M hm hm. Welcome back to another edition all the Smoke. Jack. We got a good one today, one of the best shows, if not the best show on TV. Man uh inside of the NBA. We got our brother Kenney Smith here today. Yes, sir, how are you? I mean, this is the best time of the year. I know you're back and forth shooting in Atlanta. You're in l A right now. It's the best time, like for a fan, right for a fane. That grind when I get there, I'm fine, but you know, going back and forth. I'm in l A as you know, uh, going back and forth to a and that's a grime. But I mean, this is the best time of year in terms of watching it. I've been a fan of basketball before I was even good at it. I was always a fan. I was a dude who like if you you put up a poster and then you just saw it like an arm and I'm like, oh, that's I can tell everything. So that Yeah, this is a great time. How is it balancing life? Obviously you're au dad as well. You have a whole family here in l A. But you're constantly moving forward your job. You always do what you want, like you could always make time for what you want to Like, it's never doesn't feel heavy until it's something you don't want to do, Like, you know, I gotta get back to a you practice. I want to do that, so that don't feel heavy. You tell me I have to be at a production meeting at seven. I'm like, man, that's a long ass Like yeah, so you always you know, family, friends, relationships, It's like, it's never heavy when you want to do it. For really, you've been in a few movies. You've got an up and coming movie called Hustle with Adam Sandler put a disclaim out. First of all, I've always been in movies as myself, Like I come in, Oh, there's Kitty Spif and he says this, this is the first time I'm in a movie, and uh, the Hustle is like the movie Hustle is a different animal from me because I never had aspiration to be an actor. I know what I saw the episode where you had to act. I never So I got a call from Adam and me and him were cool. We don't know each other where we tech text and call. Now we do, but then at that time we didn't. And he says that, man, I got this movie. It's a it's a drama t and uh, I got a part from you. It's a basketball movie. I think you'd be good in it. I'm like, I just send a script over. In my mind, I'm like, He's like, it's in the pandemic. You're gonna have to spend like ten days and before you quarantine and that. Send it over. So I'm looking through the script. I see guys in it. I called him back. I'm like, I don't see my name in it. He's like, now you're Leon. I'm like, Leon, got thirty two pages a dialogue. Bro, I've never acted. And I was like, I'm no. He's like, no, you'd be great at it. I know you'll be good. Just I'll get So I had to acting coach Jack like a whole and so I told him right there, I said, hold on, let me think about it, because I know how serious he takes this, like he's a pro at this, like I'm not a pro at it. And I knew it was going to take a real commitment because I played his best friend in the movie. So I was like, I called back. I talked to my my daughters there there in the business, they act and they're they're actors, and they were like, you gotta do it. You just can't people die for this part. And I was like, I call him back. I was like, all right, I want to do it, but I gotta I need who's the acting coach. I was doing two three hours a day. She they scheduled me for like an hour, and I always told him to do double because I just wanted to be on point. I just said I didn't want it to feel like I was like the only one on sat that. You know, it's Queen the Tiefer's in the movie. You know, it's just real actors like that, people who have done it. So I just wanted to be ready. Did you enjoy it? It was different. I did enjoy it, hundred percent. Enjoyed it. Uh you know. We shot in Majorca, Spain, shot at Philly, shot in New York, you know, all over there. It was just crazy. But it's like a vulnerability that I didn't know that you needed. Like like now, like when we're talking, you look away, you kind of the cameraman here, you look over here, and but when you're acting, you just talk to the person you never lose eye contact with. And so I never talked to anybody where I don't lose eye contact them for a minute. So that was like a little uncomfortable. So I had to break out of that. I do it now, it doesn't even bother I'm not do it now. I can look at people with but it takes a different vulnerability to do stuff like that. And my first scene was like a you know, they don't shoot in order, So my first seed is like, he's almost crying and I gotta I was like, and the girls are dancing over the sideline, like, what's happened to that? Se? So Hustle comes out soon on Netflix. You guys enjoy this teaser. Yeah, this moments, man, I saw it. That wasn't him, that wasn't even close to him. It's my fault. I rushed this whole thing. Remember our freshman year when we were playing a gaza and they put John Stockton on me. You're like, watch out for this guy, and I was like, does nobody look like a damn insurance salesman gonna bust my ass? Mad way through the second half two twenty assists, None of y'all would look at me. Remember that? Of course I remember that. Do you ever remember me playing like that again. No, because I never want to feel like feeling again. So tonight is a good thing. And nothing was good about that, believe me. Also got a book coming up. Talk to us about that. It happened. Actually, I used to say I want to write a book, and I never I always said I could write a good article, I can't write a book like and then uh, you know, the whole social justice thing happened. And when I walked off the set, I was sitting on you know, with when Floyd happened, and I was sitting on there, and I'm looking at what's going on, and the players are like walking out and they said they're not gonna play, and and I went into I went into to work that day and I was it was on my mind. It wasn't like if it's on everybody's heart in their mind. And I'm walking through and I'm like guy at the gate, Hey Kenny, how you doing? Guy who comes and greets me to let me in, Hey Kenny, the girl does make up. Hey we're gonna I said, damn, everything is the same, like none to happen, so I can't be here today. So I just thought I was like I can't just be a talking head on TV, you know, and just come out like and this. I'm like, I gotta join the March dudes of March. I was like, I'm gonna join the players. I'm not, I can't be here. And I walked off and from then my phone rang like a week later. It's like, you need to write a book or why you did it, how you did and how you got there. And then all of the things I started started flushing out of me. I was like, that's why I did it. I was like, oh, when I heard my Bill Russell told me this back in when I was in my coach and but I was like, that's and then so the book is about and I wrote it kind of to my kids in a sense. It's to all the people I met over my life that were great and what I took from them and I wish I had known and now at five, if I know now at so I'm giving it to everybody, like from Bill Russell, Michael Jordan's to Dean Smith too. Uh a good friend of mine. Guy Oh Serry who who's biggest guy in entertainment, slept on my couch when he was seventeen. Uh, guy named David Kohler. Kohler is the plumbingu He was a we went to college, well, he went to Duke, I went to I was at Chapel Hill and he stayed with me the summer. I didn't know this guy from him and he's just got one of the biggest plumbing companies. And what's just like the people I ran into. I'm like, damn, you know, so it's just all the things I took from them. Yeah, born and raising Queens NYC. Talk about queens and what it was like in the seven is growing up? Oh, man, queens more eighties? Brother, I know, you know, seventies and eighties. Man bottom on seven saying I was going to seven. Say let's say less. But New York is like it's basketball man, Like oh, people always say, like the New York players have New York had the best. We have that l a Chicago and maybe used to be that way back in your back in your childhood. Know what the best players of California now best players. I'm telling you I had the best dribblers for a long time. They have the motherckers. Couldn't hear the house of day was in the kid listening ball I never lost. When I was on the I would I went seventy two and one and like four years, like I love the one game and I'm the only one myself at olden polities who made it Like we had What I always say about New York, I was like, we don't have the best players never, but we always have the guys who shouldn't make it making. We have those guys because they there's an understanding and a love for the game that's different. Meaning I always said, guys from other cities when we used to go places like, oh, he scored thirty and be like, that's not the first question we asked, Like the first question we always asked is did you win? The second question we always asked, how did you guard your man? Did your guy your ask Like that's a that's always the first two questions. So when guys when I went to other places, they'd be like, I had thirty today, So they always had a precedence on scoring. Where guys I grew up with, you know, or even from our every like Ray for Austin, Let's say, like he could dominate the game without scoring, you know, So we never That's why guys I thought made it who shouldn't make it. Morm Jackson, can't jump, can't shoot, show us help played twenty years in the league and let the NBA history and scoring those that's those are the guys that right, those are the guys guys who they should be playing d one they make it, y'all guys in l A, y'all got dudes. Y'all got them dudes like you got you know when you you got the dudes that like where are you? You got you some people out that way question we had, We had the mode. We had six guys in the Ad Hobson game from Sexy. They're they're just guys who like they can't miss prospects. We didn't we didn't have the can't miss prospects all the time, but we had those guys who just shouldn't make it. Yeah, like just like why is he in the league? You know? But my brother, honestly was a big part of that culture. My brother Vince, he brought an AU team when they think they were eight nine years old, and it was ray for Speedy Claxton, Lamar, Eric was Eric Barley, like all of these dudes like they were all on this church. No no, but he this is we were called See. He coached them from third grade and then he would send them to those au teams. But from third grade and night every day they were all in my house like all these kids. I'm like, where do you find these kids like this? And he's like, Kenny, I always find the kids. But if I wanted more than they do, I never work him out. And he had a runabout maybe twenty guys that made the league. The same kids you're talking about, though, Kenny was. We was fearing them when we was high school. The church was Lamar Old him Elm brand On. That's the older ones once they got older. But if you say, well, you asked Lamar like who taught you how to play? Him? Vincent Smith, you asked sham Guard who taught me how to play? He's like, oh, Kenny Smith brother? You who taught me how to play? Like Kenny Smith brother? Like he was Kenny Anderson. You asked them who told him hoout to play like? And you think about this that you set the top ball handlers ever in the history of basketball. They go sham Ray, Kenny Anderson. They all played for my brothers. That's it's a similar side. And Lamar it is really just a bigger versions because they all play, they all have that. That's that's my brother. He had that. He had that God Mighta's touch. They used to call him Mighty stuff one. It was crazy. One time I'm sitting there, I'm going on the airport and I had, you know, I'm going to the airport and Limo rolls down and it's it's ditty. He's like, yo, Kenny Man. I'm like that, what's up? What's up? Puff? Because he's puffed then he wasn't. It's like, what's up? Puff? He's like, yo, your brother is a starmaker. Like right, I was like, I gotta meet him. I'm like, damn music. He's like, he's like he's the star maker. That was when did basketball coming in next? For you? Always like we grew up like my household looked like we were. We were listening to This is before cable and all that and where you can see every game on TV. We had the radio on. We listen to Marv Albert Like I would be like, you know, Fraser brings the ball across the mid car line. He passes over a role. But I grew up with Marv Albert, so he brought the texture of the game just through radio, and so we listened to games. My pops. I cried when the Knicks lost. I'll be sitting at home crying. Like I said, I had everybody posted. I'd wait outside of Madison Square Garden get autographs. You know, my personal autograph. Remember Bob Love from the Bulls. He was the first guy to stop give me an autographs all all the other guys. Trash Love was real, the bean, butter Bean Love. He was good. It was real small. He kind of played like you. That's crazy, wasn't trash played like that? He played like me. He was played like Bob. He was like a six eight. He was one of sixt eight slim handle the Rocks. Shoot. Yeah, he played like you actually got out butter Bean. So but yeah, we were a basketball family, so we love the sport. My mom rest of souls. She was a sports fan. I called my mom in the league, right, So, hey, what are you doing that? Damn Derek j Ain't hitting Dan like like just like she was that type of bomb. So we always loved sports going in our house. So you got a Showtime documentary coming point, guys, can you talk about that? Yeah, it's the um, you know all all the point Guards that came out of New York and um, you know actually doing it with um Kevin Durant's company produced it and brought and asked me to be part of it. I was like sure, So I kind of filled in some gaps and holes. Who the interview Once they start, like I said, realize the connection that they all have played on my a and with my brother, it's like they're like, oh, can we get how do we I was like, oh, you gotta interview him. He's like, yeah, he played and they kept saying my name, saying yeah, Kenny's brother Kenny. It was like, so the connection was like you gotta ep it and like make sure we're getting a story correct. But New York point Guards is like a secret. Yeah, yeah, no secret. We we we we give up. We'll give up our girl before we give up the basket you have. You can't take this rock. You know, those are the type of things that you know, we dribbled through key holes and all of that. And it's funny because I watched today's game from Kyrie and Steph and they was like, oh, that's the best. I was like, that's the stuff we did when we well at home. It really was the way we played when we were home, but we would never do it in a game like everybody had the game wasn't ready for it. No, it was like it was like you get pulled out, like you get chastise for doing the stuff that guys do today. But everybody had that in their repertoire. Everybody like I'm like, like, no, that's not the best handle I've seen, like ever, Like, no, Carrie's got a great handle for the NBA, He's got the best, But no, he's not the best handle I've seen. And who's the best hand that you've seen? You feel like? And then if then that skilled play like he know how to play, was in the league and not trying to make him play like a regular point guard the league, he would have been so much better. Let me tell you, Skips handled. So I didn't know Skip at Skip. I knew him as Race because he was played for my AU team. So I'm hearing, oh, you gotta go see Skip, tell my louse, Skip, tell my loup. So literally I come back. I'm working working out. I'm still in the league at the time, so I'm working out and my brother brings ray For to the gym and he's like, well, we had to write a passage. So if you were the younger kid, you had to always rebound for the pro or the college dude. So the high school dudes were reround for ray For and it's so on and so far. So you had to and Rayfer when those guys were rebound for me when I needed to work out, that was the only job. So anyway, so Rafer was there at the gym and he's working out and he's passing me the ball and I'm like, after the game, after I work out, I said, told my brother, I gotta go up town to see this, you know, go see skipped. But he knew it was skipped. I had no idea. I go up town. Rayfer walks in the park and the park goes crazy and I'm like, Ray, He's like, I'm here to see to do skip. He's like, I'm skipped. Like like what he's like. So he goes in and he's doing all this stuff and I pulled him aside. I said, Ray, why don't you do this in an NBA game. He's like, no, you can't do this stuff. And I'm real guy, I said, you could do it. What you're doing against these dudes, you can actually do so he and alim Um only to cut off. Yeah, this always talked when we talked about I think we're talking about the day I said, this is one guy that was playground that could have played in the league and dominated Alan. He was six six, handled like a point guard. Alimo I know, he know. He grew up in my uncle's building. Yeah, so my my uncle was like, he was a hustler. He wasn't. He wasn't a drug dealer, was but he was a hustler. So he owned like four or five buildings up in Harlem, and Alimo stayed in one of them. So yeah, no question. So I'm watching Ali play and I'm like, Ali, you could be in the league. He's like, nah, Kenny, I don't think I could be in the league. I'm like, no, Ali, you could be in the league because he was better than Raper. And so I call it. I called this is the first year the G League. The NBA now in the G League, and so I get him a tryout. He didn't go, really, he didn't go, and I called him a week later, I'm like, he dodged. Do you know when somebody dodged in your call. He never wanted to do it. He's the same guy that he and Ray Forer got the ticket to go to the college together, and he decided to cash the ticket in and Rafer went to a talk and became Ray for He would have been he would have been in the league for sure. Top five point guards ever ever New York, New York point guards. All right, I'm in the top five, So wed right, gotta put yourself in there now. I mean, I'm the most unique in this sense. I was the first guy who could shoot and you don't want to want dunk contest too. Yeah, I was the only guy who could shoot from New York like they I was, and I made it a point to be a shooter. I was like, because everybody was handling, I'm like, I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna learn how to shoot. You know, you probably are not the only one. Yeah. And then I that was in a contest called a Pepsi Hot Shot. Yeah. I went from city to city and I went to the finals of the Pepsi Hot Shot and that's what I really learned how to shoot. Yeah, So without question, so I'm I'm in there. I would say Kenny Anderson is probably the top. He's the highest. I think he's the best high school player I've ever seen ever, and I've seen Lebron. I actually asked Tom Kachowski, who rests, who was the guru of high school basketball? Who's the best players? And he said Kenny Anderson. I said why because he said he's six ft one and a hundred ten pounds and doing what he does. Lebron was in the kareem a different level. So Kenny Anderson step about to say, did you see Stefani step step Steff was really good in high school? Um, he was right below. He was a notch with Low. He was a notch low Pearl Washington in high school, he was a match. It came too easy for Pearl, Like he was a guy who got what's the guy from out here? Man? He played with my nephew that got really good early. Shake Cotton. He was shake cotton. He was always shake cotton. He just but he made it. But he just got good too early. You know, I'm not gonna go like Bob Couzy and Jim Lenney wild because I didn't see none of those guys play back in the day. Kareem Read is really good, but he's not top five. Bogus not top five. I would say mark to five question five even high school because you said talk to talk. They were like I always missed Charles and I'm always like, oh, like, oh I'm a star. And you know they talked to start talk on our show, Charleston. I'm like, first of all, did you make mcdonalell american? Chuck hit him with He's like, no, I would. By the way, I said, there's two dudes. When he was voted top thirty five high school players all time, I got a ball McDonald's yeah, it's me a shot. We only want to top thirty five high school players of ball time. Wait, wait, talk did you when you college basketball player the year? Like now when you play to you in your conference, like, okay, I'll play to you. I said, you just got good late, like I was good for eight years eight years run when you were still trying to develop your game. You got good when you was in your late twenties. Seventeen man, But it's to carry that that that long, that long battle. Man. So yeah, so that was the top five. Funny, it's the NBA Finals and two teams are about to make their mark on seventy five years of NBA history. One second on the court can define the players legacy. One shot can send a city to the top and give bragging rights to every fan. One ring is at the center of it all, and the stakes have never been in hya from game one to seven, from rookie to legend, from forty eight minutes to o t If it happens to the NBA Finals, it's forever. Visit NBA dot com slash Finals to learn more. So, as you mentioned McDonald's All American, you end up choosing North Carolina. Who else was in the mix for colleges? For college? I was Duke and and um at school from Durham, we don't say that name, and Virginia. Those are schools I visited. But I always wanted to play in the a CEC at that time. That was when the conference was to me, the a CEC had the best conference. I want to play against the best. But I chose North Carolina because when I went to the practice and I saw Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty, Michael Jordan's I looked at it and I said, I don't know if I could play here. I was a little nervous. I had never seen seven footage like they had. They had they had Tim McDonald, all Americans on the team mate. I was like, damn, I don't know if I could play here. I said, I know, I could go to Duke and play. I could play it Vintinua And I said, I gotta go here because I can't. I can't be there thinking that they're better than me. And so I wind up going at that time, you know, which is now if you don't do I was only the fifth freshman that ever start at the university. Like, but now, if you don't start as a freshman, people like yours. But that was unusual to start as a freshman, you know, for for me, So I chose North Carolina because of that reason. Uh. And they had everything, like all the schools like, oh we got a good academic school, good social life. I was a good basketball like they had everything. When I was it was like a movie. You know, you see those college movies. You see like the fraternities and kids walking through campus. It just it just felt like a movie. I was like, this isn't real, Like I'm coming from New York. It's like there's no campus. St. John's doesn't have a campus, like really, Like so I was like, they were like, they use the cities your campus. I'm like, nah, I'm not. I would have had to take the same bus that I took the high school to take. I was like, nah, I can't. I'm not having a bus pass. Yeah, I mean you're freshman year team, to name a few, Michael, Jordan, Brad Doherty, Sam Perkins, yourself, I mean, what were those practices? Like you know what the crazy part was that now that wasn't a question who was the best player. I'm gone, Sam Perkins was the best player of my freshman year, like because Sam was a four time All American that you know that wouldn't happen today any either, Like first team first team for Sam was the best player. Michael was the most dynamic, but he didn't have a handle. He couldn't handle the rock like in college. No, he couldn't handle the rocks. So like even even at times I'll be like, you played up like I got Mike. You're like because I know, I'm like I'm getting up under you like you can't hand and what happened? And then and then and he's the only guy that I know that his weaknesses that he had at the end of his career wasn't stress. The only person I've ever Lebron is not like that, k D, no, nobody. He's the only one we at. Then his handle was crazy and his jump shot was pure. I said, how do you miss a jump shot? You got a perfect form. But we talked about it and I was like, this is not competitive. We talked about competitive with Mike. So I used to say. I was like, it's like, oh you CAINK you could go U. It's like, yeah, because your hand was whack. I used to say, your hands whack, I can call you and like, so now we're doing that. We play and he goes to the Olympics, comes back, goes to um to the league, comes back for the summer because all the players, with every North Carolina player, Kent came. But we all come back and play. So the gym is the doodles, like it's like any NBA team. We would have beat like in that gym without questions. And he's he's going, I'm like, damn, gang guy. He's like, my handle's been working on. But I forgot said that. I forgot I said it and he's like, my handles, right, he's something about my handle. But he was like the stories are true about his competitiveness. Like we were we were playing pick up one day. So this is when you knew you made I made I made it too, because the juniors and seniors, you know, even at y'all school, probably picked the team. Yeah yeah, right straight out of high school to Mexico, right, so they picked I don't ca a lot of this is how we're doing. So the pros go on one end and they players college players go on the other, and then you pick your team. But you could you could pick the pros. You could cross over, so Michael went or Sam whoever, they would have seen leaders and junior leaders. They can pick the team. And the first day, you know, you know, as a freshman, you're just sitting because they're not picking me. So you get on the courter end. So about two weeks later, about a week later, uh, Michael's picking and he's like, I got uh, I got New York. They used to call me New York. I got New York. It's like, oh, shoot, I got picked first. He's like, first, it's it's pros. In the gym, I was like, oh, it's k I was like, so my my confidence was boost So now we're playing right, And we went in we went in games, and so every time we went you know, you're gonna get water. And I'm watching Mike and he's standing in the middle of center court. Like I walked up, like, yo, what are you doing. He's like, I want the mother because they know that I'm never leaving the court. I'm gonna be the first to stand here in the last I was like, all right, so we bothna what we're doing, how we're doing it. I mean, he would like, I mean, he was the first dude that I met that could back up his trash like every day every day. Always always a talker and always backed it up though, like and he really took more pride, especially than his defense. He's like, Walter Davis, she's not scoring today, you're not scoring the day, Walter Davis like he That's the type of energy he was on all the time. He and when he when he got to the league. So we had dorms, and our dorm numbers don't change. So if you had dorm number eight, it's the same phone number next year. I'm just a different person. So so all of when he comes in town, this is before the Instagram, and he you hear the phones go one and somebody hang up and you just heard going out. So it's him. And all he say is schools in session. So everybody coming the hallway to be like, Mike's here, Mike's here, right, Mike, So he going. He called each room to let her know come to the gym. School session, so the gym would be pat We got four thousand people watching our pickup games. That's crazy, four thousand. It was, It was. It was unbelievable that time basketball was different. There was no Charlotte Haunets. So like people would and this is no social media and people that all whole word of mouth, and they would be four it would be four thousand people when he came in the gym. I mean obviously with his competitiveness and in his desire to get better at the young age, did you see him possibly being a great I knew he would be great. I never thought he'd be the greatest because when I first saw him, and then when I saw him when we even in practice, like you don't like I guess it's like you have a beautiful wife and you like take it for granted, because she did. Every day you see, you see it every moment. You know, you see every moment you know a beautiful person you're around you you see their bad side too, you see the days that they're being mood. So for him, I saw those moments and I was like, but then when he when he left and he came back, I saw that the energy that he put into his game, like he never stopped working. Man Like, his stuff is not an accident. Like it's not like, oh he was gifted. No, he was the most fundamentally sound player that ever played the game. If you watch the videos, his his left hand is in the correct pass in lane. His footwork is unrepeppable. The offensively, you know, his job step is he's the always ball move feats they still like all of those things were all the time. And then he was the best athlete. Most guys who were the athletic didn't rely on you know, as great as even you know and this is not not but as great as Claude Drexler was. That was the difference between him and Mike. To me, it's just the fundamentals of jab step and that's you know, the stuff that Dean Smith learned. But and it Mike gets a lot of it for like his quotes, but it's just Dean Smith's quote. It's stolen. It's just he just adds expletives everything everything that Coach Smith said to us. That's what Mike said. I mean, you you can pull it. It's every interview. It's plagiarism to the finest. I mean speaking to Coach Smith, what was it like some of the stories and memories you have rest in peace. Obviously one of the greatest to ever do it. Dean Smith, he was to me, it was like planning for Gandhi mm hmm, like you know what I mean. He was. It was a real about his inner person who he was. My favorite story is not even with me, it's uh, it's with Mac and Ji who played at North Carolina. He was from Africa, played that Michigan transferred in and the ok Yeah, he went to Okill. So Mike Mac was, you know, having a tough time in practice. So Roy Williams was assistant coach at the time, and he's in Bill Guthridge and so they're getting on Mac, like Mac, what's wrong with you? Blah blah blah. Coach Smith's never cussed ever. Excuse me, ever ever ever, never cussed. So they're getting on him and so they throw him out of practice. Right, so coach Smith have the practice, goes to him, says, Mac, is everything all right? Like homesick like, and he's like, no coach, and he's not. He's not looking at him. He's like, he's like, Matt, look at me when I'm talking to you. He's like, no, coach, I'm just not feeling Matt, look at me as I talked to you. He said. Coaching my culture, to look uh an adult in the eye is its sign of disrespect. So Coachman says, okay, walks out. So next day in practice, there's no coach Guthridge who threw him out of practice. Coach Gus is not there for a week. So Max said he gets a call because from his mom. She's like, Matt, this is man here in Africa, says he's your coach assistant. Coach. I know Coach Smith, I don't know him well. He's been here for a week, saying he's learning our culture. He sent coach Guthridge to learn his culture so he could never make that mistake again. That is what coach Smith is Yes, that's that's the best store I heard of. Gentlemen. Father's Days around the corner, and our friends at Manscaper here to ensure all father figures are out there looking daddy material. 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You deserve this treat to pless free shipping with cold smoke at manscape dot com. Again, that's off for free shipping at manscape dot com. Used to coach smoke. Shake what your Mama gave you, Nah, Shake what your Daddy gave you six picked to the Kings seven draft use classes included Scottie Pippen, Dave Robinson, Redgi Miller, Reggie Lewis, mug Mark Jackson, Kevin Johnson, hars Grant. Do you think your classes underrated? We would be the top class now the way the game is played today. I don't think we're underrated for that time, but for this time, Like Reggie Miller would be picked second draft, Reggie Lewis would be picked third. I would be took one because I was the best in college out of all of them dudes in college. You know what I'm saying. Scottie Pippen would be four, you know they were, they were option. Probably would still be one. He might be one, Yeah, he still would be one because it would be a unique big because he probably he probably would have stretched hand. But game hardst Grant. You see what I'm saying. This is we we were that era, this era. We were just born in the wrong era. Like but that was like a prototypical like two thousand two draft. You'd be like you had a hell of a draft with them dudes, because Reggie was shooting threes when there was no three point lie like you know, it was bananas like he he and Reggie Lewis, those guys were and and then m Reggie Lewis and Reggie from Georgetown, Um Williams. Reggie Williams was a six seven great three that would in this today's game would be prototypical guy. Talk about the state of the league at that time, We talked about John Sally and said it was a really drug infestive league around the time, and it was an image problem around the time. Sea came in right on the cleanup. See, I was like John is like two years older maybe so he caught the last tale of it. When I was in, it was like we wasn't doing what dudes are doing the day, Like nah, up and smoke woudn't exist broh, Like yeah, all the smoke, all the smoke wouldn't exists. Like and we were like they were like, guys were cheap too, so our ever would you were first starting to make a million dollars, two million dollars, They weren't blowing ten thousand dollars in the nightclub on liquor. There wasn't. He was playing with Burning Maxwell. Now come on, don't don't but I'm gonna tell you about Verne was buying drinks. He wasn't buying bottles drinks. He wasn't. There was no sparkless from him, There was no there was no sparkless. There was no spark Vernon by ten shots. He ain't really not buying the bottom, So no sparklers. No, it was so we wanted to clean up. So guys more than anything, they would you know, they would drink. I said, you know, you would see. I thought it was more like a drinking issue in the league where um, but now you know it's yeah, well I didn't catch the like the that whole coka. I grew up in that growing up in New York City, Like you know, you grew up in the crack. I grew up in the crack erea. So it was like poverty and a lot of money. You're just like it was like it was between. It was noring between. I used to see guys like literally overnight have pockets and like no like duffel bags full of money. One of my one of my boys, you know, the name Nameless, he's in there. He's in that game. But he was a great basketball high school player, so you know, you know him because he plays, but he was like a smooth hustler, so he didn't know he was really doing it. He has, you know, he has a beautiful house, family, He throws nice parties, no drugs scene. So he pulls me in his garage one day and he's like Ken. I'm like, oh, this's a nice car. Show him his cards and he's like, you're my guy, so I gotta ask you if you want to do this. So he opens you know that you know the trash cans that you put out. He opens two of them up and then fill with cash. He's like, it's three hundred thousand in this one. It's like four hundred in there. Just by way, I could tell if you give me two hundred fifty cash to and write a check for two fifty, you could take the bound because you could go into cashes. I can't try to clean that money. I'm like where I'm from. He's like, no, I just had to ask you though, because I don't want to hear somebody here that you didn't get a chance at this money and you're my guy. I'm like, no, I don't get that, Like I don't get that, Like I'm good. I was like, yeah, so it's like like that was a hard note because you see the it's like it's like six hundred thousand ills in cash, like sitting there and like just give me two fifty right a check and I'm good. No, I'm good. Yeah, money probably when it did it. But see, you gotta think that money got all kind of paring from me and all kind of stuff they can get you buy the money not even in the washer, and the driver ain't gonna do it. Funny because I got the funniest story about Stephen Man. Chucky Brown play with us. That was my guy. So checking with my guy, right, So this is right when you're right when you went and went in the stands. So I didn't know you were you know, I just you know, we didn't. You talked a couple of times and from being in Houston, being in Houston, yea, and so um, I'm like I called Chucky. I'm like, yeah, what kind of dude is Steven Man? He jumped in the stands. He's like, Kenny Man, Yo, you love him? You love Jack. I love him. He's like he's like, cause Max was my guy. So me and Max were late to the all like my kids, his kids called me uncle Kenny. I always had like like a relationship with guys like that for some reason, and when I'm not really like that, you know, but I always gravitated. It was a balance. He's like you love jack Like wow, he's like he's a soldier. He's like Jackson soldier, but he's the soul just hoping for war, looking like he's hoping for I was like, I get it. I had never heard anybody described. From that point on, I understood him like he's like, it's like, I got it. He wants to smoke, Yeah, there is. He's like he's looking for it. A great dude man from him too. Yes, yes, it died. That was my first. So then I understood why he went the stands, and then I understood what was going on. I understood his whole mentality. I think I don't remember that I called you, and I remember because when we were going he was we were talking about on T and T. So I was just like, yeah, I was telling you know, the Chucky story. I think I even said, I just you know, we had talked before, and I was I just don't like to go on TV something that's sensitive issue without talking to the first you know, like, I'm not gonna the only one did that, though really you're the only one did that. I just don't like basketball. I ain't gonna call him like, Yo, you ain't get back on deep bro, knock it off, like here's the film like stuff. I'm just checking. And he was telling me, like, Kenny Man, you know I'm not really like that, I said, Jack, I do believe that. I said, but this's your second incident, not even a year. Yeah, I'm like it's the second one. And I said, you're a good guy, but if you keep doing bad things, you're really a bad guy who want to be good. So you got to realize who you are. Like even we all like everybody who's good ain't all good. You know, everybody bad we we know from like everybody who bad ain't all bad, like you know what I mean, Like they just not all bad. And everybody who good ain't really all good. So but if you continually do bad ship that's all say you're a bad person. You are bad, like you got you gotta on it. And so I was like and then I even when he was doing that, like I told when he would be time said, yo, you were media dude, like we had we want to play like and I was like, ooh, you could do this media thing man, like you were on our show. Yo, you're really good. Like I think he thought I was blowing smoke and I'm like, no, bro, you're really good. Dudes, come on, they don't get it like you get it like you can here we are. But I didn't think he was born smoke because I can go back on my Instagram and showed you when I got off the plane, I made a post and I sat next to you and what you were saying, Oh yeah, yes, I made post. I meant it. I meant it ninety He were traded to Atlanta in the same year traded to Houston. First thoughts of playing with a key. It was the first time in my life. I went to find the rec center and it was the first time in my life I was playing. So were playing pick up and we're on the same team, and I threw the ball inside and the guy goted me left. That had never happened to me. It was the first time. I was like, they leave you playing with him? That that never happened to me. Yeah. I played in Sacramento my first two years. Like I led the league. I was second in the league in minutes the Carolina Blue Jersey something. Yeah, man, I mean second minutes on a bad team. I'm playing forty. I played forty five minutes at night my second year in the league. I only came out the game three minutes, which is another story because I was Jerry Reynolds was coaching. First, it was Bill Russell, then Jerry Reynolds, and Jerry's like, what's you know? You get all upset at me when I take you out. I'm like, yeah, Jerry, you just take me out the wrong three minutes. It's like you don't know what you're doing. But it's the first time I threw it in and they left me. I was like, oh, it's gonna be different. So then I was like, I need to learn. I didn't shoot my first two years in the league. I took eighty three two in three years. And I said, I gotta learn how to shoot the three because I didn't know how to shoot the three, and so I called. I was at a charity game and dell Ellis was there and I said, Dawn, that's one of the ones. I said, you shoot the three real easy. How do you do it? And he showed me how. He's like, no, you get your feet set, like this is how you get your balance, I said, because this is far. Like for me, I was like, it's just feel far. It's like no, no, none needs balance and you get your legs and I practiced it. So I was like, and I in my first twenty games, I took eighty threes just based on playing with him, throwing it in and they leave you and double and then you know, still at that point, I was still the jet. Now I'm a proper playing but I was still so like it was. It was if you ran at me, I could go buy you, I could go by you, and so, you know, and then me and Vernon together like Vernon was fast as hell. Verning was for those who don't know, Vernon was Dwayne Wade before Dwayne Wade. But he just didn't have the mental stability. But if he had Dwayne Waste mental stability, he would have been the way that's it. He just didn't have it like burning. You know, I was a psychiatrist in the sense that you know, because everybody knew that we were close and I loved him to death, and so Rudy would be like Canny go get him. Rudy t I canny, go get Vernon, Oh, go get Verdict. And I was like, yo, listen, we had a Vernon story with this when we was with the We Believe Warriors. We went in was it to Houston. Remember he's in there getting a full worker. Come on, Nellie, I still got it. We were walking and we walked, you walked by burning down. You think he's twenty three. You know. We were walking in the gym getting ready for practice, and Max had had a whole hour workout, sweating show. And then Don Nelson he still had he wanted attend a for our Warrior team at that time, was crazy dog. He's probably like the second best athlete Michael and him as present and Eago Dollar like just pure pure athlete, like like I had never seen something like him, like Vernon. And and plus he had he had my back too far, like too far, like he just have your back so far that it's almost scary. It's almost scary, like like the type of love. He's the first guy to go on the stands. Yeah, I was just about to say I didn't I didn't want to say it, but I was about the first guy in Dallas no, this is in Portland, Portland's first time, so we can drove. We think this is not that we win the championships were getting drove. We went losing by twenty So Vernon He's going to entertain anything that can be entertained. So the guy is screaming at the top of his lungs. You know, oh, you guys are no chaps. He sucked, blah blah blah blah. He's not gonna be So Brennan's like, he's sitting right here in the time now, I'm literally here goes. You keep talking that ship, I'm gonna come up there and smack the hell out you. You're not gonna do anything. Maxwell get sucked and it was you know how you have that flight of flight moment where you just you just I froze because I'm watching him instead of tackling him. I'm watching him and I'm and I'm it's like a movie, and I'm like, is he really going up there? He's going up there back out of him, And I was like, oh my god, I could have prevented the whole thing. So to this day, I still want to pay the fine for because I was like, I could have stopped it, because that was always my job is to stop him because I was the only one who could like bring him back. But if he if he's doing this, you're gonna he'd be real quiet and you'd be like, that's not mad, Max. But when that light switch turned on, oh my god, it was only like two people in the world I could turn it off, and I just happened to be one of them. And I could like say two things, three things, and he'd come back and he'd be like, Okay, he say, like you like that. People tell me you like that. You gotta switch manwitch, like right now, about five different switches got switch. Yeah, and do you have who's the guy who can stop your switch? Probably him? Yeah, and then yeah, not there's a couple of people that can't. But yeah, you go. But you're my manner, like yeah, like and then that's my thing because I mean, I think it's a lot of people. My whole thing is like I don't even go looking for it. Just the disrespect thing. I don't do very well to the disrespect happen. Yeah, I don't like that. And that's what that was. Yeah, it was disrespect. Disrespect. He always thought disrespect was like not acknowledging who he was, like looking through him. So if you look through him in any manner, it's an issue. He had an issue with you. We need we need man Max on here yea yeah issue. Yeah, Like he would fight every every game we played the Bulls. He fight Michael every single game. And so that's what I used to do when I can't stop somebody. He's just height. He started every every single game, He's gonna start to fight with Michael. But the crazy part is Michael was like, Yo, this dude is he's crazy. I'm like, why you said that? He's like, he brought his son in here after the game. We have a fight Kenny and all Jordan's and Jordan's gear to get autographs. But I just thought, this dude, that's all. But that's what that was back because Mike would look through him. You know, Mike is not He's like Mike stay stuff like, yo, you see who's on me packs and throw me. Oh you can't make comments like that. You see who's that's looking through Like, yeah, you might hit the jump up, but I'm a whip your ass, whip yours. I've seen you do it. I've seen like I didn't know that about you until late in your career. Even watching you him, I knew because of Texas. But I've seen Vernon like physically intimidate guys. I think that's the first person who cursed me out when I think I was a rookie preseason. He cursed me out so bad. I'm like they talked to people like this, and like we was on the street, he talked to me so bad, and that's when I fell in love with him. He would if you if you weren't from that element, you would take it so personally. Either you're gonna fight or you would be intimidated. But if you're from the element, you just know a lot of its talk once you off the court is dead. Is this talk? It's not like going there. But he's so close on the edge. Five back to back championships. What was it like to get that first taste? You google it right now, it's clut City. Clut City. We made it where a city that was known for choking and not doing well to a city that was could do well under pressure. And you know what, the crazy thing a championship. We were the first championship franchise sports franchise ever in Houston, the Astros had one football team, Oilers Oilers now Texas. Nobody had one ever until we won, and I noticed a change in the city, big change. I didn't that it would do that, like I always thought that it would have changed me in us. But I saw them the way people moved in the city and while and with the way they thought. So it was just it was a great feeling to go back to back, but I think the second one felt better because we came from the sixth seed. We never had home court advantage, so we started every on the series on the road, two games on the road the first two games and we get off. So I had a thing where dream and it was like you wanna say it, I'm like, oh, so we come up the team playing and I'm like, and we're being another person city like we're home. So I had to say we're home because we weren't home. We never started like we win a series and we're gone straight to days we can win in Houston, be like, damn, after the game, you gotta fly out this game seven, You're flying out right after. So it was that second championship was the best within the with all due respect within the context of your championships and kind of that era. That was a two year period that Mike had took off. How do you feel like you guys would have fared your two championships off. He went to go play, he was playing for. He came back as number forty five in the second one. He came back as number forty five, and we had fifty five in the garden. Nobody was saying he was selling he was. He wasn't. Mike. You know, we would have beat their ass because like drain was too much around. I don't think about this. There's a couple of things. Michael is still the best player in the world and I've ever seen, but that means he would have had to win eight championships in the room. It's not gonna win eight in a room. He's not. Nobody's done it in the modern era, he wouldn't have done that. Secondly, there was no horrors Grant he left. And then then they became way too small because even in that his regular season, in the regular season years we went seven and one against them, was six and two. They never beat us in the regular season. We need to go to Chicago's smack up, come back to Houston smack him up. You know, they like b J and you know and and im pacts and those guys were good players, but they were too slow for us. And no one in Winnington and them couldn't guard him. And and for some reason Scotty wasn't Scotty then he wasn't a scorer you need they needed. So I think we would have got him because of that. There was no Rodman. Now when they got robbing, I'm like different, I don't know. If the Rockets, we would have got them. But they were too little. And that that's why shocking them got him because he came back. It wasn't he was coming back from baseball. They were too little to shock. They lost to a team for two that we swept. We swept shocking them. So like, no, no, no, they would not have beaten us. And then if you if I didn't come in there and I'm not splashing with three, Sam could sell is coming in there giving you twenty Roy was the new Scottie pitman. Then he wasn't like stand outside and he was oldest was in the first one. Yeah, And then Clyde like, no, they wouldn't have beat us. They would not beat us because they were just too little, and they wouldn't have won eight in a row. Something would happen, somebody would have left because of contract, somebody would have got hurt, something, They wouldn't have beat us. He made a great point right there. Back in the day, you didn't worry about being injured in the playoffs as much as they do. Now. You know, normally you had your guns when you was going into the big game. Now it you know, championships have been one because key players have been missing. What do you think the difference is and why? I think the lack of playing. I think there is load management, but the lack of not playing in a game I think increases your ability to get hurt. Play Less minutes would help. If you don't. If you don't, if you don't ride like I don't know, on your days off, it made you feel better or worse. For me, it may me feel work. I did something I had to do even and I think that these guys now are not taking the pounding. So then when they pound in the playoffs, because you go from playing every other day taking days off, to all of a sudden, oh man, I got played thirty nine forty six minutes and they're not used to the pounding. And I used to you're around thirty after the back to back championships and injuries, started to say in what's going through your mind? Well? I always for me, I always had to deal Yeah, you see the way I walk, I had to always had to deal with something like knee issues. Like so I used to wake up in the morning be like, um my bus is ass today you can tell right away yeah yeah, yeah or not today. What do you feel when you do that? Now, I'm like, they're gonna get I'm gonna get my ass Bunton every day, every day, good day, I'm gonna lose. I raised to the board. I gotta figure out a trick to get to the board fast on Today I got him, you know, but I think, um, you know, for me, you know, especially being good early and so long, like having to carry that shoulder and from high school to college, playing four years in college. You know that took a toll on a hundred sixty five pound dude. You know, so by time I was like seven, when you're supposed to be hitting your superpowers, mine, like when that's starting to fade, you know what I mean? Where like that I gave a lot of those eight good years early. But you know, but you have the experience, like experience you can never that you can't and people always say, well, I was experienced. I'm like, experience just reduces anxiety. If you don't have anxiety, you don't have anxiety gonna perform, like because I have the experience to know that I've done this and been in this position, so I don't have the anxiety to not knowing what's going on. So then I'm I feel comfortable. I feel I could see things that you can't see. You know, you can see things you can't see. So you transition um into media and you're able to join T and T. Did you have any idea what you're getting yourself into? Somewhat? I never wanted to be in media, but I just enjoyed it, Uh, because I love the game. I mean, if you come to my house tonight, it's gonna be five of us sitting around. We're gonna be talking about the games, talking about whatever it is. That's what we did. So my brother always says, you know, he should get paid half my T and T contract because I use his stuff. You know. My my cousin says that we all do we we do group chats, and like that's all we that's what we do. So but I didn't notice like that most people couldn't in thirty seconds explain that's important what was going on, and not only explain it, but explain it to you guys who are at the highest level and also where my grandmother could understand. I was like, oh, they can't do that. I just had that knack, And I think, you know, if we're gonna talk to talk, I think what makes me the best in the businesses. I see the periphiel like I don't see like when I walked in here, I could see the environment that's created, and I could feel the energy of what part of each team that you pull from just based off of like a five minute walk through it. I don't know. That's just a gift that God has given me, and and it's just in life, like I could see that in life. But I can see him like, oh, that person is important to this process. I'm like, oh, my my man, hair said like two commons. He jumped in. He's the only one who's jumped in, and neither one of y'all said anything. He's important to the process. When he was he like, y'all allowed him to speak. Yeah, I just but those are things I know. So when i'm when those are things I bring to the show, I'm like, no, no, no, no. You know when this guy like it was a player that had an unbelievable game and great player, and I was like, I'm not sure if his teammates like him. M hmm, Like what do you mean? I was like, because I could tell body reactions on the bench which authentic and what wasn't. Like if I had fifty, everybody on the team would be going like one of my teammates, I would know. I'm like, but the guy ain't really feeling getting fifty. I'm like, yo, yo, I'm not. It's a different energy. Those are the things that I noticed, And I'm like, that's why they're gonna win or that's why they won't. And I think you know where it shocking, Charles. They come from. The I always say, Charles is um, he's a flashlight. And I know y'all have had some beef. Everybody. Everybody has some beef. You could never have beef for Charles in this way, obviously, because he looks at life through a flashlight and not a floodlight. So if he says, if you look at life through a flashlight, he's like, man, everybody in here got on Jordan's. No, I got on Jordan's. He's got the flashlight. He's correct in it, but he but when you put the floodlight on it to everybody else. So, but sometimes the flashlight is super accurate because he's pointing it directly at you. But sometimes he misses things. My job was always to bring the floodlight to the situation and go, Nah, you're right, But it's not that only you know. So he has an accuracy point to it that will rub you the wrong way, because or you would over love. I think he gets too much credit sometimes and then that sometimes I think he gets too much the other way. But he's accurate all the time. But it's a flashlight, you know. Well. I mean I think that leads us into our next question, what makes you guys such a great team? Obviously, so many different insights and perspectives and points of views with Ernie and Shock and and and Chuck, But what do you think makes you guys? Were the only show on television that listens, that listens, the only show Yeah, everybody else has their written notes and they're gonna, like I write sit down, like I'm gonna write stuff down. I might. I'm saying I'm gonna get this point out. But if Jack says something that makes me go another direction, not even on that point, I'm gonna stay with that because that's where the topic is. So we're listening instead of like, I gotta get this out about Kyrie tonight. A lot of people listen to respond instead of listening to understand. Yeah, like they are. You know, it's like you've been in an argument before when the person has already got their prerecord. They you you're telling them, no, I really was there at six o'clock, and they're like they're waiting to get their point back. Got Now I'm listening like, oh, you wasn't at six. Tell me how you were there six, Like, explain it? And well that's the only thing that separates us. Went that to me. And that's a hard job to listen, Like you can't just say okay today, I'm gonna start listening. They just put three guys, four guys together that listen. We always in it. And Shock didn't listen at first, and and until he realized we were listening it and I told Shaq he was terrible. Honestly, is first six months on the show, you got into some little piece. So what was it? We guys went behind the scenes of inside. It was terrible. And the two things happened that made him great. You know, I don't know. You know. I went to him first and I was like, bro, the stories you say in the green room bananas, like the stuff you're saying about Kobe, and like you gotta bring that to the He's like, no, they don't. I was like, Shock, that's one I said. The first other thing is like this the first time in your life. You ain't the most dominant player first time, Like we might be better than you at this, so just be you and blah blah blah. And then the second thing happened, so so Shock used to come in and be shocked. If y'all know what was shock, Shock is a movie Shocks. I'm walking on. He's got ten people coming in. He created a hookah lounge and in the no in the studio, and they made let him do this. They were like, he's like, I have to have my hooka. So he has a hookah lounge outside they make and they put a TV outside the studio. We got a green room, Like, yo, man, Chuck in the green room. We've been doing this but fifteen years together. This dude's gonna come in. You're gonna build a hookah lous like was going on, like what's going on? And then he's got entourage, he's got he got Jerome and him all they're driving. Everybody's driving, the one driving the rolls, one driving the bed leaving the Ferrari. It's like it's just a movie and me and Chuck is Chuck for sure, and Chuck is very sensitive. He's like he doesn't like it. Like I'm like I'm used to that in a way, like I'm okay with dudes name stuff. But Chuck is not having it. So now he's not watching again. He's literally DJ equipment, No kid, you not. He's practicing his DJ while the game is going on. They let him get away with all that because he's shot. So now he comes on the show and he's like he says something like yeah, DeAndre Jordan needed and DeAndre is not playing tonight. So me and Charles like, because we sitting next to each other, he's hitting me and I'm hitting up. We're gonna get his ass today. So we're just lightened into him. Oh, we're just going you don't know that. And so now we're saying stuff about the game because we know he didn't watch. So then our producer comes downstairs and he's like, what the is going on? Y'all giving him a hard time like that, you're embarrassing him on our national toy. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa? Since when don't we make fun of each other when you don't know ship? Right? Because Matt Shall don't do anybody can get it. And it goes like this, and then the producer goes like this, you're right, go get it, get him, And from that day on he turned. He's like, I gotta be ship. He got on point. Yeah. What thoughts on the way the media landscape is kind of turning down for an ill using example of Draymond getting kicked out and not doing media after the game, but going on his podcast and kind of explaining his point of view, thoughts on just the way the media is and the players are kind of taking it more in their own hands. Now, well, you know it's Graham and Twitter. You know you you got voices like God, you got more followers than people that then we're gonna have viewers, you know what I mean, And you're in your and your sound bite. It's gonna live longer. So I don't have a problem with it. I just don't. I just feel that the only difference what I feel today's player, the sensitivity is what I don't understand, Like you're going to put information out for us to hear as players, former players and as media, and then when we speak about it, you get sensitive. They don't put it out like I'm not, Like you can't do a reality show and then be like, oh, don't talk about my wife, Like are you touring a reality show? What are you talking about? Are we seeing her? And you're telling us that y'all had a problem today, Like you can't like do that. And that's why I think the sense of activity part um. I'm always surprised that because they actually and in certain guys like I've always loved like that I never understood. There's a couple of guys I define like and then actually both Kyrie and Kevin, I didn't understand them. I don't know them well, but I didn't understand them because I always loved them, like when they first came. Everybody I knew always talked great about him when they first came. The first five six years, they were like Kyrie and Kevin. And then it became like everyone hates me like you said when y'all talk, and I was like, no, no, no, bro, nobody hates you like we all love you like and then and then the narrative shifts because then people start hating them and they got hate on them, and I was like, I've never seen that, Like Steph Curry his whole career and no one's hating on him. They're never gonna be like, oh, we hate Steph Curry. But if he started saying, oh, y'all hate eating on me or blah blah blamp, then people would start doing it. It's just they changed the narrative of their own script that I didn't understand why they did it because I wasn't hearing what they were hearing. I just me personally, and I'm in the media, I'm in the back rooms, I'm with the players, I'm with the owners, I'm with it. The most unique position I have an owner. I had this happened yesterday. I had an owner called me, a general manners called me, a player called me, an agent called me, and then au coach all in one day. And so I'm I know I'm in the most unique position ever. And I had never heard that about them, so I always I would That's the only question y'all ever have them on it is like when did they feel the hate started for them? That would be my one question because I never felt like, now, of course I'm gonna talking you do something like in a basketball sense, because I could pull a film out like I pill. You can't front on me like I could pull a film and say you didn't do this. But you know, I never cared about like even even with the vaccine with Kyrie, I never cared about it, like because that doesn't affect the game and me and I always thought the social issue was different from the basketball issue, Like I don't think we could ever tell him to do something that was a national pandemic and the fear that people had in the misinformation that people will get in on both sides, because you know, they did tell us when we first was like you take the vaccine, you would never catch it, Like they did say that that was that was the stuff going out like, you know what I'm saying. So it's like, I d that's a different issue than when I hear guys trying to bleed that in and like, oh he didn't, he wasn't there for his teammates, like that ship wasn't the That's not the same taking a polio shot. It's not the same as playing basketball and not coming to work. Like it's two different issues. So I don't know if y'all get him on to ask him when did they feel the hate started? Yeah, I mean I talked to him alive. I just any time you disagree with the masses, it's gonna be like that. But at the same time, nobody understood the conversation. Him and Kevin Durant had the conversation, so it was understood between him and him and his teammate. So for people to say he turned his back on his teammates, you can't say that and actually know what you're talking about, because him and Katie had the conversation. But you're not turning your back on your teammate because it's not it's a it's a social issue. It's not exactly, it's it's two different things. Now, dude, I agree with it. I was like, no, I got, I'm backed up and I'm boosted, you know what I mean. But that's just on the information I got. But I didn't. I didn't make that decision based on T and T. You know what I'm saying? Like that nothing. So I never understood how people put those together. I see in sports world like that two different issues, like would you go to war or go to play basketball? Like that's two different. They don't blend quick hitters coming down the stretch. First thing to come to mind, let us know you're all time North Carolina starting five, feel Ford at the point. Phil I had been showing sixth man because of him. Feel Forth at the point, Michael at the two, James at the three, James Worthy at the three, Sam Perkins at the four, and Brad Daugherty at the five. Brad Dodd was better than sheet. I'm just asking at the five, not at the four. At the five, amoutter of fact, she gets Sam. He does get Sam. He does She always t my she story like so, I see she right, He's getting all the text right, and we were all eating I'm like, she, I just I'm waiting for the moment. I'm like, bro you can't take out in this in this series, Like how can you not get a technical? He's like Kenny, Man, it feels like if I don't say nothing, my head's gonna explode. Like, well, we don't want to have to explode. Keep talking. Just go ahead, man, I want your head to explode. But yeah, he he could have been the best powerful ward of Alter. He could have been, but he had a little he had a little too much Philly in him, like he didn't want to do that, and he was a little too unselfish. Simon Gratz, he was much if I had like as great as Kevin Gone that is. But if I had to put my money on one game, one game, not the season, the season, I'm going Kevin garn that he Kevin, They're gonna get me there and take me over the top. Yeah, he's gonna get me and take But if I said this game seven, game seven, I'm going with sheet game seven for one game, he's gonna get you there. And he's because he got more stuff than Captain. He put it on the floor. He could shoot the three, he could he could block shots, he could defend, he could score on He did it all. He just didn't want to be the best player. He was okay with being part of a great yea exactly. Yeah, he's okay with that. And let me let me, let me, let me dispel the other thing that's shocking them. We always say others, but I don't they do. I hate the word others, like you know how they say, oh, this and the others, because I hate that term. It's like it irks me every time I said, they hear it. I just want to scratch the freaking desk because it puts so much less value when you put a guy as you put Matt Bond is another. Stephen Jackson is the other. Like because you're not the star, because star doesn't mean star. Like because you take more shots doesn't make you the star. Score more like Charles you you best score a rebound up, but you couldn't if you had to bring that ball up. We would have pressured your ass and you would not get the ball up. So you need Kevin Johnson to be the best point guard to bring the rock up. Like his role is so valuable and so underrated when you call him another you know. And that's what I had a problem when when um so I was talking about KD about routing the bus, and they started saying the bust thing. Oh yeah that when you're not a bus driver, no no, no time out. If you ride on the bus, that means your I'm getting upset. You're a damn passenger. A passenger does nothing but wait for the rival. That's it. Now. If he would have said he's got the captain of the ship, I'm like, oh, okay, there's a first mate. M hm. Damn. There's even a program director for entertainment. That's important. Isaac got the bar to love boat. He was important. Like every part of the there's roles that's really important, but they're not similar. But when you say somebody's a bus rider at the level that k D is, it gives the perception for people who not played like us. They get in their mind that, oh, it takes one guy to win this ship. You bugging. It doesn't take one guy to win and actuality shack to be real. In real time, we are riding the same bus, nobody driving it. Yeah we got a bus driver. Are like like we all were on a ship. We're on a ship man. It's like no, like, no, no way that that that that that term, those terms bothered me even though that because it doesn't bother me for us. It bothered me for they don't really know that you have to be at to be one of the best three seven something in the world. There's only there's only five thousand of us that's ever touched the floor in the NBA, in the world and the history of basketball. You're gonna call me another Like when I got there was a dream. When I left, it was a reality. You know, when I left, he was just a dream. He was a reality. Like I got there the year before they didn't make the playoffs and not I'm the best player, but I put everybody in the right spot, Like I know, now you don't go to the two. You don't have to handle the rock like boom boom, Like okay, now you're gonna have space in Like that makes you a championship team. What y'all been on, you'll understand that. Like when when they say that, I'm like, you're talking to people who don't understand the game. So Top seventy lists, who's the biggest snubs for you? Vince Carter. Vince Carter, he held the league down for like eight years, like he was the face of not his team. He was face of the league for eight years. You know, Tracy is probably right behind him, But Tracy was never to me the face of the league. Vince was the face of the league like David Stern and those guys, we need you to go to China, what we need you to He just facing the league and you know, so I thought he was the biggest snub and underrated because it's Johnny come lately. They're looking at events at Atlanta, Vnce called, you know, year twenty whatever. No, that ain't Vince Carter, like no, first on the scene and scary. Those guys didn't want to see events, like when he walked in the gym, like they didn't want to see him, like at all. Like so to me, that was he was the biggest stuff. Tracy was second right in there, um right in there. And Bernard King for me, because Bernard King was he was there. To me, I didn't see a small Larry Bird in them. Dudes didn't want to see I was. That's the air I grew up watching. They didn't want to see him, They didn't want to see James Worthy. Um uh, Larry Bird. They could not go him, and they could not go Bernard King five Dinner, Guess that or alive? Oh, Mandela, Bill Russell Obama, you're a female Seanna Rhymes. I would like to have heard here because she she writes stuff that typically isn't from our culture supposedly, and I like she's as stover. Yes, she's done a lot of different technically like oh, that's not your culture? How did you know? How do you know that? So? I would like her there? And who else? I got one more um my guys from up in All the Smoke? Yeah, I appreciate a whole different perspective. Keeping it right, keep it right. If you can have you know what my rookie year Steve Nash told me that he's like, bro, you can play a long time in his league. But stop keeping stop worrying about keeping it reel, and start keeping it right, keeping it If you can have one guest on All the Smoke, who would it be? But before you answer, you have to help us get your answer on the show. And before you answer, we've had three of your your T n T showmates on the show. A race, there's only one more left? Yeah, who's the who's the one left? Chuck? Chuck yea, don't want you don't want. You's gonna say the same ship that we you see on TV. He's not gonna change his answers. It's not gonna we're not trying to change that. I would like to see him on your show, but he's not like the first person I think of. Yeah, I enjoyed when you guys have like non like people. Was part of the basketball culture, but not part of basketball because like, like when you look at your wall, I can give you an answer. People, you only got to you only got one basketball play up here. You see what I'm saying, I gotta answer for you to think of one who's that you just did a movie with him, Adam saying, Adam sanding that you love. I'm a huge fan, bro. He is honestly the nicest guy I've ever met in my life. He and Drew carry from Prices right, the two nicest guy men I've ever met, Like, just genuinely nice other than the chemolage one. The most honorable guy, call me, call me most honorable um. And then Adam is the nicest guy him. So there we go. You heard it here. First, Kenny said he will get Adam Sandler of course for you. You know you look somebody. We look up too, so we got some gear from all I thought. I thought these were the um uh, you're sneakers. Your sneakers you had back in the day. No, no, I wouldn't give you them shooting. That's a wrap. Thank you Kenny Smith for your time. We know you're busy, man, but we appreciate you kissing our Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next week Sunday nights on Showtime. My mission is your mission. From the producers of Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Picard comes The Man Who Fell to Earth. Academy Award nominee you would tell Agio for this is the next step. Nothing will be the same. Academy Award nominee Naomi Harris, They are coming for you. The Man Who Fell to Earth series premier streaming April twenty four on Showtime