Commissioner Jill S. Robbins

Published Oct 1, 2018, 7:00 AM

This week Laura sits down with the Honorable Jill S. Robbins, one of the most sought after private judges in Los Angeles. The two legal professionals discuss the pros and cons of litigating a divorce versus mediation, and doing your divorce online. they . Judge Robbins reveals the challenges she’s faced making the most equitable decisions for everyone involved, including the one time she had to award full custody to one parent because the other was abusing substances. At the top of this episode Laura and Johnnie review the divorce news of the day.

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Thank you for listening to this podcast one production available on Apple Podcasts and podcast one. Hi there, It's Laura Wasser And if anyone knows how much divorce sucks, it's me. I've been practicing family law for over twenty years and I've worked on thousands of divorces. Creating peace and families is how I lost my voice. From the top of the food chain all the way down to my very first case, which was my own divorce when I was five. I wrote the book on divorce, or I wrote a book on divorce. It's called it Doesn't Have to Be that Way. How to Divorce without destroying your family or bankrupting yourself. That book became a best seller because it presented another option for ending a marriage, one that doesn't necessarily include lawyers, and one that leaves more money in both parties bank accounts and less animosity in their hearts. We created It's over Easy but one stop break Up divorce resource online with the same principles in mind. So welcome to the Divorce Sucks Podcast. When we talk about breaking up, getting divorced, and moving on, good morning, we talk good morning, good mornings, Good morning listeners. It's Johnny Rains and Laura Wass are joining you here for the Sunny Side Up Report on divorce sucks. Good morning. The Sunny Side Up Report is where we talk about anything that's interesting happening with regard to relationships and breakups during the week. You want to know what our lead story was this week? And I kid you not Fortnite. It's a video game. My thirteen year old plays it incessantly. It may cause me to divorce him. Um is a leading cause for divorces in the UK. I must have read six or seven different articles about this. The study was conducted by Divorce Online, which is a company that claims to be one of the largest filters for divorce petitions in the UK, and they found that Fortnight Battle Royale was cited as the reason for at least two hundred divorce petitions since January of two eighteen. Unbelievable and just for some contacts Johnny, that's about five percent of all the divorces filed on their site. So while we might be shocked UM, divorce Online Headquarters doesn't quite have their jaws hanging to the floor because the spokesperson for their company said the game is grounds for another addiction that winds up driving couples apart. It's insane. You know the thing about back in my day or back in our day, that's your bed. Video games were fun, and they certainly I don't think they sparked people to go do mass shootings or get divorced or any of these tragedy. I think people should just get off the games. Get off the games. I mean, are you listening, Luke. It's my son. I literally have to take his phone away from him. No more games, Luke, No, no more games. The next thing that I think was really interesting and is I'm moving it right through the pop culture lexicon is that Lilo's step mom just filed for divorce from Michael Lohan. Lindsay Lohan. Okay. Next then, also from you know pop culture press, looks like Melanie Griffith reflects on her divorces and reveals whether she'd get married again. Didn't you represent Melanie Griffith. She's lovely. Hi, maybe she'll come do the podcast one day since she's reflectings. Would love that she looks beautiful, come join us on divorce Sucks. The other thing that I thought was very interesting about the news of the day is what's happening on our blog. We had a great article from the chicks that creating the Coffee table book, the divorce Dress. They're dying to get you in the dress, by the way, So they take this dress that Kendra, who's one of the co authors, got married in, and they have taken that dress and they put it on all these different people after she got divorced to salvage the dress. And we have a coffee beautiful photos of all these different people wearing this dress across the across the country, the same dress, the same dress. So they clean the dress. I think they clean it. I would do it if I could wear the headpiece that um um what's her name from Sex in the City, Carrie, Yes, right, she will remember that blue bird thing. It's so beautiful. Can we get that and then I'll wear the dress. I think I think that they would be willing to get you the headset. That not a headset. This is a headset we have on right now. Head dress, head dress. Yeah, So what's the difference between a head dress and a tiara. Tiara is like actual jewels generally, and it's just kind of a crown type of a thing. But the head dress was more of a I mean it was almost like what do they called not an invest I'll think of it, but it was it was a wing. It's beautiful. Well whatever it takes to get you in that dress. I mean, look at some of the people that they've wearing the dress. Oh jeez, I mean I think they go to any great to have you wear it. What's their website? It is the divorce address dot com. Alright, check that out. That's actually interesting and what is the point? Just the collection of stories about relationship endings from across the globe, told through haiku photo stories. And when you go on you'll see there's many men wearing dress too. Well, you know, men get divorced too. Yeah. I don't usually get Mary wearing a dress though, because even a mermaid wearing the dress. All right, what else? What else we got? There's a lot of gossip out there, you know, but we try to keep it focused. Um, But there is something interesting happening with Facebook and Instagram. It's like a little bit of a business divorce. The Instagram's co founders are stepping down from the company. In the New York Times, there's an interesting story about that. So Kevin Sistrom and Mike Krieger, co founders of Instagram, have resigned and planned to leave the company in the coming weeks, adding to the challenges facing Instagram's pant company, Facebook. Speaking of a shop, you'd like to check us out on Facebook, our Instagram, we are on. It's over easy, and we have all kinds of things that are happening, not only with the Divorce Sex podcast, but with the website and content and our index which provides many, many, many different individuals who can give you support as you are going through the divorce process and thereafter. In Entertainment News, Justin Thorrow says his divorce from Jennifer Andison was heartbreaking. No, that's too bad. Um. I believe that he coined a new phrase in that that was gentle separation, right up there with um conscious uncoupling. So again, people are getting with this trend of divorce disruption, disrupting the industry, doing things in a way that makes more sense both emotionally and financially to keep you healthier. Moving on. While Jennifer Andison and Justin throw did not have children, it looks to me from these articles that they're gentle separation was one that enabled them to remain friendly. That wasn't a bunch of mud slinging in the media, And I firm want to appreciate that, because that's really not any fun to read about. So good job, guys. And I know that we hear conscious uncoupling all the time, and you and I have discussed it and it's not, you know, one of our favorite terms. But what's the difference between that and gender separation? That doesn't sound like there is any difference. It's just that you know, these these are both terms coined and again, if a celebrity is doing it or saying it, people are going to fall in line after thereafter, Um, it's something that makes sense, which is thinking about what you're doing and doing it in a way that is respectful, civil, cost effective. UM. I will say again, as I've said before, that conscious uncoupling was much healthier than unconscious coupling. Think about it. Yeah, and I guess unless right then it's you know, both are equally as safe as possible. UM. So let's see what else have we got. The other thing that's interesting going on today is that today is National voter Registration Day. Oh gosh, get out there, folks, Get out there and vote. I promised I wouldn't talk about any political issues on this. Just go vote, and I trust you're going to vote the right way. Just go vote. Our country is really circling the drain here, and I think a big part of it has to do with people not taking the time to get out there and cast a vote. So you don't get to complain about it if you did exactly six weeks from today before the midterm elections. So we've got it sometime to register. And if you need an incentive to register, if you happen to catch the president of our country at the United Nations this morning, it didn't go well from just google it, Okay, that's it's over easy, Sunnyside Report. Pluto TV is the leading free streaming television service. Watch over one television channels and thousands of movies on demand and completely free. Pluto TV never asked for a credit card. You don't even need to sign up to watch for free. Pluto TV is the easy and completely legal way to watch your favorite TV shows and hit movies for free. Are you getting that it's free? What are you waiting for? Never pay for TV again? By downloading Pluto TV, you can download Pluto TV for free on all of your favorite devices today, including your phone, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, Smart TVs, PlayStation, and anywhere else you stream. Today's episode of Divorce Sucks, hosted by me Laura Wasser, is about the family law system in the California courts. Whether you're navigating your own divorce on It's over Easy or working with attorneys or mediators, family law regulates your divorce, the division of your marital assets, payment of spousal support, and if you have kids. The law sets forth guidelines by which you and your ex and the judge if you go to court, will determine legal and physical custody. We're in the studio today with the honorable Jill S. Robbins a k A Commissioner Robbins a k A. Jill who practiced family law for fourteen years, sat as a family law judicial officer in Los Angeles County for a decade, and who was now one of the most sought after private judges in southern California. She's been named one of the top neutrals in California by the Los Angeles Daily Journal. She's a wife, a mom, and a nana and someone whom I am lucky enough to know very well personally and professionally. Jill, you're a formidable, badass woman who has decided the fate of many families, including your own. Thank you so much for joining us today, and welcome to divorce sucks. Wow. Thank you for the compliments. Um, you know I was a badass. I'm happy to know that that's how people think of me. Yes, divorce generally does suck, and although the lead up to dissolving a marriage may be difficult or suck, as you say, the next chapters for the parties may actually be better than they expected. Just about every case I successfully mediate results and a benefit to both the parties and the children. The parties because they're saving substantial funds and attorney and accounting fees sorry about that, UM, because they avoid a trial, and they achieve certainty and participating in a solution, UM and not having someone they don't know make the decision for them. They actually help structure the deal. So all of that I think results in some kind of emotional peace for the parties and for the children where the parents learn to resolve custody without litigation. That children feel it, They feel everything that's going on in your lives. There's nothing better than a child seeing parents at a soccer game who are sitting next to each other say hello, Who are at the school play together? Who asked questions of the other parents like how are you doing? Or how is your job? So the kids see that, and and once the parents are under roll, so to speak, it often continues and there will never be custody litigation. When there are high conflict cases, we also resolve custody. However, in those cases I usually recommend a parenting coach or therapists so the parents actually learned how to talk to each other. UM a novel concept or a specific example. UM. It was a case that went to trial when I was still on the bench, which was more than high conflict. It was very sad. Mother had been a great mother, a really great mother, until drug addiction which made her seriously dangerous to her children. So I gave the father full legal and physical custody. And that was about probably thirty years ago, where it was almost unheard of, but it was so severe that it was something I felt I had to do. I gave the mother monitor time. Three years later, she walked into my courtroom and I kind of had some trepidation because I didn't know what she was going to do. So I looked at the bailiff and we had a a wink kind of thing where he knew it was time to just make sure everything was secure. So instead of me actually being nervous, UM, I felt great afterwards because she came back to thank me. Um. She said because of what I did, she was able to get clean and she had been clean and sober for two years. That's amazing, I know it was. It's like kind of warm and toasty feeling and I still get chills when I think about it. And she also said that she and her husband, her ex husband and were able to talk to each other and communicate and and so there was a really nice result from something that I felt very badly about when I did it. And do you feel, Jill that in your role as I mean, let's just explain to our audience, Commissioner Robbins is now a retired judge, which it does is what some people used to refer to as rented judge work, and we don't like to refer to it as that, but basically, the parties pay by the hour for a retired judicial officer to either be their mediator or neutral, or be they're sitting bench officer in a private venue with a court reporter making decisions on the record which will stick. So do you have a preference for which of these you like doing? I know what you're gonna say, but tell tell our audience, Well, actually, I I really don't. UM. I love trials because they're easy, so you just you just take notes, you make a decision, and you don't have to really worry about um making the parties or helping the parties agree. Mediation is much more difficult, but it is also much more rewarding because you know that you've helped people who really needed help, and and most walk away either sad, a spide a little bit unhappy. Some I'm even happy because it's over. So if I had to choose one or the other, I think because of the fact that mediation really helps people, I would have to choose that. And I mean, it is interesting you mentioned even even this woman that had custody removed from her for a period of time and then came back was able to effectively communicate and co parent with her ex. I find that mediation is often the first step to kind of getting the tools that a couple needs to be able to co parents. Sometimes they don't have kids, but they're dealing with some kind of a family business or an asset that needs to be sold. People that were not able to effectively communicate during their marriage, often as a result of mediation and often in kind of a private setting, are able to figure out how to communicate, and then maybe next step is, yes, working with a co parenting coach or somebody else that can help them with those tools. But in my personal life, I know so many friends and acquaintances who now deal better with their exes as living apart but having this partnership in terms of co parenting or something than they did before, and they really are very dear friends with them, they consider them family, and they will say the first step to learning how to do that was splitting up and getting into a mediation type of a process. To feel that that's probably accurate, I absolutely agree with every word you said, truly. Um. And it's interesting because everyone's in a while and in a high conflict child custody case where I'm in mediation, and I have read the papers and it's just almost unbelievable what they're fighting about. I'll get the parties in the room together though they haven't talked in probably a year, or only by email or text, and I'll ask them to ask the other person a question about custody, about the weekend or or if there's a birthday party or whatever. And I listened to how they talk to each other, and usually it's pretty bad. So I'll then look at them and say, you know, you could have said that a different way. Let me let me explain how I would have said that. And so then they practice a little bit and it's it's really interesting. I haven't done it a lot, but when I do it, you find that after the third or fourth question, they start talking a little bit differently. And so that's why I think a parenting coach is so important in those cases. That's not something I do, but I like to show them, Look, here's here's what you've just learned, and now you can take that and work with someone to help you continue to do that. I believe that the family law system, and not just in California, by the way, but nationwide, is broken. I think our courtrooms are too clogged. I think that UH attorneys often will not be problem solvers and try to get the parties to the next step. UM, when we talk about the system being stagnant or fluid, I think it's a bit stagnant, and I think, well, I know that we created it's over easy to give people again tools to navigate their own divorce conveniently online. We educate them about family law and the laws in their state and make each step intuitive, but the site requires people to ultimately agree on the bottom line of their stipulation and their dissolution. In your experience, Jill, as a private judge, do you find that at the end of the day, most people getting divorced need an attorney? I don't know, because I only see the ones with attorneys, so I don't handle any cases with the parties who are what we call improper who do not have attorneys. I think for many people without assets, or with limited assets, or with no children, or with an agreement with respect to their children, or where there is not a request for support or a limited request, they could probably do that without an attorney. But UM, for more sophisticated cases, I think people need attorneys. And do you can you tell within the first fifteen twenty minutes of a mediation how things are going to go down. Most of the time I can usually tell than two minutes, because because a lot of times you walk in the room and the tension is so sick, or you walk in the room and the husband or wife go over to the other one and hug them hello. But even in those cases where you think, oh, well, you know, I mean, this one's going to settle those you can you can sometimes just work your fannie off, get to get it done. And the ones where they really had so much high tension, part of it I think was because they were nervous, so they were scared or what's going to happen. So I have a pretty good idea of the personalities pretty quickly, especially every once in a while, have someone interrupted me when I do what I call an opening ceremony where they tell them what's going to happen and I tell them about me, and I can recite that. By the way. I know I'm interrupting you now, but you know that there's that scene in UM. It's the Camera and Chrome movie that Kate Hudson was in, and she stands up UM and she does the whole flight attendant thing. Please you know, put your seat backs down, on your trade tables forward and all that kind steps. I can do that one, I can do that, But I can do your opening ceremony for sure. I sat on the bench for this many years, and on the third good day I'd have thirty cases and on a bad day, oh yes, go ahead. Sorry. So, so when someone interrupts you, someone, someone interrupts me like Laura just did. Um, when a party interrupts me, then I know, oh my gosh, this is this is a controlling really a controlling person. And that just tells me right away. Um. So it doesn't happen often. It probably happens in maybe of the cases I do. But but when it happens, then I'm on guard. And what do you think the attorney's role in all of this is again focusing on mediation. And I'm sure you and you don't have to name names. I'm sure you have certain ones that you know, oh, this person is gonna not make it easy. We're going to be here till late tonight whatever. And then there's some that I know you really know how to be a chameleon and speak with their clients. But how how instrumental are the attorneys and in getting things resolved, they can be instrumental or they can be blocked. So you know, a lot of times attorneys and I'm married to an attorney, so I really love attorneys, But a lot of times attorneys can be more interested in crushing the other lawyer because they've had a bad experience or getting a deal for the client that the client, you know, says, look, I'm you know, I'm okay with less money, or I'm okay with an extra day, or I'm okay with whatever. But but the lawyer wants that that extra push. And that's when I jump in and I say to the lawyer in front of the client, you know, your client really wants to do this deal, So I think I think we may want to talk about just leaving that alone and going forward with what your client wants, because because the blockers, as I call them, um, can make things very uncomfortable. And then there's the high low. You know, the attorneys. I've worked with so many attorneys that I know some of them always come in way high on everything, right. The other one comes in way low on everything, and so I know how to deal with those. And then there's the ones who come in just about where their position is, and you know they're not going to move very much, right, So I think it's really important that you know who you're dealing with. And if you don't know the attorney, then you just kind of have to feel it out right, speaking of walking into what is already a high conflict situation and just you know, navigating the room years ago when I was a baby attorney, and I think this is when you were on, but you weren't. You hadn't arrived yet when this happened. Chills not often late, but on this occasion, she was much to my dismay. Of course, you had to mention that I walked and I had a client who had unfortunately um cheated on his wife, and so she was there with her attorney, and I walked in with my client and and and our neutral commissioner Robbins hadn't arrived yet. And when I walked in, I said to the woman, Hi, I'm Laura Wasser, and she completely ignored my outstretched hand, looked at her husband and said, so rob are you taking her too? And I thought, how God, this isn't gonna go well, Well that happens, I mean, I mean that happens all the time. There's always, I can't say always. A lot of the time, there's a extra and you know, there's a backstory somewhere after about maybe a half hour or hour, and so I'll say to the lawyers, you know what's going on here, so tell me, tell me what happened. So it could be a gambling issue, it could be an affair. I had one case. It was actually at your office where I walked in and only the wife was sitting there, and she had on a very low cut top and it was rather obnoxious the way she looked. You can just imagine. So then the husband walked in and he had a low cut. He did not he had a high cut time. But he looked at her and he said what he said and in a very loud voice, I'm out of here, you bitch. I wanted you to get your boobs done for ten years, and you waited until after we separated. So then I had to go running down the hall after him, and you know, try and make it work. Blah blah blah. Anyway, yeah we did a closer, we did. But that happens. I mean, you know, you just you walk in, you never know what you're going to find um. I know that a lot of our listeners, I mean one of the things. And again part of it's over easy and our content is to educate people. I know a lot of them are thinking, well, how does it work? Like when Commissioner Robbins is hired to media a case, how does it work? So we talked a little bit about like you giving your opening statement and that's with everybody in the room, correct, And then we kind of break usually into groups, and you do what we call like a shuttle diplomacy. You'll go into one office and one lawyer and one party will be there. You'll talk to them. The other office you'll go in and talk to them. Sometimes there's some accountants involved. Sometimes there may be some mental health professionals involved, and you kind of do your thing by going to the different you know, areas, speaking to the different people. I think you once told me that it's very important for individuals to kind of have their day in court, and so they will be able to say to you in that moment, in that room with their attorney and you their grievances. They'll be able to give the judge an idea of what's happening. It makes any difference to you or not because you said this to me before too. He could be an asshole of a husband. He could still be a good dad. But she may need to tell you about all the things he did, how he always left the toilet seat up, how he never put the cap back on the toothpaste. That's my house. Then you go into her, and then you go into him, and he talks about how he for years and years and years asked her to get her breast done. Whatever else. Give us a little bit of insight how it is, because people listening will want to know how does that actually work? And what does she do? And what is she saying in the other room, and does she say one thing to one side and one or the other. Give us not only some insight from you in terms of being the closer, so to speak, but for what people might expect if they are going to go down this road of mediation with a private, judicial officer or neutral. Please, I can only say what I do because we're all different. Um. I am the direct, evaluative, opinionated, aggressive, assertive kind of mediator. So everybody doesn't need that. Some people need someone more soft. Some people might just want an attorney mediator, so I usually get the higher conflict cases. UM. I start out after my opening ceremony often talking to accountants, lawyers together to find out whether there have been any settlement discussions, because I don't want to reinvent the wheel. If if they're already part way there, and if it's a business valuation, for example, I'll sit there and try and get everybody a little closer, and then I'll go shuttling back and forth. UM. I don't take no for an answer easily. UM. I let people vent. But I think the most important thing that one should hope for is to have a rapport with the mediator. I think that's critical. Um, if you don't have the report, you're not going to trust. I've totally seen you do that. I've seen you kind of bend over backwards to make a guy feel like you're his Jewish mom or whatever, and you understand them and then a woman say like you a girl power. I got this. I understand what it feels like to be a mom. I absolutely watched audience her do this and she's amazing at it, and I do. I think it's super important that whoever is dealing with you feels you understands you you're not going to get that with a bench officer sitting on the bench, not because they wouldn't like to, they just don't have time. They've got so many cases, so many people, they're not going to get to hear what you have to say. And even if you did have an opportunity to speak, opposing counsel will be jumping up the whole time objecting because most of what you'd say would not be admissible evidence. And so something something to understand. Also, you asked me before about what lawyers could do, and something I think is so important is to have the client's expectations reasonable because some people walk in and they've been told by the attorney, well you can get this, you can get that, and it's just so completely out there. Um, it's the attorney's opinion, which is fine, and you never know what's going to happen in the courtroom. And because of that, UM, I think it's critical that attorneys tell the client what to expect, what to expect from this particular mediator. Um. And and if they have questions to ask the lawyer questions, well tell me more, tell me what's your success rate with this person um, is he or she kind? Is he or she dogmatic? Because people think of retired judges as being very stiff, you know, and and that's definitely not me. But but you know, if that's what they're expecting, and then they're shocked when they see someone like me, or if they're expecting someone who's more like their lawyer, they're shocked if they have someone who's a little more judicial looking or talking. Right, So, Commissioner Robbins, once people have had that opportunity to meet you air their grievances, I mean, we again created it's over easy because we feel like if most people could figure out how to check their emotions and treat their dissolution like a business transaction, they'd save a lot of money. You know, go to therapy, vent to your friends and relatives, etcetera. But then kind of get down to business and if you don't have something that's terribly complicated, figure out online a way to kind of navigate the divorce. Do you believe that that's that's doable? Oh, I absolutely do. And I think it's over easy makes a lot of sense, a lot of sense, um. But at the same time, the family law system is difficult for lay people to understand, and it is emotional. You know, you can you can say, well, this is really a business decision, which it is, but it's an emotional decision. And it's emotional because of what we talked about before, affairs, um, having body work done, Um, someone saying well he or she said I will always take care of you. You know, that just doesn't exist. It may have been said, but it's not going to happen. So yes, getting the emotion out of it would be fabulous, but it's there and that's not something that's going to change. But you know, I really believe that mediation is the answer for most cases. And because of what I said before, the certainty, the emotional peace, and the cost of litigation that that you won't incur. Um. When you talked about rent a judge before, I used to go crazy when people said, well, you're a rent a judge and it's like, I got you know, you don't rent me like you rent an office. It just it just sounded so disrespectful. I hated it anyway, So I was very happy when we all started referring to ourselves as private judges. Um, we don't represent either party, so that's important for people to understand we we are there as neutrals, like Beiji as a neutral color. We are neutrals. We don't advocate um, we don't suggest the law other than to say, you know, if you went to court, you know the likelihood prevailing on this issue is slim and none or you know you have a shot at it, but you have to balance that against what it's going to cost you to get there. So parties have to understand that we we We may like one of them or the other a little better than the other one, but that has no bearing on how we get the case settled in terms of what would happen if one went to court. Give our audience some ideas of things that have changed since you started practicing family law throughout your tenure as a judicial officer, both on the bench and now retired. For example, custody. When you started practicing family law, it was kind of like Dad's got every other weekend and one night during the week. There was no law about that. That was just kind of the trend. Do you believe. I know we're not supposed to use the word presumption, but I'm going to not as a term of art that the presumption now is that parents should share custody fairly equally. I believe that's what's happening, but unfortunately it's happening in some cases where it shouldn't happen. Um. I think that. UM, I think judges really need to be educated with respect to custody and development. But I've heard of too many cases where six month old children who are breastfeeding art are going to one parent of the time, and I just think that's completely inappropriate. So how things have changed dramatically? When I was a new lawyer, Um, a handshake was great. Now now I know, I know now the second the second you hang up the phone on a conference call, you have an email confirming everything that happened. It's just it's bizarre, But that's that's what happens. Technology has advanced us in ways that that that are that are good and that aren't so good. Um. How about female breadwinners? A lot more female breadwinners, which is which is really spectacular, really spectacular, And I was just with one yesterday. So, UM, it's happening more and more often. I love to see it. I think a lot of the glass ceiling has come down. When I was a new lawyer. I was very well protected by my senior partners, so people didn't mess with me, which was unusual because in my era women were not treated very well. That's true, I got the tail end of that, but I've been very, very lucky. Again, I was protected to a certain extent too. But again, it's your generation had it a little bit more difficult than mine, and the generation that comes after me has a lot easier than I do. Ye, Alexa isn't the only one with breaking news. Make sure to hang around at the end of this podcast for the latest breaking headlines on the AP News Minute. This week on Off the Vine, Caitlin Burstow is in studio with her bottle of wine handy to talk to the latest bachelorette, Becca covering Well. And it's so funny because I still feel like my normal self from small time in Minnesota, and some people are like, can we have a photo with you? Us? Like, why would you ever want that? But I should pay you not to take a photo with me, Like you don't want that. Check out Off the Vine every Tuesday and Thursday on podcast one or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. We're here today with the honorable Jill S. Robbins, a private judicial officer who works in family law in California. Unlike public judges, private judges are selected and compensated by the parties, and in my exper adiance, that proves to be an opportunity for both parties that may be absent in some public scenarios because with a private judge, each of them is able to ensure they're comfortable with the judicial officers experience and the relevant area of law. They're able to have a moment to actually discuss what is going on in their case. There's less weight time in courtrooms, there's more personal attention to not only the paperwork that the judicial officer is reading, but to the case itself, and often they take place in a relatively private venue. So in the end, I think that litigants end up saving money that they the money that they pay to the retired judicial officer, they're now not paying for their attorneys to wait around and their experts to be waiting around and sitting in a courtroom. Commissioner Robbins share with our audience what drove you to become a judicial officer and then a private judge, and juxtaposed that journey with your position on whether the family law system has failed the public or evolved to help the public. And I'm going to guess it's a little bit of each. But give us a little background on you and besides just being a problem solve or why it is that you chose this field because it feels good, and seriously, it feels good. When I was an attorney, I enjoyed settling cases. I found it gave me a new sense of being an attorney that you weren't always fighting with people. Um, I became tired of clients calling me with ridiculous questions. Which clients do? I mean, I know that happens, but for me, it just became unbearable because everybody knew how to reach me. And that was before cell phone, and that was before I know, I know. And then and then I was tired of some of the disrespect of attorneys other attorneys each other, okay, not to each other, and and to me. I mean, I think what drove me. But I had a case right before I was appointed, and I was at the lawyer's office and we were sitting down to settle the case, and he was behind his desk reading his mail, and I said, could you please stop reading your mail and he said, no, I need to read my mail. And I said, well, we need to leave, so we did. I left with my client. And one of the first cases I had when I was appointed was this lawyer. So I had to say to myself, can I be fair? Because the guys are just told can I be fair? So actually, lawyer's using words that I would use, but I don't think I'm supposed to do that anyway. So I was fair. But but you know, that kind of stuff just drove me, um to want to be the one to help people problem solve. And then I think, also, um, what got me to the point where I am now is when I first started out, there weren't many cases each day, or I was just in the lawnmotion department, or I was just in the settlement department. And then the caseload increased, the people without attorneys increased because you couldn't afford attorneys, and probably of people who appeared in front of me didn't have lawyers, and they wanted me to be their lawyer and I could meet their lawyer, and they didn't understand that, and it was very frustrating because they didn't know how to present their case, and I really couldn't help them present their case. So I think that kind of drove me off the bench to where I am now and now. And I also know that you're involved with a couple of nonprofit organizations on their boards. You still involved with the Beverly Hills Executive Committee for Family Law Section. So Commissioner Robbins is still giving back folks. Um, I hope to get back, but I wanted to answer your question about the system. I think every effort is now being made to provide better access. We have what we call long cause courts. We have many, many, many many more of them, and I know are supervising judge is making every effort. But you still, unfortunately go into a courtroom which is your quote, regular courtroom, and you can wait all day and then you could come back a day later and you're told, um, we'll see you at three o'clock. So you're paying your attorney to sit there all day and then maybe you get an hour in that day, and maybe a few weeks later you get another couple hours in. But each time the lawyer has to prepare, you have to prepare, and so it's hard if we could fix that UM, it would be great. Do you think I get asked this a lot? I'm curious. You know, do you think that judicial officers sitting on the bench treat propers or people who represent themselves differently than the cases where attorneys are sitting around and billing for their time. I don't know. I've never sat in their courtroom. I mean, I can't answer that, honestly. I mean I'd like to be able to, but I can't. I know, I tried to take my lawyer cases first and have the propers weight because they weren't paying anybody. But I tried to be fair to everybody, right, I mean, it is, it's it's a completely different I will tell you from where I said, nobody's taken lawyers first these days, downtown or in Santa Monica. Um, everybody's on a list and they get called when they get called, and I get the rationale of saying, well, this person is paying for the hour, so I better get them up here and out. That is not what judicial officers are doing. Also, you do have self represented litigants in there asking a lot of questions and really frustrated judges who can't give them legal advice. Legally they're not allowed to do that. It is so scary to be down in court as as a party, as a litigant, and some of them, most of them don't speak English as a first language. I mean, I went to law school and I speak English was my first language, and I'm still scared when I go down there and I'm sitting there watching what goes on. So imagine if it's your life you don't have a total fluent grasp on the English language and you didn't go to law school. It is a really, really scary experience. And I do believe that our bench officers do as best they can, but it is so so crowded and there is so many people waiting to be heard and resolved. I think there and again I know that our supervising judges are doing whatever they can, but funding as short, we're trying to change things. There has to be a better way. I think of educating people about what the what law is in the state that these people live in, and how they can help themselves, at least with portions of what's going on in their divorce. Maybe just the administrative stuff which people are down there just trying to get a status, prove up and they can't even get it because they're waiting around and they don't understand, or they haven't done proper service whatever. It's really really scary and frustrating. And again just the magnitude people say the divorce rate is down, not from where I sit, well, and that's where I think. I think it's over easy. It can help, I mean, truly, truly do all of that. Um, I don't know. I always found a mix of purpose. They were they were American born Caucasian. There were American born Hispanics, there were African Americans. I had a total mix of people, some with English as their first language, some with English as their second language. And I don't I don't think that. I don't think that in and of itself, English as their second language was something that interfered with getting the case done because I at least had paperwork or I had enough information. But I can understand from your perspective, certainly when you're sitting in the courtroom and watching it, how it can become completely frustrating. Yes, Commissioner Robbins, when you were a little girl, what did you imagine you'd be doing when you grew up? Since I'm now growing up, I can tell you are there. I knew i'd be a lawyer, and I knew i'd be a lawyer because I loved watching Perry Mason. And for those of you who are not over fifty, um, you probably don't know who Perry Mason is. Perry Mason was a defense lawyer on television and he won every single case, every single case. So I thought, okay, well, this is great, not understanding the reality of practicing law. Commissioner Jill S. Robbins is a well known family law judicial officer. She sat as a judicial bench officer for ten years and in January she became a private judge and has continued to decide and help mediate family law cases in arbitrations and mediations. She is, as I said before, a badass and a trailblazer and family law. She's also a wife and a mom and a nana who continues to inspire generations of family law practitioners, including me. And we'll talk about that a little bit more in a minute, but tell us a little bit about kind of how you came to where you are and starting out in a field where at the time there were very few women practitioners. I was very lucky to be the first associate in a boutique family law firm. And the only reason I got the job is the person who normally would look at resumes was out of town and so a different partner actually read the resumes, called me, I had an appointment. Blah blah blah. That was my first job. So I started out in family law with attorneys who were doing fairly high level cases. But it also gave me the opportunity to take normal what I call normal cases, smaller cases, so I could I could learn what to do and how to do it. Um, tell us about law, Scholl, go back even further. How many women? So my graduating class I think had about fourteen or fifteen women out of a hundred and sixty. Um. And we were we were picked on, I have to say, not by other students, but by judges. I was in particular professors. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't come till later. Well, I know, I know, I know we're talking about judges. So there I go. No by professors and and I don't know. Every day I was asked a question by somebody. And there was one case I'll never forget this, where um, it was a case about a washing machine, and and it was a defective washing machine, and the part he bought it one and to send it back. And so we read this whole case, and that was one of five for the day. And the judge, the judge, I'm so sorry, the professor. The professor looked at me and said Ms. Robbins, well, you're a woman. You probably know a lot about washing machines, so tell us about the case. So the next day everybody boycotted that class, but men, men, everybody, and everybody, and and and the and the professor's wife heard about it, and she went ballistic. H every time I saw him, because he later became the dean of the school, but every time I saw him, he would go, oh my god, I'm so sorry the washing machine. But I mean, he finally understood it. And then when we had our forty five reunion, just to show you things hadn't changed a whole lot, the photographer said to the seven women who showed up, Okay, we're gonna take a picture now. So men go in the back and women sit in the front row and cross your legs. Of course I sat them back with the guy. But it was just it was just so ridiculous. So you know, some things, as I said, never changed. Did the women that you graduated from law school with are they did they practice? Did they go on to become judges? Do you know? From what I understand, I don't think any of them went on the bench. I don't think any ofthing became judicial officers. I know many of them practice, some of them for nonprofits. UM. A friend of mine set next to somebody from my class um at a wedding A small world, and it turned out she retired a long time ago. So I really don't know. I didn't keep in touch with with any of them. Really, We just all win our separate ways, which is kind of sad. I know that for me, you have always been incredibly supportive. I don't know that it necessarily has anything to do with me being a woman, but you have been somebody that I've always been able to look up to through my career and who has always really really encouraged me to do my thing, you know, whether it's getting pregnant while I was, you know, having trying cases and making court appearances, or buying an expensive car and admitting what brand it was it proudly as opposed to somewhat mortified manner too, when one of the foregoing social not social media, but you know, online web postings would refer to me as the disco queen, and you would say, kind of in the same vein as rent a judge, that's so disrespectful. Why do you let them call you that? One? Am I supposed to say? I don't know any of these people. You have always been incredibly supportive, as I said, not necessarily of females, but of young attorneys practitioners doing things the right way. That's always been something I've really been appreciative of, and the way that you do it as a problem solver, as somebody who's trying to help, as somebody who's trying to make it feel good. I know that as family low attorneys or divorce attorneys, we often get a bad rap because we're helping people get divorced, and we really promote divorced. We want everyone to get divorced, and isn't that great? But that would kind of be like saying that a drug and alcohol counselor is encouraging people to do drugs and alcohol divorces happening. We are the people on the other end trying to lead people through it and get them to a better place in their lives so that they can better comparent their children and organize their affairs and get back into the workforce. And so I wanted to thank you for always being that person and always being somebody who has said an example as a problem solver, a resolution oriented, judicial officer, mediator, neutral, et cetera. Thank you, well, you make it very easy. And as you know, my dad Dennis Watser, who we've worked with together many times, and you worked with before I even probably went to college at the time when you were in law school and he was in law school, which was a little bit ahead of you time wise, because he's much older. Um, you're giving me that luck. It was a male or a dominated field. And now at our firm, as you are aware of, the women far outnumber than men. So there, I do believe family law probably has more women practiced there is now than men. Is that something that you find as well? I absolutely do. And it's it's it's a pleasure, I mean, it really is. It's great. And I see young women, I see older women. It's just it's nice that it's finally happened. I agree for the parents in our audience who might be considering a divorce. What are some things we should know before the marriage is dissolved. Oh, there's so much. First, you should have a really good support system. Um. If you think you might benefit from a therapist, you should see a therapist. Talk to a good friend, although at some point a good friend is going to get tired of listening to you, so you may need somebody else. Um. You should know that you will not see your children every morning and every now if you have children, because there will be some sharing of your children. I can't tell you how, but there's different ways. Um. It could be an equal time share, it could be long weekends, it could be any number of things. But you will not see them, um for a day or two or three or more depending on their age. Will have less money. Um. There are some cases, the very very wealthy, where it really doesn't matter. But but n of the cases you will probably have less money, so your standard of living will go down. You may have to go get a job if you're a man or a woman, because even though you were told or may have been told, you know, stay home and be with the kids. Um. When you go through the process, there just isn't enough money to go around, so you don't have a choice. So either retraining or something so that you will be able to earn money. Um. It's not something you should look at lightly. Um. You should try, I think, to have some kind of marital counseling before you actually make the decision. There's always forgiveness, which is difficult for some people, but it can work and it can make your marriage stronger. Um. And I think I think the best advice I would give you is to be honest and to take responsibility. Um, when you talk to your attorney, if you have an attorney, and if you don't, still to be honest with you the other party, and take responsibility if you've done something that has caused them grief. Now, what if you are the friend or the parent, or the family member of somebody who's going through it? I mean, I again, how do you pick? Particularly if it's a family member. Blood is thicker than water. You're going to support whoever is your family member, but the other person is also going to be in your family forever if they've got kids. How do you be a voice of reason? How do you be a supportive friend while at the same time really really leading whoever your family member, whether it's a son, daughter, a cousin, down a path where you're able to see it from a more reasonable point of view, because it's not happening to you, but it still might hurt your heart, and you want to make sure that they are doing what is best for themselves and perhaps their children. Well, I think you tell them what I just said basically, and you're a little more forceful. Um, you're supportive, but the same time, you're more forceful and explaining to both parties, sitting down with both of them and explaining, you know, look, guys, you know, here's what's happening. You mother or your father will always be part of our family, which is how I would approach it. And um, we will always consider you the mother of the father of our grandson or are granddaughter. But you need to work it out amicably because your child will benefit. Um, it's just the better way to go. And I just would keep emphasizing that. We have a question from Emily, who posted a comment on one of our blog articles on the It's Over Easy Insights blog. Emily wants to know Commissioner Robins as a private judge, what are some of the ways you can help lawyers and their clients better than other judges. Okay, Emily had actually ring ring rings her own bow. Okay, So I don't know that that's me in particular as opposed to private judges, private judges versus um going through the system. So I'm going to take it as private judges in general. So here's the way we can help. Laura has already alluded to some of the ways when you work with a private judge is much more user friendly. Um. I do a lot of stuff informally. Sometimes I do I do motions over the phone. Um. Sometimes I just give a tentative. Um are my tentative thinking on emotion Before they file emotion, they'll tell me what the issue is. I mean, you can never do that in a courtroom. Um. You have the opportunity to choose who you want to mediate or hear your case, and I think that's really important. So the lawyer can blend the personality of the private judge with the client. You don't get to do that. You're just assigned to a courtroom. Um. If you're in the Superior court, you will know that you're pleadings whatever they are. The written paperwork will go directly to the private judge. Often it gets lost in the system. I remember when I was on the bench, people would just bring in extra copies because we knew fifty at the time, the pleading would never make it to the file. Um. And ultimately it's less costly. You're not running to court only to be sent back, only to be told to come back. And um, it's more relaxed. It's not quite as scary um as going into a courtroom. And another one from Melissa uh Commissioner Robbins, do regular people get treated the same as celebrities during a divorce? I certainly hope so, I certainly hope so in your in your cases, no special treatment, no special treatment. And the thing that I find most interesting as celebrities are very deferential. Um, they're very respectful, something that I never really expected. And I've been involved with a lot of celebrity cases and a lot of normal people, and I think celebrities might be a little more respectful. And I'm not sure why, but either way, it's a nice thing. All right. This is one of my favorite parts of the show. I know you know what interrogatories are, but for those of you guys in our audience who don't. They're basically questions that lawyers asked during discovery one party or another, during the phase of litigation where you have to get certain information in order to prepare a case. So on divorce sucks, we'd just like to know these things. These are the four divorce sucks interrogatories. I know you're married to Bob. Tell us how you met. Please. I meant to be differentially, even I'm not a celebrity. I've met Bob for four years ago when we were opposing counsel on a case. And after the case was over, um, we started dating. But the funny thing about Bob was we we met at a mandatory settlement conference with the then supervising judge and family law. Was it Martha No, But it was a woman. It was Nancy Watson. This is this is way, this way. Thank you for reminding me. This was way long ago. And I represented the producer husband who was about sixty, and he represented the wife who was about thirty, and they had a couple of children, and one of the issues was support, child support and spousal support, and so I said, look, you know, she has a PhD. She could go out and get a job. And he responded in front of the woman supervising judge and the woman attorney, well he got her pregnant. And I think he was trying to be funny, but but the two women looked at him and said he got her pregnant, like she had nothing to do with it. But anyway, that's how I met um, and it's been a really nice ride ever since. Sounds like it. Tell us what is your favorite love song? I would say most Beatles songs, because there's so many of them that are love songs, like love Love Me. Now I think it's called let Me Do, Let Me Do, And there's so many of them. I just listened to them all the time. When I ride my bike, you ride your bike on the road or on a like a peloton, never on the road. On the well, I have a tricycle I have. I know I have a tricycle because I used to have a bad back, but now it's been fixed. But I love my tricycle and we ride on the bike path. Santa Monica, got it. I'll keep an eye open because I might run into you. I think we touched on this a little bit. But what would you say to cheer someone up going through a breakup. I would say, it's it's going to be over soon. You will be really really grateful and relieved, especially if you go through mediation. I'm always here for you. But um, just don't bug me too much. Because I had a friend who called me every single day and crying, crying, crying, and her husband want she had the money, and her husband wanted an extra amount of money, and she's I'm not gonna give it to him, not gonna give it to me. I said, well, you know what, it's stop calling me or did you offer to contribute some of the money. Could not stop calling you, I said, don't call me anymore. Either give them the money or don't call me anymore. So, um, she gave him the money, and six years later I had the pleasure of marrying her and her new husband at our home. Finally, what rom com or romantic comedy could you watch over and over again without ever getting tired? It has to be when Harry met Sally, I would be proud, but I would be proud peac of your by. Yeah, so good bye. Thank you so much for being here today, Joel. It was a pleasure and I really do applaud you for what you're doing. And I think the new website is great, truly great. I actually looked at it last night again and it's it's I love the different categories. It gives people so many choices and hopefully it'll it'll help so many who can't afford lawyers. How about the podcast? Do you like the podcast? It's kind of fun. Yeah. Our goal with It's over Easy and the Divorce Sux podcast is really to educate people about family law and change the face of how we look at divorces and separations and splitting up and next chapters. Having you here today, Jill, is such a bonus because I've had the professional pleasure of working with you on prior cases, and now we get to share your wisdom with our listeners, which makes me totally psyched. We'll be back next week with the psychologist perspective on breaking up, and you'll hear more about surviving a breakup, how to get divorced amicably and cost effectively, and probably most importantly, moving on to next chapters. In the meantime, you can find information and insights on our blog and It's over easy dot com. Tap the subscribe button on the podcast and tell all your friends too. You can ask me anything and it's over easy on Instagram and Facebook, or leave a comment on our blog and we'll discuss this season right here on the Divorce Sux Podcast hosted by me, Laura Loser. Thanks and remember it doesn't have to be that way. M hm mm hmmmmmmmm mm hmm

All's Fair with Laura Wasser

Celebrity divorce attorney Laura Wasser has seen it all, and in her 20 plus years practicing Family  
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