Welcome back all the Smoke, episode eight. Man, I got a super special guests. Man, I don't get excited for too much ship. Y'all know that the honorable. But this dude right here, man welcome, oh, Man, appreciate, Man, thank you, appreciate. You have to be here for y'all. You know that. I do have a question. Can I start off with an interview? Why I'm on the couch with you but he's sitting in the King's seat like, I mean, well, you know what I'm just wondering. I mean, I'm gonna explain to you, and I'm explaining to okay, because you know, both of us are great team players, right We're both playing our role. I play a great role of feeding off him, and that's the better seat as far as the production and all that. So he belongs that belong, I belong, true, calm and mellow, all that stuff is different differently. That's but let's get to it. Man. Tell us, I mean I compare you to an athlete from a standpoint, if you're recognized everywhere you go. We know all the basics, but tell us who Stephen A. Smith is from your upbringing right here in New York Native of Hollance, Queens. Born in the Bronx, raised in Queens. Um I raised by the greatest mom in the world. God rested social passed where a couple of years ago. Back to the long battle with cancer. She's married to my dad for sixty sixty one years. Um, that's her old school, old school, you know he you know, he and I had our differences because you know, he could have treated a better, but he's still my dad and I loved him. Um. But because of that, I was extra tight with her. And I was the youngest of six, had an older brother. He died in a car accident to Waco, Texas in nine. Was like in this van there was a salesman traveling salesman and it was fifth team people in one of those sales man and the driver was messing with the radio and stuff like that, and um, it flipped over numerous times. And he was the only one that died. Right. He was right my years and I was. My brother was twenty five when he died and I was sixteen. Yeah, and I know that affected my life. So I'm here you talk about it now, and it was it was crazy altering because first of all, you start questioning a lot of things. It's like you're growing up and this is your big brother who supported you. I got left back in the fourth grade because I got the first grade reading level. I remember cats in the neighborhood laughing at me, laughing like I was a dummy, I was an idiot or whatever. And the reason why I bring that up is because if there's ever anything that inspired me that made me hungry, it was making sure that that laughter would never arrive again. So the reason why it's relatable to this conversation talking to y'all, who I've been interviewing for years as NBA is is that I've always been no nonsense, but I've always been straight. You know, you see me coming. If I got an issue with you, I'm gonna let you know. If I got something I gotta report, you ain't gonna like I'm gonna tell you. You know, all of that other stuff, All of that stuff comes from, believe it or not, that because when people were laughing, they weren't just laughing in front of your face. They were laughing behind your back. They were ridiculing you. They were minimizing you, were diminishing you. And then somehow, some way, they would come in your face and they would smile and didn't act like they were supportive of you, and they weren't. So I was always a kind of person growing up knowing that my mother was straight with me. But sometimes you have relatives that weren't straight for you, friends that weren't straight with you. I always proude of myself and being a person that would be straight, that would be fear. You see me coming. You might not like it, but I will always hit you here, will meet you in the back, and would be it'll be right here. And so that same approach is what I took with me wherever I went. And so I went to school, and I was stupidly telling my mother I didn't want to go to college, so she made me go to a trade school, Thomas Edison Vocation On Technical Height School right here in Queens, where I learned electrical installation. But then they discovered I could play some ball. I wanted as good as y'all, but I could ball, I could shoot, and I had heart, And so I got a scholarship to Winston Salem State. But it was after I did junior college at f I T, which was fashions to the technology laugh at me about it. But I had two things going for us, right, Oh, no, no doubt. I had two advantages. Number one, we were thirty five and fours the junior college ranged fifteenth in the nation. And number two, it was primarily a girls school and the other dudes were homosexuals. That's dead business, don't get me right. But what I'm saying, those who were not left it all to us. So college was beautiful to me. That was before I went down to Winston Salem and playing for big house games. And when I tried out for him and one of the guys that used to play at the University at Winston Salem, his name was Harold Funny Kid, played in the seventies. Brought me down there for a tryout and coach put me on the squad against the starters, and I hit seventeen straight three pointers, sign me the scholarship on the spot, you know. But my first year, they had cracked my knee cap in half. When I cracked my knee cap and half, first of all, I was I was down there at a hundred pounds. I was a little pleased, So that's bad enough then, But then I cracked my knee cap in half. It was a D two school, so they didn't have the facilities like the big schools had to help you rehabilitate, had to come home for rehabbing all of that other stuff. And my mother said, well, what you're gonna do? And sure enough, I could write, I could report, um, I could do all of those different things. And a critical and persuasive writing teachers saw me and said, you're a born sportswriter. Let me take you out to lunch next week and talk about it. And I didn't know, but he took me out to lunch. It was with the sports editor for the Winston Salem Journal. He took me to his office. The man met me, hid me with than five minutes to start off as a clerk and everything. And then I just went from doing that to being a beat writer for Wake for our soccer to ultimately doing internships in Winter Salem, Greensboro, Atlanta before getting my first job at the New York Daily News is a high school sports reporter. Stayed there for fourteen months. Philadelphia Inquiry came calling. I did, went there, got promoted like nine times, covered eight every days of his career, the whole bit. And that's basically, it's basically, well, tell me tell me about in the eighties, growing up with the basketball in the eighties out here in New York. To man, listen, let me tell you something. Well, first of all, see to me, I grew up idolizing Dwayne Pearl Washington. Gress Pearl was something spect to me. He was the greatest college ball player I I've ever seen Michael Jordan, and everybody was like they was. Don't get me wrong, they want another level eventually, but on the collegiate level. At that time, when this brother rode in the severe cues, I'm telling you right now, I remember one of the most memorable moments watching Dwayne Pearl Washington was when he lost the Big East title to Mark Jackson and st John Mark Jackson, Walter Berry, Willie Glass, all of those cats at the garden and it was the last play they had. I think it was either Jackson or Willy Glass. I think it was Mark Jackson. You're here the jump shot, and the next thing you know, it's only a few seconds left, and Dwayne Pearl Washington grabbed the ball and pushed it up the court and literally danced through five dudes and then went in for a layup and it missed, like back in the river. You could remember was that this kid's handle was so nasty. I remember Jeane Smith that Georgetown was considered this defensive eight, and Pearl, you know, buckled him to his knees and a whole bit. So I grew up in that eraor watching Dwayne Pearl, Washington, watching Kenny Anderson, Ross Mark Jackson obviously in the whole bit. So that was the error that I grew up in and and playing ball at that time, just traveling in the streets and everything like that. You have to have hard, you have to have hard. And you was going up against cat from all over the country. Well they had hard. To New York thought it was it, but then you what you really got assist a New York City Cats catball one on one, but that actual team concept. All the places managers other places had avengager because in New York it was the hardware. It was Rutgers Park. You could go to Stating. Now you can go to Brooklyn, you can go right here on west Ford Street, Rutgers Hall and one and Lennox. You had all of those places, and you had Katch who could dance and be one on one. But part of our problem as New York basketball players was disciplined, you know, playing within a team structure, not taking over, taking control, believing that you were it. The dudes that got that were the successful ones, the Kenny Anderson's, the Stephen at one point, stuff like that. I always knew Marvin is gonna better than Phelippe Lopez. I wasn't caught up in that he was he was the man. He was the man because he went to Rice and I was a high school It's right for the New York Daily News at the time, and I was the first one that wrote the article, y'all keep talking about this cat Philippe. Is this dude here, step on Marlbury. That's going to be specially because when I looked at Phelipe, I pay attention stuff, nice sleek frame. The friended defendant was fundamentally sound, but did not have a reliable jump shot at all. And I said, that is not Marbury's problem. Marbury could get to the whole at will. He could pull up from ft, he got a handle, he could pass. He was a pure point guard and didn't mind ripping you apart while playing a teen game. So I always knew he was going to be better, but it was cats like Karee Read that played and ultimately went to ice. He's are the guys that I go watch God Sham God wells. It was all world with the handle, but the jump shot was suspect. If God Sham God had a jump shot, I'm telling you right now, would have been and you and they couldn't Gard and even the closest thing to Pearl in terms of his handle, in terms of his hand and what he could do with his boy handles skill, but he couldn't finished from the perimeter. Shad one of my twins, we were in au turnament one time when they were ten years old, and he pulled the Sham God and I blew my mind and it worked and he hid it and passed my other twin. He hit at corner three and I asked, it was like, you know what, when you know what that move is called, who made that move up? I just seen CP three do it, Dad, like they don't understand where it comes from. And that kind of and that kind of takes me back to you seen from the legends in New York to the early eighties of the NBA. The nineties two thousand to what the game is today? Walk us through that transition of style of play and what you think about it from now to then. Well, I think that. Listen in the eighties again, because I was playing, and I was young, and I wasn't a journalist. All you saw is where you were at. So you in New York, you saw New York, but we new York is so we think we know, we think we know, but we don't really know, because unless you're traveling, you really really don't know. And again, that individuality came to it. You saw more of a team concept in the nineties because remember from a from a collective standpoint, team orient at the standpoint where you think basketball in the eighties, you thought joya paranoia, You thought John Thompson, you ain't Michael Graham, Michael you know, Michael Jackson. Point guard Reggie Williams was nasty. He could play all of those cats, right, So you had that, But their signature was defense. They could shut you down and literally rip your heart out of your chest. They're scared to live in hell out of you. That's right. Then you go Villanova with the four corners at Pickney, McClean and those boys that might have disrupted them that one thing. They held the damn ball for the whole damn Final National Championship game. But it was what it was, okay. And then of course you saw Syracuse St. John's, all of those cats coming uh with Kenny Anderson, remember Leaf, the Weapon three Georgia tech n Oliver Dennis got three days, the whole crew. You saw all of that. So that was going into the nineties. Even though you saw individuality, what to me really took it to another level was talk in U N l V. Greg Anthony, Stacy Algman, Larry Johnson and the crew. You saw these guys right, They defended and they played together. And even though I'm not sure people really think about it the way that I do, I give Larry Johnson a whole lot of credit because he was miniature in height, but he was massive, big, strong, and he was a man amongst boys in the low post. But he was the ultimate team player. He didn't care he could score and would give you his twenty on any given night. But other nights where other Cats were doing their thing, he was absolutely fine. Greg Anthony took pride in defending you ninety four feet and putting you on lockdown, Anderson Hunt could shoot from three Stacy Agman would dunk on their face one minute and then block your shot and du up another. So when you had all of this going on, okay, Dan, remember they were the rebels we called George Town, the rebel you know, rebellious rebels. Oh, the running rebels, I'm saying. So you see all of that happening, and you see them go against Duke and annihilate them by thirty for the national championship. The next year comes out, they got Grand Hill less time. They faced you n l v in the semifinal and they take you and l v our very very close game, but they took him out. And that's where Hurly and Christian Layton and those boys ascended. When you saw that, you start, I believe that was the transition to a more team concept. Only from this perspective, you saw a white cats because obviously Larry Bird, let you know, white boys can play, to make no mistake about it. You saw that and you had the respect. But in the same breath that was as an individual. Collectively, you didn't think a collection of them was going to take you out, right, even though we all know who no basketball, you don't win beat that un l VT without Grand Hill. We couldn't take away from the heart that Hurly and late in the show and going up against so you saw cats. And even though again the game was individualized to a strong degree because of the eighties and because of the ascension of Michael Jordan's you know, because you remember you had Magic and burd going at and even though they were the marquee dudes that were being advertised, they played for elite teams, so there was a team concept. It was Jordan at individualized stuff in our eyes, and so we got caught up in the Jordan and Jordan and Jordan's. Then it was a ninety two that we got reminded of Hurly late in a team And so now you started really really thinking about basketball the way it should have been thought about all along. You started looking at individual talent, but how they pissed with the team. And then you get into the finances because you didn't have a rookie salary capitals, the rookie wage scale. You got big dog coming out of Burd due he saw for sixty nine. He wanted he got sixty Yeah, I think, so what what what What happened is it was Big Dog number one. Then you had Grant Hill and Jason Kidd both getting pretty much the same amount of dollars. Right then you had um See Webb coming out. But the same time as Penny Hardaway. All right, that rookie wage scale again wasn't in full effect at that particular moment in time, so you were still able to look at things from a team concept, but in the same breath you started paying attention to the individuals. You couldn't help it because of the money individuals were getting paid. But again, even though Big Dog was a scoring machine, these guys were relatively unselfish. Him, especially Grant Hill and Jason Kidd, didn't care if he scored at all. He would be happy giving you fifteen twenty a sinst the night if he could. So when you saw that, it heightened the level of team concept having that mentality, and to me, it really really changed the way things happened, because when you saw these cats getting that money as number one, number two, number three, oh pick. On one hand, you wanted the money as an individual, but the people that were bringing you on board insisting that you fit into a team. What happened is. It's sort of changed your mindset because we you had cats like yourself and others, not literally y'all at the time, but figuratively speaking, guys like y'all looking at the game from a business perspective. Okay, why should I make this sacrifice? What's in it for me? This cat getting paid but the rest of us ain't and sot. At that point, now you start looking at the business and being reminded what made Magic money, what made Bird money, what made Jordan money, ultimately what was going to make you all money, and you start looking at it in their game really really transformed from a business mindset, because I think more business minded players came into the league at that time than ever before around our time, and and we are I do fit in that category because especially after I win the championship and the Spurs, I started looking at teams where I fit into the system, right, can I can have some longevity there? And and and and the game that did transcended that because that was a big part of us, and we were free agents. We had to find out where we fit. We just couldn't go anywhere right now. It's definitely people don't understand how important I mean, if we're getting into this area that being drafted in a certain organization or situation fits, and you had that when someone asked a fan asked the question, if KG was drafted to the Spurs and him Tim Duncan switch spots, who is the greatest power forward of all time? And do they have the same success with KG and Pop? For me, personally, I'm able to look being a student of basketball the way that I am, I'm able to look at things in a different light. Like, for example, KG was special, but his frame and the style of play he preferred, I don't think that would have been more successful in San Antonio that Tim Duncan was. I don't believe that Tim Duncan, to me is is the greatest powerful who ever played basketball. That's how I view it. That's how I view it. Now. Why do I say that? Because for me, from a principal perspective, the word power forward matters. You're a fool, even though you can have an outside game and step away from the basket like KG did, like Chris Bosh ultimately did, like Blake Griffith still tries to do the fact that the matter is is that excuse me? I got news for both of y'all, and I challenge anybody to deny this is true. Take away, Tim Duncan, who's the best powerful that ever lived? You know who? I would say, Kevin Michael Money in the post ten and in Unstoppable and under Unstoppable, it was an automatic two points. What I'm saying to you is that if you are a quote unquote powerful it I'm not talking about the hybrid game that they've asserted into the mix head where they've changed the positions, they've renamed it, and they want to tell you this is what I want to hear. All that when you talk about the position point guard, shoot guard, small forward, powerful, its center, all the forward spot. Tim Duncan hated correct me if I'm wrong, Hate it when you put him at the five, hate it being listed at the wanted no parts of it. He knew what he was and when you gave that brother the ball, it didn't matter what he was facing the basket or whether his back was to the basket. You put that brother seventeen feet and end. It was a nightmare decision. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. So for me when I look at KG, when I look at KG, as being an elite talent who happened to play power forward that had perimeter skills, but he wasn't no prototypical, quick, essential power forward the way that Tim Duncan was, even when KG had his back to you, he was still looking for the turnaround jump shot. Tim Duncan might dunket on you, he might they go up, he might cross you, he might hook you, he might shoot it turn around the bank shot. It was an arsenal the likes of which we haven't seen. And that's how I look at Tim Duncan, and that's why I would say he is the greatest power forward that I've ever seen, along with ten rebounds and eight blocks. Like, let's go back to um kind of when you started your professional career, tell us what, tell us what that was like? Because you know, people always, like I said, I kind of compared you to an athlete from a standpoint. They see the finished product, they see you on ESPN and all the success you're having now, but your journey was anything but the journey. Well listen, man, people where they've written these articles about me. I lived off with tune efficient kool aid stop. I'm from New York City. I'm from the streets of Hollis Queens, New York City, and I was working in Archdale, North Carolina for the Greensboro News and Record. I started off as an editorial assistant doing aggon material and school lunch man like in in in a sports department for a newspaper. All of these little things that you see where this shows you a sheet with the scores and everything. The computer from a digital perspective is things that formulate a page and stuff like that. And you gotta type all of that stuff in there just to make sure it's framed correctly and it fits in the paper. If you do it wrong here, wrong there, the copy comes off the paper and then you gotta make sure it fits all of this stuff. So I had to do all of those things right. And that was in my daytime when I was getting paid. And then I would get off at six and drive throughout the Try States, you know, the Piedmont Tried area in North Carolina, covering high school football from seven pm until midnight for free. I didn't get paid for it. I did it just to accumulate clips to build a resume, to show that I was really committed to being a sports writer. That led to internships in Atlanta back at Winston Salem before I got the high school sports rang job at the New York Daily News. So then when you get into the business, Um, Isaiah Thomas and I are tight to this very day. He forgot why. And one day, a few years ago, I told Isaiah, I said, you don't you you forgot who you are? He said, what you're talking about? I said, you gave me my first interview. Isaiah Thomas was approaching his retirement year with the Detroit Pistons. He was a two time champion. I was a high school writer and a guy by the name of Tim Donovan who does media relations pr for the Miami Heat. All of these years, Tim was working at the pat Riley doing the knicks at the time. I was a high school sportswriter. You ain't supposed to have access to those what I'm saying, but Tim, but Tim knew I wanted to be an NBA writer, and Tim Donovan was like, come on, I'll help you out and gave me access to the locker room. You know, he didn't have to do that, so he gave me like, he gave me access to it, and obviously I knew my place, so I wasn't trying to get in the way or whatever. I was just watching, study and learning, etcetera, etcetera. And one day Isaiah Thomas came in as still before he retired with the Pistons, and he was doing interview with the media, and I said to him, I'm an inspiring sports writer. It would really help me if I could get an interview with you. He said, can you do it now? And sat down with me and gave me a twenty five minute and uh in, Nate tiny Archibald did the same exact thing for me once I became a full time high school sports writer. So it's like I didn't get here by accident, but I didn't get here by myself. There was a whole lot of people that extended me a help in hand. When I was at the Winston Seal of Journal, there was an all white staff led by Terry Oberley, but I still remember the copy of it this very day. Dan Loman, Steve Man, Phil rit Shack, and all of these guys that I haven't seen in years, that I haven't worked with in nearly thirty years. But they were the guys that would sit me down and say Okay, this is a piss poor job. You wrote this sentence wrong, you wrote that graph wrong, you missed this fact, this fact, that fact. And they literally taught me journalism. And so as a result, when you go through those experiences and you see the work was put in in order to get people to way they are and how they extended to help in hand. Listen, I ain't just a black man. I'm a brother, you see what I'm saying. So you're not expecting a bunch of white cast extand their help with man. But when they did that, and as like whoa, you know what, you're looking at the world a little bit differently because you're like, you're reminded that, yeah, we're different, but we're the same. And everybody got a heart, and everybody's golfing, and everybody's got compassion and stuff like that, and they want to extend to help and hand other people. And that's what they did for me. And all they asked in return is that I didn't make make make I made sure not to make their effort being vain. When you you said you wanted to go for this, that's why we helped you go for it. So even to this day, nobody's more prouder than me than those guys. And you'll see a guy like Isaiah Thomas. I get a text from Isaiah Thomas every month. It's one of the biggest reasons why because he remembered after I told him, this is what you helped stop me, and you remember what I said. So it's like being true to what you do. And again it dictates the approach to some degree because you know the sacrifices that you made. I remember when a cat came, you know, they came to me and they wanted me, uh to have a job in Seattle. I was gonna go unless the New York dality news came. They had a job for me and and and Fresnel. I was gonna go unless unless the New York dedity news came. It was like, no matter what, whatever, the sacrifices that are that need to be made. I think to this very day, I've never been married because of that, because I was always ready to get up and go. Because when you're growing up and you pouring you living off tune efficient cooler. From the time you're in college, you taste government cheese and bread. When you're younger, you sat up there and watch your mother work two jobs seven days a week, sixteen hours a day for twenty years with one week's vacation, NonStop. You go through all of that. It's not that love don't matter, it's not that family don't matter. It's nothing that. It's that I'm not going back to that become numb to a lot of stuff, and whatever, whatever sacrifices need to be made, I'm going to make to get ahead. And that's always been my approach. So when I talked to professional athletes, particularly those of us that are professional athletes black folks, I'm sitting there like, I know your story. I've been through, but there's a flip side to it. The same dude that's gonna support you because I get your story is the same dude that's gonna hold you accountable because I know your story. So when you sit up there, you're doing stupid ship. You see what I'm saying. That's compromising everything you worked for. Few are gonna be harder on you than me because I know what you went through to get there, and you're just gonna blow it for that. That's how I'm looking at it, and that's been my approach throughout my entire professional career. As I reported, these guns so would have been some of the major obstacles, so to speak, within this professional Well, first of all, you you you don't want to use the word racist, because it's not that people are saying you black. So I'm gonna hold you down. And it's that simple. It happens. But it's not just that. Sometimes it's the kind of person they want you to be. Sometimes it's what they think they can get out of it. Sometimes it's okay, it's not your turn. Like when I thought about, for example, let me get political with y'all for a second in this regard. One of the things that I always held against the Democratic Party, for example, was when Hillary Clinton ran against Trump this time around, what was my issue? Nothing to do with politics to me, And it's not hor i'm talking about. I'm talking about in general. The mindset was, it's hard turn. You see what I'm saying. I'm telling you that's the same thing that exists in corporate America. There nobody is getting ahead without a help in hand. There is always someone in a position of power that you need to be at champion and the supporter of yours. You will not ascend on your own volition. Give damn how good you all give, damn how talented you are. You better know somebody, and it better be somebody in a position of influence who's interested in helping you. Otherwise it's just not gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. Right, So I say all of that to say somewhere along the way, not that it's the core decision maker, but as somebody that's respected and connected enough where if they champion you, it's a big boost for you. You gotta make sure you have that. That's why when I give speeches, I talk about it ain't just about having a mentor, it's about having a cheer lead as well. You need both. You you do need somebody that prevents you from falling into that abysses and staying there. But you also need somebody that's attached to the industry. You're aspired to it, you're inspiring to excel in. They're connected enough to guide you through the mind fields. You need both. And so for me, that was always my approach. And but again to address the obstacles question, the problem that you run across sometimes, particularly you're younger and talented, they want to hold you back because there was always somebody else in the line whether to get where you are. They might have been older, supposedly paid more dues or anything like that. And what I'm mindful and cognizant of is what wins. If they've been there that long and they and they haven't gotten it yet, doesn't that tell you? Shouldn't that tell you that maybe they ain't the chosen one. You have people in positions of power that resists that thought. Their mentality is to make you wait because they had to wait. And sometimes it's appropriate, but a lot more often than we realize, it's not. And so having those obstacles, there was plenty of people He don't need to be a beat writing yet, he don't need to be an NBA column that yet, he doesn't need. At the time that I became the twenty first African American in the history of this country to be a general sports columnist in March A, two thousand and three, they were like, Na, he don't need that yet. Well, I said, there's a lot of things you're telling me I don't need. But you capitalizing all of what I'm provided, do you want to win or not? And so you saw first to Philadelphia Inquirer, then ESPN ultimately and ultimately Fox as well, and then ESPN again ultimately you saw them capitalizing on it, and it raised my level of awareness and consciousness because it taught me you must have something to offer somebody. They can say whatever they want, but at the end of the day, when you go to these folks, you have to make sure it ain't just about you. This is what I want, this is what I deserve, this is what I need. No, there must be something in it for somebody. You're asking of something from them, because the likelihood of them giving you what you want while getting nothing in return is slim the nun if it's not beneficial as artificial, did you go exactly? And and and that's just that's just as real as it gets. And so for me when those were the obstacles because my lack of knowledge at the time, you do tend to get caught up. You almost have that athlete's mentality. Meant, please put them in front of me. I'm mom dan what I'm saying, I don't give a damn who it is. But in reality, what I learned, and this is where sports really really helped my life, and covering gods like yourself help my life immensely. You sit up there and you look at certain situations, and the athletes themselves teach you how envious and jealous you can be. Y'all assume, not literally, y'all, but you know what I'm saying, athletes, y'all assume it's because of the money. Of course, that has something to do with it, if you can pay your bills and live a lofty lifestyle compared to reporters that are covering you, of course, but that's not the big thing. The big thing is the freedom you appear to have. Yes, you have to show up to the games, and yes you have to show up the practice, but there's so many hours in a day that you just get to live your life and be you, and you get to do other things that transcend the world of sports. While so many folks in this world are limited the pigeonholes and marginalized in a fashion that they can't escape from because they don't have the juice to do it, the fact that y'all have the juice to do it is where a real strong level of envy comes from. And not envy as in jealousy, envy as inish. I wish I could do that. But if I can't do that, why can't they appreciate the fact that we can't do it and they can instead of snubbing their nose at us. That's what a lot of times to see. Reporters don't get into these conversations with y'all like that because either they feel intimidated, they don't feel you hither, they don't feel you listen. In my opinion, they don't respect y'all enough, And my attitude is I've always had respect for it. There's that y'all know me for years. You know, y'all could come talk to me about anything. Let's let's let's roll. Which is why again I could be hardcore because I know, Okay, this cat got this going on. I know I didn't report it. I know the limitations to what I'm gonna say. Y'all been around me, y'all know the sh I know, and there's plenty of times I'm like that, Yo, I don't do that. This is the game. I know why you funked up last night. That's between us. Now. I might let you know handle that because you look bad and you need I know, but I ain't gonna say what, but I'm gonna let you know. But I don't want I don't want you to say it's coming from the right place. You gotta quote that. I'm gonna read that. I thought was very interesting. For the jay Z's, lebron Shacks and the others, I don't consider them the American dream. I consider me the American dream. They're the American fantasy. If you got a one in a billion shot of being them, but you can you can be Stephen A. Smith elaborate on that. It's the truth. Jay Z music mogul, billionaire with Beyonce as his wife. Yeah, think think about uh Shaquille O'Neill, one of the greatest players to have ever lived, four time champions, seven ft three hundred and fifteen pounds doing what he does. The Kobe is the Lebrons of the world, freaks, ultimate freaks of nature. And even if you could be them as a talent, could you pull off everything they've put They've pulled off in terms of transcending their business, their world of sports, the world that we live and understand something they can talk about, communism, fascism and all of this other stuff. I am of the belief that everybody's a capitalist in their own way. Everybody's trying to get their shared they're not trying to get just their little piece, and everybody gets the same. There's something inside of you that says, I gotta get more to validate who I am, and that I'm not typical. I'm not normal. I'm a bit atypical. I'm not ordered eary, you see what I'm saying. So my point is that when you look at those guys, understand that that's not everyday stuff, that's not every year stuff. That's generational stuff that we're talking about for the select few. Me got left back in the fourth grade, first grade a reading level, struggle with reading and writing, pounded the payment, got my education, grew up, broke, starved at times, had a poor family, but we stuck together for some reason, by the grace of God and the most wonderful mom in the world. All those things happen. And what did I do. Yeah, I'm successful right now. That's fine. I'm fifty two. I've been in this business since. It took me twenty eight years to get to the point that I'm at right now. I'm living large. Now, I'm I'm living large right now, I'm saying, but it took twenty eight years, and so for me, it's like, understand, you're not them, but look at my path and tell me what is it about my path that you can't accomplish. I'm not trying to say I'm not special that I didn't accomplish something. I'm saying what I accomplished is achievable for a vast majority of folks in this world. Not necessary really monetarily. I've been blessed in that regard as of late. But I'm talking about the path that I took to the success. Take away the money for a second and just look at the path. Who can't do what I did if you really really think about it. I couldn't be Jay Z on my worst day, on my best day, lebron Kobe shocked people like that. No, but reading and writing and knowing how to report and busting your tail and studying and just grinding every day. I got this the old fashioned blue collar way, and I think a lot of people can achieve that. And I'm glad you asked me that question cause I understand that more because then a lot of people might not even start off with the hand that you was dealt the hand, you know, they might be dealt a better hand. So I'm glad you asked because I understand the question, because I didn't understand it when you first said. I definitely understand what I told you that you are to us, you are the lebron in broadcasting. I would say thank you to y'all. That's not just about me. I'm not saying I had nothing to do with it, but it's like, listen, I tell Ai this, AI called me and and undercover wise AI and emotional do and he called me once a week and tell me he loved me once a week. Same here, and we love him back. Man. Man, that's my that's my little brother. Were very we're very, very close. And that's saying a lot. If you know anything about our history and some of the things I had to write and say, you know, they can't. You know, it's shocking that we are as type of people don't realize we've always been tight. And a lot of times when we didn't talk is because I jumped in this butt because of what he was doing, and I didn't report it, but it didnt stopped me from cust of the mouth going off because well, you know what, you brought this right. But what I'm saying is is that I never failed to thank him. I don't think anybody is more. And I'm not trying to sit up there and say he don't deserve, you know, the credit or whatever. There is no way in my mind I would be in sitting here today with the success that I've enjoyed if it wasn't for Aliniviously. I mean that guy to have to be the superstar that he that he was and to embrace you in a sense way everyone doing. I don't give it THEMN what report he talked to, I'll give them what interviews he did. I don't give it. His availability is unavailable, inaccessible. I don't give a DMN. With everyone knew stephen A and Ai. Everybody knew that I wasn't fly on the wall. So I was in the c web trade in two thousand three from Sacramento to out here, and that's when I, uh, you know, I met I met you early on and saw the connection, and it kind of tripped me out because that's not you know, not that you guys are the enemy, but you know, most guys don't get that close to the other side, so to speak, you know what I mean. So that's early on when I started understanding and kind of following your path and understanding, man, you really know what it's like to be in our not even knowing your backstory, but you put the time and to know what it's like to be in our shoes, you know. And I think that's why. You know, a lot of athletes don't respect people that haven't done what we do because we don't think they have an appreciation and understand how hard it is. But you put the time in work, being a former hooper, being right there in the mix with us to understand. So when your criticism comes across, it's from a good place and it's warranted. But even what you saying that, I still got to give the credit to him because he was at the top of the heat popularity was and this dude had no reason to trust anybody, you understand, and certainly not me because I grew up. You play like, yeah, do you know what I'm saying? But but he I knew he fits right in my alley because what he respected most was realness, and he knew I wasn't gonna lie to him, and so that went a long way and and you know the kind of things. And I never get in it, and I've never told the story, and I ain't gonna tell y'all what he said. But he went the hell off on Larry Brown so bad one time, told me to tearing the tape recorder on and went, but Listed told me that he didn't say turn it off. He said turn it on and went but Listed and he said things about Larry Brown that would have that would have got him traded at the very least, okay, because he couldn't stand Larry Brown at first. Right. And he came back the next day and he says, Stephen, ain't you write that story. It's gonna kill me. Kill me? And right in front of him, I turned the tape record off. He said done. I go back to the Philadelphi Inquirer. I said, kill a story. They're like what I said. I said, kill a story. It's not going on the paper. I promised him, it's not. It's not. There'll be plenty of stories to write. We right, just like that. Understand now, I'm telling you it's the kind of story that could have made my career. Anybody else get this story. It's coming out it could have made my career. It never happened because you gotta touch on somebody's humanity. And again, I know what kind of man I am, which is why I will go hard as certain cats. I got a problem with a few players in today's game, Make no mistake about it, because it's the chirping, it's the whisper. And if y'all don't know, if as long as y'all have known me, I know both of y'all will vouch for this. Kobe convous for this, d Way avouch to see speak, avouch for this, mellow others. There's a lot of people that canvous for this. All you got to do is come talk to me. You. I don't have to agree with you. I don't have to you. We could cut each other out, you know, it doesn't matter, but we can talk as men. What I don't have any respectful is the chirp all that. And when we talk about my history my career, you know who two or three of the blazers that I was most tight with throughout my reporting career Derrick Coleman. Oh. Now, don't get me wrong, a lot of kids. But let you know why, because they never lied to me. You two never lied to me. If you couldn't say something, you didn't say something. Or you say, Stephen, I ain't touching that you say because you knew I understood. No, Stephen, I ain't going there. And that's all I'm talking about. It's like, do you know what what I would have to deal with if I wrote something about Oak without talking took, you know, or DC or somebody like that. Oh, hell no, I don't want that problem. I don't want that problem. I don't know. Oh I need to talk to you where you at. Because what I'm saying, he's he's a man, and it's like you're going deal with him on the real MJ another cat, real you know, stuff like that. I don't have any tolerance or any patience for the chirp and it's weak man, you know. And so a lot of times you got these cats. You got your Twitter account, you got Facebook, you got all of this other stuff. Okay, that's fine. Well I do have seven million social media Um, I do have a two hour daily national television show. I do have a nationally syndicated radio show. Um, I am getting paid a little bit. I'm not broke. You're gonna get back I mean, we really want to go here? We really want to go here? Or can we talk like men? Just a conversation? And because I think one of the things that I've proven in my career, if I'm wrong, I'll say I'm wrong. And oh, by the way, if I say something publicly wrong, I'm not gonna apologize privately. I'll go right on national television. Yo, he got me. I was wrong. You see what I'm saying. You you don't have to be the way these cats are. And I'm not saying all. I'm not saying most, but there's a few of them that's just weak when it comes to just communicating as men. And I don't respect that. I don't respect that at all because I'm not that way, and I don't expect them to be that one time because I think that we can intimate because they know what what it was being said is real. So you can be mad about it, probably, but not just that. Here's where I don't have respect. You could come to me and it could be real. I never forget when a I was mad at me and we didn't talk for almost two years and cats were sitting up there as Yo, man a, I can't wait to see you. Man, he gonna he gonna do something to were talking. We're talking like that, you can ask this. And and I rolled down to Atlanta. I made a special trip. I went down with Atlanta. I had my boys. I rolled up there. I told you about like, look I gotta handle this. I need a man thing hand. So I walked out. I went down there, a I came there. He met up with me, and he humbled me in a way that I've never been humbled in my career because he said, you were right, you were wrong. He said, it's just that I saw your name in the head he said your name on the body line. And that hurt me. And I said, damn, you know, because I'm sitting there, I'm like, I'm doing my job and I'm looking out and this ship. I didn't say. You know, there's a lot that I couldn't have said, but I didn't say it, and I wouldn't say it. But it still hurt me because it was like, he's right. I mean, I had to do my job because you know, you're missing in action. I got a job to do. But what I'm saying is all he was saying. He wasn't saying that I shouldn't have written it. He was explaining where his hurt came from. In other words, the same exact story, word for word verbatim could have been written. And if it was somebody else's name with the boy, he wouldn't have cared. It was that it was me and it. And it just reminds to me, Yo, man, our relationship is not typical. We got a special relationship. You mean a lot to us man, whether whether you know it a lot, you mean a lot to us man, and so and so for me, I just what I try to do is that's why I go out of my way. I'm like, look, i'm gonna look for you, I'm gonna call you, I'm gonna come talk to you. Yo, keep doing this and I'm gonna have to do this, stop, fix this whatever, whatever. Do this. You know, this is your person stuff. You ain't gotta worry about that. I ain't got nothing to say about that. But I'm gonna say this about you on the court. I'm gonna say this about you know you come into practice later, I'm gonna do something like that. And so when you have that kind of mentality, you just wish that people saw you as like I'm just looking at that them, like, Yo, do you have you seen what I've been doing. I don't have to talk to you. I get paid to talk about you, not to you. I go out of my way to travel, go to games, and do all of this stuff to talk to you. I don't have to do that. There is nothing in my contract obligating me to talk to y'all at all. I can simply watch the games and give my opinion. But I travel across this country talking to you, trying to cultivate a relationship with you, Just so you know, Yo, man, you got something to say about me, I got something to say in response. I'm sitting here talking to y'all a day. There's no excuse on God's green earth while I should go on the air and talk about mad Mons and Stephen Jackson without calling you. What possible excuse? But possible? I mean, if something happened, I need to first y'all. I haven't spoken to them. I'm going to speak to them, just as as much as I can say. Until I speak to them. And there's certain players in the league to this very day that I like that I don't try. I try not to say damn worried about them until I talk to them, because some of them scared of living hell, like you're gonna damn, I'm gonna head now they're calling me. Now that's right. But but but again in the right way from the standpoint, they pick up the phone and call y'all. Respect that. You know you got some cast they're hanging wrongs, call you the agents, call yeah, all that other stuff, like for example, whether it was d Way, it was a c P. Especially Kobe and somebody, no, man, I see their name. I'm like, damn, I don't messed up. What did I going on? Real quick? What did I just respecting to there we go and I know that, and I know that, and that's what I respect. It's too many cats that chirp and whisper and use hanging wrongs to do it. And that's what pisses me. Or you know them, you know, I know, I know, you know you and they know we know they do and they know we know. Because there's no excuse for it. It really really is, it really is. We're living in a climate today that's really touchy. Like you said, we don't like to bring race into it, but race plays a big key and just to today's society when you when you're hot, takes to your point of views, go against culture, so to speak. And I've seen it up later and Jack and I talked about it off camera. Right, Tell me what it's like when they try to question your blackness or or what you stand for just because you don't agree with First of all, that pisses me off. That's one of the that's one of the few things that pisss me off. I usually have alligator skin. I know it don't seem that way because I'm ranting the raven on the air waves, but I sleep well at night. You know what I'm saying. I'm not worried about most things people say. I don't give a damn. I'm gonna do what I do. But when they question my blackness, first of all, is a couple of several layers where you find that offensive. First of all, do you know who I am? Do you know what battles that I have fought in corporate America to facilitate opportunities for black people? Asked ESPN, asked the Philadelphia Quira, asked the New York Daily News, ask Fox ask young brothers and sisters in this industry, the things that I have done to pave the way and pave the road to them. Those folks don't know what they talk about. That's number one. Number two, Who the hell are you to define blackness? What is the definition of blackness? Because we gotta be careful with stuff like that, Like, you know, you got folks in there. I'm not a Republican, but you got folks that sit up there in the second they see a black Republican, they say he's a sellout or was colin power or sellout serving in our military, serving serving this country? Was he a sellout? Really? Are you sure about that? Did you know that Dr Martin Luther King Jr? Had Republican ideals? Did you know that? Do you listen to folks like Minister Farrakhan and others preaching about the same things the actual conservatives preach about in terms of handling your own business, being an entrepreneur, owning your own stuff, not dependent on the government or anybody else to do things for you that you could potentially do for yourself. Do you know? And what is your definition of blackness? And then the third element to it that really really alarms me is what's your incentive for doing that. Now, let's sit here. It doesn't We're sitting here. We talked, let's be really nobody running from it, this whole Kaepernick stuff that we're damn So let's analyze this for a second. Colin Kaepernick takes a knee. It was for police brutality. It was for racial discrimination and racial inequality. As I said on first take, what black man will possibly have a problem with that? Of course I didn't have a problem with where I took issue was your execution after you need you took a knee, Because now it's about where you're going from here. So he Eric read and others, you're going after black folks. First, it was Malcolm Jenkins, a brother plays for the Philadelphia Eagles, won the Super Bowl championship with the New Orleans Saints. He sits up there, he's talking with you, trying to include you into the mix because they're negotiating with owners to address the issues you said you wanted address. You didn't say anything about you wanting the job. You didn't say that. You said police brutality, racial discrimination, okay, racial oppression. You wanted those issues addressed. What did they do? The league itself negotiates an eighty nine million dollar payout to the players coalition. You didn't want to be a part of that. That's why you weren't a part of it. Eric Read accused him of co opting the movement. We understand that. I don't agree with it, but we understand it. What Malcolm Jenkins is saying is you took a knee. Now what are you going to do? You said you wanted the issues address. We're trying to get the issues address. It could be more for billionaires, but they how millions. They than what I mean. Else, it's better than a zero. Right, you have a problem with it, I get it you, Eric Read. You approached his brother at midfield during the coin tours of a game on a Sunday afternoon. You're ready to fight this bro. You get ready on the football field against him, but instead you want to go street on the football field because you don't like what he did. Jay Z music mogul. Everybody loves jay Z mad respect from the hood, talks about it, preaches about it, uplifts people highest brothers and sisters. Mantra, you understand saying been doing great things throughout his life while building his own empire. He standing he sits before Roger Goodell. They announced this deal. They announced the deal. His words weren't the greatest when he sat up there and said, you know what, we're beyond kneeling. But people forget that. Ten seconds earlier he said, I have no problem with anybody nearly. You can do what you want to do. I'm just saying, where do we go from here? Why? Because he's plotting I got thirty one billionaires to deal with, thirty two actually, okay, thirty two billionaires to deal with. I might get an ownership steak in this. I might be the first brother to ever owner NFL team, which at that time, I'm going to position myself to be for the league to be more inclusion every so all of us could get so a lot of us can get paid. And in the meantime, I'm not gonna hoot and holler, but behind the scenes, I'm gonna work to get Colin Kaepernick this trial right. Eric Read comes out calls undespicable. Right, Colin Kaepernick says nothing right. Ray Lewis Hall of Fame linebacker playing for the Baltimore Ravens. He's behind the scenes on the Steve Bashotti for the Baltimore, Ravens a billionaire. It's thinking about break This is before Lamar Jackson, mind you, he's thinking about bringing him on board. Right, Just chill, just chill. What happens. Colin Kaepernick's lady at the time compares Jay ray Lewis and Steve Brashotti to the characters, and Jane Go played by Samuel L. Jackson and Leonardo DiCaprio squashes that opportunity. Right now, we fast forward to a few weeks ago. Why is stephen A on the air so piste off? Because when I was in the process of generating four million dollars in scholarships for underprivileged kids at historically black colleges and universities where I had that event at the University of Delaware State that Magic Johnson and Troy Vincent and them showed up too. Right, We raised four million dollars in scholarships. Four hundred and seventy plus kids got scholarships because of that one day event. Right while I'm promoting that, I go to a radio station to do an interview. I've never seen Colin Kaepernick's lady in my life. I've never spoken to her anything like that. She has somebody come out there. They're incredibly respectful and classy. They tell me what their dismay is over. They felt like I got a few things wrong. I firmly disagree with that, but that's neither here nor there. I sit up there, I look at that in the face, and I said, Okay, here's my number. This is my number. I promise you, from this day forward, I will never utter a word about you a Colin Kaepernick. You don't put right there on my phone. I will read from the damn thing if I have to never have to worry about that again. You have my word. We're cool. She doesn't stop there. What she says is college Kaepernick deserves this. He took made this sacrifice for us. He deserves the opportunity, etcetera, etcetera. Will you help us? Fine? So, who's behind the scenes. It wasn't just Jay Z and the host of other people. It was also me and a slew of other reporters who will remain nameless, that were behind the scenes trying to get this guy the workout. Because you all were saying, nobody called so we were doing this. So yes, when the NBA proposed it, it was shaking the NFL. I'm sorry, it was kind of shaky. We understand that. You know, they could have done it better. They could have gave you more notice, they could have gave you more time to prepare, They could have done a lot of that was That was my major gripe with with the transparency factor into me, the NFL has proven they can't be trusted in a certain in several different Here's why that argument falls on death hears, because you knew that when you wanted the job. Now if we all sitting here talking amongst ourselves and we're cool, were brothers, right, and all of a sudden, I give you a reason to not trust me, that's entirely different. Not only do you not trust them, you suited them. Your father grievance against them, You settled. You're settled. Who settled? Who fathers a grievance against the company settled? And that still says I want a job with you. So of course you didn't trust them. We understood this. So my point is that with all of that going on, right, I'm sitting there going like this, Okay, you said no one called you. I happen to know that jay Z and Rock Nation was leading the call behind the scenes working with the NFL, the owners that have the owners didn't want to do it. They literally said, bump down. We made ten million of revenue already. Okay, you know how much money. I'm a couple year o. More than a year ago. We got two six million a piece for our television deal alone. We got the ratings back. Folks are walking through the turnstiles. We're good. And not only that, we got four top league MVP candidates and all other black quarterbacks. We don't need him. We all have to do this. And I was told jay Z was like, oh, hell no, yes you do. No, I can't do this. We ain't going out like that. I need you to make sure you get his brother opportunity. So what do they do? Everybody? If you notice, you go back and look at the tape of first take. Got my social media guy right there, he's got my evidence. You got people there, three four teams gonna show walk. I was the one that went on the air minimum twenty four showing up. How I get that information? Why would I say that? Think about that? Everybody else said two or three. I went on the air and said, does that not give you an indication? And I'm kind of plugged into this, and so I'm like, look, y'all, it's it's being done. And then not only that, I got a call three days before the workout, after being told by various coaches and what have you. Usually when a free agent has a workout with the team, they don't have more than so y'all talking about five days like it's a small window. We usually only give them one day because if they're ready, they're ready. If they're not, they're not. And everybody was talking about all the next year, next year. No, they wanted to workout because they were gonna give him a job. I was literally told, now, whether it's true or not, guys will never know. And I don't know you know that, but I'm telling you what I was told, quote Colin Kaepnick will have to throw the football into the stands to not have a job in two weeks. Two weeks I went on the air and said, so, I text his camp and said, so, I was completely ignored, completely ignored. Suddenly, no return text, no white got anything to say. And I'm saying, Yo, this is what's going down here about to get a job in the National Football League. Teams showing up, So all of a sudden, you hear this waiver of stuff and or and I'm not decrying anything. I'm not I'm not questioning it. What I'm saying is you can't tell me a condition you faced in that scenario that you're surprised by because if you're already your evident lack of trust for them, but they also have a lack of trust for you, because they're fearful that if a team themselves on their own calls you up but you don't, they don't believe you're good enough to make a team, you're gonna accuse them of something that's gonna have them by themselves in the league, in the mix, in the eye the storm, media wise, so they wanted to use the NFL as cover. Roger Goodell got Roger Grell in the NFL agreed to provide that cover and said they'll call us so the heat wouldn't be on the individual teams. And not only did twenty six different teams show up, Not not only did they show up, but you know what else happened. Most of them were black black officials in the pipeline to be pro personnel guys, gms, etcetera. Etcetera. Because their whole thing is, like most black folks, we agree with Colin Cap. We appreciate the kneeling and the protesting, and those brothers were set by the owners and owners like you make that call, they were coming to town. So my point is when you heard me on the air going off, that's why I was going off. And I'm explaining all of this, and all anybody sees this, I don't agree with Cap or Eric Reid, and he ain't a real brother. He like you know, Uncle Tom and all of this other stuff. And I'm like, really, this is the same dude that's on national television all the time putting my behind on the line addressing issues that we need address. You really really think it's an accident that whether it was Max Keller, know Skip Bayliss or anybody before him, or anybody that you say you think it's an accident these topics come up on first take. Let me ask you all the question everybody's been reading about my contract, everybody's been reading about I'm being the face of ESPN. Do you think these issues will come up or first take as often as they do if I did not say okay, it comes up because I allow it to come. If I said no, don't touch it, it ain't coming up works. So I'm sitting there, like, what do you think is going on here? Do you think? You know with Max and his his racially conscious self and being invited to the ball of aecues which I appreciate his here's the deal, here's the deal. You don't think I know he's gonna receive that kind of reception. You think I don't know that, And I know what time. I know he's going to receive that kind of reception. I know that it's best coming from him in certain situations, rather than the angry black dude who's disgusted at the man continuously trying to keep us down. No here from him. So I'm like, but you see people from our community and it's like you don't see this. I mean, when you when you think about you know, you think about Selma, you think about montgomer Where you think about from an historical perspective, the things that black folks went through in order for us to get to this level, the thing that black folks going through in order to get to this level. Tell me when it was a success, when there wasn't a plan it's always a plan because if you just do something happ has it, people are gonna say it's hap hazard and they're not gonna take it seriously. How do you not know that? How do you not get that? So that's where the questioning of my blackness comes, because I got news for you. I don't give a damn how much money they want to report that I'm making in the news. And by the way, they're wrong about it. Let me tell you something right now, I make a whole hell of a lot more money if I was to sell out that some people try to describe. And that is a fact. It's deep and and that's the one thing, Like I said, I referenced us a few times. People know the on air personality of who you are, just like they knew who they thought Jack and I were, and we were able to, you know, utilize our platform and kind of speak on it. That's what I kind of wanted to do today with you, is just to allow people to see the other side, because people to get a you know, a show, you know, a look at the show and think, I know Stephen AA is all about and and that kind of stuff. At first use to bosament, I just had to understand that people don't know that don't know me, it doesn't really matter what they think about it. But at the same time it's tough because the people that do know you, understand where you're come from. Women, they always agree with what you're saying. But you know, Jack has a great quote. You know, we can disagree but still have respect for each other. And I think too often today it's all the way or nothing. Well, the thing about it is the operative word there is all like for example, you see me on TV, that's me. That's a part of me. It's not all of me, you know, And who shows the entire arsenal? We don't have to. You call what the moment calls. You show what the moment calls for. You know, when when look at you sitting here talking, is that the Matt bonds we still on the court when now you no, Now you I'm trying to tell you right now, your far more moll matter now and off the court, always in the locker room than you were on the court. But you see there see people see you, They see your tats, they look at that, they listen to they watch you on the court, and they think that you're ignorant, and then they go into a locker room and they are blown away by your level of intellect. This brother, Steve always been really real. Is a heart attack? You couldn't. There was no excuse to talk about Stephen Jackson without talking to him, because he was talking. He would give it to you. It's like, what possible. It's like I have nothing to say. I mean, what one mine? Who say to this brother? All I gotta do is go up to them and ask him if I say, you're Steve Man, I'm about to say this on the air. You got something? Hell, you got something to say? And he say, so, guess what? You take the power away from me to just editorialize and just say what I want to say? Nah, not if I'm a decent, respectable professional, Because as a decent, respectable professional, I have an inherent obligation to make sure your voice is just as profound about mine. If not, so when it comes to you, you see, if you speak, then I got nothing to say. And when you see me, listen, man, I told you before I had a situation and and and and John wall is a good guy, and he and I will eventually talk one day or whatever. But last year we had this issue. He was upset because I mentioned a nightclub that he was at right in d C. Fellas, I don't do that, tim Z, didn't. That man right there, that man right there came to me and showed me the video of him at the club, and so I said it. You can't be there thirty six hours before the game, when people already questioned that you in shape. You can't do it. That's all I said. That's all I said. And so all of a sudden, I'm going from city to city and I'm catching cats, and you you know, he like you dimed him out. I didn't know such thing, because if TMZ hadn't reported it, I'd have never mentioned it. I would have just said you better be ready, you better play. I wouldn't have said anything about the club, but sent you on the clubs being seen on video. You know, cats out the back. So what I'm saying is I go to d C to see him. Brother in the training room won't come out. I'm standing at his locker because they said he had a problem with me. I flew to d C from New York in a moment's notice, only forty five minute flight, but damn and I I'm busy. I still did it. I flew to d C, stood in front of the locker. The brother wouldn't come out. And then a week later and said, I just wish somebody would be mad enough to see what they got to see in my face. I got I gotta play ticket that I paid for that shows you know. I did come to say, you know whatever, this face. But what I'm saying is there's numerous cats, including YouTube. I would never have to do that too, not in a million years, if nothing else. Young, Oh, I'm coming out. I'm coming outside, yo, stephen Na, let me do that the media. We're gonna have this conversation where we've done. But you just see all of this stuff. You got cats like they're looking at you like they want to do something to you. I'm a grown man and I'm not about That's right. I'm fifty two years old. I'm not trying to get into no fight or nothing like that. But I am from Holly's Queens. You really really think you just gonna do something to me and nothing's gonna happen to you, like really, so you know, I'm again, I'm not talking. I'm not trying to be violent. That ain't me. I'm not I'm not saying that. It's like exactly respect on both ways. Now we could. You know, I'm not gonna do that. But you really really think I have no friends. I just I'm just left out alone. By the way, I made a lot of money for ESPN. You just think they're just gonna let something. I mean, you really really think that when I walked the streets alone, I really alone, you know, just like you just listen to people sometimes like really you really like you're just don't You're just don'ta do something right? And it's like and then you just you're saying all of that to say for what cause? If you have a problem, you come to me. If I'm wrong, I will admit it, I will apologize, and I will correct the record. If I'm right. I'm staying in my ground. But even as I stay in my ground, I still might let it go and just be like, no, this ain't worth it. Exactly. I ran up to um, y'all see me before I had beef with Big Dog Robinson in the year's past. Man. I ran up to a son, his son that go to State was playing Houston. I saw a son the first thing I said to his son. I walked up to him and I said, yo, man, you see me beefing with your dad. Whatever. Let me tell you two things. Number One, I was wrong. Number Two, I said, it will never happen again. Now I didn't specify. It wasn't that I was wrong about what I felt at the time or anything like that. I was wrong for allowing it to get to the level that it was that it got to because we've both grown men, and you know what, that's your son and he's in the league, and I don't want that young man running around thinking that you know what, me and your father had beef. So guess what you gotta be. No, I'm not that dude, You see what I'm saying. And not only that, I'm I'm a man who's a father, and I'm a proud black man. And I want you not to say that I had any reason to question it, but I want you to continue to love your father and to look at him for the good man that he is. Just because we might have had a beef don't mean that he's a bad guy. And I told him, when I see your father, I'm apologized to him and shake his head because I don't want that kid running around trying to elevate himself in this league and thinking that, you know, you got to worry about somebody like me and what I'm gonna say, because of some some nonsensical beef with your dad, there ain't no beef. Ain't no beef. Big Dog and I had a disagreement. But I'm sure he's a good brother. I know a lot of people to say a good brother. And when I see the man, I'm apologized to him because I don't want his son in this league thinking something like that. That's just the human side. Man. You gotta you know, you see a lot of these cats, man, and it is really a damn shame that they've gotten away from manhood and simply having a discussion and squashing stuff. It's really sad that cats different and it's different. And I put you, I put you up there with Stewart Scott, you know, with Michael Wilbon, the guys that have paid the way for us and man Matt talked about the show. We wanted, We really wanted to come on the show. Not that we talk about a lot of stuff. We want to give you your props to getting your flowers too, because you paid the way for us and a lot people see the things you say and automatically disagree, but they don't understand that you're not one. You're doing a job, but this is your real feelings. This is your real feeling, This is how you feel. And when people get outside their feelings and understand that this is coming from a genuine place. You're not just saying stuff for a check, or you're not just saying stuff just to piss somebody off. This is your life, you know what I'm saying. When people understand that, then they can see a different you. And we've been seeing that. But that's one reason why we wanted you on the show to give you a flower, because we understand. I appreciate what I'm saying. We definite understand, but I definitely man, listen, I got love for both of y'all. Man, I've loved y'all for a long time. Y'all good brothers, man, and y'all real it's hell, And that's what I respect the most. Man, is if they did not that we've ever had any issue here. And I had a disagreement about weed on social man, suposed you're saying for some reason. I mean, people are acting like that's gonna be a problem. I was like, what did he say? I'm like, I don't understand what he said that I'm supposed to be offended by that. And that's why immediately when I said, y'all are not getting that, that's my man. We disagree, and damn it, he was right, he said, I said, he said I was ignorant, right, I was like speaking staying off the show. I mean, that's a that's a hot topic right now. I think as someone who's used it since I was fourteen, Jack is you know, just as long it's something that we really feel navigated us through our career, um and really helped us on and off the court, um, knowing what the consequences were at times if we got caught. But it to me it didn't. They still weren't enough for me to not continue to use it. And you're taking a very strong stance, and I understand what your stances. I'll let you explain about from my understanding, this don't do if it's gonna suck your money up. So going on going on with you, but but but but I'm glad you said. But it's really that simple it's never been Once again, I have to go back to my roots without telling family, friend business. I'm from Holly's Queen. Really really think that I have an issue with people smoking weed. I mean, I've known that if been surrounded by it all my life. It's not an issue. It's an issue when you let it affect your money. That is my issue. I have never getten o meet personally. I've never wanted to do it. The reason why is this my mentality? Is this anything that inebriates me in any way potentially empower somebody else, Which is why I leaned on your statement when you said about my ignorance about it, because I'm like, I'm glad you said that, because I am. I don't pretend to know. I never pretended to how to? How to? Hell? Do I know what I'm saying? To use this? I have been I have covered an NBA game in the past where a dude was wobbling back and forth and literally couldn't stake instructions from Larry Brown because he was high. And that was not Alan Iverson. Okay, let me be very very clear that happened right in front of my face. But I also saw cats that you know you could. I let you can see it, you know, over the whole bit, and it didn't affect them to have Some of them played better with it, so I got it. My flip side to it is that there's a reason I had to bring Snoop Dog on my show because Snoop Dog had to articulate my like, I think I have a strong, you know, command of the English language. I think I speak fluent English, And I'm like, I don't understand why to help people can't understand what I'm saying. I am not saying you shouldn't do it, because you shouldn't do it. I'm saying, if you work in a league where they're telling you it's going to affect your money, as hard as you work to get that money, why give it away for that now? If you wasn't giving it away from that, I'm good with it. If you sat up there with like this, look, man, I make ten million if I do this in my course, be fire undred thousand steven there, I could afford it. I got nothing to say. I got nothing. It's like, okay, okay, this makes sense. But when you are literally wanting and crying about how the league should change their policy, as some players have done while you in the game, just because you can't get your way up right. I usually equate, and I'll bring children into that equation for for an example, all of us the fathers here, just imagine for a second. Well, Daddy, I need you to change this rule because I don't like it. It doesn't work for me. Excuse me, who do you think you are? You have the right to do what the hell you told? Period. This is not a democracy. I don't give a damn what Oprah tells you. It ain't a democracy, Okay, not in this house. You're gonna do what you're supposed to do because you are the child and I am the adult. Well, essentially, that's what a league is saying to you. In a roundabout way, not to disrespect you, but there's a power structure. You volunteered to play. You wasn't drafted. This is what you told when you know the rules, when you're signed the contract. That's what I'm saying, and so if you know the rules, understand you're going to be held accountable for it. I'm just of the mindset, as I said earlier, I'm not just a black man. I'm a brother. I don't have anything against anybody, but I love my brothers man, and my attitude is, if I see you doing anything that I think is detrimental to you, I'm going to let you know. And if I know you personally, then it's gonna be personal and meaning I'm going to approach you personally. If I don't know you, but I have this platform, then I'm gonna use the platform to send that message. If you find yourself in the news, what I will never do is din you out. I'm never telling you and course you your money, but if you allow yourself to get caught in you in the public, now, I'm gonna speak on it. If I saw you, it could be anything. It's weird, it could be anything. If you you've had other issues that you've had to deal with YouTube, then Stephen, they come up to your coming, right, That's right what I said. You see what you do? What you what are you doing? No? No, no, no, no no, say this, do this, do that because we need you back in the league getting your money. Do you gotta do period? And I would want you all to do to say for me, my whole argument in the stance that you know understanding that we really really just feel now being former athletes, that we can kind of be the shield for it. And I'm working with you see a line of cannabis research program. But but but to me, they're pumping is full of opioids to get us back on that field. I mean, we're possessions to them, and we understand it's it's a process and whatever it is. And you know, we're high paid a commodity for them, but they're causing. So they'll pump you full anything, shoot you full towards all I have you on all kinds of procription drugs that are masking one thing, causing a long term effect on the other hand, But then want to penalize you for cannabis. You know, I was in the drug program towards the end of my career and got close with a couple of guys that were running there and they told me, you know, over two hundred guys and you're just for that alone. You know, let me respond to that. That's a very smart, cogent argument, cannot be disputed. Here's your problem. That's their rules, now, their rules that you agreed to bide by. So in other words, if we put if we if we're putting our big boy pants on, and we address the stuff the way that it needs to be addressed. You could make that argument. Hell, take it all the way up to Capitol here for crime out low. There are ways to do it, but it's a slow, grueling process that nobody wants to go through. Totally, totally, totally understand. Here's the problem. It's still their rules and it's their money. You want so at some point in time, while you're making an argument, knowing that they're wrong once again, we could even go and switch the subject and we could go back to capitic or anybody else. Sure they're wrong. What black men, you know, has been in a working environment where we felt the rules were totally fair. Just who that is? Because I never met him. I've never met I have never met guess what, I don't know white people who felt all rules were fair to them. It's the world we live in, and at some point in time, what has measured is your level of discipline in the face of adversity, because that's what separates the men from the boys. For example, y'all are doing this pockets to intelligent brothers that are real You know you're gonna cut through the chase you're gonna get stuff. All of this stuff is true, But you didn't put a camera here and here and here and just sit here. You gotta crew of people around you, right, So why are these people working with you? Because they have faith in you better, not just to make you better, but they have faith in you. They have faith in your ability to perform and that you're going to exercise the discipline that it takes to reach new whites. Look, we can sit up there and talk about first take number one man. They did some rating. They said to me Stephen as the number one talent in sports media. Right, Fine, here's why I'm really getting paid. I'm trustworthy. I'm gonna show up to work and I'm not gonna try to let them down. I'm not gonna be somebody that says, bump y'all. I got my money. I'll do what I want, when I want, how I want, Because remember my dollars a guarantee to you, a wiggle room out of my stuff other than the mortal's clothes, like anybody else as Oh, my mom's a guaranteed. Though that say it if it's true. You know what I'm saying. My my mother's guaranteed. You don't get that without trust. They said, we trust you to do that. So for me to do anything that deviates from that, it's an indictment against me because now I've shown when I'm not trustworthy, and that word is gonna spread and circulate and then people are gonna be real lovely to do business with me because I'm not trustworthy. It's like, how do you not see that? Particularly as black people knowing what disadvantages were operating under. And that's what I'm talking about. You know, y'all asked me to come here and do an interview with y'all. Y'all were waiting for me. I won't wait for y'all because it's y'all show. So guess who was here waiting. Now, imagine what it would have been like if I got here before you. You see what I'm saying, It's like, just just use your logic and understand. This is the world that we're living in and when you talk business with people, it's not just about your ability. It's about your ability to be trusted, and that's what you have to have. And this, to me, whether it's we or anything else, is just the latest increment or the latest example the latest obstacle that's in your path, testing whether or not you can be trusted to handle your business in spite of the circumstances being less than ideal for you know, a lot of players don't understand when they fail drugs this, or where they get caught in the streets, they hurt in the cause. All the work Alps doing one. You know, you said it's a slow grind. It is a slow ground, but we're getting there. He got David Stern and say we should be legal. He got, so it's a slow grind. But when guys failed drug tests or get caught they are they don't stand. They're hurting the cause and it's gonna be longer and longer before is legal. It's all little things. It's all the things like for example, you know, usually I'm suited and you know, y'all can dress like that. Y'all could do that. I can't all the time because of the platform that I have available to me and the people who are watching on the come up, y'all have earned the right to sit here exactly. How y'all you remember this though, the first time, that's right, I saw you that I did one show. In the second time, by saying, you say, put a suit on, put the suit only what I told him, and I put the suit on. I had four year career with ESPAN. Remember that. And by the way, it's not finished. It's not I'm coming for you. That I'm trying to make the point that I'm trying to make is that I didn't tell him to put a suit on because I like a suit. I said, they you you in such a way, they view you in such a way. So when I'm talking to y'all, I'm saying, look, man, I got mine, but it ain't no fun being successful by yourself. You want to preach me. I mean I talked to a whole but of cats, trying to reach back and help the best way I possibly can because I want them to be successful. And I think that. You know, when I'm talking to athletes or whatever and I'm getting on them and you see me going off, if you notice, I'm looking pissed because I want you to succeed. I'm not happy that you struggling. I'm not happy that you feel it. I'm like, wait a minute, do what you're supposed to do. Then venture out. As Denzel once said to me, do what you have to do so you can do what you want to do. That's what it's all about. And that's the and that's the kind of message that I think we all should be preaching collectively before we get out of here. We're growing up in Queens, all the ups and downs Hooper, finding your way, finding your voice, finding who you are. Did you ever think he'd be on the brink of being the highest paid sports personality ever? No, I never thought that. M It's an incredible honor. I don't talk about my money, but I will say I've been taking care of thoroughly. Did you get You got the contract pretty much here. I still got to sign it. But we've agreed. We've agreed, We've reached a verbal agreement. Um, that's why you've seen the news. And I'm incredibly grateful. Um. I know I worked my butt off, I know I've earned it, but they still didn't have to give it, you know. And so you know, for me, You've got a lot of people who get paid and to them they've arrived. My attitude is I've gotten paid. Now let me show you why I get paid what I got paid. But in the meantime, it does elevate some things in your life. And it's not just your quality of life, it's the quality of the impact you're capable of having on people. Because when you read about me and you hear about what I'm doing or what I've achieved, who's not gonna listen to what I have to say. It still motivates. It motivates, eats us, It motivates, it motivates everybody. And so for me, I look at it, I never saw it coming. Not to disdegree, I'm incredibly humbled by it. But in the same breath, I know the journey that I took to get here, and I know that I bust my butt to get here. But it also leaves me humbled because I'm grateful. I'm grate food to you. I'm grate food to you. I'm grate food to Ai, I'm grateful to Kobe, I'm grate food to Shack. I'm great food to a host of professional athletes across the world, across all spectrums of the sports world who always reached back to help me. And so for me, it's like it's it's it's very very special to me because all those people called to say you deserve this, all of them, and so I recognize that, and what it lets me know is don't fade, don't go away from what I did to get myself here. That's right, that's right, the responsibilities having lessons, they've elevator. But it's okay because now, more than ever before, I'm in a position where I'm going to be able to reach back and to give a help in hand because I got more people listening to meeting ever before. And so as a result, it says to me, a right, Steve, you ain't perfect, You make mistakes like everybody else, but the grind that you own. Stay on that grind and always remember how you got here. And more importantly than that, helped those brothers and sisters that want to be helped, you know, and beyond they just black folks, his wife, folks, everybody. But I am partial to my own in regards to the fact that there are a small number of us that have been able to really really do it. So it's not anti anything. It's not anti white, it's not anti Asian, Hispanic, or anything like that. But I'm a black man and so for me, I'm gonna always always want to help my own in the best way that I possibly can, and I think the greatest way to do it is by a really highlighting and identifying the mind fields that can really knock you off whatever pedestal you're aiming to get on. If you don't, the greatest disservice you could do to your own community is to never tell them about the mind fields. Just let them go on and do what they're gonna do. Never say a word. I don't do that. I'm gonna make sure that I let cats know y'all come in, just so you know just what's going on. You need to mind what's going on here. And that's what I'm gonna do to y'all. If I see y'all, y'all doing this podcast and everything, and this ain't the only thing you're gonna be doing because y'all got some special here. Telling you this is special special what y'all got going here, I mean that this is a big time because y'all, y'all work. Y'all really really work together, and it's a beautiful thing to see. But if I see y'all going in the wrong direction, you'll hear from me. I know what you do, like what you're doing, what's up? You gotta talk what's going on? We want to thank you man, uh, like I said Jack mentioned earlier, but we really do appreciate you. Like I said, we don't always agree, but we appreciate the path, the journey. We got to learn a little a lot more today, um, and we look up and inspire to be you now and you here. We worked with someone a couple of weeks ago. They came on setting. It's like I want to be the next stephen A Smith, you know what I mean. So we just just like I said, give your flowers right here. Hats off to you man, keep doing what you're doing and keep on it down. Man, you Boomer assize and and Jo told me to tell you they love your work. Boom a size and he made it a point. World. I don't say as they made the point for me to tell you you do great work. And he appreciate your great guy. He does. He does a great job. He does a lot of philanthropic philanthropic things, and he deserves a lot of credit him and his wonderful family. But I think that that means a lot to me because a couple of times it was like I disagree with Boomer, but I went out of my way to make sure ladies and gentlemen. I disagree with this, Yeah, I got him, you know what I'm saying. And I think that there's more of that that people need to learn to grasp. That's what we talked about when you could agree without being disagree. You know, we don't really disagree about the whole week. We really, I mean, I get it. I totally understand particularly you're right. I was ignorant to it. Okay, you know, but I have my beliefs, you have yours. But y'all always be my brother's man and we and we're good. And guess what iron sharpens iron? If we all agreed with everything, how do we ever learn? We don't elevate that way. You don't elevate that way doesn't work. That's a rat Man Episode eight, New York, Steve and a Man. We can't thank you enough man. Check us out, Showtime Basketball, YouTube are all platforms this stream. I love that all love them. Man, appreciate you a little guy, Thank you too, bas