, So yes, I apologize for that, Emma. But have you ever paid for the meal or the activity on a first date?
No? I have not paid. I don't think I've paid ever on the first date, not by choice. But I think it's like you guys were perfectly saying that it's the gesture of the man wanting to pay and me accepting the kind gesture.
How would you feel if he suggested that you split it?
I would split it? But I don't think I would go on a second date with it really.
Wow, Why though, why is that such a turn off because you're twenty two? I just want to for folks to know who youre talking to here.
I think it's because the men in my life have treated me with that kind of kindness, and I like being treated that way by a man because I know that when they make money, they don't spend it as often as girls do. So when they want to spend money on a girl or spend money on something, I feel like it has more power or there's something bigger behind it.
So what would you say along the way of dating to where there would be an okay expectation of the bill being split or for you starting to pay for some of them?
I think once we were comfortable with each other and liked each other, because I would I'm all for wanting to split it or buy them Like I one time I was asked to buy someone a hot chocolate and I was so excited to buy and one because he always bought me up all my drinks and food. So like, I'm so into buying a guy a drink as well.
I'll go thanks for the stake, want some hot cocoa.
I mean, I believe we had some of those moments where I would think it was really really, I'm like, I got this one, and then you would laugh I did it on purpose? Well please let me.
That would the hell out of me.
I'm trying to give an example. We're at CBS getting like, you know, I don't know shampoo. I got this one.
You know, we tried that for a while. We tried the back and forth, but it always landed to where you were buying happy hour drinks, right, and with the bills thirty four hours. And for whatever reason, I'm at per Se trying to I.
Was like Morton's Steakhouse, it's your turn, right.
This all was all spawned from this conversation about the engagement ring, and I isn't it standard The guy gets the ring, proposes, but then you pay for your wedding bands. That's more of a joint expense.
Yes, yes, yes, I think that is the traditional way that people operate. I mean, you know, there's all sorts of traditions surrounding weddings that people don't necessarily do. The bride's family typically pays for the wedding, and the groom's only typically pays for the rehearsal dinner. But you know that doesn't always. That isn't always what happens these days. And I just think, you know, with women, more women being in the workforce and in the workplace and educated, like, we're capable of paying for things in a way that you know, past generations have not been. But I think some people still point to something as specific as the wage gap that still exists, and that could be a reason why men should still make the offer to pay.
I saw that. It's interesting, that's an interesting way to think about it, Like, hey, you're you're unfairly being paid more than I am. Anyway, Yeah, you covered the meal. Oh it's there's some logic to that. I mean, it's you could never quantify that, but still there's some logic to it. But the engagement ring part, and I would love to talk to these two and maybe we'll get a chance to at some point. Just the idea of the engagement ring I can't imagine. But I look at it this way. If you offered analyse a say, hey, I'm going to buy your car, you wouldn't just tell her go out pick whatever car you want, I pay for it. No, right, so I go with that. With the engagement ring, he had to have some kind of an idea. He didn't just like, Hey, what ring do you want and I'll go get whatever there had to be. If you had to have contributed, I would guess to the picking of the ring in.
Some way, the kind of rings she would like, the size of rings she would like. I mean, most women drop really heavy hints if they don't go shopping with the boyfriend. It's very much like, Wow, I really like that, you know, So I do think.
What do you like?
I'm simple? As I pointed out.
Both our producers like, no, really, what do you like? You know?
I I do like simple, I do like elegance, and I don't like flashy.
So what is that?
I don't know. I don't have an idea of it. I mean it's funny, oh shape, you know, I really really like. I don't know. I don't even need a diamond. I really A band is fine question with me.
Yes, So, being on a second marriage, do you think buying an engagement ring would deter a couple from getting married again? Officially?
First of all, it would be the third marriage.
I mean, if you're asking for a friend that's something else this would be so yeah, I mean my I think it's one of those when it is your first and hopefully it's your last engagement and wedding, I think maybe there's more of an emphasis placed on all of those traditional things, including an engagement ring. I don't feel that way now. For me, it's about the relationship and it's about the the commitment. It really isn't about the symbol of it. But I totally get it the first time and hopefully for most people the last time around, it is important and it does signify something and there something beautiful too, So I get why there are so many expectations and so much money spent on these types of of of I guess that's just like a symbol of your commitment. I don't really place a lot of value on that anymore. Just truthfully, I don't on the traditions of it, well, yes, on the traditions of it and having the ring, I just for me, that's not it's not it's not even in my head. I couldn't even tell you what I would want or what I would what I would choose or yeah, and I wouldn't want anybody to break the bank or spend money they don't have ever.
Okay, somebody checked the time code on that he wants. And we keep referring to these shows and they're they're wildly entertaining, silly at times, but there's so fascinating to listen to people talk about marriage and what they want in their expectations. We're sitting here a whole conversation based around a ring, right, and an engagement ring, and that didn't go well, and you were just saying about the traditions and first time around you were into this and maybe not so more much. Now what do we always say? Now? And hearing people discuss their relationships, they're focused so much on I want a husband, I want a wife. This is my dream wedding, this is my dream ring. So much emphasis is put on the wedding and these traditions and not enough on the actual relationship, the marriage. We were talking about this this is our latest podcast. Right, people have bad moments in a relationship, but that could be a great relationship just to have some bad moments. There are other relationships that are bad relationships and have some great moments.
Yep.
Every once in a while. Don't ignore the fact that you got a bad relationship, and we can't ignore the fact that we got a great one just because we have a couple of bad moments. And that is what we have noticed is missing all the time as we watch people communicate in relationships. And so this is another we're talking about all this and money and this and that. That's really not where the focus should be. And I get it. Yes, we had to go through a lot of experience and difficult experiences to get here. But I could recommend to anybody you should not want to get married until you find somebody you want to get married too. Those are two different thing, right, people are twenty five now and single, thirty and single, whatever. I want to get married. I want to get married and want to get married. Emma, you want to get married one day? Yes, okay, I encourage you to change that thinking. Right, It sounds good, It sounds like a fantasy. But there's gonna be somebody that comes along in your life and you're going to say I want to marry him instead of just wanting to get married. And I could absolutely say that about you. You're not going back and forth about this all the time, like I want to marry you. I don't need to, but I want to be married too, and that's such a different thing as we sit here and talk about engagement rings and joint account Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting having gone through this now both of us twice, and I know that can be joke material, but I actually think it's been such hard earned. God, I mean just I've learned so much through going through both of those relationships and now being in this one with you. And to your point, we all get caught up in the traditions and in the expectations and in what we think we're supposed to do or what looks like the next thing to do. But interestingly, now with the choice totally in front of us to get married or not for us, we're kind of on the fence and laughing about it because it doesn't matter because we know we want to be with each other, we want to marry each other. We don't have to necessarily get married because of what that represents. It's almost for everyone else and not for you, And so I just we've been watching these shows and it's and I get it. I've been swept up in it. We all have. But it's about almost the you know, going through these moments in life that you look forward to maybe as a young girl or a young boy and then getting to do those things, but it's not as focused on the relationship and the person and what comes after the wedding. All of that somehow gets lost in the shuffles so many times, and then you're like, and in these shows they say, oh, man, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be. Yeah, this isn't what I signed up for because the focus hasn't been on the person. So yes, and I'm not faulting, cause we've all been there, and I get the excitement of all of that and the ring and the wedding dress and all of that. But at the end of the day, it's about the relationship and most importantly, it's about the communication. And that's what's missing in this specific story is the communication.
Isn't that something we've gone all and talked about all this That problem could have been solved with talking yep, ibby damn.
Talking about money, talking about what you have and talking about what you don't have. And that's okay too, you know. I think, like you said, it's hard for men to open up about not maybe having the amount of money they want to have or And there's so many times you see people not disclosing the debt they have because when you marry someone, you don't just get their bank account, you get their credit score and you get their debt and that all is your responsibility too when you get married. That people don't think about. So having these conversations about money is very important.
Well, my credit score was higher and my debt was lower before I bought the engagement ring.
Ah, yep, all of that matters. It all contributes to the end game. And if you're in it together, it is about figuring it out together. I mean, do you consider yourselves partners in every way? Because marriage, gosh, it started out as a business. Wasn't it a financial enterprise to begin with? Isn't that really a lot of the reasons why we even have marriage. So to not acknowledge that there is a financial aspect to it and it is a business agreement in a way. You're merging in every way, including financially. But you and if you don't talk about the finances behind it, what you bring to it, that's the recipe for disaster.
Average costs of a an engagement ring in this country, your guests would be how much handy.
I'd probably go with like their twenty thousand.
What where the hell did you grow up? Jesus Christ, what would you say the average cost of a wedding ring engagement ring in this country?
Fifty thousand?
What?
Okay, I'm telling you I already like my first one was three thousand, and I didn't even really have one the second time, so I did it was I didn't So I was just.
Thinking, like inflation, maybe I am.
I am living in another world. If that's real. If those numbers are close to being real.
Wow, they are not.
Okay, they are actually Like I was, like, I really think my one was three thousand dollars in my second one didn't exist.
They are not close to being accurate. Actually, good, I feel better now they're actually higher. I'm kidding. I'm kid, I'm kidding. I'm getting it almost still out of my im that the average is about fifty five hundred bucks. Okay, the average in the country or a wedding for an engagement ring. Now, what area of the country would you say they're most expensive? Who's spending the most in?
What? Mukers?
The mid Atlantic area is actually where so up in our region? So that's about seven grand average. And then the Midwest. In the Midwest is the lowest average or engagement rings about forty nine hundred bucks.
But still that's more than I thought. If you would ask me, I would have guessed thirty five hundred.
And that's a lot of money for anywhere in anybody. This three old everybody's familiard. They still do the three month thing.
Yeah, three months salary, that's what they say. Well, yeah, well, then maybe I guess Andy and Ma's numbers would be closer to correct if you talked about this region.
Yes, but the three month through and people still go by that, and a lot of guys I would assume still go by that. But it the experts will tell you stop stop stop thinking about that number. Stop thinking about a three month salary rule. They say it was just made up by the industry, the jewelry industry, to try to get people to spend money a higher amount on it.
I also think this is a cautionary tale because we do know the close to fifty percent of all marriages end in divorce. If you think you've got some valuable property in a ring, no matter how much you've spent, wait till you have to try to sell that said ring. It is pennies to what you actually purchased. So these these these beautiful pieces of jewelry don't appreciate. In fact, it's like buying a car. The second you try to sell it after you've purchased it, it goes down significantly in value. So just just a little, just a little, what do you do.
With that ring? Does somebody want a ring that has a divorce on it? No?
I think you know you can sell it back to a jeweler. You can, you know, give it to your daughter, you know whatever. But yes, it's tough.
One question I have so like, I know, promise rings have become like a really big thing. How do you guys feel about that? Because they know, like Larisa Pippin and Marcus Jordan did that and like and they're together.
I actually they might be back together again.
Okay, I'm just kidding in talking.
About both like the financial strain and engagement ring can put on you and like the pressures of marriage kind of staying away. Ah, Like it is a promise ring, a compromise, I guess that's what I'm saying.
It seems so weird to to plan another prenuptial agreements out there to plan for the potential demise of your marriage. As you're planning for the marriage, right, I am buying a ring just in case I get divorced. I am going to only do a promise ring because things might not work out. I get it that is probably the safe thing to do given the numbers, But that is something about that feels odd as I as I sit here with you with a ring around your neck.
Yes, because we had that same conversation, so yes, and.
You were going to do this. Okay, Wall, let's not do this. Okay, we'll skip it, but go ahead. I don't have to answer his question.
I think any gesture of wanting to be together is beautiful, and I think it's a beautiful thing to give or to receive. And it's a promise, and there's nothing legally binding you to that person. But I actually, as we've discussed, don't mind that concept at all. What to just promise to be together? We don't have to have a judge, you know, sign something.
Weren't you all in here for the episode in which she said he wanted you'll hear for that, right, Okay?
But I think there's something beautiful about that, I've told you how much beautiful, I said, beautiful, No, and I fully discussed how much I love Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell's relationship and they are not married.
And then what did she say? Guys right after that? You you did not get away from the idea that, Yeah, I intellectually, I know it's silly, but still I would prefer a marriage and a judge to sign off it, because it's it's it's it's it's more than a promise. It's harder to break up. You actually said, I did.
I did, but I still can say that I think the idea of the promise ring and the choice to be together is a beautiful one.
All right, Well, we are rooting for this couple. Who knows what happens to them. Maybe we'll we will get a chance for them. But I'm always all, I just do. I root for love and happiness, and I hope they get this worked out, and if they don't, then I hope they're okay down the road. I just it's it's it's tough. I hate to hear them starting out this way.
But perhaps by her even bringing this up and having a conversation about it, we're talking about it, maybe they will have better conversations in the future. This is a big warning, sound like, whoa screwed up here? We didn't have this conversation then, but let's do it now and let's keep doing it. And I think it's also something I was surprised and then I had to reflect back and be honest about how little I've talked about money and how often it has bread resentment and frustration, and you don't discuss it for whatever reason because it feels icky, it feels tacky, right, But the truth is it's such an important part of how you live your lives together, and if you can't talk about that, there's probably bigger problems you have to deal with as well. So it's just a reminder to communicate and to talk about stuff. Talking about the hard stuff is how you get through the big things in life. And my mom always said this, and we've talked about this. You're never fighting about what you're fighting about. So you can fight about money, you can fight about whatever, but at the end of the day, it's pointing to a larger communication issue that you probably have.
Who are you fighting about? Just just yesterday we were fighting about something.
I don't remember. I remember having a lovely day.
No, no, something on. We were disagreeing about something here that was so ah. It was who ordering dinner, ordering lunch or you say, I'd never tell you what my order is, right, So we were fighting about that. So what is our bigger issue? Because that's we were fighting about something else? As your mom would say, right, you're not really fighting about what you're fighting about. So what are we really fighting about?
Rose, I don't know, right, Can you tell me?
No, me not sharing my appetizer order is a symbol of a bigger problem.
Well, see, here's the deal. I don't think we were fighting. I think we were teasing each other, which is different. If we were actually fighting, then maybe I could come up with what was behind it. But I think we were just teasing.
All right, Well, Andy, we appreciate you all as always chiming in here, and folks, look help you. You know what, There's got to be a takeaway. Everybody goes through this in relationships, so hopefully there's some takeaway which you can always find us and chime in on the conversation if you'd like. On our official instagram, the show's instagram at Amy and t day podcast you can find us as well, But until next time, roll up your parting thoughts to all those lovers out there, talk
To each other.