The first episode of a loaded Christmas week is here, as Spurs star DeMar DeRozan joins ALL THE SMOKE to talk about his career with Matt and Stak. DeRozan opens up about his time with the Raptors, being traded to the Spurs for Kawhi and then watching his former team win the title the year after, and the impact his lakers fandom and idol Kobe had on him. Plus, he talks about playing for coach Pop and talks mental health.
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Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got a real special games. What's up with your Brodie with the virtual handshake. I'm gonna tell you that I never told go back. I want to All the Smoke. Welcome back to another edition to All the Smoke. Jack, what's up with you? Bro? My boy? What's happening? Man? I can't call it. Just got out the gym, little boxing, little weights? Yeah, you boxing? Now, what's going on? I'm back? Yeah, just in case you know what I mean. It's a new world, just in case you know, you know, you never know, you never know. Smoke on on the way home and then came right home. And now we got Man the homie. I remember working out with this dude when he first came into the league. We're working over uh see, far over Loyola and just to see his steady improvement from the time he stepped into the league to where he is now has been. Man, it's been amazing to watch and uh someone I can call a friend. Welcome to the show. The Marja Rose and what's up, Bro? Going on. What's up, dog man? I appreciate you all for happening. Man. Yeah, definitely an honor. You know what I mean? Overdue overdue, bro, Yeah, for sure. In the Bill Compton in the building. Heymar remember that one man? What was it? Maybe it was like ten years ago. Remember that flag football game you had me come play. It was Compton. Who do we play against? It was? It was Brandon Jennings and his crew? Right, yeah, it was random, Yeah, it was random it yeah. Yeah. We went out and though. Yeah, that was dope, and that's where all that football stuff started coming from, because you start doing your ship after that then, because if tournament At first, after I played that football game, I told Snoop, I'm like, bro, let's do a flag football tournament. Because I was working with Damar and we played this game. It was comfort the worst Brandon from Guardina. Okay, yeah, so it was Compton vers Guardina. We had Compton jerseys and everything. That ship was hard though it was out there like really playing football. Yeah that it was fun. She was. Yeah. Well anyway, man, how are you in the family doing uh? Difficult different times? Uh, you know, obviously with the current climate you were in the bubble for a little bit. How's the family holding it down? Everybody holding it down? I mean bests as they can. You know, it's been like you said, it's been definitely a tricky time. You know, be there with your family the best you can, protect them, enjoy the moments. It's been a crazy triumph time that we've just been trying to push through. Man, just trying to make the best out of it. Every single day. Um, stay busy, stay moving, keep your mind occupied, because it's it's easy to fall into that that that that that darkness, and and and just be down every day. So just trying to keep everybody up the best, best best I can. That's what's up you. Uh, you got a chance to experience the bubble. Um, although you guys didn't make the players, you guys are there and got to play your final handful of games. What was that like? Um? The bubble was whatever you made it to be. You know. For me, I I treated like I was I was going to the Bahamas or something. Sitting on the eisland for a couple of weeks. It really it really was whatever you made it to be, you know what I mean? And and for me, I just took. I just took it for what it was worth. You know. I try to, you know, do a lot of reading, try to do a lot of different ships that kind of keep your mind going because it's easy to get caught up in just sitting in the room if you're not playing, or you're not in the gym, you know, and not you know, all you're gonna do is think about, you know, missing your family, missing all the cool whatever whatever you could be doing back home. So for me, you know, I was I was out there in the Bahamas for about eight weeks. M M, that's nice, I v yeah, hey hey, but but in total and hole, like, how how would you rate the experience? One question? And two did you watch the playoffs once you left the bubble? Um? I read it for for honestly, it kept us beyond safe. You know, we didn't have not not one case, you know, for us to go out there and play. How we played um every other day. You know, it worked out perfect. Um, it sucks not being able to play in front of your your family are fans as it is, it's it definitely was different. It definitely was was different. But just me being a hooper, all I cared about having as having the opportunity to hoop um. And once I left, I for sure watched every single game. I watched every single playoff game um, just to see how guys perform, you know, coming being in the bubble and leaving out the bubble, just to have two different perspectives, to know what it's like to be in there and see a lot of those guys performing the way they did. It's tough, man, it's tough. You know, a lot of a lot of us kind of feed up, feed off the crowd and that energy and the build up and have your own energy when the playoffs came. That was that was one thing that I was interested in seeing, and a lot of guy I showed that you it still seemed like you know, you look at damn. It looked like Dan was playing in front of people. You know what I like, And it's hard to do it when you out there. They don't show it on TV. But the other side of that camera is just a blank, black fucking wall, and you see, you won't see nothing but people eyes because it's you got the reporters sitting over there with their masks on and they're on a computer. It's just it's just an awkward feeling. So you gotta definitely generate your home, your own different mentality to go out there and who right, So you're born and raised um in Compton. Compton is probably one of the most famous neighborhoods in the world. Between music, between movies, between the athletes, between violence. Tell us what it was like growing up there? I mean, I wish I could tell, uh you hit the story, but like for me, it was so normal until I was able to get to the to the lead, to be able to see, you know, the other side of the fence. To compare the way I grew up. You know, it's just a natural instinct growing up and competent to understand, you know, where to go, we're not to go with time to go somewhere, how to maneuver, you know, It's just a natural survival instincts that you kind of grow with and all you cared about was whatever you cared about. For me, it was hooping, you know what I mean. It was always hooping, hanging out with with with with my partners, with my with my family. And with that came I understanding how to move and be safe. You know, before I walked out the house. My mama said, I don't care what you do as long as you walk your gas back in this house safe and sam, you know, And that was life for eighteen nineteen years, you know, and time I made it out and you start to realize, like god, damn this, I had to grow through this ship, you know, and you start you start to realize the guys that's in that position that don't know you try to go back there and give them a different type of motivation and understanding at like, this is not life. You know, it's so much more to life. That's that that that could bring you a whole different type of mindset to want to be successful, be somebody, be something, you know, be the one to make the chance for your family, because you know, growing up in Compton, you don't know, You really don't know. You only know what you see. Yeah, you only know what you see. When did when did basketball become a part of your life? How? At what age? Um? My dad always put me in sports early on, Like I played t ball. Um, try to do everything, you know, I'm always trying to moment everything I've seen. You know, when they when they do boxing, So we used to slap boxing in the streets. Um, you want to do whatever you've see, um in our culture, that's what you kind of link lean on. UM. And for me, basketball probably stuck when I was probably like seven eight years old. It was just one of those things to where you know, um, my imagination took over for all the things I've seen growing up, you know, watching all if it's Jordan, Kobe, all these players, and you're going back home reenacting moves, pouring water on top of your head, acting like you're sweating, acting like you're doing a move, and you know, that became my imagination day in the day out to where I wanted to do it on the court. And it just stuck with me, stuck with me. Before you know it, you know I started getting tall, our start getting better, I started doing different things, and you know I just just ran off with it from there about six seven years old. M m Um Kobe, Uh, you know obviously rest in peace. Being someone who's from l A and grew up you know as a youngster when Kobe first got in the league, how important he was to you. Arrest somewhere that you you said you cried when he shot those air balls in Utah because you're you're seven, seven or eight years old, like that's how when tuned you were with him. So this is kind of a two hard question. How important was he to you as a person, as someone you modeled your game after it looked up to. And then how important is he to the to the culture into the energy of l a um. For me, Cole was was my imagination that was a player, you know. Obviously, as I got older and able to look at Michael Jordan's he became one of my favorite players. But growing up, when I start to understand and comprehend basketball at at at a young age, it was from Cold being a legal fan. We didn't have cable. All we had was channel k CAL nine. When when the Labors came up channel nine that was the only channel we had. So I watched every Laker game growing up and Cold was the one that I gravitated to and for me to see the start the fails, um, I remember begging my dad, Um, could we go get a newspaper just so I could see what he said after the game, you know, comments after game. Little ship like that gave me an emotional connection to to one of my favorite players. That made me want to push harder when when when it came to want to play sports, especially basketball. You know, I'm seeing how you got better the things he went through. Um So the culture of l A for me from me being thirty one now, it's based around you know, being man like, the energy, always being Kobe, you know obviously, you know, I always hurt, always heard the stories like my dad and you know, my uncle's always talking about you know, the showtime Lakers. That's kind of like their generation. But for people my age, like you can't think about the Lakers without thinking about Kobe. You know. I didn't think about that, you know what I mean. And it's just it's just that like period when you think about that yellow and goal, you think about being you know what I mean. And that's how it is in my mind. I mean, that was one thing I talked about. You know. I came here in nine d straight out of high school and never really left. And I told people that like the world lost a superstar, but l A lost a superhero, like he was everything to l A, you know, And I talked about my experience, but like I said, his first time in the league was right when I was at u C. L A. So we were crossing passing like like you said, be able to being able to see his growth, like right next to you was dope, you know what I mean. So he was so much more than just a basketball player. His energy, his his everything was you know, the essence of l A. And it's it's sad man that that we lost him in gig and obviously everyone else on that plane that day. But you know, rest in peace to our brother man without so very decorated high school player Compton High. I mean, you had all the accolades, McDonald's, All American, Jordan Brand Parade, All American, you name me, you did it. What was your recruiting process? Like you ended up down, you know, down the city of sc But did you see l A ever crossed your mind? And where worlse were you uh seriously considering about going to college at UM? I took a couple of unofficial visits with the Florida State. UM checked out Florida State. Florida State scared the ship out of me because that's when they started having hurricanes. That's when the hurricane thing was going on. And me being from l A, like I wasn't I wasn't used to that Um, it was too far from It was too far from home, Like I never left home, you know what I mean. Like I visited North Carolina. You know it was a prestige school that you know it was. It was definitely intimidating when I went. When I went, and was like, and it's a big school. That's what I want to be a part of. But too too far away from school. Um checked the old Cow. Cow was closer, but I just didn't get a vibe from Cow, like you know, I fit in. U c l A was was one, but it was too boogie for me. I ain't gonna lie it was. It was like it was boo, g and ship when I went, and it was just like nah, and when I went to when I was when I went to C it was more so it was like a raw feeling because you know, as she never really had like that, you know, star power really come out there like you know U. C l A had, you know, and it's in the middle of the hood, into the middle hood, you know what. You know what boy felt that boy felt right at home. Yeah, I feel I feel comfortable. So when I went, you know, I always try to follow the model of like man I don't want to go nowhere where everybody a bunch of other people did all this stuff at You know, I wanted to go somewhere and kind of, you know, be a reason why other people come here, you know, And once once I got that feel of understanding like damn it ain't really did nobody come out of here. Let me try to put my stamp on it and leave out of here saying I did some or I helped motivated these other kids from l A. Don't want to come to USC because you look back at everybody's going to u c l A. You know what I mean, Like all the guys I grew up watching It's Matt b D. Like I go down to the line. There's guys that with the u c l A. And it's like, man, let me be one of those guys when later on in my career, I want to I want a young cat to come to me and be like man with the sc because you you know what I mean, and that that was kind of one of the things I did, you know what I mean. And it's crazy, even with Nick, Even with Nick, I tell it's crazy. That's all the time. You know. He was part of the reason why I went to because you know, I remember visiting at hes C and he was in there and working out killing and I'm like, I could I know he from up the street. So it's like, damn he went here. Alright, cool, I'm gonna come here. I'm gonna do whatever he did, but better so how I'm looking at him. Somebody could come here and look at me and do the same thing, you know. And that was my mindset, and that's what led me to, you know, I want to stay home and go to see shout out uh this this past February. You had your jersey it tie to sc Yeah. Yeah, talk about that, man. It was. It was. It was crazy, man, it was. It was. It was one of those things to where I know it was mentioned, it was mentioned to me, and I was just like hell no, you know I I wasn't even thinking about it, you know, at that time. It was so much crazy stuff going on in the the beginning of the year. Um, so the school to call and you know, say we want to surprise you and you of you with retiring your jersey. You know, it was it was beyond a honor, you know, and it was it was something that you know, I couldn't believe to come back home also our weekend, have family and friends there to see my jersey go up, go up there after you know, during a year um of school. You know, that goes back to my point of like, damn, I'm glad I took this route. It was a hard It was a hard route, you know, but this is why you do it years later to come back and be able to see your jersey get lifted up in front of your family, friends, and and and being bedded for life. Yeah was that? Was that? Was that your best memory as as a Trojan? Yeah? Yeah, for sure when when in the Pectin tournament, um the first time in school history. That that was probably I gotta definitely put that number one. Was that Was that your freshman year? Yeah? That was you were You were m VP of the weren't you MVP of the tournament too? Yeah? Mvp. They counted us out. I remember going into the tournament day for us to get to the n c A tournament we had to win out to just get a spot for the big tournament. So I just remember that whole that that the game the night before I remember just telling guys like we're about to go all out, man, Like I don't plan on coming back to school, so we gotta get this tournament. We gotta get in the tournament. We gotta get it. And to do that and get m VP of it. Man, it was, it was, It was. It was some some that that I still remember to the day. Right, that was kind of like the first taste of the pros for of still you know what I mean, to go play at the Stable Center, like where the Lakers play at and Comma out there scalping tickets, selling tickets, like it was a real vibe. Remember that pulling up. Yeah, I remember pulling up in the bus and it was like, damn, this was just like this. Yeah, it was at first time straight up. So ninth overall pick to Toronto, a care from Compton that got to stay home and go to USC and then you're drafted to go play in Canada. What was your first thought? No, it's okay. I didn't have a passport, right, I didn't even have a passport. And I remember when I got drafted, like I was terrified because nobody and my family had a passport, Like a couple of people can't even get a passport, Like like I remember going I remember going in like it seemed like I was going to a different world, you know what I mean, Like it was it was completely different from anything that I ever could expect then trying to prepare myself for winners. I had no clue about the winner. I still look, we come from California. We don't have like coats, we don't because we were set around. We don't have jackets, we didn't. I didn't have none of that. Bro, I'm still wearing low top chucks, you know what I mean. Like, like you know, it was it was definitely adjustment. And you know, I didn't have nobody with me. I was by myself, like my first year, Like it was just me, you know what I mean. So it was definitely adjustment, but it was it was beneficial for me because that it made me want to learn more on the court and and and stay in the gym, you know. And I didn't have no distractions. That was my only choice. Bro, I didn't even know where to go eat. I'm still I was still eating like gy Rose on the corner, fucking from the meat stand. Like I'm still going down there getting a little gy Rose eating street meat and all that ship go back to the to the room and wouldn't leave out and talking. I go to the gym, man, Like, that's my whole year was that, you know what I mean? Culture shocked man. That was a loaded draft too. That was Blake Griffin went one, James Harden went three, steph went seven. You went nine. So that was that was that was a nice draft. Yeah, what was your most memorable night about draft? You know, excuse me? What was your most memorable story about draft night? Um? That my phone bill was due and I didn't have no money to pay it. The next day the phone bill, people think you rich, already got money and all that ship, right. I remember my phone was going off and I'm like, God, damn, I'm my bill gonna be fucking crazy. I'm gonna pay this ship tomorrow. And I remember stressing because everybody was texting me that whole night. And I'm sitting up there laughing like I'm about to get drafted and I'm worried about my phone bill. But for the far, just just just sitting there at the table with my mom, you know, knowing everything she's been through. She she she my heart, my strength. You know, I've seen her go through so much stuff my dad. You know, just just to have them to there, to to see that moment meant everything for me because you know, I remember them along Knights and them trying to figure out how we're gonna keep the lights on, how they're gonna feed me this that you know, so much ship that that day that went on them throughout my childhood that I just wanted to pay them back and to see them so happy, more than I've ever seen before in my life. You know what it may, it may the sacrifice all worth it. Yes, what's up? What was your welcome to the NBA moment? Shoot? Add a lot of those man um ship. Man. I remember I remember playing against Brandon Roy. Oh, and I don't know how nice Brandon Roy was. Listen, listen, I tell everybody that stuff, Like my my, it was Brandon Roy brother like, and the way he did it was so effortless, like I didn't even exist on the court. Like it was the most disrespectful ship I ever like encountered that that for for years, it made me so upset that he did me like that, But that was him, you know what I mean? And in I always wondered, like, man, people don't know how Brandon Roy really was. He was a problem. He was a problem, you know what I mean, And and he welcomed me to the league, you know for real, Like that was a tough one. But for the most part, it was like every single night for me was something new, like and it's crazy so as I don't know if you remember this. I remember we was playing against when he was in Charlotte, right, I remember somebody got into it. I ain't gonna say who got who, who said something, but you got into it with somebody and on my team, and they said, they said, no, my bad, Stack, and you said, yeah, I know, motherfucker. And the motherfucker turned around and then say nothing back. Right, So I'm like, what is this like? You know what I mean. I remember you hit him. Look you hit him on the chest. He said, I know it show far and the motherfucker turned around, and I'm like, I'm like, listen. It was. It was a lot of moments like that was besides like the Whoman, that was a welcome to the league for me, you know what I mean. Like I remember Shock, I remember Shack always telling somebody like, motherfucker, bet too in the thousand, you won't do this right. I'm like, yes, bro, this is going on, like you know what I mean? Like all those was a lot of like I know, I know you're right about Shock on me to cut you out, but I gotta tell this story about Shock and Shock was very disrespectful to the referee. Shack was talking so bad to the referee one time Matt and Me and Jaman and it was like, you're not gonna call a tech like somebody blow a whistle. He looked at us right in front of the referee and he told all of us this, I have a half of five hundred million in the bank. What the funk are he gonna do to me? I said? This was during the game, Matt, me and Jail just walked back to the free throw line and got ready to box. What say so? So those moments for me like was like my welcome to the lead ship. What was like? Yo? This and I like to this day I always told God, especially young guys now like y'all don't know how I was like, I'm so appreciative to be able to play against y'all, you know what I mean, because that gives a different type of push on on the passion of the game. How it used to be night in and night out, like like I remember Cold. I remember my rookie year. Cold was like, no, it was my my second year. League. Cold came up with me and told me, said, I'm a value every time down. I bet you they don't call the fucking foul. He used to be like you know what I mean. It's like like like he was a hacky motherfucker boy. Oh man, mother will he will beat you up and not like you feel me. So it's like my rookie year, I had so many of those moments into me. That's that was was the craziest ship to me because you don't know what it was like. It's not like that now. But I'm glad I played against y'all era of that ship because that that was some games and ship. Man, it was a lot of games you ship going on on the court. He said, there was a lot of gangsters. You know. It's crazy. Is to here is to hear him talk about this. He came in in ten. You know, you finished fourteen. I finished seventeen. But to hear like our era, like yeah, we're getting old bro our era. That's crazy. It's fun. Yeah, yeah, man, that's crazy. We survived it though, We made it out. Yeah, where where are they now? They know we at on every TV in the motherfucking world. God David. Yeah, so you go into the Man, you go into Toronto. You didn't play with Bosh at all? Right, he left the year you came. How was it we just had him on the show recently? How was it playing with Bosh Man? It was? It was amazing, you know, to be able to know him. I was teaming up with, you know, one of the dynamic players all Stars at that time, he being a rookie, obviously knowing and understanding his game, who he was, and seeing his work ethic when I came in. I remember, Um, I mean when I came in for training camp. Um, he didn't really do training camp because I think that that summer they had did the Olympics and some someone's going on. Um, and I remember like wondering, like, damn, why ain't doing training camp? Not knowing you know, he's better and he's going through all that. But I always used to just watch his work ethic way he even if he didn't practice, how he approached the weight room when he was in the gym working out. Once he got on the court, everything he did, how he translated over to the court, and how he us just used to go out there and dominant, go out there and get forty forty five. Next thing you know, he on the he on the plane drinking something. And I'm like, damn you doing this the next night, next night, next night, you know, don't practice, go out get thirty seven when you know what I mean. It was like, and my I ain't doing this. This motherfucking is nice. So a lot of a lot of a lot for me was always just watching, you know. Um um. Then once we got a little bit closer, you know, having a conversation. You know, he always used to give me a little little small gyms and I always used to just run run with him from there, you know. And I never understood the business that young. But when guys were selling me like yeah, you know he Chris is out of here, and what you mean we still got thirty games left in the season, It's like, yeah, you know, he's probably leaving. I'm like, what you mean? You know what I mean. But it was one of those things where I thought I was gonna come up on the CEB and learn from him. But that year, um, even with him not knowing, you know, I you know, every time I see him, I tell him much. I appreciate him, um just helping me unknowingly by just watching his approach to the game, how you carried itself and everything he did. But for me, it was dope to be able to play with the least a year. Uh. Two questions? Were you a events fan before you got to Toronto? Did you did you feel any pressure? You know, we're walking in the footsteps because y'all some bus duncan motherfucker's boy. Yeah right, I definitely, I definitely was a Vince fan, especially when early on when I remember Toronto always just especially on the weekend. Toronto used to play them early as games like twelve thirty Eastern time, so he used to be nine o'clock nine thirty at a time. So I used to get up and always watch watch um Toronto games. Obviously everybody wanted to see what Vince was doing. Um how he always used to explode. So I always used to watch vins Um all those guys always was. I was. Vents is probably in my top five grunning up of players. You know that I always had to watch that. I just needed to watch see how you got down, always tried some ship he was doing. Um, so when I went, you know, I never felt like I had to you know, model my game or it was gonna be hard footsteps to follow, because you know, I just looked at it like that was one of my favorite players and I'm playing for the same team, going ahead and do do do whatever I can as myself. You know, I never tried to go out there and do anything he could. Um. But as time would buy to see me slowly start to like break so many Vince records, then I started looking at it like damn, like I never thought I would have did this, you know what I mean? So, um did it started later in my career started to look crazy and I feel crazy looking back on it, knowing that I grew up watching Vince. Now like every other day he's saying I just beat Vince record this, this, and every time I've seen him, whenever I did something, he was the first one to knowledge it. And you know it was that that part for me was was definitely crazy. Big yeah, yeah, no question, no question. Chris Bosh leaves you guys going to rebid old mode. You go from a rookie to like it's your time pretty much your team. How long did it take you to feel like you kind of really got your footing in Toronto? Um, because I wanted. I think that next year we was We was obviously terrible, but my my um, the coach at the time was like, you know, go for broke when it shooting. If you don't shoot, I'm taking you out. Who was the coach at the time. Who was the coach? Ja? Yeah, J Triana, J Triana. That was his last year and I would just remember, like you know, and now looking back on it, they wanted me to develop and just you know, go out there and be myself. So I went out there and just played played who Um. So that year was just tough because it was so much. I mean I was playing forty four minutes a game. It kind of just beat me. Yeah, you know what I mean. But it's show me what I needed to work on to try to survive for eighty two schedule playing against Roman getting beat up every single night. What I what I where I need to get stronger at, how to really take care of myself, take care of my body and all that. So, um, it wasn't it wasn't to my fourth year. So I really felt like, all right, I got this downpacked and I just took off running with it from there. You remember, you remember not wanting to come out the games then probably five six years then you're looking for them TV time out to looking for us up over there the first coming minute I go out of game bro. I know the TV commercials by heart. I know that when that six minute mark. But come, I'm about the foul, so be a dead boss, so be your time out what I'm yeah, that's the man? Yeah, man? How did the additions of Kyle Lowry and Dwayne Case to help you as a player and then as a as a leader of the team. So Case came my third year. Um, I want to say that was the lockout year. I want to say that was a lock of a year. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to say that maybe he was locking lock of a year. But when he came, we jumped right into it so quick, and you know, it was it was it was such a new addition to where you know, we're trying to figure this thing out. But it was completely it felt like another start over year for for me because we got a whole new staff, we got new players. Um, we're trying to figure it out. Um, but case let me be me to this day. Uh, Dwayne Casey, I wouldn't be the player I am to day if it was him. You know. He put the ultimate trust in me and trust in my working ethic and allowed me to be me. He never forced me to do anything I didn't want to do. He never pressure me none. He just completely I need to be myself. You know. Then when Cale Cale came to the team, Um, we ain't get along for the first year. We played together, like I swear, like best friends. Man, And that's that's my that's my dog. He know I fight him on us on the phone right now, he know it. But that first year it was so it was so different because Cal such a Philly He's such a Philly dude, and he's such a pest. Yeah, and you know he liked so me being always being laid back and chills. Always used just to watch him, like, man, who is he Like? I never talked to him. We never had a conversation my first year together. And I don't know, Yeah, I didn't have his number. We didn't go eat, we didn't sit by each other on the plane, we didn't nothing when I tell you nothing. Only time we talked when he called the play like you know what I mean. But um, what made me respect him was how hard he went like he was always the first dude, the first dude. He was the first dude that came in the gym in the morning. He didn't did he didn't got stretched, left shot, she got stretched again. And we're just walking in getting ready for practice. So now when practice come, it's like he chilling and practice. I'm not why you ain't practice, but he didn't worked out harder than what we're about to do in practice beforehand. Now it's just basically like a teaching tool for everybody. For him when we started practice, and he used to do that ship so effort like with no effort. So I used to just always watch him, always watching him to where you know, I had to do nothing but respect that. And as soon as I started doing that, we just started clicking unknowingly. And I remember that next year we made it to the playoffs, um, because we we had a tricky season earlier that season. Um, the following season, I think we started off like six and twelve. He was about to get traded. I was about to get traded. That was about to blow up the whole thing again. And I remember me and col just came together like, look, you already got a deal to get traded in a couple of days. They're just waiting on some some some ship to get final. And I had asked for a trade, and we was like, well, fun, we got a week left. And that week we we we played like like we was on the West Coast road trip. We left out of it like four or five. Next thing you know, we we wrote them. I'm talking about we beat some teams. We beat the Lakers. We we wouldn't go to State one. We beat some teams and we're back home to where it was like fuck it, let's just let's just let's go for broke. We hoop that that that season, I made the All Star team and we made it to the playoff play Brooklyn. That's when Brooklyn had everybody, all the old guys, KG, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, and we with seven games with him. My first time to the playoffs, most of us first time to the playoffs, and we just we without it. And I just remember how Cal played. I remember he all played, Darren Williams, he we was was going at it with with Joe Um Paul kg like and we held our own and lost Game seven by by point. And from that moment in the playoffs, I had nothing but respect for him because every day he laid it out there. He didn't care about if he bust his job, open bust his lit. He the first one to get up off the floor and keep pushing. So I think from the year that's what that just with like took off with our friendship and everything. That's crazy how it started. I ain't never heard that story. That's what's up. So that was two thousand and fourteen. You guys lose to uh to Brooklyn in the seven game series. Two fifteen, you guys lose to Washington two experiences. Like you said, you took some of the game seven. Then you get swept the following year. So you come into sixteen and you guys beat Indiana and seven, beat Miami and seven. Now you guys are on the East in the Eastern Conference, finds against Lebron. James paint that picture for me. So going into that UM, it was tough because we were putting ourselves in tricky situations the series. UM going Game seven it's a game seven, being mentally exhausted, exhausted, then going play against Cleveland, Um, give me, I think we got killed first two games in Cleveland, and you know, turned on ESPN seeing everything on social media basically saying like we we didn't have no chance um killing us, killing me and cal And you know, it was another conversation me and Cowe just sitting and a half. It's like, look, we we gotta go. We gotta go for broke man, Like, we just gotta go out there and let you know, we go back home. We went two games in a row. Um, then eventually we we we felt we felt to him in six. But you know, it was a big test for us because it was under so much and playing against Brown, you know, it was it was tough. You know, the experience wasn't there. We didn't really understand what it really took to kind of get over that hump. You know, we was fighting amongst ourselves trying to figure it out, but to get what we got being counted out beginning of the season to the season playoffs, you know, we did a lot. What was Battle of Lebron on that stage, Like, man, it was it was such a challenge because that was the first time in a in a moment like that of playing against the player that that was locked in, like like he was a coach, like he was like like you know, it was the first time like being in a series where you know, we call in to play and when our teammates came in the game and he forgets to play, we was running and Brian telling what to do on our play and it was like, yeah, you know, it's like small ship like that, you know what, Like, yeah, it just it just shows you, like, yo, dude is on a different level that none of us haven't been to or understand in the moment when it comes down to this, and it was it was, it was. It was crazy because it was like, you know, if everybody not on wint the court and everybody don't know what to do and you have a leader that that been in the moments that that that knows what it takes, you know, you're gonna fall behind the eight ball just off just off that mental, that mental side of the game. And you know, looking back at that moment, she shows you, like why it's so tough to beat this motherfucking them in them situations. It's hard to win beat just beat him four games, like and you're telling me we're not on the same page where you can't remember played, but this motherfucker don't play. Yeah, we we were was in it in for m so he would kind of be a roadblock for the next two years to seventeen and eighteen played them in the second round. He knocks you guys out. What was it like knowing that you guys were a good team but just not that next level because he was going to the finals every year and he obviously wasn't measuring stick. What was that like between you and Kyle and your team at that time? It was it was frustrating because every every time we got knocked out, we was trying to figure it out. We were just trying to figure out like our whole mindset when it came to the playoffs from that point on was you know, we gotta get past one person, Like we just gotta get past one person man, Like that really was the motive. How can we do that? What we need to be able to do that? And we just tried a whole bunch of stuff and every time we ran it to him. I think it's some ways we kind of like panic, trying to overdo it, try to overthink it instead of like, you know, making it simple for ourselves. And you know, we just kept finding ourselves in that same position, not being able to get over the arm. M hm. So obviously trades are part of the business, um what they say. But obviously you being someone who was you know, planted in the roots of Toronto, so to speak, um, and then you get traded for Kauai Leonard, what was it like? We're surprised. I've heard you speak on it a couple of times, but I, like, you know, our guests to hear, like, what was your thought when you're first like, yo, you're really getting traded right now? And then you hear you're getting traded for Quiet Leonard. M m Um. I remember that when we lost that that last series. I knew someone's gonna happen. Um. Rather you know, fire to Coach traded me or Cal. I just knew someone's gonna happen. And we we Me and Cal talked about it every day like and something's gonna happen, Something's gonna happ um. So a couple of weeks go by after we lost UM, then Bron Bron decided to go to l A. So we like, well, ship, that's the only person being lost too. Maybe we have one more chance at this thing, you know what I mean. Like and that kind of like ease that kind of like ease our our mind for a second, because we're like, man, it's only one more fucker that we that we haven't been able to get past, like fucking we're about to at least running back one more time and give it a shot. Um. And that was our mindset until you know, I kept hearing a few things, hearing a few things. So when it happened, Um, when I got the call being traded, Um, it was I was like at a movie premiere or something. I remember, I left, I got the call, and I was in the car. I got out the car, so walking down the street, and it just it tripped me out because it's like, you know, at that time, you know, I was nine years in, fully dedicated, and I was just trying to you know, I wanted to get one more shot at it, especially with Brian being gonna you know, and not that get the opportunity. I think that's what hurt the most instead of getting traded, because you know, I had in my mind that you know she ain't gonna last forever, you know, in a sense of like, you know, something's gonna happen if if we don't get to the finals or compete for a championship, you know what I mean? Um So for me, just not getting the opportunity hurt, hurt the worst. So you're getting traded for Kauai the year Lebron leaves, leaving the team that we were drafted by nine years with, leaving your best friend, seeing Kawai go over there in them triple bounced their way into the finals, the Warriors drop life flies and you see your team that you were just traded from, that you put your blood, sweat and tears in it win a championship. How difficult was that to kind of digest and kind of understand? Man, it was tough from the standpoint of you know, all you it started to seem like I was the problem. You know. That was the most frustrating part, was like people looking at it, Oh they're doing it soon as see so as he leave, oh see, maybe he was the problem the whole time. That was the most frustrating part for me, you know. And and that was the part that sucked and hurt it the most of me because it's like, man, any any real motherfucker's like, look, we can get past one person. You're trying to me with the problem. The problem went to l A, that's problem. You know what I'm saying. You're telling me that, Come on, you know what I mean. But that was the part that was more frustrating that you know, the common minded person who just watching sees sees the game or sees them go all the way and look at it like see, yeah, all we have to do is get more out of here, and you know they go all the way, you know what I mean. I think that was the frustrating part that every single day it used to make me want to last shout like and say something. But I'm like, no, I'm I'm just I'm gonna just eat it. I'm gonna just I'm gonna I'm gonna just deal with it. I'm gonna deal with because at the same time, all my potler is still there, people that basically raised me, still working that organization that I still talked to to this day. Um So every single guy, I think I said it over and over, every single guy when they struggled in the series. I had a bad game. I was the first one to texting tell them, you know, hold your head, try to do this, do this. When they won, I was the first person of texting every last person that I played with on that team told him congratulations FaceTime on that same night. So it was never no animosity towards them. It was just more so like the perception of the whole thing was more frustrating than anything what a real would do. Mm hmm. Now in San Antonio, how does it? How was it been building a relationship with Pop? I know, with me, I needed Pop coming until the beginning of my career because I talking about to be a professionally, talking about be a man. And he taught me how to prepare myself, to earn my menutes and and and to stay on the court, a lot of different things with me. But how was it building a relationship with Pop one of the great I would? I think it was easy? Um for me, you know, coming in being an established player, you know, um, listen, you know I never had on issues or anything. I was always always all ears so coming in, you know, just being able to build you know, more than anybody stack when he said let's break bread together, on the dinners and all that you sit and talk to him and had them conversations and you know, you know, pick each other's brain. You know, it was it was It was a great simple transition. You know what. I remember my first probably like twenty games, Popo, you just called me right after the game, before I even got home, and you know, you know, give me certain you know, if advice that I needed, you know, take it easy, to take it slow, don't worry about this, this, this, and it kind of made my transition real, real, smooth and easy, um for me. So it was great, you know for the most part. Other he gives. He gives a different dynamic as a coach. You know, you don't know more than anybody's that as far as like, you know, putting life in perspective, not just basketball, you know. Uh, for me, I think that's that's a dope quality to be able to go to work and and have some days to really break down that you know, we play basketball for living. We get paid a lot of money and play basketball, but you know it's a real reality of life that's going on, you know, and really put things in perspective. So for me, that that's been a dope part to be able to have a conversation and talk to him about Yeah, it was. It was a fine line of things that he made me understand, Like it's it's cool. It's cool to to come into this game and be a basketball player and do all this, but at the same time, everything else you gotta earn. There's nothing's gonna be given to Yeah, you're a basketball player, you have the great life, but in real life, you have to earn it. And that's what I always got from Pop. You know what I'm saying. Get you in the NBA. I love you. Y're gonna treat you like a son. I want your part of this organization. But in real life you have to earn everything. Yeah, yeah, And it's dope and he always and you know, you know what's crazy, my bad man to cut you off. It's always funny speaking about Popping all that. I remember Pop. They told me a story about when y'all was playing the Golden State. Y'all had just gotten an argument, something happened um about some and y'all before the game. He played your music video in the locker room and like in front of everybody, like I how you told the story when he said, y'all, I just got into it or something, and the making light of the whole situation where y'all came in the locker room for the game he played, he played one of the rest video. That's you know, we all we all sat down for film. I remember that. So he played, he didn't play me. He's pulled me out the game last game. I was mad, So I can't you know me mad. I showed up to shoot around and practice the next day. Attitude, don't want to be there. You know what when I was starting at that I was starting at the time, and so I come to the locker room. I ain't say nothing to him all day. You know, Tim was trying to get me out of it. Man. We said down, man, you know I got the mug on video. Come on through feting ready prep for the game. It's one of my I was one of my rout videos. Everybody busts out laughing dogs. But he knew what he knew what he was doing because it got me out of it. You know what I'm saying. They got everybody and he's a genius at that ship. Yes, yes, that's so. That's that's my point to speak on pop on how fucking much of a gens he is so all of a sudden, now you know what I mean? Now you don't forgot the whole situation. You know that's what's up. There was mind games, that's if that's what Phil Jackson was great. That was one thing I appreciate about him, the way he moved and knew how to push people's buttons to get the best out of him. You guys are in a tough Western conference with a good mix of vets and young players. Obviously, you know rumors swirl in the off season. Um, you hear it just like we hear it. But when you hear you possibly to the Lakers. Like being someone who grew up in l A. Who was you know, Kobe was quote unquote your m J. I know you're a spur, but growing up, did you ever pitch yourself in that purple and goat? No? Of course, no question, of course, Oh yeah no, I was. I was, you know, I was. I was with his dad. I was a showtime That's where I grew up as so it was always a dream of mine to put the purple and gold. You kind of you kind of remind me of a light skinned Michael Cooper, you're stupid as hell. The high socks and the baby shorts. But hey, but hey, but you said light skinned because you and cook for about two y'all the same color. Facts. Facts, Go ahead, go ahead, the yeah, no, without a doubt, you know what I mean. You always have them dreams of doing it, you know what I mean. And and for me, it's it's I've learned bingl EA so long the tape like it's it's you always want to be wanted, you know what I mean. So when you see things about teams wanting you, you know you can't feel a certain type of way, you better feel good about it, because it's it's some other funks that not wanted. That that that's that's you know, you know you don't want to be you don't want to be that person, you know, So to be wanted by by championship team that just came off a championship, you know, to see that, you know, how how could you not feel some type of especially needed being from l A. It's like, damn, you know, my my hometown team want me. They just came off a championship. They want me, you know what I mean. So it definitely Um, it's crazy to be able to see that, you know what I mean? But anybody know whatever jersey I got on, you know, I'm I'm gonna leat it out there on the line and represent it. That's why I can. You always want to be in the wanted category. You don't want to be in the wanted categories. They don't want a category. Trust me, I know, where do you got? Where do you guys? Where do you guys practice? Jack? What's the little area called that they practice in the San Antonio? What's the city called that the practice facilities in? Do you know? Uh? San Antonio is in? San Antonio's started eight? It started eight? Uh, I don't know the let's see, I forgot it's been away anyway, San Antonio or Elsa Gundo down by the San Antonio, Elsa Gundo by the beach. But now this, uh, this interview is no either way, you're gonna get some your Mexican food. I'm to my real mexicool. Not that not that, not that text makes ship. I'm talking about real Mexican food. Yeah, l A and Texas. I mean, this interview is not gonna drop for a couple of weeks because obviously we team double Complex and Complex Land for this. So I'm just putting it out there. By the time this drops, hopefully you'll be a Laker. I'd like to see you in that uniform. You don't have to come in on it. That's just my personal opinion. You don't want to get you in trouble. But that's that's what I'm like. That's good to me, Matt, straight up. I can say that all I want. Yeah, it looks good to us. The Hall of Fame class Kobe kg duncan talk about that man you name name another one that's that's that's that got some great names like that, That's that's ship man like that man, that's one of those ones that I wish I could go to it and be able to witness just all the greatness that's around man. Like like you said, rest in peace, Kobe, I wish I wish I was being was there too. You know, here's here speech, you know, but it's I don't see I don't see another class that that that could top that with them, Guys, I'm dead man. You're talking about arguably one of the best shoot guards of all time. Um to the best power forwards of all time. Come on, man, it's it's it's crazy. It's crazy. And February two, thou eighteen, Um, outside of basketball, to me, you did one of the most important things you've ever done, probably without even knowing at the time, but you discussed your battles with mental health. And it's been something that in our community in particular, to show weakness from from a child, is that it's weak. You don't do it. You don't you don't complain, you don't do this, you don't do that. You're tougher out. We're talked to tougher out. We're taught not to cry, We're taught to be tough. And you broke your silence. What made you break your silence? Uh, the way you did on Twitter? Um, I think like the week before All Star weekend, we was on the road. We was on the road and I hadn't seen my kids and in a while. Man, it was on the road, and I remember I think we played like in Shock Chicago or something. I flew home All Star weekend, so I get a couple of days before, you know, the all the weekend festivity start. So um, in my mind, I'm thinking I'm going home and see my kids, not knowing like I'm a startup of the All Star team in l A where I'm from. Everybody in a mama accent for something. Everybody wants something. Everybody and Mama think we're about to hang out and kick it. The only thing on my mind is to go see my kids, spend time with them. And I remember getting home and it's like, as soon as I touched down, everybody in the mama just pulling it and pulling it and pulling it and needing someone on and some got something to say this that, and it's like, I just want to see my kids, man like putting a different type of pressure on me and that, and and I think I just had a build up of being fatigued from the season. Um people just on my head and just the overwhelmness, overwhelming of everything that that was going on. I just remember laying down in the middle night, like three o'clock in the morning, like, man, I got nobody talked to man, I go to Twitter. I tweeted, man I lay down, not knowing the next day we got uh media, not knowing the whole media is gonna be there and asking me questions about this tweet. And I remember waking up, um, everybody calling me like, man, you know what you just tweeted? What you mean this? And that? Like it was? It was it was so much stuff to where it's like damn, and it just put me in a place like, man, fuck it. Man, I've been through so much in my life. I'm just about to express and say what's on my mind and what I've been the way because I've been internalizing so much stuff that I had never even dressed growing up in Compton, from high school, of things that I've seen witness and been through, things I went through in college, things I was going through at the time, like so much, so much pain and frustration and things that we get so great at just sweeping under a rug. You just got to a point to where it was just it was just built up and I was lashed out, you know what I mean. And and it turned out to be something that became a tool and and and something I can help other people with. Yeah, well that's what I always say. You know sometimes when people say why do you share stuff publicly? Because it was just for the with what you said, it's tools for other people, you know what I mean, when they see someone on the levels we've been to in the Cops that we've accomplished. Knowing that we battle with the same kind of stuff um that they do makes us more relatable first and foremost, but then also encourages people, you know, and and it brings a voice to what what has been voice us in our community for so long, you know. Ic sually, Kevin Loves spoke on it, Dak Prescott spoke on it. Paul George recently spoke on it about being in the bubble um. Is this anything that you've talked to other people who have experienced it, not necessarily like praid paid help, but other players or people who have gone through what you've gone through with your depression. Yeah, And it's crazy because it's like I find myself having a conversation with people that people would never think have something going on, and the being able to have that dialogue with people, and you see the weight left off their shoulders from just feeling comfortable with another person that you know, you know they've been through something and can kind of you know, you kind of feel different, you know. I mean I always tell people it's like, you know, why why do we listen to music? Our music changed every single day because we probably can relate to it and make us feel better. We we get someone else story of what they got going on in their life, what makes us feel better because it don't make us go along, you know what I mean. It's the same way for people. But so many people just scared to share that story and and and want to sit in front of another person because they're scared to being judged or this and that. You know, For me, I just got to points where it's like, can't nobody come at me or degrade me for for for my morals or what type of man I've been through? Because what type of man I am? Because I know what I've been through, I know what I made it through. I know why I'm at in my life now. So um, you know, just giving somebody else those words will will definitely do a lot. That's so we definitely commend you for your braveness because like you said, it's it's tough. A lot of people don't have the courage to speak up on it, and and and you putting it out there, like you said, we're able to use it as a vehicle to help us, which is dope, man, So good work with that. Recently, Uh, p J. Tucker claims to be. I don't know if it's self reclaimed or everyone, but he claims to have the most shoes and I saw that you almost or did you outdo him? I mean you got a gang of shoes talking to us about your shoe collections. So p J is my man. We played together for a year. Um, but you know p J shows off his shoes. I love him to death, but when it comes to them shoes, I've always been a modest person, Like you know, I played a black background with everything I do. I just sit back and watch anything. But it was just one day I was in a good mood. I was like, man tongue, keep posting the shoes. Don't make me like kill off your shoe collections. Yeah you know what I mean. It was just one of those moments like I know, I know who the I know who the Kobe guard is man. Yeah, yeah heard Martin got about four five d ms for me. Asked the shoes. It's nobody. There's nobody by far i've seen with the cleanest Kobe is. He's definitely no. When it comes when it comes to coach by Far and not one person in his NBA I used to tell I used I used to tell being man, I said, you're the only person who got more shoes. Got you got more your shoes than me? Like that's it. I used tell them all it's out. I used to I used to get shoes from him everything ever since I was in the twelfth grade in college, like, man, I need those, like so um that that that would be my thing. So you know it was. It was one of those moments with with PJ, Like, you know, I love people, I know people love on them shooting that the head out there and love shoes. So it's just one of those things where I was just like I'm a um, I'm gonna Tucking just just just makes it fun of him. Ship, No, you got you got, you got some shoes. You definitely could compete. I tell you this, I tell you that. So how many do you think you have? And why? You know, every everybody's a lot of people that say they should be sneakerhead king. You know you got Djo, you got PJ Tuck, You've got a lot of people. So how many do you think you have? And why should you wear the crown? I give you the crown for Kobe? Why should you think you should be the sneakerhead crown um. One, I don't show of my shoes. Two it's been just been okay, a lot of people show off their shoes and one of flex like they got It's cool. You could anybody could pull out four pair of exclusions and be like, look, I got them all. But let's see the whole Let's see the whole thing. Let's see the whole thing. Let's see the you know what I mean, not just not just your closet, because I got a couple of closets and a couple of houses that's full of like some some months, and I got some stories, just got some storages, and I got like, you know what I mean. It becomes a whole different type of game. You'll want to play the shoe game, like, nah, don't you don't want this, Don't you don't want this smoke when it comes come to it. Nah, man, that's funny, that's funny. So obviously talking about codes, I heard a story about earlier on your career. You wore them, obviously been wearing them since the twelfth grade when you played against Kobe Did you wear his shoes? Did you wear a different shoes so so earlier on I remember, I remember who's saying something to me? Uh? I want to, I want to. I'm gonna as Vince if you remember this. I remember Vince. We was playing against Vince. I want to say. Was he playing in Phoenix or something? Vince was like, when you play against Code, did you wear shoes? I'm like, you know I have meant yet, Like why now you you know I was supposed to wear somebody your appoint opponent shoe, a black something like. All right, So next time I played Colde, I wore some Jordan's bro fucking bang. I should have did as soon as I walked on the court. As soon as I walked on the court, Colde was like, oh that's what we're doing, motherfucker, and didn't say nothing to me the rest of the game. Ry and you just sounded so much like it right there when he said that, you sounded just like Kobe right there. Dude, that's crazy. He was h he was off. What that game? I swart a guy. You can find a game too, bro. I remember he hit the game when a shot in Toronto, Bro, I remember I had hit when somebody hit a shot put us up like one just they called the time out front of our bench. This motherfucker's walked past our bench when was in the hun said you left me too much time, came out, hit the game, win it right. So I was like, man, so at the game and talked to him. He was like like, damn, man, my bad. You know, blah blah blah. So we went in the whole conversation. That's kind of like when the whole like the Team Mama things started coming about, you know what I mean, like, all right, cool, look, look we're gonna start this whole Mama thing off. You're gonna be the one that that kind of kicks it off with the shoes and anything. Yeah, I just I just ran off with it. That's what That's a that's a crazy story. That's yeah. I don't think I never told that. Yeah, but yeah, I swear to god that was him when you said it, because he didn't said that plenty of times. That ship was crazy man. So that's that's how that's how Team Mama started. Yeah, it was like that conversation from that to where it was like, look, look we're just gonna do it from here. You you you you the main option when it comes to it to this, and from then I had start rocking them um all exclusively because I want to say like that next year he started, you know, he had the knee injury at to show the injury. He started, you know, getting hurt in the last couple of years to be the first one to wear the shoes. So I started to be the first one to debut all the shoes um and doing them in our color way, and it just kind of took off from there. That's hell, what's your relationship like with Drake? See, dud you was in Tronto for nine years, he's sononyous with the culture. He's worked his way to team Ambassador Ovo practice facility. You know what I mean. It's just it's just all there. What's your relationship like with him? Man? That's that's that's my dog and all. Honestly, besides two years and anything, that's really that's really one of my opartments. One of my friends. I called them acts for anything. Hit him whatever I need, you know what I mean. That's really really one of my pottish great dude man, been the same since day one. My first you know, my my rookie year was you know, the start of his career, you know, so to come up and have that relationship with him through through the whole process has definitely been been one of a con you know, to see where he had now and you know he's been to the house, you know, you know my dog man, good dude, have you have you been to the city drake that new house he got? No, I was supposed to go and we played in Toronto, but he didn't get in time. Get get back in town of time, um man um this past year. But I definitely want to see that man, crazy man. All right, last us. We're in the home stretch right here. Three artists. You're currently listening to three. Oh that's a good one. It could be old anybody whoever, whoever you're listening to right now, three of them. Man, that's a good one. Mm hmm. You know what's crazy. I've been listening um Keen von rest in Peace, Mr Peace, k von rescup Peace more three too yeah three? Um you know Keen von lady, Uh my dog problem. I'm poler for contact and listen to him. He got something. He got some new music coming. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah music, yeah yeah, he got he just dropped some new new um new one cushion coffee not to a couple of a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, okay, um who else? And then, um, I keep it simple man came rest in peace? Yeah always h You already know if you made a soundtrack of your life three songs, you would have a rotation two parts. So many uh so many tis h yeah classic u um um oh that's a gooing that one for show? Um oh damn, oh that's a going one. You got look at my playlist damn Yeah, yeah, we got we got him now, mad, we got him now mad. Yeah. I don't want to I don't want to just say anything right right, I said, so many tears is a good start, though, I got that. That's the hell of a start. Um Ken Drake Element mm hmm. Gotta go to kid drink Element. That's that's a deep that's a deep one. Yeah. We need some new Kendrick music too. Oh it's it's coming. Um who's it going? Mm hmm said some minutes kids you them Element, some drags, some nip who else? Yeah, um uh stuck in the grind Yalla. I played that song like. I played that song like ten times today driving back from my workout just kept playing. Yeah, yeah, that's a good call. I like that. I like that. Um, toughest player you've ever had, the guard um Kevin Martin. Mm hmm, well sne I was a sneaky one right there. Yeah, very people. Don't forget that, mother Kevin Martin. Yeah, and he was someone who learned. He learned how to get that running. Flo shipped off too. He started doing it before the heat, anybody before Louie. He he was a pro with that ship you he's the first one easily go shoot fourteen sixteen three day he was. But Kevin, But Kevin Martin, he would He would fool you though, because not only was good with getting files, but he didn't guard you. So you think that he let me score is easy? Should I let him scored? Is easy? Guard nobody? He wasn't guard nobody. Dogs. Come on, now, he wasn't guarding nobody. I said him. I know, I know that was I know that was a random one, but it was him in for short D way Flash, Yeah the way early on when he was Flash, when he used to have the whole skin report. Don't let him cross back over and reject the screen. You gotta make him either way, either way, he was in trouble. You knew that ship was coming. He's still doing it. Set you up and cross you right back to the baseline every time. Top five sneakers of all time. We know you like the Kovies, you know, but it's the top five sneakers all time. Top five. You gotta go with the Jordan once. Okay, um, I gotta go with the m Jordan. Was Jordan's five Jordan threes. You gotta put some You gotta put some chucks in there. Don't play with yourself. Definitely put some chucks. Um, and you gotta go with pennies. You gotta put the phone pop West Coast. You already know. That ship made me laugh though, because I remember when I first went out to Philly my second year. I got traded with c Web, But I was out in Philly in in February with chucks on on, like walking on that street that's like walking with socks on. Like it was codas the motherfucker out there. Man. What I didn't had no code and nothing. That ship hit home earlier when you said bro I went. I had to deal with the cold like I had never I was what twenty two maybe never been in up like probably been in snow twice. I was living in Philly. Bro. If I didn't get to just blow dope the whole time, I might have died out there anyway. Uh. Five dinner guests, dead or alive? Five dinner guests. Um ho mm hmmm. Denzel, you said, Dinzel, Denzel Washington. Hope, Denzel Washington. Uh, Mohammed Ali nice uh um Hope Denzel Mohammed Ali. Oh yeah, mm hmm cold um yeah. Mike Tyson, Oh, Mike Tyson. I like that one. I like that last question, Bro, Okay, this okay. Now, when we ask you this question, your answer you have to have to you have to help us with this answer. Okay, So think of your answer. You gotta think of your answer. Who do you want? Who do you want us to have on the show. I'm gonna interrupt on this one. Let me interrupt on this one. Since you said someone earlier that you're very close and personal friends. What you call and ask him for anything? We need Drake on our show, Bro, and we're gonna put un We're happy that with color because man man I was thinking the same thing. He was thinking. Way to go, Bro, came Bro, It's all on you. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I definitely should. He appreciate you. Tell a boy, tell a boy and tell me stack five. Say come on, man, we need you on the show. Man. That should be an easy call. Yeah, it's starting here. We're gonna manifest that he's gonna be on the show. Appreciate tomorrow. We appreciate your time. Man. Good luck um in this off season. Like I said, I got my fingers crossed and when this comes out, you'll be uh in l a. But anyway, man, beast to you and the family. Good luck the rest of the way. Man. We appreciate your time. No, man, appreciate you a man. That's a wrap. Another episode with the Margin rose and you can find us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube, and the I Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next week. This is all a smoke, a production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime