Steve Nash | Ep 34 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | #StayHome with SHOWTIME Basketball

Published May 7, 2020, 4:00 PM

All The Smoke is back with another quarantine edition. On episode 34, Matt and Stephen are joined by 2x NBA MVP Steve Nash. The former Suns' point guard ranks MJ, Lebron and Kobe on their greatness and tells stories about playing against them. Nash also dives into his playing days in Phoenix and being traded to the Mavericks.

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From my high school team. We have five guys make the NBA. We head the county Rocket gets some mecca of basketball. Here are those who come before us, upon whose shoulders we stand. It's nothing that you can do to stop the competitive and there's just in the water. Welcome back to a special quarantine edition. We got a real special guys. What's up with your Brodie with the virtual handshake. I'm gonna tell you something that I never told no about it. I want to smoke. Welcome back to a special quarantine edition of all the Smoke. I'm coming to you from l A my brother Jackson, Atlanta. What's up, bro, my brother. Good to see you. Man. How you holding up? I know them boys taying things up over there? Man, if they started looking a little better though, I'm starting to see some bright days out here in the lane of They thinking about opening up things starting Friday. I'm I'm gonna laid back a little bit, but it's good to see that things are things are making progress. See that scares me. I kind of think that's a catch twenty two. Obviously, I want the world to open back up, but I don't know if you're ready for it. And you know, with this administration, it's all about business and money, not really preserving lives. So I'm a little skeptical on the opening up. As much as I want to see the world open back up, I don't really know if we're ready. Yeah, but yeah, know the boys are in here. I was just telling Steve before we got going, the boys aren't here doing an online homework supposedly in the next room, but I keep hearing balls bouncing, then all here fucking one kid throwing on the floor yelling. I'm just like, there's no part of homework that has that kind of ship going on. Basketball at it, right, I guess something, But why do you say that? Because out here, our governor it's saying, let everybody come out, let's get the city backrolling. But out mayor is telling people to stay home. So what we're supposed to think? You know what I'm saying, stay home? Yeah, at least it's sunny though. Sun. Sun brings a lot of hope. Right. But anyway, man, we have an amaze seen guests today. A former teammate of Mind, one of the greatest point guards ever to play, a two thousand eighteen Hall of Fame inductee without further Ado Man. Welcome, Steve Nash, Steve welcome. Thanks for having me. Boys, that was everything. We were talking a little bit offline. You said, you've got five kids in the house. How's that going. I mean, it's it's been, you know, the positive of twin fifteen year old girls and you know teenagers, you know they love to just revert to their phone. So the positive has been like two or three hours a day we'll all hang out as a family, and then there's like that of the day where it's either like I need a drink or I'm gonna jump out a window. It's crazy. So but we're surviving. What are the ages, because I know the youngest is to the youngest nine months no, So so I have the three big kids, Lo Lumbell are fifty in Matteo, Matteo's nine now, they're great, Lucas, Lucas two and a half. And then little baby Ruby's uh what she's about nine nine and a half months now. So I got them all, I got all all ages, shapesses. Thank you. Ruby is a beautiful name. Who I like Ruby, that's a beautiful man. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, my wife chose it, but I like it. Well, let's get going, man. Congratulations again on your Hall of Fame induction in two thousand and eighteen. You know, coming from where you came from, minimal college scholarship offers, to be named to the Hall of Fame, what did that mean to you? It meant a lot. I mean, you know, I was like, I was a kid who had one scholarship offer, you know, Santa Clara that was there, or else I was gonna stay in Canada playing college basketball there. You know, somehow it all worked out and in the end, but for me to be in the Hall of Fame, be recognized for the hard work, to be in the company of all those great players is definitely special, and uh, you know something that uh you know, it's a moment in time that kind of like put up put a bow on the whole thing, right starting out playing when I was thirteen, you know, making my way through high school, college pros and and continuing to push and I think, you know, it's just a nice kind of closure to to what was an amazing experience of being able to play this game that I love for as long as I did. Eighteen years. Man, that's a long long time, you know, getting a chance to play with you that one year, Phoenix. I just saw how serious obviously you kept body prep, maintaining your body, doing everything you possibly could to keep your body in tiptop shape nutritionally physically. Talked to us a little bit about that approach, because I mean, for people who don't know, who haven't ran across you, you're not that big and you were playing to get the giants and doing a great job at it. So talk to us about your your mental physical preparation to to have that just crafty, crafty craft that's another word for white. I was, I was, I was hello white too, but uh I think you know, for me, I was obsessed with the game. Uh I fell in love with it as a as a teenager, played it obviously all the time. Somehow got that one scholarship offer, you know, somehow got myself in the in the draft in first round, and you know, probably most people still thought maybe a backup, you know, career backup, maybe a starter, and just just never took my foot off the gas, just worked and worked and worked every single day, you know, stacked days and weeks and years on top of each other, and just continue to develop. You know, I went. It's it's strange to think now, but I went four years of Santa Claris so, um, you know, came in the league at played eighteen years, retired at forty, and probably had my best years you know, in my thirties. So you know, for me, I was uh, I would say, uh, a late bloomer. I had to catch up physically to the level of the NBA. UM. And then when I was thirty and I reached kind of my peak, it was about maintaining and trying to allow my body to play as long as I could. So I was all was looking for every advantage, whether that be physical training, conditioning, recovery, um, being smart about the way I continue to sharpen my skills and put myself in the best physical condition to perform, but not overdoing it, not underdoing it, funding that right balance. And then you know, I just tried to look for those advantages and sleep and diet, um, you know, physical therapy, whatever it may be, physical stuff, because you know I need it. I mean it comes down to one having a passion to do it, like I had an absolute passion and competitive nature to want to compete, want to be out there, want to play as long as I could. And so when you have that passion, you're willing to make sacrifices. And so I was willing to make sacrifices, willing to learn, um looking into all sorts of different ways that I could recover or perform or whatever it may be. So yeah, I started with a passion and then a curiosity and then just continue to dial it in and unfortunately was able to play through my thirties. Hey, no, nobody, A lot of people don't know Steeve that use my vet. For a couple of weeks, I got for a couple of weeks, you know what by the signs, man, I got drafted by the side, remember I remember. But you know, you know what it feels like way more than a couple of weeks, because were we there like all summer. Yes, we were working out there all summer, so like were we might have only spent like two or three weeks as teammates, but we were, you know, we were worked out all summer together, and man, that was fun. We had had a great time and you know, getting to know you and being too younger guys trying to trying to make a name for ourselves, spending that summer working out with you or something I'll never forget. Hey, but I tell people this all the time, Steve, and I said it on this show before, and it's something that you told me my rookie year. I don't know if you remember this, and it helped me not only today in lighte, but it helped me get through basketball, through my career, and even even when I have such situations that I'm going through, I think about this. You told me, Hey, Jack, whatever you do, don't worry about just keeping it real, also keep it right. You told me that my rookie year, before I even got a chance to set foot in the league. And I remember that to this day, Bro, and I thank you for giving me that game because I held on that all this time, through everything I've been through, I held on that, and I shared that when younger kids coming up to I'm glad I gave you something. You know. The only lasted two weeks, but somehow you came back on. Had a hell of a career, and you meant you mentioned Hello White earlier, but I think you got your black card the one time you were up on stage and Nicki Minaj gave you that lap dance had her cousin. What was that like? Um, I was that was a unique experience. To say the least, I'm gonna say I enjoyed it. Uh. I'm also gonna say sort of sort of, sort of unfulfilling though a little bit of a tea. That's funny. Hey, Also, man, shout out to Legends. You know, we're partners in a in a sports apparel company. I said, you got the nice army green sweatshirt on right now. Shout out Legends Merchandise. Yes, Steve one of the main owners. Um, talk to us a little bit. What is life after basketball been? Like? You shared that you know you have a house, fuld of kids, But what have you been into personally passion? I know you're a huge soccer lover. I know you're huge on the content space. Talk to us a little bit about what retirement has been like for you. Yeah, I mean, you know, first and foremost, retirement is hard, and I don't know how how you guys dealt with it. You know, it took me two years to really be like Okay, I'm good now. And I was lucky because the end of my career was a nightmare, trying to stay healthy, trying to play. When I was here with the Lakers, it was like I trained twice a day for over two years, trying to get myself, give myself a chance to contribute. Um of eventually, you know, I realized it wasn't happening and my body just had too many miles on it. But um, that process I think allowed me like a precursor, like to say, this is gonna be difficult, Like I could feel where this is going, it's gonna be over and then what And you know, those some real soul searching when you're thinking like, Okay, you've put everything you have into this. This is your identity, this is your outlet. Um. You know, the competition, the teammates, all the the schedule, you know that that process, you know, even driving downtown every other night and showing off in front of twenty people like those big, big holes that you know basketball will leave behind. And so when I struggled for those last two years, I think it allowed me to start to you know, recognize that this is going to be difficult. And it took me two years to really get through the other side where I felt whole. But a lot of that was due to the fact that I wasn't like you know, it wasn't a terrible two years, but it was like I could tell, you know, like I'm transitioning still I'm still trying to come to grips with this, like there's something missing, like something's pulling me and I can't fulfill it. And so it took me too years. I got through that. But the one thing that I did do was give myself that time, you know, not trying to rush. UM. I also, you know, always prior to prioritize being a dad, so I spent a lot of time with the kids. Still do try to work all my other projects and things around the kids. For the last wow. So I mean it's already been six years. I think, you know which which has been fulfilling and what I love UM, and then I fit the other things I'm doing. So our content stuff at Control Media, we're you know, we're working on a few things on Pistol Pete film, UM, you know, doing different things in all formats digitalal um film and television, and you know, it's not a huge company at this stage, but we're doing things that we're passionate about and enjoying it and hopefully making great contact. UM I've obviously yeah, I mean obviously I love soccer. I grew up playing soccer my dad my home and dad from the UK. My dad was a soccer player, My brother played soccer. So I love the game. So I got involved with my archive team and Spain UM as an owner and I'm on the board there. So I've been trying to help, you know, just contribute to building that club back up when we got there. We're in the second division. We actually went down to a third division, came back to the second. Now we're actually in the top flight in the in the Liga, playing against Barcelona and Real Madrid. So that's been a really rewarding and exciting experience. That that that I that I put time into, uh and I can selt for the Warriors. So you know, I have a little bit of basketball, a little bit of soccer, a little bit of content, and a lot of a lot of being dad. It's an actual movie about pistol. It's gonna be a movie about Pisto pe dramatic. Yeah, actual dramatic film. So we we um just signed not saying you are, but if anybody can play Pisto Pete, I think you could. We don't want. We don't we don't want broke back, uh, you know, broken down pistol. But hopefully, you know, it's we'll be able to tell a great story about him. You know, I think it's largely a father son's story, you know, I mean, we can go through his career accolades and arc, but you know what what made him the player and also what made him kind of the tortured soul I think was a relationship with his father. Um, so following that as I think an important threat of the film. But we're we're we We signed on a writer, director, Brad Furman, who's um The Infiltrator with Brian Kriston. He's done The Lincoln Lawyer with Matthew McConaughey. So he played college Hoops, Loves Loves Pistol Pete, So he's in a unique position I think to try to hone in on what the story is. And uh, you know, I think as a as a basketball player, you know, someone like Pete who was kind of this you know, he was way out of his time, but he was also a tortured individual. You know, we want to leave a legacy for these guys that many of kids, you know, younger than us. You know, they don't know his story, so it would be great to be able to tell it and familiarize many people are refamiliarized, you know, the majority of people with with his great story. I think he made a great point. You know, we'll get to our next subject. But the history of the game, I think today, more than ever, kids don't understand it, don't appreciate it, rarely respect it. And I think this quarantine situation has kind of changed that somewhat, um with people being able to go back and see old footage and see old games on NBA TV and not just in basketball and all different sports. Um, what are your thoughts on that? Because, like I said, you have kids that are on the internet all the time now and I do too, and it's it's always what have you done for me lately? Type stuff? What are your thoughts on just kind of the lack of understanding with the history of the game from kids today. Yeah, I mean I think it goes hand and hand with social media. Um, you know, and I get it. And I also get that, like if they go back and watch anything like from our primes, you know, it's not even high death, right, I mean, they so like they when they first as soon as they see it. They probably for these ds that have grown up that everything they've ever seen is like Crystal Player. They look at us right and and it just looks different. So right away, there's probably a barrier for them. But you know, I think this is great if they can learn. You know, there is no current generation without the one before and and all the way back to those pioneers who started the game. So, um, you know, it's important to respect everything that everyone's done in the past. You know, I certainly respect this generation of players and think they're amazing and love Washington Play. Um, you know, big fan of the game right now and all the players, so I think, but I think it's a two way street. And I definitely respected those that came before me. And I guess what you guys are getting at is that, you know, maybe we had more reverence for those that came before us when we are coming up and those you know, even when we were just teenagers, we probably heard about the history of the game, gravitated towards it, wanted to know about it, and and had reverence for those players that came before the ones that we were currently watching. Yeah, well, and let's let's let's stick to to that set. The Last Dance, it came out, It came out yesterday. Everybody watched that. Everybody was tould it to Michael Jordan's and the bulls. Um he was in the league already at that time. You had to go up against Mike. Give me uh, let's talk about that. Give me experience too. Uh. You know, for me, he's the greatest player to ever played the game, and he was my hero as a kid, got a chance to play against him, you know, seven I came in the league, you know, and that was you know, the around the time, right it was. I think so I think the Last Dance was so my my second year in the league. Um, so I got to I got to. I mean, you guys, remember what it was. We didn't have so much access back then to every single thing on Instagram or YouTube, let alone watching games life. So you know it was mj was must see TV. Like any time he was on TV, like it was musty um. And yeah, I mean he exactly. He just had this career isma on top of all the gifts and skills and mentally you know how great he is. I mean, playing against him the one thing that I think that he was unlike any other player I've ever played against, is that there was a real fear playing against him, Like like people I've never seen like the league be kind of fearful of a player or have that much reference for a player, no matter who you who you know has come since then, you know that was a different feeling when you're playing Mike because you just knew, you know, like there was there was such a seriousness, competitiveness and fire in him, and you know there was a fear with how that was going to manifest itself potentially on any given nights. So he was he was. I mean, where do you want to start and where do you want to finish? With him? He was? He was everything I think we take because of social media stuff. For granted, you know, I mean, we're Lebron is one of you know, our heroes now and he gives constant access and you see guy us from other sports give content access. But like you were saying, that wasn't the case back then, you know what I mean, Like there was no behind the scenes, There was no going in the bulls locker room. You didn't see the bulls shoot around, you didn't see him j off the court and he is our one hero that we didn't really get to see that from you know, we got rest in Peace code started showing that um post career, Lebron has been amazing from the jump. But for us as as former players and Mike being someone we idolized, obviously Mike and Pip in the bullets, so we idolize it's special for us because we kind of always wanted to know, like what was it like behind the scenes, because we know what it's really like behind the scenes, So what was it like behind the scenes for them? You know? So I think it's it's amazing. That's a great point. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but watching the first two episodes, didn't it just take you back to being a kid almost like what it felt like to watch him like like it like you just it's amazing how the Polly had over us. And you're right, like we didn't get that access, like he didn't get you know, like you said, all that stuff that current players have just grown up providing. You know, they've grown up with phones and cameras and social media that there was none of that, you know, so you know, to to go watch. It is like putting us our generation back to our teenage or young years a kid, and and and getting to see those things that you never got to see. Um. You know, we hear the stories, but to actually see some footage coupled with some stories is incredible. Yeah, I think one good thing. Like I said, obviously, there's nothing good that came from the loss of Kobe, but I think at the his memorial, you know, the way MJ stepped up. You know, we hadn't seen vulnerable Mike before, We hadn't seen Mike open up for the speech he game was tremendous. Him helping Vanessa down the stairs was timely. And I want to say, and I kind of feel like, and I hope I'm right that maybe seeing what Kobe was on and what he was doing, and how he was mentoring, helping opening up more, I'm hoping that that kind of struck a match in Mike's in Mike's mind, because I think he has been you know, what, what would do process? I mean, the greatest ever, you know what I mean. So I'm sure a lot of ship comes with that. I couldn't even speak to what comes with that, but I just think him opening up more, um is as as a fan, you know, as a grown man. That's what I want to see now, you know what I mean. And I think with this that with this last dance, I hope that we start to get to see more of a Mike because he's been the one superstar for a lot of people that we just never really got to know off the court. Yeah, I I completely agree. You know, it's um you know, it's it's when I got to play with Kobe for you know, uh few, you know, we didn't get to we both got hurt. But having to share in the locker room with him at the end of our career, it was an eye opener in a sense because you forget, we got drafted together, we played against each other our whole careers. You know, you I thought of him as a competitor. I thought him as as the competition, you know, predominantly. So when I came to the Lakers and you could see the like the worship that young players had for him, you know, it was an eye opener because I never had that perspective of him. But that's exactly how I was with Jordan's if you know what I mean, Like when I came in the league. So I've been there. You know, I've been there. I'd done what they were doing to Kobe. How exciting it was to play with Kobe. I I'd done having the chance to play against Jordan's you know. Um. And and so to get more from from Mike. He doesn't owe anybody anything but to get more of him, for him to, you know, to make the speech at Kobe's service, for him to do the film, for him to you know, just be a little bit more opening. He's probably, like you said, relaxed. Uh, you know, it's amazing for us. Um, you know, it's it's a different time, right, like this might be it. We may not get anything else out of him, but that's why this is so special and we just gotta like, we just got to enjoy it. What are your thoughts on the Hall of Fame class? We were just speaking on Kobe briefly, Uh, adding KG and Tim Duncan to that summer saying that's arguably the greatest Hall of Fame class ever to be inducted. What are your thoughts on that? Hard to be that that trio, Um, you know, honesus incredible, happy for all those guys, obviously. Uh, you know, it's it's important for everyone to see Kobe go in and kind of have that moment um to recognize what he brought to the game, what he meant to the game. I mean, you know, he was a great player, obviously, but he touched a nerve with people around the world, and I think we saw that when he passed. Um. You know, it was incredible how just his name as presidents meant so much as so many people in so many places that maybe you wouldn't expect it to be so strong. UM, So I think, you know, I mean, look, those guys are all incredible, incredible all time grades. Um, but it is also special. I think too that they that they can go in with Kobe, Kobe can go in with them, um and be recognized just for the impact as much as as the accolades. You know, it's it's something I think we all need to see. So it's it's it's an incredible class and hopefully we get to do it right, especially in this crazy time where it's not gonna probably be your your you know, your normal scenario. Hopefully we get some time to things can get back to normal and we can honor that class. The way they deserve to be honored. Very true. Taking it back to your early days. Born in South Africa, moved to Canada at a young age, came from a predominantly soccer family, didn't start basketball to a twelve or third team. What do you remember when you you know where did that spark for basketball and wanted you to pick up your first basketball start? Yeah, I mean there's two things. Barely one was social. I went to where I grew up in Canada. Junior high was grades eight, nine, ten. High school is a grade eleven and twelve, So I went to the eighth grade. Um had played a little bit of basketball, and all the kind of jocks at my new school all played basketball. They're all basketball players. That was the number one sports. So I quickly wanted to be with guys that were playing whatever you're playing. I wanted to be on the playground plane. And so all these guys were playing basketball, and we became, you know, best friends, played back. You know, I'm just got totally obsessed with the game. And it was exactly the like it was right around the time that the Air Jordan once came out and and Mike kind of burst onto the scene and was like it was just like you know, he was like a whole language and to himself just watching him, you know, like it it was just such an elevated performance. Um. And it was right around the time that the you know, the air Jordan's came out and he was doing commercials with Spike Lee. So it was super like cool time to get to get into basketball. I mean, now we have so much media around the game. Back then, like a commercial was like, you know, seeing an incredible like commercial with personalities like Mike and Spike. You know that it was like going to the movie theater almost like if you were lucky to catch the commercial, you know, like you'd take you'd take teames and you would rewind to watch the commercial ten times, you know. Um, So that that that was definitely something that that got me into the got me excited about the game. But really it was social. I was still playing soccer and hockey and baseball and all these sports. But you know, and I saw eighth grade thirteen, these guys playing all the time, loving the game. I have friends to play with before school, lunchtime, after school, and um, I just took it from there and never stopped and just got more and more sucked in and obsessed with the game. And UH, and I love playing it, you know, played it a long long time. Senior year, you put up some numbers nearly twenty one points, eleven assists, nine rebounds. Who are you still in rebounds from? Uh? Lead your team to the championship and was named player of the Year. What was the competitive nature of high school high school basketball in UM Canada back then? Yeah, well it was, well, I think our year, our class was a good year. There was some good teams, good players, like you know, guys that could play, like a lot of guys that could play some level of college basketball. But it was you know, it wasn't you know where I grew up. It wasn't always like the most as far as the highest level, UM, but there was always good players. There was always a good culture. There was always a lot of interest around high school basketball. UM. It was probably the most popular high school sport by far, because you know, soccer, hockey, all those sports were playing at the club level. So for high school super it was it was it was fun, exciting. The provincial championships up there men a lot um you know, I was, I was lucky, I had I had an incredible coach, you know, he was he played college basketball in Canada, was you know, really as good at mine for the game as anyone I've ever played for. Uh, he was. He was extremely prepared in detailed so I got a glimpse of what I was going to see from college and pro coaches in high school. A sense where like little things, little details at both ends of the floor, whether it's individually with your footwork or whether it's collectively with rotations or timing and all those things. So, you know, I got to play for an incredible coach, um, and I've unfortunate that respect. I got to play for a lot of great coaches. But that I think, you know, gave me an education that allowed me to continue to adapt while I was still physically kind of growing into you know, my best level where I could compete because I wasn't like a lot you know, I never was a live wire, but I wasn't like this kid who going right away, Oh yeah, I could see him playing in the league. You know, I think people were like, right, too slow, too short, too weak. So I had to get myself up to like an acceptable level in all those categories. But in the meantime. You know, I had a good skill level, and I had a good understanding and education of how to to play the game, and so that allowed me, I think I need it at all, Like I I didn't, you know, I didn't have the you know, the fortune to say, well, just out you know, out athlete, people jump over people, be faster than people. You know, I had to I had to like shoot it well enough, playmate, be smart, be a great teammate, and know the game and and somehow I just kept like finding a way to get to the next level. And that that all started in high school with my high school coach. You forgot craftiness, crafty Blanco, go ahead. You kind of talked about it earlier, but being recruited by one school, you know, going to going to Santa Clair. Tell me some members about Santa Clair and being accrued about one school. Yeah, I mean for me, it was like it was exciting just to have a scholarship offer. You know, Um, that was like my ticket. You know, I wanted to play in the NBA. Uh And I know at the time it probably seemed improbable, but I could kind of see a clear path. I could see that, you know, my skill level could get there, and if I could athletically catch up a little bit. Um, you know, with my work ethic, I knew that I would put the time in and if I was improving at this rate, you know, in in two years, four years, six years, there's no reason why I couldn't kind of rate, you know, rain some of these other players in. And and that's kind of the way I went around about it. And Um, Santa Clara was, you know, an incredible squad, a great coach again, really tough, which you know, he was hard on me, especially when I first got there, and I'll say it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. I mean, you know, I I mean he had me thinking about quitting, you know, and that going through that experience like made everything after that. You know, it's easy to overcome adversity. And and so I thank him. He gave me mental toughness, as you guys know, like great players in the NBA all have mental toughness, the ability to overcome and to face obstacles and challenges. And that's that's more than anything. That's what I got at Santa Clara. And now the experience was great too, great teammates still friends with a lot of with all my teammates, um, and so it was a special experience in that respect. But as a basketball player I learned a lot from the coach and Prime Prime early. I learned mental toughness and ability to just not give in, not fall, not you know, take your foot off the gas, no matter how dark it got. Some days you led them to the tournament, Um, the n C Double a tournament. But during the height of your college career, who were some of the guys possibly in the pros or other college guys that you emulated or studied or or try to you know, take a little bit of their game and added to yours. Yeah, so I grew. I mean my hero growing up was Isaiah Thomas from as far as who I wanted to emulate. Um, you know, he had, he had everything, but he wasn't jumping over people. So I was like, Okay, there's somebody that I can try to emulate. Like he was quick, um, but like other than that, he used his skill level, his creativity, his competitive nature, like the fight in him was incredible, um lutch. He was a dog. And so those are things that I was like, Okay, I can try to emulate that. You know, MJ was my hero. There's there's nothing other than maybe his footwork I was going to emulate from, you know, MJ. So so Isaiah was the guy that I really tried to emulate. Um, you know, my my freshman year of college. J Kid was a freshman too, so you know, he came out after a sophomore year. We played against each other in college, both in the Bay Area. So I always, you know, strive to learn from him and also try to, you know, put myself and get to that level one day. Um so that you know. But I was the type of guy that I would try to take something from everybody. You know. I would try to watch, you know, somebody do something and and see how that could translate to my game and how could I incorporate that, and and it might come from the strangest places, but I was always watching, always always learning from guys, watching them play, always trying to incorporate what they did on the floor, and and make myself grow and put more tools in my toolbox that I could solve more problems so I could be a bigger contributor to my team and just continue to push the button there between your junior seening year you played on the Canadian national team. You had a cat's work out with Gary Payton and Jason Kid. What was that like and what did they teach you? Yeah? Uh, you know I worked out with with Gary and Brian Shaw in Gary's backyard with Gurg. But he said, in the backyard, so that's back in the day. That's like you last on the outside of the on the submit court. The who I love it. I mean Greg putting us through drills out there. Um, I mean Gary must have already been an All star. Brian you know, played a long time in the league. Playing one on one doing drills with Gurg. It was like it was incredible. You know those guys Jason too, like they worked out at other times together and you know they they were supportive, you know, which is important. But you could also see the competitive nature of the fire the like once you step on the court, everything meant something. You know, like there was no like I'll give him this one. You know, it was like funk that and so yeah exactly so so um I love that. I love like trying to trying to creep up to compete with them, um and to get that access, you know, nowadays, I think I feel like there's so much access, whether it's you know, high school player getting to meet pros, getting to know everything they've ever done, um in the gym, Like well, you know, back then, there wasn't that same access because the social media YouTube, Instagram, you didn't really know what guys did right or what they were like so um, and it's changed in a sense like now and nowadays, everyone really drills drills, drill skill development. You know, back then there was a lot more like one on one like pickup basketball, like competing, like learning through I'm gonna play one on Yeah, we're gonna play one on one, and if you beat me, I have to figure out a way to beat you. Like what is it is? The angles? I take the footwork? How do I create space? Like you learned it by trial and error and by necessity in a sense, whereas nowadays it's like the books have all been written in a sense, like you know, there's so many people out there just teaching the game. But there's which is great, but there's something lost in that, like really like competing, and I think that you know, you can do all the drills in the world. Um, you can learn all the footwork and everything, which is important, but um, there's something built on battling, you know, and playing and losing and winning and picking yourself up and like you know, nowadays, it's just it's a different generation. I don't want to make this a slight because it's nobody's fault, um, but sometimes you know, there isn't enough of that, like where guys are like you know, in the gym, I'm gonna put myself on the line against this guy. Now it's like, well there's phones everywhere, Like I'm not sure I want to like play one on one with so and so and have it be on the ground the Graham in five minutes. Um. So it's a different it's a different it's I mean, that's just one small Anectope. It's a different time. But I learned a lot from from Gary Jason, and uh it just felt good to kind of in a set find feel a little acceptance because I was one scholarship kid in a mid major trying to make a name for himself. And uh, it was great experience. And I think you hit on it too. I think obviously now that because this is no slight to knock everyone is too. But that the talent and skill level athleticism is incredible right now, but I kind of think that some of them lack the the i Q and some heart when it comes to actually, like you said, going one on one outside, it was a war. There was no buddy buddy, There was no cell phones. There was no pictures that would we would fight like there used to be some real ship that would help you get and stuff that we would take from our teenage years to the NBA. And I think you, like I said, there's no knock. It's just a different generation. But obviously times were different with that. When did you feel like, Okay, I'm gonna be a pro? What what You're in college and high school? Like, when did it really click to in your mind like Okay, I could do this ship for a real living. That's a good question, I think, you know, being and like an underdog, I always had that underdog mentality. So I never really like counted my chickens, you know. So I had a great junior year. There was some talk about should I leave, you know, it wasn't It was much less common in those days, especially for you know, a Canadian kid at a mid major like well we have you know, like we need to see more of him kind of things. So I stayed. But I think like I started to realize. I think I played in the World Championships after my sophomore year and had and started for Canada. I must have been years old and had a good tournament. There was a lot of NBA scouts there, and then that kind of started the buzz to where I was like, Okay, this really could happen. And then had a good junior year, thought about coming out, didn't and then had maybe not quite as good as senior year, just you know, dynamics of the team, were facing a lot of attention from the other teams, but still had a great year. Went in the first round. Somewhere between like the summer after my sophomore year, UM and and being drafted. You know that it was building, you know, I was building it. But again when I got to the league and when I was the first round pick, you have a three year guaranteed, like there's some security there. I still came in the league as an underdog, like I have to prove myself every day, Like there's no like, there's no I've made it, you know, there's no like um, you know, I belong. I mean, there was no entitlement. It was like I I felt like I had the appropriate fear that I have to prove this every day where I could be out, you know, I could be out. So it's just it's just different, you know, at different times, you know, and you know, like back then, you're a rookie, you got treated like a rookie. You know, you got treated by a teammate, and they just made a big trade though, Big Dyce, McLeod all them. It just came back right when you got there at some point I can't remember they were there. Uh yeah, I think that was right. You're right my rookie year, right, because that was the reason why they had one draft pick with me the next year, because they made those trades to get those guys right, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it was and it was yeah going now. And to keep it realized, like to touch on what you're saying, a spade is a spade. You're a small, little white dude playing against g P J Kid all these guards like we're not gonna you know, we're gonna bust this white dude's ass. And that's how I mean that talk is still prevalent until today. So I can only imagine back then, like you know, you're coming from a mid major trying to make your name, but you're nice. But like you know, I could only pitch are GP saying I'm not gonna let this white dude bust my ass, you know what I mean. Every every single night you were going to war with solidified Hall of Fame point guards. You know, back then it wasn't so much about social media and all that, but you didn't want your friends back home to know that this little white boy just turns you off, right, So there was a little extray sometimes, but you know that makes you, That makes you tougher, right, it makes you more consolutely I'm saying that's part of that grind, makes you, you know, just thicker skin and and to be able to survive, because it is it's a in the NBA like there's you know, a big part of his just survival, right like, because if you're if you're not if you're not ready to play, you can get embarrassed. If you get embarrassed too many times, you're gone, right, Um, So you know, maybe it is a little different now. The players, now, you're right, they're so athletics so they're but they're a little more specialists, you know. They Um made a sense. It's just a differently grow up with differently and they're amazing. I love it. But it was a different time and you you definitely just had to you had to really earn your stripes with your teammates, you know, the referees around the league. Uh, you do today, you do today. This is not like I love this generation, So this is doesn't just giving you a picture of both um. But back then, it was like, I mean I remember after every practice, like a C. Green was one of my vets and he just like kick every ball all over the gym, the stadium wherever we were, and were like go go get them rook and you know all that type of stuff. So it's just a different era and uh, and I loved it. I was. It was great to look back on all those memories, especially now that that's a bygone era. It's crazy, man, Like I don't feel old, but like it's a bygone era. You know. We had we had John Morant on last week and he was talking to us about music and he called jay Z old school and me and Jack kind of looked at himself like fuck yeah, I mean he is you know what I mean, These kids are these kids are one years old, like he's old school, and it's just like, damn, that went by fast. You know. We speak to like we used to come in and there used to be a pecking order no matter how good you were, because there was vets, you know what I mean. So to be talented, lottery pick whatever, to crack that lineup, it was different. We don't, no matter how good you were, someone on your team or that was gonna have a problem with you trying to crack that lineup. But it also, like you said, it made us tougher, made us stronger. And then you had those vests that would put your arm around you and and and school you, you know what I mean, keep you from making the same mistakes. And I really don't see that anymore from a standpoint of just the league is so young, so your your your VET is a couple of years older than you now, which is crazy. Yeah, I mean the way the salary cap is to you know, like a vet minimum for a guy who's played twelve years over a talented um, you know, explosive kid that you want to take a chance on, financially, like you know, it's it's much more manageable with the cap and all that stuff. So the model doesn't really support you know, vets in that respect anymore. Um, you know, there's there's there's very few like Jared Dudley's around anymore, whereas like there was there was a there was two or three on every team when I came into every team. You know, Um, you know, the vets kind of yeah, the model and it was the model of the salary capital, all that stuff supported that, and now it doesn't. It's not not for better for worse. You know, I think it's a shame that we don't have room for both. But um, you know, that was definitely a benefit in respect of having vets that could show you the ropes, that could you know, teach you, share with you, keep you in line, and that was you know that that's gotta be a little bit more difficult for young players today because every team has got like four or five year olds. The draft legendary Alan Iverson went one, Canby went to Sharif abdul Rahim three, Marbury four, Ray Allen five, Antoine Walker six, Carrie Kittle's eight, Kobe thirteen pages fourteen, you land fifteen. What do you remember about that draft? And got I mean how talented that class was. I mean it was one of the best times in my life, you know, actually getting drafted and kind of like like I talked about the Hall of Fame putting a bow on it. Uh, it's like the draft kind of justified all the hours, you know, like getting drafted in the first round. Like really, you know, it's the reward. Was that moment of like, okay, all that time, all that energy and hustle and all the tough days, the days you didn't want to do it, you know, this is the reward. And so it was a special, special time. And then you know, at the time, m I knew it was a talented draft for sure, but you don't know in context like where everyone's gonna go on, what kind of careers are gonna havena happen. You have no idea, so like there was no way you could have predicted it, but um, but you but I knew there was a lot of personalities, there was a lot of talent and uh, and looking back, it's it's incredible to see the careers that so many of my classmates had first time around in Phoenix. Who who were some of your bets. Yeah, my vets were like Rex Chapman, Danny Manny, Yeah yeah, sat next to Rex on the plane. Hilarious. Uh, taught me a lot, still friends to this day. Danny Manny was a great, fat, unbelievable player, like and he'd already done as a c L. Back then, it wasn't as it wasn't like a c L s now where you come back because Danny was like a six ten point forward. It was really quick. He lost a little much game. He has no and when he tore his a c L like today, you come back fully, maybe even better. Sometimes it wasn't it wasn't like that, and so you know, he lost a little bit of quickness and I think a lot of like mobility durability in that knee. But he could play so smart six ten, could post, could point play the point, could pass, red react cut, you know. So I learned a lot from those vets. Kevin Johnson, hot Rod, you know, hot Rod, Williams Rest in peace, Wayamon Tisdale rest in peace. You know guys that were just you know, good pros, uh supportive. Taught me a lot, and so you know, I was. I was fortunate. You know, I came in behind Kevin. We traded for Jason, kids like Jason and Kevin, so I also got to play behind two great, great point guards. Um and and I learned a tremendous amount from those guys. Donnie Nelson was in the office in Phoenix. He moved to Dallas and they trade for you the season. What was that light going over there? And and and with with the young Dirk and Mark Cuban as an owner. Yeah, I mean at first I want I didn't want to, you know, go. I love Phoenix, you know, Uh, Jack will tell you it's great down there. You know, Phoenix beautiful. Yeah, it was in a great city. The organization, Jerry was unbelievable. Um, you know, it just felt great. It felt like home. And my second year with Jason and Kevin, I still got like twenty plus it's a game. Danny Ainge was crazy enough to play all three of us together, and and that was That was a great moment in my career. Playing with Jason and Kevin and still being able to push myself in a twenty two minutes a game or whatever. My second year was a great accomplishment for me. And was proving that I was continuing on the right path. So then for it to be kind of over and in respect um after that season was disappointing. But uh, Dallas one of the worst teams in the league. I got traded there on draft Day when Dirk got drafted by the Maths, and we played in the old Reunion Arena, and you know, it just it wasn't in the same place that that Phoenix was at the time, so it was it was in a sense, it was like step down. And then we had the lockout that year. I remember I was playing a pickup game like a week before training camp, and I got knocked out of the air going to the basket and landed on my back. And I struggled the whole year, and that's when I realized I had back problems that season. You know that I that I congenital and had a long time, But that's when I really that they've presented themselves and became a problem. So I struggled the first lockout year, struggled a little bit the second year, and then you know, DRK and I think turned a corner Mark Cuban about the team, and the Mavericks became one of the places to be, so to speak. So got ourselves to the conference finals. Jack, you and that team were you, uh San Antonio Dallas Conference finals lost? Yeah. Um remember Stevie Kerr came in and hit like four or five threes in the fourth quarter of the clincher. Um. Anyways, So playing from Mark was incredible. Um. You know it wasn't all you know, like market could you know in some ways get under your skin at times. But he was such a pioneering person for the game, like pushing the envelope on everything, the rules, you know, the way we went about things, referee marketing, like so many ways. He tried to everything that that that we did in the league, and so it was incredible to watch him. He's a kind of a force of nature in that respect, and so to be there from the start with him was it was exciting and that was a very influential time in my career. I don't have the team and scoring that game by the way, Oh would you drive? How many had Okay in the clinching game game six? Yeah, I think people forget I was just saying, I think people forget Jack. You would like the second you're like the second best player on the team. People forget like I don't talk. I don't talk much. But see when we have guests like the m VPS like you, and Hall of Fame is like you, that's all I need. I don't talk much because people I got, I got over shadowed by the four three Steve here, but if they look at quarters one, two and three, I had Tim on lock. Tim couldn't get a bucket and I had to say this, man Gino, actually man g nobally say this. Yeah, I mean, you guys obviously had a great team and a stuff, but I think sometimes you're a little run There might be a little underappreciate it. We recognize that. Take us back a little bit to to the development, uh developing a friendship with Dirk and his growth and when you guys kind of felt like you guys were clicking in your chemistry started hitting and you like, holy shit, this motherfucker's gonna be a problem. Yeah, I mean you can see right away. We I mean, first of all, he said you can see right away. I mean you can see the kid was talented. I mean just the way the ball left his hand and the way it fell through the who right like hecause a seven. Guy shoots the ball way up in the air and it comes down. It comes from down in the it comes down like not a swish, like a swish on the bottom of the net, you know what I mean, like it touches the net. You know, you're like this this there's some I don't know, there's something going on here with this kid. And he was people I think, especially like nowadays in social media, you think you see Dirk is like this guy with his ankles basically locked, can't move. But he was super mobile. Back in the day. He wasn't explosive, but he was mobile, you know, seven feet he could really move, put the ball down on the floor, spin, run the court, you know, catching and make plays off the dribble. You know. So you could see he had all these things athleticism in that way. Um, when we came in though, I mean we were one of the worst teams in the league. He was Dirk was really going through a lot of culture shock, like he was playing second division in Germany or maybe maybe they just got to the first division, you know which back then especially was a far cry from the league. He's nineteen years old. You know, he was a mama's boy. And here we are in Dallas. Um, I'm struggling, he's struggling. And so the good news was that we came in the same day together. He isn't even gonna come and play that lockout year. We convinced him to come back and play. So we kind of in a sense, had each other to lean on to, to push each other, to play one on one horse, to go back to the gym at night, to keep fighting, keep pushing each other while we struggles while people were down on us. You know, there was a time people probably thought both of us were going to be out of the league in those first two years. Um, but we kept working and I went through some injury stuff and he went through kind of that adaptation to living abroad and playing in the league. But I think having each other was huge because we pushed each other. We you know, continue to encourage each other, could see there was a path for us if we continue to work at it. And so, you know, we stuck with it. And we went from one of the worst teams in the league and barely contributing to the conference finals and and and playing in All Star Games. And that was a very influential time in my career two thousand two, you guys beat UM Minnesota in three games and then end up falling to Sacramento. I mean, KG is one of my ever players and FAY players to play against. The passion energy, you know, NonStop talking. Uh, couldn't shut up. But I love that. I love I love the personality and and and more than anything, I really respect because I know what he put in. I know much time and effort, and how professionally was he worked really hard. He was incredibly professional, great teammate, UM, so he did it the right way, and so it was it always a pleasure to play against him and during my career and then to play as that sacramental team, those Rick Adelman teams, UM, you know, I mean, you know, good guards are great guards obviously Mike Bibby, Doug Christie, UM, but they're big. That had been Paige obviously was maybe their best player at their different times during that run. But you know, the passing of Vladi and Sea Webb was unbelievable for two people guys, you know, and it allowed them to play the game in a way that was so rare and so difficult to defend. That ball just moved and and guys with you know, they space the floor and make you pay with back cuts or threes and and it was beautiful. And you know, that year we lost to them in the playoffs, I really felt like Doug Christie and Adelman had a big impact. You know, whenever we were doing our two man game on one elbow or on one wing, you know, they bring Christie over to the middle of the paint um. You know, he would kind of he would actually come all the way to the strong side block. It wasn't no three seconds seconds you had to well you yeah, but you also you had to either come or stay. And so he would come all the way instead of and take and so you don't have to throw out to the corner. And they would either rotate, stunt and get back and but inevitably the ball was gone. I was out of my hands, you know. So it was either played two on three versus Doug Christie is the their man, or throw it to the weak side. And I remember that really hurt us in that series. But that's those teams were fun to watch, fun to play against. Sacramento was an incredible place to play building. I felt like it was alling down, but the energy in there was incredible, a two thousand three sixty win season. Beat Portland's seven, beat Sacramento and seven. And then this is where my bad I misspoke early. You ran into the Spurs in the Western Conference finals where my co host had a big game. Six. Talked to us about because that was that was your last run in Dallas. Talked to us about that. Yeah, actually that was the second That was my second last year in Dallas. Um. Yeah, we got to the conference finals. I think they beat us four too, and actually we won a game without Dirk. Dirk like twisted his knees saying he was hurt and he missed two games. One of them we won I think, to make it three too in San Antonio. In San Antonio, Yeah, we beat them at their place without Dirk to go to bring it back to two three. Then we went to Dallas and that was the Steve Kerr game where he had those four threes in the fourth corner jack in the big game. Um, you know that was those That was a tough team and and I don't know that we were ready, but it made us try to our our franchise, try to take steps to get over the hump. And so we signed Antoine Walker and Antoine Jamison the next that summer. Um, and and it kind of it's it was, it was, you know, they were that it was ballsy. They tried something, but really you got you got ants both Antwine's and Dirk playing the same position. They're all kind of like mobile fours, and so it uh, it just didn't work. Um, it was difficult. Um. And that was I think that I had. You know, I was always a pass for us guy, and so I tried to make this thing work. So I first part of the season, half of the season, my numbers were really down. But the second half of the season, I think I shot over and played well. Um. But I think it was like a sign to Mark Human that like maybe he thought, like this is I was coming to the end because I didn't quite have the full year that I had had prior so that that summer, you know, he didn't he really didn't make a big effort to keep me. I think he thought he didn't want to overpay. I think he'd overpaid a few guys. Didn't want to overpay an hating point guard. Um. And that's you know, that's how I ended up in Phoenix. Really was is that he wasn't you know, I don't think he was confident in my future at that point. Um talked to us a little bit about that second time around, because you guys had a fucking squad and Maori Shawn Mary and Joe Johnson q rich that small ball Uh was so fun to watch and play against the answered in two to talk about that, Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, Like it was a fun obviously a fun team team. I think they kind of took the league by storm. You know, we were absolutely you know, I think the year before we're at we're one of the you know, maybe one six games. So coming into that year training camp, people thought like, this isn't a playoff team. This is a team that you know, might win thirty something games. Um. So we came out of the gates I think like thirty one in five. Um. You know, basically you know, just running people out of the building and we're playing a style and a pace that was you know, it was rare, and I think it was exciting for the fans. It was fun to play that style, but also we were punishing people and so um. But it was a young team. You know, a lot of guys who had never played in the playoffs, got to the you know, I got to the conference finals. It got to actually play Dallas, my former team, which was which was difficult, but beat them in the in the semifinals, then played the Spurs again in the in the finals, lost four one. That was a series that Joe Johnson missed. Um. He played I think the last game, the clincher that we lost. UM. So that was tough. It was, you know, they were they were a terrific team. They they had a lot of experience as well, championship pedigree and all that. But you know, it was tough. We were already a team that didn't play a deep bench at all, and so to lose a players talented as you know, as Joe was, and especially he was coming on, you know, he was getting better as the season went on and was pivotal kind of big guard who could make plays, be the backup. People don't realize how good he was. Joe Johnson was so because he was just so mild mannered and quiet, but so talented. Just so much game, you know, so much game. And he was like six pounds um and and athletic when he wanted to be so um, you know, to lose him was tough. To lose him to Atlanta that summer was even tougher. Uh, But those years in Phoenix were incredible. UM gave me, you know, some of the best memories of my career. We we played an incredible playoff series. We never got over the hump, but I think we played in three or four Western Conference finals in an an incredibly difficult Western Conference at the time. So um, you know, we didn't make the finals, but you know, those were years where the team that came out of the East we were beating by thirty twice, you know. You know, so we didn't get to the finals, but we we also were finals caliber team that just played in the Western Conference where you have to get through you know, big teams touched you touched on it tough because the West was definitely dominant back then. But for you to win back to back m vps UM during that that that run in Phoenix was historical, was amazing. But it caught a lot of people by surprise. Talk to us about that. Yeah, I mean I think it was you know, I went from UH an All Star player to UH to an m v P and and you know, I'll never put myself in a category of Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant. But I think those teams were special. I think our team we lead the the league in scoring. Well, I think every year I was there, and so I think there was you know, and I think also we we forget and Tom I want no no that have to defend myself, but it's like you're forgetting time that you know, although like I average, you know, somewhere between fifteen and eighteen points in those years, you know, you know, I would close games and score the north quarter a lot more and when when it was needed. But I still came from the school of being a pass first point guard. So I was never like I gotta go out and get twenty fives. And I was always like, I want our team to flourish. I want guys to feel good and get easy pockets, and I'll step up when I have to. And so those were special years where I think I took a jump as a player and became more of a threat in every way. But I also got to play with the team that fit really well, maybe needed someone to create for them, and then they could finish, uh and they could finish with the best of them so it was a perfect fit in a lot of ways that it highlighted my game, highlighted their game, and I think collectively we were very difficult to control. Talk to me a little bit about playing with a Mariti Stadtermeyer who who was a killer, and then Shawn Marrying and too. I mean, those are two guys that you could put the ball anywhere. They go, get rebound, lay defense, played hard. What was that like playing with both those guys? It was awesome. I mean, you know, especially for someone who loves to to find his teammates, you know, they're both are incredib ball athletes. A Marii first of all, incredible feat for a big guy like really could could move, change directions, and he had big hands and great hands and so you know once once he got a piece of that ball, he could suck it in and you know, I was I could finish with the best of him one ft two ft um. He was incredible as a pick and roll partner of transition. Sean was you know, Sean was an incredible athlete. Like his quickness, speed from end to end, his quickness, ability to guard multiple positions. Um, you know, he his second jump was almost as good as his first so he could do so many things athletically. They were so incredible. Um so it was it was fun. I have these two two guys I could throw lops to or find on the break for finishes and use their athleticism and speed to cause the defense problems. And uh yeah, I mean I was very fortunate to get to play with those two guys. Um oh six of mart goes down with the knee injury. Uh Rajabelle dil Barbosa. You win your second m v P. You're on the Clever Slam magazine and the and the headline is is Nash better than Stock? Then? Kid? What were your thoughts like that? Because things were coming at you so fast, Like I said, you were approving all star. You're jumping into this m v P caliber, which you know, only Hall of famers basically, you know, get a chance to do What was all that success like? And how did you take it? And how did you handle it? I always felt like an underdog, So I always like lost myself in in like you gotta work, like if you have a big game or you had a big season your m v P. I never was like I ad made it. I was always like I need to do more. I need to do it again. I need to continue to approving. So I never really like took in like the accolades like that. I always like move right back to my work, you know, right back to my process and just trying to stay focused on what that is. Um one, it helps you handle the pressure and expectations. But to like it keeps you, keeps you sharp, keeps you growing, keeps you getting better. Uh, it simplifies everything if you just know this is my process. I stick to the way I prepare and perform and recover. You know, then then you're thinking about what matters and not getting letting the rest of the stuff get in your head. So yeah, I just i'd always just reverted back to my work. I had a great chemistry talk about how tough wasn't losing a mar Yeah, I mean that second year Mary didn't play. We still made the conference finals. But you know, Boris Dia was phenomenal playing the five the four um as a play Yeah, and Steve, I Steve, I don't mean to cut you off, Steve, but I tell somebody this and they asked me who was the most talented playoff ever played with my NBA career, and I told him, bars D, I don't know why people don't believe me. Yeah. He I mean an incredible basketball player, UM, incredible field for the game passer. Uh could could use that body to you know, to punish smaller guards when he got the switches and was was quick enough and clever enough with the ball even though he only goes right to to roast big guys from the perimeter. UM. And just like he was, you know, he had the vision, like high high level vision to pass. You know. So when I had to pick a role with the Mari, you know, I'd find a Mari for finishes. When I had to pick and roll with with Boris, you know, if I draw two defenders and threw it to him. Now he's playing two on two, three on two, and he's the point guard getting in the teeth of the defense, and he was he was incredible in that position. So that was great. I mean, playing with all those guys though Sean Mari Boris had felt great chemistry. Um. And then on top of the chemistry on the court, we always had fun. Like we had great teams. We had great teams that would go out together, go eat together, go to the movies together, spend time together, so there was always a little yeah, there was always a little more on it. There was always a little more feeling in the dressing room, and and I think that was something that made our team special as well. Two thousand seven, Mari's back. You guys win sixty one games, he plays the whole season. Uh, second round against the Spurs. It's getting heated to too, if I'm not mistaken, and uh oor it takes one of the most blatant cheap shots. And this is coming up. I don't really take cheap shots. I just made hard fouls. But he takes a blatant cheap shot that kind of changed the whole outlook and and and uh of the series, and it was through suspensions and guys stepping on the court. Talk to us about that time, because I mean, obviously the Spurs went on to win. Uh they beat Utah and then swept Cleveland. I mean, I thought you guys had a great chance to win a championship that year with the hell of a team, the style of play. Mari was healthy. Talked to us about that second round matchup. Yeah, man, I mean it's painful to think about, you know, like it is. I mean, I love life, and I'm like life moves on and I great life. But like, you know, we had a great opportunity there. I think we at that game. We tied the series too two with their place going home, going home to regain home court, and I was right at the end of the game, you know. Um. And then then Mamari and Boris gets suspended and obviously we play incredibly small and leading all of Game five until the last minute, and they overtake us. Uh, you know what could have been. But for whatever you know, reason that things happened. I always look at it like I could have made another player too to get over the hump and didn't. Um. But definitely there was some some some luck involved, as there always is, and and we didn't get the breaks. But that's a it's a you know, a team that always found a way to put themselves in a position to win and so maximum respect him, and they got us again unfortunately. Just a little context that for those who don't know. So it's what Game four, you guys to winning that game, right, So we win Game four in San Antonio. I actually watched it recently. Um, I watched I never watched anything, but um, Bill Simmons does that book a basketball podcast, and he asked me to watch that game and talk about it. So I watched it on my phone like right away, like anxiety levels through the roof, like thirteen years and it was alarming to watch. You know, it was alarming to watch because we're supposed to be this fast paced team that um, you know, push the temp on. The reality is we played right into the first hands that game four in San Antonio. I think we we either took or made five threes. You know, we we won in San Antonio one on one like nine seven or one o three. You know, I mean, we should have played so much faster. Um, you know, the way they played that big and how dominant Timmy was. They always had another center alongside him, and um, you know, so to be in that position, it was incredible considering I don't think we played a style it's contrary to kind of like how we remember it that really you know, represented our best opportunity to win. But uh, you know, hats off to the Spurs. But it just shows, like I said, you won their way and that and that's a sign of a team that can win a championship. You know, especially considering that was the Spurs. You know, so you get fouled a Mari and bors step on the court that NBA rules step on the court, which eliminates them from Game five, and you know the rest is NBA history. So that's it's brutal. I mean, they you know, they were reacting in shock. You know, they didn't like chase anyone down. They jumped and then there's five or six assistant coaches all on the on the sideline. You have to go on the court to see around them, you know what I mean, Like you know what I'm saying, Like you it was right down the sideline, so they couldn't like, look, they took a step out to see if I was okay, and you know it wasn't. Definitely wasn't the spirit of the law. It was like a technicality in a sense. So it was a full shit. We didn't get to play the series out absolutely. Um Any truth to the rumor that you would spoken to KG that summer about coming to Phoenix, Yeah, there was there was a time ownership asked me to call him uh and recruit him. Would have been an incredible player to play with, but we didn't have full calf slot that other teams did so in a sense. I And Kevin tells this story too that I told him, I'm kind of embarrassed to call you because you don't have to take a pay got to come here, but we'd love to have you. So we did have that conversation. He respected my honesty. The reality is we just you know, he would have had to take a you know, a much lower salary. So I was never really close to happening. I don't think we tried to get into around the town that was up standing. Were trying to get around that time too. Yeah, yeah, he said it was Phoenix. He said who was his Phoenix us? He wanted to play with Code too, and it ended up being Boston. Yeah. I mean that was a perfect situation, the way they kind of engineered that whole team. And I mean it's almost crazy that they only won once. Yeah, crazy. As good as they were two thousand and ten, you'll probably beat the Spurs, you meet the Lakers. You played against Kobe in Game six, and Kobe go crazy to talk about that. That was he was unbelievable in that game. Um, you know it was it was I don't know that he had a great series until that game. But I remember they won two games in l A. I thought we got a terrible whistle. We came back to Phoenix and one hind and one easily. Then we come back to l A to two, and that's the game. We we came flying back, tied the game with like a couple of seconds left, had all the momentum, and then Kobe missed a game winner air ball and uh run our tests ran in and caught the ball like around his waist to flip it up off the glass. When's when's the game? And you know, like, oh man, that was like another slap in the face for me, just game five, just thinking like, you know, we get Kobe Bryant to miss the basket completely, you know, we have all the momentum, and we give up like a crazy offensive rebound Austin up high off the class. So we go back home, Um, you know, down three two, and Kobe as a as a classic. You know he's making everything, making deep deep threes with grand Hill all in his face. Uh, he was just he was totally on fire and uh had a great game and and deserve to close it up. M M. The summer of two thousand and ten. Um, did you guys think that was your guys last roe with them? Mark? Did you think had you had conversations with him, did you think he was going to leave? There was there a chance? Did he say it was staying? What was that? Like? I thought he was gonna leave. You know, our ownership group was was adverse to going over the salary cap. They also, I think we're scared to give him ARII you know, within troubles he'd have with his knee, um, both knees, I think, uh, you know, the full max. And and so I knew there was teams out there in the Nicks in particular, they we're gonna give him the max, so he would have to take a big pay cut, not only I think in salary, but also in in length of years. So I thought it was pretty clear that there was a great chance he was gonna go. And you know, that was it. That was the end of that kind of run, so to speak. And you know it was it was an incredible run for me playing with the Mari was one of the best partners I had and had so many incredible nights, you know, being on to play with him in transition and pick and roll and on a lot of playoffs success. Never got to the finals, but we're close a number of times, and uh, I'll never forget it. And that was that was an incredibly fun time in my career. Two thousand twelve. You're thirty six years old and you're coming to l A to play with Kobe Actually thirty I think I was thirty eight. Yeah, thirty eighth old man, excuse me coming to l A play with co lakerside dwhite Um talked to us about that time. Yeah, it was exciting. I mean, you know, the big My first priority was I was going through a divorce, so I wanted to come to l A over Toronto and New York the other two options, because it was close to Phoenix and it was so much uncertainty, you know, going through that period. So that was, you know, the number one reason. But then to be able to joint forces with those players, obviously thought we had a championship opportunity, and uh, couldn't have been more wrong. I've gone more sideways, but coming here, I was excited. Um. I actually I think made my last All Star Game that season at thirty eight before I came to the Lakers. So I still believed I could have a big impact, you know, And I don't know how much of it was, you know, I was losing a step, or how much of it was me breaking my knee at the start of that season, breaking my tip fip joint. I know I was never the same after after I fractured my knee. Um. But the whole thing, you know, Dwight was coming off back surgery. I think I think he rushed back. I think he rushed back because I had to white in in Orlando. And when I tell you, I've never played with a more security blanket in my life. He was incredible, and it hurt me because I knew, you know, when you come to Lakers, you you can contest to it's just a different aura that you're expected to win. You're expected to be your best. There's no excuses. Fuck everything else. You're a Laker, so nothing else matters. So him coming back rushing back, I personally knew that he wasn't ready. But I think you alluded to something too that people don't think about in the process, that in the mental preparation, the mental toughness, you're going through a divorce, you know, I mean, so you're still trying to put yourself in a position where uncertainty. I still want to be able to see my kids. I don't want to move too far away without getting too far into your personal life. Talk to us about that, because people don't see that side of athletes and realize how important other stuff in our life is when it pertains to our our our our craft and our profession. Yeah, I mean I think anyone could you know if you took a second to examine that, how difficult that would be. Um. You know, I was like I would fly back times after practice to go to my well, how old the girls have been. They must have been like eight nine years old, go back for our soccer practice and fly back after it, you know, just just to just to see them, to get those touches in, so to speak, Um, and get through that school year. You know they moved to l A after the school year. But um, yeah, I mean it adds to it, right, It adds to everything. And maybe at that stage in my career, the stress didn't help when I'm trying to, you know, overcome so many things. But you know it was it just wasn't meant to be. And I put I've never worked as hard in my life as I did for those two years, trying to make it happen, trying to contribute, trying to be near my best or at a level that I could really contribute, and and it was an exciting prospect. And in the end it was a disaster, but still a great experience. I got, Like so many times, when you go through difficult times, you know it's tough in the moment, but when you get through the other side, you realize that you learn a lot. You were challenged, so allows you to handle the next things that come in life. So it was it was incredible to get a chance to play for the Laker organization, to to meet all the people and that I've been a part of that for so many years. Um and so I take a lot of positives from it, regardless of all the negatives. When did you start to explore cannabis during this process? Uh? You know what my You said cannabis right, yes, sir? Yeah, I thought you said. I wasn't sure. You said Canada. I was like, well, from the job, Yeah, you know what, I'm not I'm not a I'm not a I was never really a smoker. But you know, the Indica has really helped me sleep. I don't know if you guys use Indica for sleep, but I use it for life. Yeah, that man, Like honestly, if it was if it if I didn't, I wasn't aware of it during my career, but sleeping was always a problem for me, and it's the number one way to recover. Um, I really wish, you know, it could have helped me perform to have you know that sleep agent that it isn't you know, as as kind of gnarly, as like the sleep pills that I refused to take because the in fact they have on your body. Um So so really I've I've I've been using that since I retired, and it's given it's improved my life, Like I sleep better, Um, I you know, I've more reserves to be a data five kids, um and do all the things that I want to continue doing. So that's kind that's kind of the extent of it for me. Well, what are your thoughts on cannabis to the betterment in professional sports? Like you said, to recover, to sleep, to to do all the things you didn't know at the time it was helping with because I had a conversation not to uh you know to go in the direction with Steve Kerr when I was with the Wars the last year I won a championship and he had the uh, those back problems, the spine problems, and and and we had a conversation about oddly enough a player talking to his coach, but he couldn't he couldn't, you know, he was just in a horrible position. And it was telling me that, you know, some of the CBD stuff and the TC stuff he was using was really working. I'm just like, wow, you know, me being you know, Jack to someone who smoked cannabis since I was fourteen. I loved seeing that there was finally medical research and studies to prove what we already knew and would make other people more willing to give it a try, you know what I mean. And you were one of them. Yeah, I mean the proofs in the pudding right, Like it's becoming legalized, so we we know enough. We're educated enough now to know that it's not like the stigma that needs to follow it around. Um, there are so many purposes and packages that allow it to help many many people. So I think it's it's just one of those uh parts of evolutionist society that we're gaining, and I think within time it'll be a much more mainstream and common thing in all people's walks and lives, especially for those are professional athletes. So, um, you play with a lot of a great a lot of a lot of players, a lot of great players. I was one player that you could play with that you didn't play with, who would it be? M um? I mean it's interesting because like Jordan was my hero, so you'd love to say I could play with Jordan's But you know, also you know the other players of our era that I competed against. You know, I don't really feel like necessarily like I wanted to play with him because I always felt like we were competing against them. Um. But you can imagine though, like the I want to be like, especially in that era, to play with you know, a great big like uh you know, not not not that Tim, Tim Duncan, Kevin, Kevin Garnett, Um, those guys. A Maori was more like this mobile like big forward and he was incredible in the pick and roll. Those guys were more of those like they owned the game under the basket at both ends. And uh so that those those guys would be incredible, especially in that era. You know, we're like a rim protector was just so invaluable important, you know, the way the game is played. Uh favorite point guard to go to battle against mm hmm uh has had some great battles with Jay Kidd. You know that's kind of my era. Uh, you know, he was somebody that I think I really admired his you know, the way he played the game and how special a player he was. So that was he was one of my one of my favorites. So that actually this music, what's you're listening to? What you gotta repeat right now? Um? He was so funny, like with five kids, Like I'm like, when do I listen to music anymore? Unfortunately, so you know you end up listening. My daughters love Harry Styles, like that was the last concert I went through with me. You know. It's, um, it's crazy. So I still try to like, you know, moving music still moves you, and it's always cool to hear good, good music. But it's like crazy, how in having two little babies the last three years, like music has just fallen out of the window. I just think nothing new, it's it's it's kind of sad. Hopefully I'll get back to it one day. You've been named dropped by a lot of artists. I know I've been I've been lucky, right, real quick, I wanted to touch on real quick. You said you're consulting for the Warriors. Me being there that one year, I was just fucking blowing away about the workouts you would put Steph and k D through. But to see k D doing what Steph did at seven ft and the balance and the spinning and all the ship you had them going through, it was just U. I used to enjoy at the inter practice, sitting and watching that. Talk to me a little bit, just a little bit about that. Yeah, I mean I think like when when I coach, teach whatever you wanna call it, guys, you know, I always try to start first with movement, like being on balance, moving correctly, because I think that if you're moving well, and you're moving in the right way, um, and you have the mobility, stability and the dynamic movements that if you get as as close to your potential in those areas, your skill can take off and your skill can take over. You know, if if you start cutting corners on the way you move, you know, you Nick gait. I think your your skill and your ability to to make plays at your potential. So Kevin is just, you know, like most of the greats, they move really really well. And he's just a freak in that he's six ten, six and eleven whatever he is and skilled and explosive and can control those long favers. I mean, yeah, we ever have we ever seen someone that's like that explosive and that controlled but at that length um inaccuracy. So you know, he's special obviously, and uh, it was it was fun to work with him. It was like I said, well, what blow me away was You're you're not teaching guard movement, but you're teaching balance and all that kind of stuff. So you see staff at six three doing it, and then you see Katie right next to him at seven ft doing the exact same thing, and I'm just like, God, this is It's insane, it is it's it really is crazy. Um, he's you know, let's let's hope we get the best Katie back after this, because he really is a beautiful basketball player and moved so well for someone with such long leavers. Absolutely, last question of the day. Rank these three players for me in your opinion? M J, Kobe, Lebron. It's tricky, you know. I think MJ's my guy for sure always. You know, when you talk about Lebron and Kobe, like, I totally understand why people have Lebron where he is either first or second in many people's eyes. You know. Um, when you look at the whole picture of everything Lebron's done over his course of his career, it's hard to argue with. I think at his best, Kobe was right up there with any of them, you know, Um, you know he I don't know where the knock is, but um, you know he he when he was flying and playing at his best, you know, he he was as good as we've ever seen. So, UM, I don't know. I think you probably you probably had me saying Jordan, Lebron, Kobe on the total picture, But um, I mean, how do you go wrong at their best? There? They all three of them at their best, all three of them that played the game at a at a level higher than uh you know any Yeah, cool, hey man, that's a rap. Steve, Thank you, We appreciate your time. All the smoke. You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and all platforms streaming podcast. Oh them. It's something about how this place forms a different kind of person. On my high school team, we have five guys make the NBA. We had the County rock at you mentioned Prince Shortis County. People know it's about it's the meta of basketball. There are those who have come before us, upon whose shoulders we stay here for this area. You have to have tough skin that Jim became in sanc You warld p G County guy provide buckets for America. Prince Georgia tacks a lot of power, a lot of character. It's nothing that you can do to stop that competitive and we're pushing the community and a culture full. There's just in the water. Mh. This life was all I ever wanted. I'm not leaving, not yet. I was hoping you'll say that you gotta hit the streets, make some money. Paple like us. Let's destroyed people like him, not all up them. Get Showtime free at showtime dot com.

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All The Smoke

ALL THE SMOKE pairs two of the most outspoken and controversial players of their time. Known as fier 
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