In this powerful and candid conversation, NBA veteran Keyon Dooling breaks his silence in his first interview since his release. Dooling opens up about the NBA health insurance fraud case that made headlines and shares his personal perspective on the events that unfolded between 2017-2020, including his time in federal prison and the lessons learned during this challenging period.
In an emotional segment, Dooling courageously discusses his mental health journey and advocacy work, sharing his story of healing and resilience after childhood trauma.
Going back to his roots, Dooling takes us through his upbringing in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, sharing untold stories about coming up alongside basketball stars Tracy McGrady and Quentin Richardson. Hear fascinating behind-the-scenes tales from his time with the Miami Heat and Boston Celtics during their championship-contending seasons.
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Mm hmmmm mm hmm.
Welcome back to all the Smoke Miami, our basil. Shout out to the lazy Susan House been blessing us this.
Uh, we just smoke this trip. Shout out Trey. Yes, indeed, Jack.
I think we pride ourselves on making people feel comfortable enough to really express themselves because there's no ind agenda, there's no tricks here. We genuinely care and love our guests, and I think today is a really special opportunity to find out what's going on with with one of our favorite people. This dude has always been standing up since day one. I met him, played against him in college, played with him in the pros, and just one of those.
Real, genuine good people.
But he was also haunted by some ship and it came to a tipping point.
And correct me if I'm wrong. You just got out Monday.
Six days, Bro, it's been six days, six days.
Welcome to the show, my brother.
Yeah you already know.
Let's let's you just told this is your first interviews? Yeah, what I mean, let's walk down what's been going on because a lot of people have kind of read stuff and heard stuff, but a lot of us really love you and really want to know from your mouth are you good?
And what happened?
Oh? Absolutely, Matt? So first off, thank you for having me, you know, you know, just kind of watching you'll growth in this space has been inspiring to me and to most of us, right, you know, because we all inspire and learn from one another.
So you really know it too.
So I know you're not You're not now, but you know I'm good, man, I'm good. I think you know. You know, last two years probably been the most difficult season of life for me. And you know the good thing about seasons is that they don't last forever, right, They change, they grow, they evolve, and it's how you come out of that season, right do you do You get stuck in pity, embarrassment, guilt, shame, fear, whatever could stagnate you. You can get stuck in that, right And this ain't the season of fear, of stagnation. This is the season of redemption for me. This is the season to embrace the experience, the journey, honesty, transparency, because I think, like you know, especially for us as Hoopers, we learned from one another, right, you know, we learned from one another. We learned so much. We teach each other so much. Eddie Jones showed me how to tie my double windsor tie. You know, there's so many guys who you know, show you about work ethic and how to deal with the media, and how to help me your family, and how to be a professional. So this is an opportunity for us to learn, learn from mistakes, learn from adversity, and embrace that shit. Right, don't be afraid of what you go through. You grow through it. Absolutely sure.
A bunch of NBA brothers went down with the health insurance situation. Our brother Glenn Davis just sat down and a few other people. But talk to us about how that came about across your plate and why you chose to participate in it.
Yeah, So, you know, I try to be very clear on the fact that it was just a bad judgment. It was a mistake, It was greed. It was trying to you know, navigate in an the wrong way. You know, I didn't wait on God for opportunities, you know what I'm saying to open up for me.
I saw not even an opportunity.
I won't call it an opportunity, you know, I saw a lick, so to speak, Right, obviously we had the supplemental supplemental Benefits card. You know, if you played long enough, you have a lot of money on that card, and that's supposed to be for you know, medical dental vision.
Not only you, but your family, YEP, and your.
Family, and you know, if you don't use it, you lose it. And I saw it sitting there and I saw, you know, it's a it's a brotherhood league or whatever. And I'm not pointing a finger at anybody, but I got exposed to it. You know, some cash was moving around doing that, and I decided to do it. And man, one of the worst, not one of the worst, the worst decision I made in my entire life.
And you know, I embrace it.
You know, I'm apologetic for it, and you know what I mean, Like, that's why I'm open to speaking about it, right because I don't want anybody else to put themselves in harm's way. I don't want anybody to bite that apple from that tree in any way, shape or form. And so I decided to do it and made that mistake, but I did my time for it. Did eighteen months in federal custody, ten months in six months halfway house, two months home confinement and I'm here right.
I'm over those days, like though, because again and we're going to dig into it, your childhood. We're going to talk about what happened there. But you beat that. Oh you went on to college. You beat college, you went onto the league, and you were at the top of the mountain.
Oh yeah.
So to have that, to have you personally step away from the game and then next thing, you know, a handful of years later, you're in.
Locked up. What is I like?
Well, I mean it's a world wind somewhat, right, because like when you go through things like unhealed trauma, it's stored in your body, right, and when somebody touches the right button, pokes the right button, we could be triggered. And coming from an environment where I come from, I'm from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, the heart of the city, and like, it's a lot of shit that we experienced growing up that we pushed down, right. And when you hooping, man, you're so busy accomplishing and becoming, and there's always these benchmarks that you're trying to achieve that you don't really get the process, the journey. What you've seen, you know, gunshots you know, you know, molestation, you know, poverty. It brings a certain amount of trauma. And I think, like what we're so fortunate about is that, like we were able to channel that shit in the hoops. We was able to go out and put that energy into something positive. And I think we came up in a time where the game was really starting to grow, the AAU seem was starting to grow. We had some transformational players during that time. I played AAU with T Mac and Yourdonnas and you know a lot of guys from you know, the state of Florida. Kobe had just came out. So I was able to channel you know what I mean that into basketball. And you know one thing about me is I was able to dig deeper than most people, you know what I mean. I was super athletic, super quick, but like that dog. It was other people who were super athletic quick could do everything with it, but I could do it longer and harder.
And dwell there.
And so I was able to, you know, channel a lot of that trauma into my hoops. But it's still there because a certain amount of challenges come as you elevate.
And you take on so much, take on so much for.
Your family, for your community, from your homeboys and people who you come up with. There's so many expectations and entitlements that are hard to navigate. And the programming wasn't as good then, you know what I mean, The culture around the game wasn't as good, It wasn't as professional, and you know, like you, you know, you you go through these different phases, right. So when I got indicted, I was coaching. It was right after Game six. I was coaching with the Utah Jazz. I've been around the game of basketball. It's the only thing I know, you know, working for the Players Association, working for the Celtics in the front office, coaching for the Utah Jazz.
I've always been around the game.
And you know when that when that had knock, came that phone call, you know, about four or five in the morning, you know, five calls in a row.
I was like, oh, something's going on.
Looked outside the Feds were there five six cars, you know what I mean, strapped up to the te right, and you know, I just had to go back and you know, tell my wife like little Bay, I'm about to go to jail.
Had there been any previous discussion about anything going on or was this the first time he kind of sprung it on her?
No, I sprung it, Yeah, on it.
Hey, dude, I didn't know I was gonna get indicted, right, So they did a superseding indictment for me. So the first group of guys went through their situation probably a year. You know, he couldn't tell her she wasn't gonna support that. No, No, she wouldn't. She wouldn't. And you know, a lot of times as men, you know, being vulnerable, it's very difficult, you know what I mean.
It's like, you know, I'm here to protect and provide, and.
When you can't do that, when you at the point where you you know, I understand, Bro, I understand.
You know, I understand.
And one of the most difficult things I had to grapple with is that.
Dude, I didn't have to do it.
Mm hmm.
You know what I'm saying. And that that that's where a lot of my internal work came. You know, in sitting down, it's like, Okay, you made a decision that hurt your family. Ultimately, not just your family, bro, you hurt your community, You hurt your friends, you hurt your allies in the basketball space who love you, adore you, respect you, appreciate you. Because I did a lot of good work, a lot of good work, a lot of good work, and mentored a lot of young men, potty trained them.
As I like to say, this small ship situation can't overshadow that though I don't think so. This small situation will not overshadow the good.
Yeah, yeah, and I agree with that, Steve. But when you're in it right.
It gets really silent.
It's really cold, and people who you know you were in relationship with, in friendship with, you know, with bonds that go back twenty years, won't pick up the phone, won't check on your family. It's not a lot of guys who checked up on my wife and my kids wild away, you know. But the ones who did, you know what I mean, and the ones who were supportive, I thank God for them, right, because sometimes you have to go through adversity to see who really.
Fucks with you. Absolutely, you know what I mean.
So I'm so thankful, you know what I mean that, Like, you know, so many of my friends, not so many, but a handful of my friends, my old teammates, some of the guys who I grew up with, and then it's some unlikely people, right, people who you you might know, y'all might have a great relationship, but you ain't know they love you like that. You love me more than some of the people who I, you know, had to take care of. You gave the most too, you know. And so you deal with all those different elements, right, and you try and process them, and you try and learn from them, and you're try and be accountable for them. I think that's when the real change comes, right, it's the accountability part of your mistakes to fall out. And just because guys you know, got silent and cold, I ain't mad at them for that.
I went through the angry phase. You know.
It could be fear associated with that. Some of those guys could have been doing some of the things that kind of got me locked up that they might be intimidated by, right, you know.
And so.
It's just a part of the game. It's a part of the experience. But it's like that anger and the resentment and the the off that I felt, I don't have that anymore.
What did you learn about yourself during this process? Man?
You know what I learned one that I'm not invincible, I'm not Superman.
But they build us up to be that, Yeah, they do.
And not only that, you know, we have to have that internal confidence in ourselves in order to you know, like ascend to the levels.
That we like.
Dude, we played what over? How many years did you play? Fourteen fourteen? I played in thirteen seasons? Right, Like, even within the elite group of the NBA, there's not many people who got that tenn right, you know what I mean. So there's a certain amount of you know, Superman syndrome that we embrace. You know, like, hey, man, I loved love being able to help my family and my friends and inspire and you know what I mean, bring sustenance to them when they needed something and things like that. So you embrace that, right. But you know, with that virtue, with that giving, you know what I mean, when it's not reciprocated, man, it could make us isolate. It can make us go deeper into drinking, smoking, being promiscuous, being angry, making bad decisions, you know what I mean, Because we give so much virtue and then we're not getting reaped, We're not getting anything back, you know what I mean, And so then you start to even question the people around you, like you know what I mean, how they really view you? So and going through this, what did I learned about myself? I learned that I'm a resilient motherfucker. I learned that I stand on business. I don't have no snitching me, no cutting.
Me, you know what I mean.
Like you know, when when the folks came and knocked on my door, you know, I accepted, you know the responsibility that came with it. I wasn't gonna put anybody's family through what me and my family was experienced rules, you know what I mean. I learned also learned that, like you know, the decisions that we make can have.
Such an impact on the people who rely.
On and love you. You know what I mean?
You know what we bring to our families, what we bring to our careers, what we bring to the buildings. Where we bring this energy, this swagger, this confidence, this authenticity. And you let those folks down. Man, that was very difficult for me to grapple with. I lost about thirty pounds during the indictment process.
Really and you.
Already yeah, I'm already as well, you know what I'm saying. But I lost about thirty pounds. I couldn't eat I couldn't sleep. I was embarrassed, you know, like I was concerned for my family because I was facing I was facing some time, you know.
So I was very fortunate to get thirty months.
Was there a part during that, not to cut you off, there a part during that that that clicked, like when when you're in there with her, a part that clicked, Like you said, you went through all these emotions from frustrating to embarrassed. Was it a part where Okay, was it in there when you realize you need to turn the page when you got like what was that?
Yeah?
It was in there.
Yeah, it was in there because you know, like when you're incarcerated, bro, you're own locked down.
A lot, you're on locked down a lot.
You know, my ten months in there, we probably just locked down for three of those months where you necessarily can't go outside. The TV rooms might be locked, you know what I mean, and no commisary, you know what I mean. Like, it's a whole bunch of things that happened in that environment that you know, most people don't know about, they don't understand. Well, I understand it now. That's why I'm so, That's why I want to be a voice, you know for you know, some reform and some accountability, you know, within what goes on with guys who are incarcerated. But something clicked in my writings, you know, as as Hooper's Dog. We got to be routine based. So I got my routine. I jumped on my routine as soon as I got there. You know, the first night, I did not shower. I didn't want to go to the restroom, you know what I mean, I just really wanted to kind of sit there right, But the brus in there wouldn't let that happen, you know what I mean. They came brought me a bag because we was locked down, so they brought me some shoes, brought me some commissary, brought me some clothes and things like that. It's really humbling, brother, It's really humbling. I took a lot of pride in my swag, in my attire old way, you know, and uh, you know, to to you know, to have to wear grays and browns is very humbling.
What was it like in there with obviously the hit where you came from. You came from the NBA. Yeah, you know what I mean, you played with some of the greatest players. You were you were special in your own way, that that helping situations that fuck you up in situations like how was that?
Well, it was twofold with that. I think initially it was difficult because being high profile in that system, you know what I mean a lot of times, you know, it could just bring a certain elements target, Yeah, you can bring. You can bring a certain element from the officers you know, from you know, the inmates alike, right, and everything you.
Do is being watched.
So the way you carry yourself, who you're speaking to, you know what I mean, Like you know, just everything you know, the raid always kind of on me.
But you know what I just did is I just went and did what I know.
Treat people with respect, you know what I mean, Learn the rules of the environment that you're in. Be authentic, be routine based, not rely on anybody for anything, you know what I mean. Get with the right people who you know you can work out with, cook and eat with.
You have to put the past. Did you have to put them palls in?
I did not have to put them palls on nobody.
No, I ain't have to.
I didn't have to throw my knuckles at all, you know, Like, no I saw some ship in there. You know, there was a riot while I was there. You know, I saw, you know, I saw, you know, some stuff happened. You'll be really surprised that, like how quick shit can change in there.
Right, No, I didn't have to throw hands with anybody.
I had a couple disagreements or anything, you know like that, but you know, nothing that I couldn't verbally work out, so you know what I mean, Like my manhood wasn't tested or anything like that, you know. And I ain't no small dude. I'm skinny and small like in our space, but we like we like Netflix, we like Anaanaki, like we ain't like natural humans, we like super huge.
Right, so yeah, no, I didn't have to throw my knuckles.
What I took from all that is is, you know, when I retired too, I went through a little time and you said something that resonated to me. And I heard this more than anything you said. And we I think everybody is guilty of that at some point in their life, when they're thinking that I can get up and just do what I want to do or make something happen. But I had a situation where I had to sit and wait on guard too. So that that shit touched me. Yeah, because I had a time when I retired I had to sit and wait on guard too.
Yeah, and he brought him in my life. Yeah, I felt you on that. Yeah. No, we all have to learn from that, bro, We all have to learn.
The Bible tells me, man that the steps of a good man or ordered by the Lord. Right now, on my vision board, I had that I wanted to be a coach.
It was what I was trying the work to become.
And two a year and a half after, you know, I was, you know, hustling with what I got locked up for coaching, opportunity came right and so you know, it was so anti climatic for me because, like you know, the apex of one of my goals to be able to be around the game and to learn from Quinn Snyder who was my college coach, and he trusted me to hire me. Good dude, and something that I had done in the past, you know what I mean, came to kind of knock me off.
That man. It broke my.
Heart, not only for myself and my family, but Quinn. I let Quenn down. I was my college coach. I was his first pro I love the dude and uh to go down on his watch, you know, really hurt through text. You know, I keep in touch with a few of the guys from my coaching staff. But like man, I got really authentic and good relationships with with some really and good authentic people. So anybody who I didn't speak to or anything like that, it could be two things, you know.
One they couldn't maybe they ain't fuck with me like I thought.
Or two they could be afraid of the stigma associated with what I've gone through, right, you know, the affiliation of somebody who's going down, because that is a real thing when you're feeling. Man, you know, it is like a author and it's like an a on your chest.
It's enough on your chest.
And in our industry that's not common, I know, you know what I mean, Like, it's not common in our industry because like in our industry, you almost have to be flawless at every intersection, and when you get a stain on it, you can be replaced.
And so yeah, man, it's just a part of it.
For the upbringing same Sea making vc Omar in Florida. To paint the.
Picture, well, man, I grew up in the eighties man, and it was, Man, it was so awesome growing up in the eighties. We got a car culture down here. We ride donks, we like, you know, it was the eighties. It was a dope boy central, you know what I mean. A lot of a lot of narcotics was coming.
Through this area.
So it was it was great growing up there in a sense because we had a sense of family since community, you know, you knew somebody who knew your people.
So it still was like that generation. It felt like.
Old school takes a village.
It takes a village.
But you saw the impact of crack and how that impacted the family, like you really saw the change, like pretty quickly. And you know, just growing up down in South Florida. Man, we're big on sports, so you know, basketball, football especially, we play in the street football, you know what I mean.
We you know football during football season.
Basketball during basketball seas. So I grew up man in a time where I think it was very unique and it was fun. It's shaped it shaped me right on my journey. And man, I just I got a soft spot for for a lot of it. I love being from the crib. I love what's happening in Florida. Obviously it's a football state, but we're kind of changing that a little bit.
It's so much talent.
We always had great athletes with dogs, but now, man, you know, with a lot of the skills trainers staying Remy from Remy.
Workouts, there's a lot of guys who are.
Training our athletes now with skill and precision. So I'm excited on, like, you know, with the future holes for Florida's basketball.
We all had our own reasons becoming you know, men at a young age. Me growing up in a single parent home. I think you had your own situation that forced you to be a man at a young age. Can you talk about it?
Yeah? Man, I mean obviously you know, everything on your journey that you experience is an opportunity for growth, right, and they ain't all swet. So you know, when I was a child, I went through sexual abuse, and you know I pushed that down and didn't really deal with that until I was in my early thirties.
You know, the guilt, the fear, you know what I mean.
Also just not enough information about that, right because you know a lot of times you just don't know how to respond. You're seven eight years old and so you know, it forced me to grow up and toughen up a little bit, you know what I mean.
But it also made me start drinking early.
It started made me start smoking early, being promiscuous with.
My body very early.
And it also like made me a little bit more angry, you know what I mean, like if somebody tried me or if you know, somebody touched me inappropriate, like you know, I'm willing to like go all the way there, and so you know, I had to learn and work through that. And you know, it's something that like as a man, it's difficult to talk about, but you know, we do the difficult man. You know, like as at the end of the day, if we don't share these stories and share these experiences, man, we could be neglecting one of the little young roles coming up behind us, you know what I mean. So I think, like we have to we gotta transfer this information good, bad, or indifferent. And I think a lot of times, man, you know, we just don't share the information, the good information enough, the real authentic information enough. And that's why I love you guys' platform, man, because you guys, you guys throw it off the backboard for guys to really be able to come and finish, you know, and I love it. But yeah, that's a part of the journey. I wrote a book about it, and you know, it's a part of my story.
We're saying that and sharing your story. What's some signs that we can look out for for kids in the hood that might be going through that.
Yeah, so few things, you know, you know, if kids are experiencing anxiety, if you see, you know, a certain amount of anger, right if you notice you know, you know, promiscuous behavior, you know, substance, you know, them starting to smoke, maybe too early, and things like that are isolation.
Those are some things.
But like one of the best things, like as men, we could do for our families is have those conversations, you know, sit your boys and your girls down and say, hey, look, this is a healthy touch. This is your private part. Don't let nobody touch this. Don't let nobody do that. If something ever happens, you know, you let me know, you know, And so that communication, because a lot of times that usually happens from somebody close enough to be able to touch you. So a family member, a friend, you know, an older siblings, friend who may you know, So sleepovers and things like that are like out of the question for my kids unless they might have come into my house. And I know that might sound a little bit like unfair, but y'all don't come to my house.
But y'all ain't going to nobody house.
It just is what it is. When did basketball become like for you?
I think basketball became like for me man at probably about four or five years old. I'm the youngest of four kids, and my older brother played college ball at HBCU bethrom Cookman, And you know, I just fell in love with the game, and my dad loved the game. I could dribble the ball really good, really early, Like I could dribble anything. And man, I had an incredible imagination. So like you see this table right here, that was a defender euro step in the table, you know what I mean. You see the top of the door right there, Oh that's a rim. Every time I'm going in the bathroom, I'm dunking, you know. And so I had this imagination for myself, and then I had this incredible work ethic that I wanted to develop that talent. And then my big brother was nice. He was small, but he was nice. So he was like taking me through drills and stuff like that. So I fell in love with the game at a very early age. When I got indicted, man, I thought I lost my love for the game. I was like, Man, you know, the basketball world won't embrace me anymore. All the things that I've done and I've accomplished, you know what I mean, will be minimized. And boy was I wrong, because soon as I got you know, to Coleman, Man, I became the commissioner of the Basketball League.
You know what I mean.
I'm training guys you know, on the court, like literally scheduling like people like want me to train them. So I was like, man, I can't run from this game. It's a part of my DNA. It's what I love. It's my love language. I love this shit, bro. I love this game, man, and I love what it can do for you, what it's allowed us to experience. I been in fourteen countries, you know, I've been to forty four states, you know what I mean. I met some incredible people. I've seen and experienced some amazing things. I've ate some good restaurants.
You know what I mean.
Like, I've seen a lot of shit because of this game, and I love it. And I will never let anybody take that from me, right, I can't do it.
Yeah, I never.
Let that happen. When did you know you was nice? Oh? High school?
It's like I knew I was a good player coming up or whatever. I was a little bit small, But like when I got to like eleventh grade, you know, going into senior year and shit like that, I was like, you know, something was different.
Man.
I used to run in the pool with my shoes on. I would go to the beach and train, you know what I mean. And one day I went to sleep, I was slapping backboard. Next day I woke up, I was putting my arm in the realm, you know what I mean. So it wasn't the day that happened. It was all the work leading into that moment, right, you know what I mean. So like I just always tell youngsters, you know what I mean, It's like, you know, you put the work in, you know, you know you put the work in, and you know, incrementally you can develop that talent. Like you know, I feel like the biggest room in all of our lives is the room for improvement. You know, we can get better at it. So if you're deficient, you know, with your left hand, you can work on it. If your jump shot is broke, you can work on it. You know what I mean. Now, one thing that's hard to teach is that dog. You got to be born with that, you know what I'm saying. Now, I've seen some I've seen something like being around a person like yourself or a person like you are, even like how I played the game, I've helped you, you know, you know, like you able to like indoctrinate or put some dogs in them a little bit, you know, a little bit, but you are who you are.
Yeah, when it comes to that dog.
Yeah, I got a question though, because all three of us had it, and all three of us had somewhat traumatic childhood experiences and traumas, and to be able to focus that energy into fire, like you said, it comes out in different ways.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
I know my my, my, my upbringing fueled a lot of the snappiness me want to slap people, the fights. Yeah, on edge, you know what I mean. Like to be able to turn something negative and use as a chip or fire. That's a unique because not everybody can do that and most of the times and not speculating or making it in a blanket situation. People like that have gone through some real shit. Yeah you know what I mean, Like we don't choose to just be on edge or be on it. They're like, yeah, we were turned into that.
Yeah yeah, I mean, life happens. Shit happens, right, and a lot of it comes out in a lot of different ways. Like going back to it, the game of basketball is so great, right because not only can we channel that energy into our sport, but the resources that we are exposed to early in life, the speakers that we've heard, you know what I mean, the program and that we've got an opportunity to be exposed to. Most people don't get that, so they don't necessarily know what emotional intelligence is. They don't know what their triggers are. There's certain things. They just haven't been exposed to the information enough. So when we have these talks and things like that, the great thing about it is that people watching they can see a piece of themselves and us and like, okay, like damn, maybe I didn't recognize that I snapped because of this. Maybe I got to go back to that childhood. So therapy, man, is therapeutic.
Yeah, I was gonna ask you what, like what age? Because I took like I.
Was at one point in two different types of therapy post retirement.
You know what I mean?
When did you did you realize like, Okay, I thought, as long as I can fight by myself, I need some real help.
Yeah for me.
You know, Look, I didn't feel like I needed therapy until I got triggered and I lost it. And it took about two weeks for me to like even like when I say I lost it, I lost it like I was out of there. I spent four days in a mental institution. You did say you was on the street? Yeah, god man, yeah, so you know I'm in the restroom in Seattle. Why you remember the biggest sist that we used to do when we give up all the stuff, you know, in these different communities. And man, I gotta grab my butt while I was paying bro. And man, when I tell you, when I tell you, like it's like like like I turned into like the hawk, Like it's like all this energy said instant. It's in that moment I lost it, And like as I was trying to calm down, I was like, damn, why did I I lost it so quick? Like and then all these little memories that I had compressed down start popping back up from my childhood and damn, I haven't talked about that.
In a minute. Take your time, bro.
So when I talk about those triggers, like, I.
Want everybody to kind of know those things so you can do preventive things.
So we don't let people take us there.
So we don't so we know we aren't gonna control because like in that moment, you can lose it and your family can suffer, You can hurt yourself and hurt others. You could become a danger to yourself and others. So for us, especially guys like us who've seen a lot of shit, we gotta know them triggers and try and avoid them as much as we can. Ended up in Missou Big twelve hoops. Yeah, how was that being in Missouri?
Man?
Missoo was great, Mancazoo was great. I enjoyed my college experience over there. We did we did with Quin your coach both years. No so, I got an opportunity to play for Norm Steward my first year and then Quinn's night of my second year.
And man, I had some great teammates in Missoo. It was a great little.
College town and had a lot of fun at Missou good recruiting, and they say, how did how did you guys end up in in Missouri? That good recruiting?
You know what I mean?
They call it nils.
Now you played against Jamal Samseley too while he was there.
Yeah.
Man, when Tinsley came in, shout out JT JT J T was spinding the phone booth. So he came in, I ain't know who he was. I think he came from like Juco or something like that. Right, and we went in there like the year before we ran through Iowa State, like, oh, we're running through that, right. They had marcut spires or they had a nice little squad. But then they get this point guard. So me, I'm picking up for a court, I'm turning them and he acting like I'm not even there. He's spinning he inside out in eight, nine, ten times and you look up. He had like ten points Tennessee's tim rebound. He had a triple double in college in the Big twelve, And I'm.
Like, who is who is he?
Man?
Paul was cold, he was tough.
Yeah, you had that one dunk on old boys at Kansas. Yeah, was probably one of the worst right here. That was what do you see when you see young kd right here? What do you think well used to fly?
Yeah, I used to.
I used to get off, get up in the air. They called that a charge.
The dude didn't fall anything like that. But it's Kansas and Lawrence. You know they gonna cheat.
Who is that thirty two? Never been heard from this.
Shanty Johnson or something like that. I don't want to butcher the brothers.
I couldn't believe.
It was like you trying to see me go to the league.
Yeah, yeah, you got any good Quinn Snyder stories?
Yeah, I got.
I mean, like like man Quinn is you know, full of energy, full of life, got a hearder goal, super smart, super talented. But he was young when he coached me in college, so he still was active, right, still couldunk all that, right, But one day was doing a charge drill and you know what I mean, I guess we wasn't doing the drill right, So Quinn put himself in the drill and he had this cat who was like a grad assistant at the time. I think Jason Sutherland, and Jason was a country Midwest like wow, boy right, strong, stocky like just so.
You know, just a thundercat.
So Jason, you know, Quinn's taking positioning himself to take the charge.
So Jason tries to kind of go up soft on. Quinn pushed him out there, running me over, running me over.
So he looked around, he peeled his ears back and he went up, and he went up.
Quinn took the charge.
And that's how you take a when you take a charge, he threw his rolex all that.
Man.
I think Quinn still got back problems to this day.
From that charge to this day, I still think.
Got out there and started taking charge of trying to show people how to tell that.
I think Quenn still stretching his back.
I want to rewind because we didn't ask. But uh t Mac Yeah, Matt, what was the because I'm not mistaken. He's one year older than us, right, yeah, but he kind of he might have been killing out here, but he jumped on the national scene just all of a sudden, and he was going from high school to the pro.
Yeah, man's playing with him like t Max.
From Pope County. So I think he was at Auburndale before he went to Mountain Zion. And you look back at his numbers and he was killing. But it's a small town, so we didn't know who he was. So we met t Mac at Adidas camp and Mack was like, Oh, I'm from Florida. We all playing together. Y'all come watch me play. So we go and we roll up and we go watch team at play.
Now he's unknown, nobody knows who he is at this point, and he's going to be a junior or scene. He's going into his senior year.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
So we go see this guy play man and I had never seen somebody that skill, that athletic, that smooth, that fast with the ball, because the team act was super fast, Like he was tall and he was smooth and all that, but his first step he was real tweaty with it. And so we got to play that summer with a matter of fact, he went milled on somebody in the All Star Game, Like he went milled on this cat in the All Star Game. I saw all the college coaches, NBA scouts lose their professionalism. You know, it was at the rook he cleared the gym. He went milled on somebody at the All Star Game. And so we got to play that that that summer together and to see his development and his focus. He knew what he wanted. He killed the whole summer. He killed the whole summer. I mean, it was just amazing to watch team at Florida fla Florida Flash.
We played, y'all. I don't know where we played, you guys at probably a long beach.
It was as you know, we had a squad man like eleven twelve D one players from that squad Adida, Sony Vicarrol, Elvis Smith, those guys man, and they really had a They really were good for our lives. And at that point, you know what I mean, we really needed that exposure. And you know, Mac was just an incredible talent man. And you know, because we played with Mac, we got more exposure. That's when my ranking and stuff start going up. So we have a we have a unique way of like getting lucky and being around the right people at the right time that helps you get to your destiny.
Two thousand and two Drafts two thousand, excuse me, two thousand, Yeah, I was two thousand and two.
Two thousand and two.
You came out of Yeah, you know, Donald Sterling collects you with the tenth pick in the lost of this Clippers. First of all, what was that experience like being drafted? It's a lottery pick. Yeah, come into La. You're a small town guy, yeah somewhat Yeah, coming to La.
What was that? Man? It was dope.
Man, I didn't get invited to the draft. You know what I'm saying. I didn't get invited to the combine.
So I liked it, like.
Twelve thirteen pre draft workouts and there was some cats ducking me.
During that time. Who was in that draft duck and you talked to.
About I mean, you know, I ain't gonna you know, it was just let's just say I didn't get to work out against everybody. But when I ran in the guys, it was it was you know, I was able to separate myself during that draft process a little bit, but it was doping with the Clippers because man, me Q and D all babies, you know, me Q, D Miles got drafted together.
So we got to experience a lot of firsts together.
And you know, man, it still was some of the most fun I think I've ever had playing basketball. We just weren't good. You know, you can't win with a lot of young players. It was an older league at that point. It was it was a grown man league. It was a grown man league. The resources that the Clippers had were very minimal. They didn't have an environment that would cultivate your talent.
That's kindly put the league. Yeah, practice South Southwest commune to college. You used to have to leave the back doors open so people didn't break in your cars. There was no showers, there's no real lot. You shared the locker room with like regular students. Like, what was that like?
So you get the.
Idea I'm drafted, I'm a lottery pick, I'm going to the NBA. And then the resources are less resources than you had in college.
Yeah, how was that?
It was tough? Man, You didn't feel like you was in the league. You know, you just didn't feel like you was in the league. You couldn't go back to the gym and work on your jumper if you want. You know, I struggled with my shooting early in my career, and I just couldn't put enough extra time. Yeah, it just wasn't The environment wasn't good enough for that amount of young talent, and so it staggered. I feel like I got staggered.
In my development.
And it wasn't until I went to Miami that I that I learned how to be a pro.
We're gonna get back to that, but I want to get because I want to get.
Some more l A Okay, okay, what was l Like? How nice was l O Man? L O was super nice man. Ll O man six eleven can dribble past shoot man? What a nice human being man. L O just you know, l O was just a lot of fun, super charismatic, ship talker, extraordinariy like Llo was that dude man, just a good dude man.
We man.
We barbecued, we fish fried pretty much every day out there.
We kicked it in La.
It was beautiful, Like were you guys imply?
Yeah, we was down in the marina. I don't even think they was still developed. We was down in the marina. And good when I tell you, every day it was a Saturday.
We had a lot of fun.
But l O man, he had a hearter goal, you know what I mean, super talented, super humble, just a just all around good.
Just good man, you know what I mean.
And this in this this generation right here, the things that kind of got Lamar in trouble you know he could smoke free.
Now, yeah, absolutely, you know what I mean? Yeah, Q Rich and D Miles knuckleheady, Yes, what was that like? Because although you guys weren't good, y'all were still popping in the l like absolutely popping in that absolutely.
So I played against Q like probably at twelve. Men, I've known Q Rich since I was twelve years old, you know, one of my best friends on the planet. And man, Q was a dog. And when we would go in the summertimes at U C l A and things like that, like the battles that Q would have with Paul and those guys.
I'm like Q dog, you know me and Cali bro like man, you can give it like Q.
Just Q is like Q.
He trained to go. But Q was super talented. We played USA together, man, we just and those my brothers right there and D MOUs Man young D Mouse. Young D MOUs was a wizard. Man played both ends, you know, played with a motor. Had a high basketball Iq six eleven six eleven probably seven foot four wingspan, could handle the rock, great mid range game, had a passion for playing with a really good passer, and man, it was a lot of fun playing with those guys, man, Q and D is to this day man like especially like through this process.
Man, some guys been all the way, all the way one honey.
I love Q and D. That's my boys. So speaking of Q brings you to my first practice with you guys.
Okay, that's why they're so tight. I walk into gym. I'm tighted with Rico because of that Rico fun in college. I walk into the gym my first NBA practice, y'all. First I get caught up on atten day, my first practice. This man and Q Richard tangled up. Yeah, but KD wasn't doub KD was getting his little jabbed and then getting out the way. Yeah, he had a lot of move but when he would get a couple of jazz, if you wanted to grab it. Yeah, have you ever seen that rock Wiland and Chihua?
Listen, man, listen, man, I am so thankful for everybody who was in that gym because if you would have got his hands.
On I just walk into the gym to my first.
Gimcome to the NBA first man.
But I was like, okay, this is cool. Yeah, man, I was like, all right, cool see.
But the good thing about that man, is like, man, we left that ship on the court. That was cool, and we you know, we talked about it, and you know, we was mad at each other for a little bit, right, But then that next year, man, we get out the Phoenix. Q was playing in Phoenix and Q pulls up and scoops me up.
Man, And you know.
What I mean, Like, men, this is the thing about real authentic friendships and relationships. It's not gonna be all peaches and creamy. Sometimes you go on but head right, but at the end of the day, man, like that is my brother.
And I loved them.
I just hate that's that was your first practice.
I loved it. I'm glad no one really got hurt.
But he was getting a couple of you little, I said, I've seen them knuckles work.
No, I'm just glad I made it out of that one. Say still was in two thousand and three, two thousand and three, Yep, I was there.
I'm actually remember this. I was with the Spurs. Yeah, your whole team came to my house.
Yeah, you came through.
You came through. We've been doing this, we could doing it.
Which I smoking came the whole team, the whole team.
Man, at my house like yesterday.
That was one time that was really that was the one time when you got there the test and the preseason, you was good the rest of the year.
Right yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're still good.
Yeah.
So after that one, you was.
To go, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, you remories a whole on too, bro. Yeah you got you. Yeah, man, you know what I'm saying, my boy.
It was the ultimate host all the smoke before all the smoke, straight up, but that you always had that impact on this though. You know, I always just always had like an incredible impact. You probably impacted more people the most superstars, right, because it's not the superstars who spend time and develop you and correct and show you how to be a real man in the league, right and stand up for yourself and stand on business Like a lot of times those guys have.
A tough job because they're they're isolated. Yeah you know what I mean, they're isolated so much from the common every day. Not saying that you was coming just being different, but you you had such an impact on like the whole culture of the game, and most if you don't have platforms like this, most mainstream media wouldn't even know that.
Yeah, he was great at getting people together. I mean he brought a whole new energy that Golden State team. So she was a dude that got us all hanging out. I mean like we're practicing and going to Jack's house and eating and smoking and watching game film. Yeah, like we wasn't doing that before you got no you know what I mean. So yeah, he definitely does. I was just spreading out. My burns burned out. Now as soon as he got the team, he had crusty lips. I'm looking at a lot. Yeah, the Mexican I've seen it.
Let me go back to l O for a second because I remember, so I started smoking like when I was like twelve years old, and I had.
Never like got high off weed until I smoked California.
Yeah, that's the difference.
And I just remember one night it was me, Lamar and Wheezy Wilcox. My man, my Weezy. We're doing amazing too, you talk. Oh yeah, I talked to her. YEA doing amazing, that's the homie. But I just remember we was in sack and everything was closed, and I remember we called downstairs like, hey man, y'all ain't got no sandwiches or nothing right, y'all, ain't got no sandwiches. So a little time goes by, I could hear everything, like I could feel.
I felt like I could hear my heartbeat.
I could hear you know, first time, get yeah, like it was.
The first time like where you know, like ice cube, like like that's how this.
So we were really hungry. So about twenty minutes later, man, we went back to.
The phone and say, hey, man ya, we ain't got no sandwiches or nothing down there, you know, just like.
Uber yeah read you know, and you know second one of them cities.
Yeah, ship early, so you get that late after game, they.
Got no sandwiches, get nothing. Man, we went to sleep. We smoked good, but we was.
Oh oh, I was like George, I already know like that young that that young Clipper team was crazy, but like there was good camaraderie. Everybody wuck with each other. We and everybody was young. Yeah, they was young.
And you know what, everybody went on to have good careers, right when you put them in the good system and get them in the right environment, get them out.
Of that ship. But that ship was fun though. It was fun for yeah.
Two thousand and five Miami Heat Shack's first year d Wade's second year. You talk about kind of understanding and how to becoming a pro. Yeah, in this environment, tell me what it was to be able to come back home, man and play for it.
There was a lot of pressure, man.
I was on the minimum and everybody wanted to come to the games, and they weren't giving tickets like that. So it was a lot of pressure on You get four around that time, yeah too, Yeah, you're just getting four yeah yeah, yeah. But you know, man, that's the good thing about relationships and the heat culture, right, they understood that. So anytime there was extra tickets or something like that, they would, yeah, they would come through. And you know, teammates, you use to trade tickets and things like that.
But man, it was fun.
Man.
I learned how to be a pro, you know. And I remember Pat Riley.
I wasn't playing initially, and I was kind of pouting, you know what I mean, And I remember having a note to.
Go see Pat.
So I'm like, damn, okay, it's like going to see the principle like this is intimidating. So I go up and see Pat and Pat just tells me how man. Look, you know, like I know, you know you're not playing. It's not going well for you. But the way you're.
Handling it, it's not right. You know what I mean?
Your body language in there, you looking disconnected, said, man, don't let coach band gun you know, see you pouting. Let them see you watching film, Let them see you on the court early, let them see you cheering. Start sitting up closer by the bench so you can hear the game plan. I guarantee you gonna get your opportunity. And you got to be ready for And that happened.
Man.
You know, as a as a professional, they develop you as a basketball player. They develop you and they push you to the brink of you know, asking yourself, am I doing the right thing?
Do I really love this? Were on the track doing what eight?
Uh?
We had to do six?
It's two times around, that's the eight hundred had six eight hundreds for time and pass it. You would have to do it again, right, So I just remember like questioning like, am I.
Am I doing the right thing? Here? With my life? Is this? What life is?
The humidity in South Florida?
I gotta do eight eight? And the guys who are part of the culture, they just they d Wade's out there, Eddie Jones out there. Rosue used to run like a dear Rossue. Butler, you donas. You know, nobody without work, you donas. But playing for the heat Man changed my life, It really did. Man, Like you know, Spo was our position coach, and you just knew he had superstar written all over him.
A lot of.
People don't like staying van Gundy. He's one of my favorite coaches of.
Now. It's tough.
He's tough as a coach, but.
Man, what a good man.
You know you could be honest with them, transparent with him, and he's gonna coach you. I remember he wrote in the huddle one time d Wade was mad at him, so he drew a star on the on the whiteboard and tapped a star like twenty times. He said, here it is your star, right, your star, And now I can't coach him. You're starting, I can't coach you. So Stan had smoke for everybody. It's gonna call you out. He accountable and you know, to this day one of my favorite Him and Doc are probably my favorite coaches that I played for.
Young d Wade. Yeah, what was that like?
It was like he was Dwayne Wade one day and he was the Flash the next.
I mean, you know.
What a talent like you know what I mean, like mean as a Rattle State, strong as a Knox, you know, so much agility, so much poise, and you would just see him and spoke crafting on his footwork. You know, Spoe was like one of the best like developmental coaches I've ever seen, Like as far as skilled development, Spoe was so cold at developing talent, right. I know, people you know see him as this exitent of the old guy and all that, but man like the way that he could teach the game and break it down and he just Wade was just crafting. Wave was amazing, and he was fun. He was hard working, he was humble, he was mean, he was tough. I like playing with them more than like playing against it.
Yeah, d Wade always made Shaq obviously coming off a Laker team where they had a lot of success and now he's there. I know, he was a big joker. Did that ship go off well? And did jokes fly in Miami the wayther.
Well not maybe not with Pat, but Shack is maybe and Shaq man, you know, Shaq could talk that ship. Yeah, Shaq was man just a great teammate, you know what I mean, like a larger in life figure that you know, had a hearder goal. But Shaq taught me a very important lesson because I used to talk big ship like I'm like, what you're wearing? Like you know what I mean, how you look like, whatever your flaw is, I was gonna point it out and I was gonna bring it up to you, to you in a very comedic way.
I would talk hell of ship. And one day.
Shaq can't want to hit that ship and he just got tired.
God damn it, I can't time to ship.
We're on the plane.
You. I can't stand this ship.
I'm tired of this ship.
You fucking thoughts in there.
I said, Oh, I ain't even I ain't even messing.
I said I had to.
I had to reevaluate, like you know, going hard on people. After that, I was like you.
D was like, man a man, I don't like that ship. Man, I'm on the minimum to.
Man kind of ship.
Know what a team? Man? Yeah? Was j will there with you? No, I was there the year before. They want it all.
So it was like Damon Jones and Eddie Jones and d Wade, Shaq, your donnas. Like, we had a lot of vet Steve Smith, Christian Lakener.
We talked about that on the way here.
You you want of the only guys in the NBA to master the Steve Smith move.
That's you know, yeah, that's my vet.
Oh yeah, Smithy Smithy man.
Like see, growing up in South Florida, we got to see the Heat games and so like when Steve Smith came in the game, you know down here, like, yeah, you got to see him play. And he had this little half spin and uh he hit me with it one time. He was like, oh, young fella. He told me, I used to do it a little too fast.
I'm like, dude, I ain't six eight. I gotta I gotta be twitchy, you know what I mean.
But Steve is a mentor, a friend, you know, just set a good example for us.
Just a really really good man.
That's just a mentor too overall, just a great man.
He taught me to part the post up as a guard. Okay, that's why I learned how to post up a.
Sure sure, Yeah, we ain't want to see you facing up that. They don't even they don't even pivot. You don't even play out the triple thread anymore. You don't even get logo posted.
Make it hard. It's tough. Now, it's a whole different ball game.
You ended up in the Celtis in twenty twelve, Paul Pierce kg rondo.
How was that? Man? It was?
It was amazing man, playing with the Celtics. You know, obviously the Celtics is a prestigious organization. It's something about you know what I mean, when you go in that arena, you know what I mean, that's different and unique, and when you go to other arenas, you know, Celtics fans are everywhere. Yeah, But man, KG, I wish I would have got to play with him earlier because like, he unlocked something in you like nobody else. Man, he was a sensey, you know what I mean, as far as giving himself to the game. He did the same thing the same way, the same time, every game, every practice, and he would get himself ready to play like no other.
He's a perfectionist, you know what I mean.
From the way he watched Family Guy before the game before, the way you know he go get in the steam room before the game, the way he you know, blessed the environment before he get on the court like he was systematically. He would do the same thing the same way every day. And man, that was just a great experience. I love playing with the Celtics. His My favorite experience in basketball was playing with the Celtics. It was a real brotherhood. It was like no other.
That year, you got to see the King in Wrath on game six, Yeah, yeah, can you walk walk us through that?
I mean, I try and forget about it, but you know it's the I know, right, It's like he was like hypnotized almost like you know what I mean, but.
Look at his face right there, you know, he looked.
Right there, you know, you know, and it was like, man, man Ticket was doing everything to try and get him off his game every time he walked, like you know, bumping into him out like everything Ticket could do, and man, we would just go back and just like we we couldn't.
We couldn't do nothing. We couldn't. We just couldn't do nothing with him.
But like you have, like great players have to have those kind of moments, right, you know what I mean, because it's something different about them, Like because all of us are talented, we can all run, jump, shoot whatever, but like the super superstars. They have another level of getting to the zone and then being able to dwell there and he's done it for so long. Man, that was a long week. We thought we was going to the finals. I mean, that was an opportunity to close them out. We had been, you know, playing very well. We had them game six, we were three to two, and the man like just had a legacy game.
Yeah, he had a legacy game.
I know that was a fun team. You were calling any fun moments with that squad?
I mean, you know, like.
Every family, every family you know, has its fuge, right, and there was some tension internally, you know with some of the guys. But I don't know, man, I think you know, I think some of those stories it's meant for them.
To tell you know what I mean. I respect that, but let's just say you know what I mean.
You know Ray and Rondo, you know what I mean, Like they they had great feel for each other on the court, but like just from a personality standpoint, they just kind of I.
Wouldn't talk about I'm talking about like fun stories, Okay, going down like club shiit isn't it or any of the stuff with Paul, Like like we work with them.
We burnt out there.
Yeah, we had we had some nights, you know what I mean, We had some nights.
Like but.
That was the lockout year, so we was playing back to back to backs, you know what I mean, Like and so like a big part of us, you know, getting together was like going out to hook a lounge, going to eat, you know what I mean, you know, getting together at each other's cribs and ship like that. But like, no, no crazy story. Okay, you got to fight with rayam Man, I ain't get in all these fights, like y'all saying, man, no, me and Ray, Yeah, me and Ray. Uh we got tangled up, you know like back in our days we used to compete.
Yeah, like you know, the game is physical, so.
It was a lot of o.
Nah Nah, that wasn't That wasn't average though, y'all.
Yeah you dumped it. Well, Ray hit me with the elbow.
You're trying to stop on the string, trying to stop on that.
Yeah, you lock on that shoulder and you're chasing coming on three staggers, right, and he stopped and he hit me with that to get up. Yeah, and then you know it just spilled over into the crowd, you know, I got five games, probably because I.
Ran the locker room.
Are you the finishing Yeah, you know, I mean you're doing nice one too.
It was quick too, but they grabbed plastic.
Man, I know he got you back, But it was really Stacey fault though that we got in the fight because they on the way there, Yeah, the way there, you know, hit him in the face, right, But it wasn't even on.
Purpose, Store, It wasn't on purpose. No, it wasn't just clipped him right. Yeah.
Yeah, so Stacey hit him, but you know he hit me. It's like any meaning money you Stacey.
The first one over there too, The first one over there.
Sta stage pulled Ray right, Stace pulled, he pulled and put him in the full next and be like, as.
So I go to the locker room, I'm cussing theirs out.
I'm like, bro, don't y'all never let nobody grab me if I'm fighting, somebody grabbed.
Them, like, don't grab me. Yeah, that's how you got that's that's that's long. That's how you get teed off. They got your arms, you man, I did run to the bag.
Are you trying to get them after here?
You don't grab me? What you don't grab me for something happened. That's that.
That's that untreated trauma.
That's what that was right there.
Uh, Ship, you opened up on our instrumental Doc Rivers and Danny A's work when you were value of your mental health demons.
Can you shot some of those stories? Yeah?
Man, I mean I spoke about it earlier. I spent four days in the mental institution. And you know, here's the thing about like this game behind the game, right, That's why what you guys do is so important because it's these what what people see and then what really happens.
Right.
Doc Rivers came to see me every day while I was in the mental institution. Every single morning, Doctor, I'm.
Just coming leave alone.
I'll be here for you know, Doc and you know that little one bowl, you know, he was there every day to come and see me. Simultaneously, Danny was going to our house in Wellesley to check on my family. And so when you talk about what makes organizations different, it's not just the aesthetics, it's the infrastructure.
It's the people, you.
Know what I mean that create the heat culture or the Celtics mantras in Stigma and Danny Ainge and Doc rivers, you know, or two of the best men our game has ever seen.
I love to hear it. What do the next few years look like for you? Oh man?
Getting back into the thing I got into.
Get back to it. We might have to work for you over here if you want to come fuck with us.
Man, I need that work.
Man.
You know, like I have some gifts, right, you know what I mean?
Like I've always had a gift to speak, to communicate, to inspire, to motivate, and so I'm gonna stay true to that. Doing a documentary on this experience, because I think it's best we tell our own stories and control the narrative, but like in an authentic way. And so you know, I'm gonna push out the documentary, and you know, me and Trevor been, you know, kind of having some conversations about some things that we can do.
But I'm gonna be around the game one way or another. You know.
I thank God for my buddy staying Remy from Remy workouts because while I was at the halfway House, I got to work on the court with NBA players every day and work with the youth every day. And I know there's a certain rhythm and cadence that I'm able to you know, unlock in in in hoopers, and then I think there's a certain wisdom from our experience that I'm able to.
Help them avoid a lot of things.
And so the next few years for me, man, I'm really gonna focus on, you know, creating content, pushing out this docuseriy, contributing to the game of basketball, right and in a number of different ways, right, But more so than anything with that as well, it's like the prison reform, you know what I mean. And it's not like just a reform. It's just like when I was down, we had no speakers that looked like me that came through, right, And I think there's a demographic in the lot of people that look like you in there that's being ignored somewhat neglected, you know. And I say that in the nicest way possible and isolated. And so, you know, because I went through this experience, I'm forever feeling right, and I have a platform and I have a voice to bring up, you know, some of the things that go on, so you can help, you.
Know, provoke change in a positive way.
It's not a judgment thing because everything was not bad there, right, You know everything was not bad, but there's room for improvement in that system. And so yeah, man, I'm just I'm locked in for that, man, and I'm here for it, and I'm.
Looking forward to the next phase of life.
And like at the end of the day, Matt, I'm gonna stand ten toes down. I'm not the same me. I'm a different version of me right now because I don't give a fuck as much as I used to as far as how people view me or or what you know, somebody's image of me is I can't care about because I know who I am now and I know what I can endure, right and I also know what I can have to avoid on a.
Journey to find that person. Yes, I know what about Uh? What about what about Big Three?
Oh?
So that's the question I had to ask my birthday. Look like, great ship.
I'm still dunking. I'm still dunking.
If you thinking about coming back in the game, the Big Thing would love to have you.
Okay, Well, I received that and we'll talk about okay that.
I need a little cut it out, sir, well, quick hitters before we get you out of your one piece of advice you would give your younger self.
The piece of advice that I would give my younger self.
Is wow. I think I would have got my.
Relationship with the Lord better right and tried to follow the teachings of my faith a little bit more. I wish I would have been honest about, you know, some of the things that I experienced, so that I could have dealt with them along the way.
A lot of times when you don't deal with things along the.
Way, other habits and things come because you're masking and you're.
Hurting and you're avoiding certain things.
And so I would have done my work earlier, and I would have tried more to you know what I'm saying, get be in alignment with my faith.
Kind of off script.
But the woman behind you, uh huh, they held you down through all this, huh absolutely?
What about her?
Man?
You know what, man, Tash, go back.
We got together when we were sixteen years old, and you know, we got four beautiful kids together, and every step of the way she's been, you know, right here for me. And the good thing about like, you know, relationships and things like that. Man, Hey, they're not always perfect. They're not always peaches and cream. You're gonna have highs and lows, Lord knows, I made a shitload of mistakes all the way right, and you know, like through it all, you know what I mean, through it all the ups, the downs, the trials, the tribulations, and because we've been together so long, it's really all we know. And so like in this process, there was a time where we had to take some space.
And evaluate, Hey, it's just where we want to be.
Like we've been doing this thing for twenty plus years, where all each other knows it's a lot going on right now. And I couldn't do anything but respect that part, right because like at the end of the day, you have to make your bed, you have to sleep in it. But man, God is so good man. And love is kind, love is patient, love is forgiveness, and you know, we found it in our hearts to you know, say that it's better for us to be together. We better together. Our kids are stronger when we're together, you know what I mean. We still love each other like we're youngsters. When I look at my babe, I look at her and I see you know myself, I see my children, different versions of my children's face in her, and I just love her.
Man, that's my girl.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, they love it. I love it. I love it.
Go ahead, Jack one album on repeat right now that I can't stop with Dad, k Dot not enough, Like I can't stop man like Dot like Dot, don't like Dot, don't discipline like Kendrick Dogg.
It's like, man, it's like, I don't know, man. It's something about the way that he raps in the content that he creates that I feel in my spirit. It's like like like, so I got that.
I got that Dot on repeat right now?
Five dinner guests dead, are alive? You plus five at the dinner table. Food, great environment, great who you're sitting around that table with.
Man.
You know what, man, one of my favorite people, if not my favorite man in history, you know, besides Jesus, Right, it's my pops.
And I really miss my dad.
And if I could sit down and have dinner with my pops, we'll talk plenty of ship. Right, And so I missed my dad. I would love to sit down with him. My wife always invited to my table, so I ain't gonna never, you know, have a table and she can't be at it. But man, you know, like some of my favorite people. Man, it's like I love Dion Sanders. Yeah, man, like you know Deon Sanders, is.
You got a chance? No, no, got got? I would be real cool.
Yeah, is such an inspiration. I would have to say, you know, Malcolm X brother, but that man, you know, just reading his just reading some of his books and hearing some of his speeches, and you know, his his command of the language and his toughness in his s nenness unbelievable. And you know, last, but not least, I'll say, you know President Obama, you know what I mean, Like, you know, President Obama is somebody I always felt like if you can, you know, sit at a table with him, you know what I mean. He's like one of the few people who make.
Everybody kind of blush.
It's like, damn, that's Baraccover.
So those would be like the people would like to sit down.
With best Florida raised athlete of all time.
Oh that's very easy, Prime, Yeah, no question.
It ain't even seen them Windmill like you go back and see him in those dogs. Yeah, it's like the greatest athlete maybe of all time.
Jackson. Yeah, man, you know, like Prime, if.
It was one guess that you would like to see on all the smoke, who would it be, But you have to help us get your answer on the show.
Okay, all right, man, you guys do such great work and y'all like the environment is so relaxing. Who would I love to see come on this show. Have y'all had mellow yet?
Yeah? I've had mellow guaranteed.
Okay, Yeah, let me think.
You that where's wzy Att?
Yeah? Let me man.
Most people don't know this man. Chris Wilcox is an amazing businessman.
I want to let him the reservation stuff he got.
Yeah, Man, we'll do shout out spoon to spoon with him.
Yeah, but yeah, no, Wheelcox would be somebody you know, obviously.
A national champion, played a long time, went.
Through heart issues and so you know he had had to face you know, morality, you know, in a sense. But yeah, Chris will also be somebody pretty cool that y'all could deal with.
The old school I had in the bet he bought it from. Did he tricked it out?
Yeah? He looked good. Hey man, we love you, man, I love man.
I love you too, Man, I always will always.
I feel like the best hag you have to come for you you've always been and the reason why you've messed up in the past, and even before we started talking, I'm like, nah, you tell your side because you've always been stand up and your heart has always been in the right place. You just slipped up a few times to be able to address the childhood trauma and everything that came from it and have that humility to accept responsibility and better yourself. The doors are going to open back up and in a matter of time, so I'm glad you was able to fun with.
Thank you so much for having me. Man All the Smoke.
Next time I come on All the Smoke, I should be a probation.
You can catch this on All Smoke Production YouTube and the Draft Cans Network.
We'll see y'all next time.
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