David Fizdale, J. B. Bickerstaff, Ray Paultre | Ep 53 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode

Published Oct 30, 2020, 4:01 PM

All The Smoke is back with a special episode 53 where Matt and Stephen are joined by former Knicks coach David Fizdale, new Cleveland Cavalier coach J.B. Bickerstaff, and Ray Paultre. The guys discuss the 2019-2020 NBA season, the Disney bubble, and the Laker's winning the championship. Plus, they talk about the 2020 election, the importance of voting, social activism in today's society, and black coaches in the NBA.

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Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime. Welcome back to another special edition of All the Smoke. State of the Vote. We have special guests today. Coach David Fizdale, Thank you for being here. JB. Bickerstaffies, good to be here. And then we got a man Ray over here who's a political strategist who is going to kind of keep us on tone and tune and focus when we touch in on the political realm, in the voting realm. They're great coaches to the world, but there are homies there. You go for a long time, A yeah, we go back. I've been doing far for long est time. And then the fears and all my people, uh, Gilanny and all damn. So yeah, we got some some long runs. But anyway, how's COVID been eating you guys? I know you got kids, I know you got you got one on the way that was the house COVID coress on that too. Yeah, it's been good. It's been I mean, you shouldn't say good, but interesting. You know, a lot of changes in life. But we're talking before low key blessing. This is the most time I spent with my kids since they've been born, so you know, a lot of soccer tournaments, packing up the truck, you know what I mean. Right, It's just you know, we've been able to find a blessing in it through the hard times. Obviously, you know, we've been through some difficult times, uh, with friends and family passing, you know, through all that, um, but trying to find the bright side of all this the best way we can to help the kids get through it too. Yeah, it's been great for us because obviously with the baby on the way, you know, we can fortify the house and get everything situated. And uh, you know, it's been great just for us in general, spending time together because as a coach, you're gone, it's just and even when you're home, you're halfway gone. So to lead us present at this time with my wife and my son on the way, you know, it's been great. But the other part about it, and again, like you said, you don't want to put you know, listick on the pig, but at the end of the day, with what's going on in our country, to be able to focus in on it and put the amount of energy that I can put into it, Uh, that part's mental blessing for me, because you know, when word and the thralls of it, it's just hard to really participate. Right now, we got the opportunity in the time to to really focus our energy on making a real change in this stuff. And I would say to it, if it wasn't for the pandemic, who knows where if this message would ever been really perceived as it finally was now. Obviously Jack has been on the front line with it um from the beginning. Like I said, I think it this pandemic forced us to all to sit down and really look in the mirror and look to see what was going on. And and and I feel like the what we've known for over four hund years, it's funny, we're just had for enough people to at least have an understanding if there's a really there's some real issues going on here. Ray with election day around the corner, voting rights, voting issues, voter suppression is still something very big that's playing this country. What are some things that people can do to I guess maneuver those kind of things that are against him. Yeah, I mean, I think especially with COVID, one of the things that I mean since the civil rights movement, we've been we've been able to get out in the streets, and I think that's been difficult clearly from Jump Street, I mean Staxman out clearly given given amplification to what's going on, making sure that he's in the streets, making sure that he's working with organizations on the ground. And I think that's really the key, right, Like voter suppression is a multimillion dollar campaign in order to get you to stop your vote, and I actually think it's having an adverse effect on black men because even black men who are not necessarily thrilled about their choices, the cycle was like, you're not gonna stop me from voting. And I think that's the motivating factor specifically for black men in the cycle. And so if you are, um, maybe not I love what your choices are, I think what you can't do is just let them take your vote from you. And one of the things that we're seeing is like and it's it's it's sort of painful to watch specific if somebody who's worked in politics and and started off in the field working local organizations to see black men starting to repair it some talking points and kind of giving their giving their voice away. But I will say I understand it right, Like the system is not working, it has not worked, and now you're asking the people who it has not worked for to participating. And so that's what's tough about messaging in this moment. But to directly answer your question, I mean, I think I think you know you got another week to go in the elections. I think it's about showing up and telling people who care. It's not it's not about candidates. It's about what we do post November. And I think that has to be the message. Um. Candidates is just a vehicle to get you where you want to go. I think that's what we need to start. Keep talking to you, kind of talking to me because, like you know, because like it's it's just hard for me, especially you know, seeing my brother passed and then you know, being in the streets and saying how many people need I've never seen a vote immediately affects someone's doorstep, their immediate life. So that's why I'm that with it, you know what I mean, Because I see my people need and nothing has changed all this time with the vote. So I'm at the point now where I'm not gonna be the same person doing the same thing. That's why I'm spending my own money in my own time to get out there helping out people ourselves. So I think you are right, But at some point we gotta get to point we're taking care of ourselves for anybody else to take us serious. And that's just why I mean, because it's hard for me to see that I'm asking for something when I know what's never came before. You know what I mean, I agree with that, which is why we talk about elections like they happened every four years. The hard work is holding accountable the people that you got into office, Like you don't have to love them, their vehicles to get you where you want to go. And so if you want to pro black agenda, if you want to make sure that we're study and then pass out, not even pass out, that we give black Americans um reparations for the money that was stolen from our ancestors bodies, like that's on the table. And so I I hear you. I think we need to start talking about elections UM as just step one. And I think it's been sold to us like finish, It's not gonna happen. They're gonna they're gonna go home. Why the starting point can be a black man and white. Every race has an imprint on how the system is ran, but everybody. That's that's when we're gonna have complete change. Freedom is not giving you two people to choose from and saying you free. No freedom is meet picking who I want to be president. So until every race has a fingerprint on how this country is ran, we're gonna be in this situation. And that's what we need to start. We need to start there at the at the immediate answer, changing this system, getting the whole new constitution, that's where we need to start. Jack on that too. It's like if we don't participate, though, we'll never get there. Understand that's the That's the thing that you know we keep trying to push forward is like everybody shows up every four years and they think that's all that matters. But you missed the representativetives, you missed the midterms, and those are the people who can help. You know, people talk about, you know, what Obama did or didn't do, but he was a Senate who basically said, our job is to not get you reelected, so we're not going to help you pass anything. That's gonna help the entire country. Right, we miss out on voting for state representatives because we don't pay attention to that. We see whatever's happening nationwide, we focus there. But the people that focus and help you in your state, like there's somebody's running who cares about the exact messages that you're pushing, we don't show up and voting us. And I think that's where we have to do a better job of pushing that message that we gotta you know, we gotta battle locally just as much as we do nationally. That's are big that that's my big push too, because if you got to think about it, a lot never meant to even have a voice or footing in this space. So if you if we're taking on this process, you know, I have aspirations to be in politics one day. But it's a lot to swallow. I mean, people do this ship seven three six and still don't get the ship right. So they're looking at former athletes and coaches and other people to like magically change some It's gonna take all of us first and foremost. But I think it's you take stuff and bite sized pieces, you know what I mean. The local and state. Obviously, that's where you can see some immediate return. You know what I mean, you you it's small as potholes are more funding for my school or stuff for housing or Prop sixteen in California with you know, equal footing for women and people of color. There's things that you can directly vote on your local and state level that you can see a media return. But I think when we say vote, people are thinking, okay, just the president. And then when we tell people to vote, when you get there, there's so many motherfucking choices. It's like it's almost like you really have to do your homework when you go. Because telling people to vote is great, they get there and they're overwhelmed, and I think too. But what you said, was it really important? Is that it's not just the vote. Can we get representation that reflects us in the seats that make them desist because I'm you know, Jack, I'm one, and that we need a system overhaul the eyes of us pulling that off. But it can we take this basically the framework of the system they've put in front of us to not succeed, and turn it back on by getting people were involved and in the seats that make the decisions about our community, about our lives, and the more we can do that by doing that, I think what we get is we get a lot of other people going with us. I think sometimes when we talk about system and you saw what defunded police scared the hell out of people. It didn't mean that, it didn't mean anything. But if we didn't put a clear cut you have doing it with the system, They're said, they're trying to turn that into a talking point that we're trying to take over this. We don't want cops. We want to do with this. We want equity. So yeah, and we won't take what you put in front of us and turn it into something. But the same way, like we were talking outside, is that here we are as five black men, and you think about the roadblocks that's been put in front of our people through slavery, Jim craw the world, drugs, and look at us right now where we are. Could you imagine look at what we've done with it. I mean, we're talking about George Floyd's name is being said all over the world right now. What would we do if we actually have somewhat close to a level playing field with our community and what we're what we were shown, what we're capable of. If we get equity, forget about it. And that's the fear, that's the fear. We're giving that power away, you know what I mean? Who want who really at the end of the day, keep real, who wants to give that, especially that kind of power away. They've they've been they've they've flipped it. See, they we've turned into the monster. Somehow we didn't slave ourselves. We weren't lynching ourselves. We weren't whipping ourselves, meeting people in the street, watching cameras as people die. We're not doing that, triselves. But somehow they've turned us into the monster. So if we give them this, if you give up system in our power, what will they do in retaliation? Right? We just want to have the same playing ground. It ain't about payback this if you go back to Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela's whole deal was everybody the one the young ladies said when she went on her ranch. She said, if we was asking for revenge instead of equity or equality, hold a different ball game. And so you know that's where we're at right now. And I think that to agree with everybody you gotta cash your ballot. You can't be on the sideline this time, because if you can't see what's happening right now, there's resurgence, just blatant, out in the open, white supremacy, like they didn't even hide it out, like this is our country, this is how it's gonna go. We're gonna break every rule to make sure it's still longer. You can't see that, then I feel sorry for you, and we can't tell you nothing that's gonna help you. And ask your question, though, so what do you say to the people that say, well, if we have proof that buying in comalage the more racist, more racist ship than black too, black men, than Trump, what do you say they do? People? They have done things that have devastated our community. But I want the kind of person that's willing to own it and at least say, hey, we know we're screwed up back then, and we're willing to fix it. You know, what people's intentions can be in a certain scumstances and what the result can be often can be two different things. At that time, you had nonpartisan agreement on this crime bill that we needed to do something in our streets now as black people being hit by black people because of the crack epidemic. You know, we're in the middle of it. How do you feel about it? Do we want less violence? Do we want our brother really to go to drill jail when he's selling crime just to make ends meet? Like we're caught in that conundrum of the crime bill. But all I want from leadership and people that have made these decisions on our lives before is can you just take a step back and on it, yeah, and say we screwed up. That's the beginning of trust. That's the beginning of moving forward. To understand why before you just incriminate us and put us on this side, understand why it's like it. Yes, you put us in a situation where we're fighting over what's left right, right, and so this is what happened for crumbs. And now you throw a Latin that's meeting in there, and tennis women and now it's just everybody's fighting for these crimes. And you say, well, look at them, they're animals, they're killing each other. Well, this is what you've given us to work with. That's right there in itself. We have to really attack that whole narrative. We got to put that on his head and spend it and show people that if we can get to that place where we get a seat at the table, good things is gonna happen for us moving forward. It's not gonna be consistent because we already had a black president, right, don't mean it's guaranteed and it's not gonna happen over. People have gonna staying. This ship was built over four hundred plus years of bullshit, you know what I mean? So the change, the change we fight for now, everything we're doing in our kids are going to reap these benefits. Their kids are going to reap these busfits. So right now we're sacrificing just like the people that came before us, but we actually have some real footing and more technology to be able to have our voices heard and seen around the world now. So that so the energy is definitely different. Educating me on some stuff today though, that's what we're here. Brother, you know I'm looking for you, I know, I know, I know. We need to look up my people, look up the word delegates because they have a lot to do. Who who presidents? Well and go yeah and go there you go this is. And that's why I like this is because this isn't about me knowing everything of him knowing little. We're figuring it out with the people. We're trying to get to it, and we end the fight with them. You know, we ain't above them just because we've gotten some good things. We in the fight trying to figure we're learning like everyone else. And when we say, you know, with the situation in the bubble or first we were told to shut up and dribble, and then all of a sudden we're looking, we're looked to too, what's basketball doing? What's basketball gonna do? What you just told us to shut the funk up and dribbles? But now you want us to to to make some kind of movement or do something that's gonna abolish racism or make cops stop killing us because the color of our skin like it's gonna take. We're more than willing to take on that with you guys, But it's gonna take all of us. It's not just going to be basketball, football, and professional sports. It's gonna take everybody to change it because to begin with, none of us created this ship. It's gonna take white men and white women the people that build it, who actually got a con sense and know that that's screwed up to jump on board and help and that Howard grab that is that we're watching take place, and just how they're hold known to it and they'll do anything. Look at the suppression acts, I mean, I mean, I haven't ever seen anything like that. I mean closing stations hours and hours to vote they're doing. Their purging is to use it or lose its state. Right, they can decide it's a Republican run state now, and they can decide you know how they purge votes. If you don't vote too and back to back elections, they can purge your vote. Right. They're taking polling stations of the black community is impacted by the amount of polling stations that they have being limited. There's one box per county now, so there's counties with eight hundred thousand people, right, but there's only one drop box. And you can think about being in Texas there's four million people. I mean, it's it's crazy. You had the governor there were fourteen drop boxes in Houston and two weeks before election, he said they can only be one drop box in Houston. It's insane. It's millions that don't make sense sense and it's it's it's it's some things outside of that that people can do that are that they're gonna be able to see this show to combat that right there. So i've him on the show with athletes. I think from from athletes, I think it's recognizing your power, especially in the state that you're from, and one of the things I want to encourage. It's been such a pleasure to work with Coach Bickerstaff and Coach Fitzdale because they're owning their piece of the pot, right, and so one of the things we get obsessed with sometimes is the sort of national approach to politics. But what coach is doing in Ohio only he can do bit by bit by bit stack when he was traveling, Like that's how you have to do it, and you have to partner with a local organization or political operatives and make that point too, because like I said, I hate when I hear there's three million going from the owners and in Jordan has donut but to me, like I hate because first of all, there's never transparency where the money is going, and they just want to throw the big names and the big names that they aren't doing what needs to be done. I think they need to be able to align with the local liaison or someone that has the heart beat of that city, because what he needs in Texas is different from what I need is Sacramento, from what different from what he needs in Ohio. But you can't blanketly say Okay, we're giving it to this big organization because their nationwide. That doesn't mean and they've never been in that community. They don't know nobody in that community, or anohing and and and this is gonna I don't want this to sound or come off wrong, But the easiest thing to do is throw money at something. When you have a whole lot of money, the easiest thing to do is throw money, don't care what happens. But the hardest thing to do is actually get on the rood time and walk the walk right and fight the fight like that's difficult, that's time consuming. That shows you care. Well. One thing Jack did, I mean the one thing that I thought was interesting when Jack talked about making his move around, it was every color of the rainbow out there too. So this is everyone together, That's what I'm saying. That's what it's gonna take. And the cool part of what we're doing with the Coaches Association. I know you so I saw the stuff we came out with when we spoke up. Our whole thing right now is getting involved with grassroots programs and the start of it goes back to what we talked about. First. We were on a truth and reconciliation tour. Can you reconcile with what has happened in your city and state when it comes to civil rights? African American, Hispanics, whoever? Can we just get out on the table that this you did, this, this happened. You know, we're bringing families to the games that had people killed by the police to recognize and put their name out there that we have to say this isn't right. And once we can get to that place where we make that reconciliation now all the coaches, what we did is we started pushing it to vote and we're just diving into the truth centerm tell people the truth what's going on. Don't let the missipim because they're telling the people to go vote in the wrong place. They're telling people balot certainly, but you saw the California here they put out those ballot boxes. I mean it's like, so that's all we're focused on right now is truth and reconciliation, and we feel like that's the way we can utilize our platform one best to impact was and they count on the fact that you know, these tricks and this suppression is just gonna discourage up enough people just to say fuck it. That's and that's what they he said it earlier. I think, like, to me, it's motivated. The one thing did encourage me more than anything I can ever recall was the first time my brother was Obama uh first election. But even when that happened, although we had a lot of energy, I've never seen so many public figures with platforms talk about the way it's been talked about. You know, since Kobe passed, it's been a downward spiral of just negative events happened after negative events, and that you know, the culmination of you know, it was when Jack's brother got killed. So I've never, like I said that, the one thing that gives me encouragement, the one thing that gives me chills when I think about it's just like there's so many people out here using the bigger, small platforms, using their voice because the size of what's what's the point having a big gas platform if you don't use it the right way. So to me, it doesn't matter the size of your platform as long as you're you know, you're you're educated on what you're talking about. Talk because you know you can change it. If you changed one person's mind, that could be what needed. Look at who we've lost, you know, like when you lose somebody that's been taking care of the family and your family a long time and it's your turn, you gotta step up. That's what we had. We lost this, we lost Mr Lewis, CT Vivian, we lost Ruth, We've lost I mean, titans of civil rights. And I just felt like a natural, like we up to bat type of deal is being called to us, and you're seeing that globally, really and really naturally from us, is that it's time for us to step up? Man? Is that what this man did and what he went through. I couldn't imagine somebody treating Jack how they treated John Lout would have been long time, you know, that repot something on in your head at that lunch counter, and that was it. That would have been it. And then so for what he took and what he bared and what he went through to get us to this place where we have to exercise our rights. But he died this year, and I think that was a siren telling us that you can't be on the side. It's a relay race, right, They're they're passing on, but you're exactly right there there there, it's yours now. And I think that's why, like the civil rights movement from the sixties and seventies, if you think about the role that athletes and entertainers played back then, it's not a coincidence that's the sixties was also the greatest systematic, systemic change for black Americans. And I think what what what sort of coined the civil rights movement? I think was a right to just like don't lynch me, right. I think what we're at now is like all right, cool, like these laws have been passed. Now I want to see what a real seat at the table is and what America is going through right now. Doesn't not want to acknowledge what it's done. And a lot of white folks are having a tough time acknowledging because in your lives, when you acknowledge something, then you were asked to do something about it. And I think this moment, specifically for black athletes, um men and women, is about equal rights right. And you know, stack you talked about systemic change. I think it is voting as an national holiday. I think it is making sure that these voter suppression laws get turned down. I think it is passing the civil rights legislation that John Lewis was behind, fixing automatic voter registration in States, early day early voting registration in states. When you fix the machine, the amount of power that black people have, I mean, black women choose the President United States every time, every time, whether they decided to vote. That's the power of the black community. And I do like though. What I will say is I do like that black people are making elected officials work this year and the way that we haven't no doubt, I think all this kind of ties hand in hand because, as I spoke to earlier, the NBA credit in an amazing situation where you know, he was able to bring players in there safely, with no positive tests. We saw some great basketball, we crowned a champion. But at the same time, the message continued to grow. And at the beginning, this is where Jack and I kind of saw different like Jack was on the front lines in these cities. I'm up in Sacramento help past, you know, getting props together and and and bills together to be passed. And I thought that, Okay, like I said, he's on the front line. This is what the people need, this is what they want, this is what they see. But then I'm thinking, like I've been to a couple of things, but that's more his thing. I'm doing my thing. But I'm thinking globally, the message is gonna get relayed much faster, much stronger when that NBA logo is behind it. You know, we're always gonna hear Lebron, We're gonna hear CP. But do we hear Doc rivers Plea? Do we hear Fred van Pleet? Do we hear George Hill? You know? Do we hear some of these voices that aren't as big but just as powerful? You know, broad you know that. I mean, the list goes on. I mean I get so excited when I said, when I see this many people actually using their platform. What were your guys thoughts on first the safety, I mean it's kind of a three tier safety, the quality of basketball, and then how they will continue to push their narrative and their message in the middle of the interviews before games, during games, and after games. I mean, I gotta give credit to the league. And I do believe that the NBA is the best best professional sports league in the United States. And it's not even close, right, perfect, no, but there's not even a closer, right, So I gotta give credit to the league for doing what they did. And they did prioritize making sure people were safe, you know what I mean, Like some of those steps may have seemed drastic in the beginning, but their priority was to make sure that everybody was safe and that they were able to get a full season and to be able to go through and get not get one positive. They accomplished and that's a hell of an accomplishment. And you think about, you know, all the people, and again give credit to the people who went right, the players, the staff, the ref because they weren't doing crazy stuff, you know what I mean, Like, we know those urges are there, you know, to step off the campus and go do what whatever. Credit to them for staying on course, right, because that's a that's a big deal. Um, you know, they carried the burden for all of us, you know, what I mean, Like the teams that didn't get invited down there, you know what I mean, the teams that had to go home. Really they carried the burden for the entire NBA to get it done financially and again to keep that message going, you know what I mean, Like if somebody would have made a mistake, they would have used that as ammunition to go at that seat. They can't do that, you know what I mean, Like, they can't focus on this. And they did a great job of making sure their messages were on point and they carried themselves in a way where people had to respect them. And there's a group of people who are just ignorant. They don't care no matter what players say or what they do, Like they don't care because they can't get past the fact that, you know, they don't want these athletes to have a voice. They don't want them to have an opinion, they don't want them to carry weight. They don't want exactly so put them there. But I think what it did was it opened a lot of eyes about the power that the NBA players that they have. That they carried that one thing. I'll say, whether you agreed with how it went down, or not when Minnesota or Milwaukee decided not to play, and it was a domino effect how some people said, you should have kept that power, You should have did this, you should that That one thing has shown me is they have power. Because it was the NBA, it was the NFL, it was the MLS, it was the w n b A, it was the NFL. Stop you know what I mean, Like you saw the effect and the like. That was the one thing I took away that we can debate back and forth and I don't want to get into it should they have stopped in really gone after something? But to me, all this just show was our power. Yeah, and can just and this is the thing that that kind of that excites me about. It is to me, there's been a void of leadership in our communities for a long time. Right, we threw so much weight into politicians, and politicians have led us down time and time again. That void was filled by powerful voices, right, and everybody jumped on, like you saw tennis, soccer, NFL people jumped on. I think we gotta make sure we keep it pushing and keep pushing until we vote. It's it's it's an ongoing process. So like when we're gonna utes after you vote, you still black man, turn the Sammy. You ain't going turn in the Samy once you vote my people and they still go back. They're not gonna let up on trying to take away your right to vote. It's just not gonna stop. Even if we win this. They're gonna keep fighting because the numbers are gonna continue to be in our favorite right, the demographics of our country. Our country is getting brown and I don't care how you look at it. And so that's gonna keep happening. But that small contingency that he's talking about, it's gonna keep fighting to keep trying to even up the numbers no matter what. So we can't and they count on you after the election ex sale, But you know, to go along with what he said about the bubble, I thought what I really would marveled at was the discipline of everyone to stay on message. Watch the interviews, watch the half time, and watch watch the post game interviews. It was a guy that really went up there, that didn't say something, He's okay, the game, did this the game. We're here to Brianna Taylor, And it was like, that's what I was so out about was just the consistency of being able to stay on message and knowing a lot of those guys that was in the bubble still doing stuff in their hometown of their communities to impact as well. To me, that's what was so amazing. And then the final part of it was just the quality of the game. The competition was fantastic. You can tell that this wasn't no asterisk trophy. You you could tell that them dudes wanted that trophy, right, It was no, this is all what we're in the bubble type thing. Not everybody that was in that bubble was going after that trophy and self motivated. Right, People push you like you got the home crowd, they're cheering you around. Now. You had to find my question to you because we we think about it as players. You guys played in your career, but we're in the league's coaches. Was there a benefit to either side to not having crowds because I'm thinking about these young Miami Heat players, like not having to come to l A and go to war. Everybody can be shot in the first in the fourth, Yeah, Abs, you saw you saw a lot of guys that you wouldn't normally see performed it's more just pick up because they don't have that pressure the crowd on them player, because that that crowd puts that that extra weight of what this game stands, what it means. It means that crowd is putting that extra being that with thirty thou and man and shutting them. So it's both sides of it. And some guys rise in those moments, some guys don't. But you didn't have any of that. It was cool. But you also guys that got tight because of the moment as well, Like it was guys as it started to squeeze Denver, how do you come back three one twice? They stepped up all of a sudden that momentum times and you saw teams getting every shot was like they had to make it, and all of a sudden, this young team Miamie clear mind, they kept winning and just put pressure on those things like Milwaukee puts so much pressure on them as they start to look up, like why are they in the series with us? Before they knew it, they're gone. And so I think that you know, it opened up the window for teams that you know, we're more like a Miami or Denver who had guys that necessarily haven't been in the dungeons and the arenas where you're getting called every name in the book. Those guys, I felt played a little more free, and your chemistry with your team showed more too, because if you want to fight for the guy next to you, like that's all you got, you know what I mean. The teams that we're doing this, those are the teams that went home. That was the one thing to talking to some of the guys in above said, they said the best some of the best times where the evenings when everyone like sometimes you're kicking it and talking to dudes you would never really run across. They've just always been an opponent, but now you're getting I wasn't in the league. I wouldn't have felt that games. But you know what else too, I think I think you saw what the importance that toughness is a real skill that young but that team was like at the time, you know, the whole dealing. So I think you saw what that element can bring to us. That because I kept saying, it's like the Thunderdome, right, you're just throwing people in this bubble and say, Okay, who's gonna survive. Miami's team their whole culture was built for that kind of seals throw them over in the jungle. They figured out a way they getting me. So that's what Miami was and I think that's why they in that environment when you had, you know, a Toronto team that was vulnerable. Now that wasn't the same from the year before, Boston team that was reeling from an injury with Hayter coming in and out of the lineup, Milwaukee who whoever weeks but they didn't address their wars but walk He never addressed their wars. In fact, they led a guy like brobed and Walked who was a critical things like that, and you saw when honest wasn't going. When you're asking guys that are still talented, but they're not asked to carry the burden like guys play their role. So it's tough when your name is number one and number two on the scoutter reported, not number eight. When Kobe was doing his thing, when you as well him, it was made it easy for everybody, but he wasn't on that court. Everybody else had to go to the next spot. Was like Motherucker's talking about they want to but can you really hand them really? If you was on the team with you know, I gotta be the jerk. Would you put him to the side, broke? Can you work on your jump shot? I would just you know, I think he does. I think that's like he's gotten better some guys that don't. But it's playoff level better and you know the difference. Yeah, right, And I think that's the thing is like he's working at it, but it's a working process. When I watched, that's how I know the teams. I know how teams played teams in the regular season in the playoffs, and if you can't shoot, we're gonna give you that the whole playoffs. But you have to still take it and miss it. You have to take in Simmons, you still have to shoot it and understand what it feels like they're making miss not just an emptys gym. You have to have that feeling what I meant to see it missing. But we've all seen great like you know, great shooters and practice like motherfucker's and you give him the ball in the game, they do like little kids, and that guy sucks because you're like in the game, like, oh, he's wide open to the game. Drop some beautiful drop some beautiful ship he's wide open. And you know it's like everybody, everybody that's a whole. Different guys are different, and so that's what I think with Jane. Honestly, even with all of those deficiencies of shooting, if they would address that issue of having a guy that can come off a pick and roll, shoot at three and make a play for him. See that's where he's a powerful everything stop for everybody. Gota Remember he's a power forward. Carl Malone has stocked Timmy had Tony Parker. Come on, man, you can go down the line of point guards that's played with great power forwards. They need easy baskets. He always got the ball in his hands that has to make the play. Everybody need a guy to get him some cheap stuff. But only a great mind coach I know to think like that, though only you know that. Kevin mcke Kevin mckill. Never forget Kevin McKell quote. And he wasn't even talking about basketball, but he always said, every big man needs a point guard everything, you know what I mean, like even on the court, off the court, you need a point Mike con Manga sall were in a separate perfect match. They had to be together like that, the combination, and they needed each other that way, and bigs like that need good guard play because they gotta get six to ten easy ones. And then all of a sudden, now that gain, now Janice may start making more jumpers because it's like, I ain't got some to make this. You got to get one or two of those guys or they're gonna keep running into the same problems. And if they don't, I fear he may decide I gotta touch you know, Yeah, that's a real possibility. Don't go to the Bay, Oh, Miami Bank, Toronto. It's a lot of Toronto. It's a lot of times that you want to go Miami. The band. Imagine if we weren't in the pandemic and when you had to go to South Beach and l how great is I want to went to that ship. I don't even like pissed off because he was like this first time this happened. Crazy. Miami and I like the two most populus cities. You got a chance to win a couple of rings with Braun in Miami to see what he's been able to kind of do. Went from you know, I think he learned and you can speak to this I think he learned a lot from you guys in Miami, particularly the weight on how to handle it because the weight had already been there. Your staff and your organization is rock solid, and like Jack said, it starts at the top. I think he did He did great as a player, but I didn't think he did a lot of a training and learning when he was with you guys. You know, the biggest thing he learned in Miami is he learned to stop giving a fun man hard to do and it's hard to do when when so many people are talking about you from the nine fresh sheet Man. We all seen this movie. This dude was a nine. He was on Sports Sale Australia. He was supposed to be the best player that ever played the game, and that was on his head from Matt and he didn't. He didn't disappline, he hasn't disappointed. Now, did he have some bumps in the role. I'm like, I'm just saying squeaky clean athletes, but I'm just people people have I'm talking about in the roles, like losing this series or not hitting this shot. That stuff has come and we watched him roll through that. But if you look at the totality of what he's been able to do, he ain't done, then win it again next year with prime for seventeen years none and he takes it so serious, like, he puts in so much. That's why I can respect it, because I got to see him put in the time. He doesn't take that part for granted. He's just not a talented dude showing up and being Lebron's done physically for himself mentally like, and then when you take all of that, and he's taking the burden of leading us in social justice and criminal justice and this whole deal can carry out that. I mean, he built the school where the families live for free, if they're in this program where they got housing, who's done that. He's carrying all of that. He's doing all of this great stuff on the court that we can't even believe. And he's not done and he's doing that. So so what we're seeing is something to marvel at. And I hope that when it's all said and done, that he really gets the kind of credit I think when you see that too, though, And this is what my point before about that group of people over here, that they try to find a way anything when you remember last year. We were here last year. Because you hear the media he's coming in l A and he wants to make movies and be on shows and he's not. I'm just like this thing has been doing this stuff. You just didn't know because he wasn't in l A doing it like he need to be that he knows what his job is. Was looking at was Okay, I'm having a tough time catching these dudes with six I might be able to do it, but I'm having But what I can do is win one with three different franchises and the finals m VP. That's all I'm done. Think about that. And he took a whole different crew four times and said, come on, guys, fit the pieces together. I'll make the rest of it work. I got it, but from an athletes, I masked it this all the time. This is one I love Lebron. I put him, I set him apart from everybody. As athletes, we all bring out entourage, brown, we all come in. I want to bring out hood and every around and put them in position to be me that I put them in position to provide for themselves. He's the only one in NBA history to get the only one. That's why I get That's why I seated one of them. I'm guilty, I got it wrong. He's the only one to get that was the most The thing I loved about his cruel was, and I'm friends with all of them, is that they all became their own entity, right. They didn't just hold on to us tail and say, you know, I'm gonna stay in this crew and be around him as they that's the end. And he gave He empowered me to go be themselves. And you know I would if I'm an athlete and I got a little crew. That's the blueprint. I'm sitting there, go ahead. What what did they do so that I'm not paying these dudes bills when I'm twenty years from now and they're still, you know, asking me for money and all that stuff. What he did is he empowered their entrepreneurship. Where he started to finished though, he started on the court, right, and that's where he does his thing. And I think, you know what I mean, Like, we got people who walk this line, but they're not fully committed here. And if you're not fully committed here, cares about that other stuff? You know what I'm saying. Occurred below average as an NBA player, Like nobody's jumping on your ship to give you these opportunities do these things like he got the job done here and all the other doors were opened up because of basketball. I just wish people would would would understand and appreciate instead of always trying to compare who's this, who's that? What he didn't do? What? We've got a chance to watch Michael Jordan's, Kobe Bryant and Lebron James all in their primes, all during our lifetime. Because I was the people with exactly right. I mean, That's why I don't get into it. Yeah, I don't this whole thing people with no talent they made and the gum by itself nothing, They couldn't make a layup, and they were the ones trying to have better than this, and and it almost And what I don't like is is sports media has almost made you like if if I like COVID, then I can't like Lebron, but I still like MG. I can't like it. It's crazy. You know, we don't rate that really do that though? Yeah, you don't a race that could pat trying to make each other go at each other. I could pay each other. You can't just say, okay, it's only one mom, but one king and one Jordan. You can't just you got what Jordan betted in him with Cobe. We only raised that compare. We can't just be great. We can't just let everybody be great and everybody praise everybody and give everybody they flowers. We got to compare them in some kind of way. I always look out like us, if your name is in the conversation, that's over and don't and then and if you're not in that circle, like I like what Jordan said. Did you hear what Jordan was talking about it not too long ago, about how you can't compare Karine to me to lebron to He's like, it's not fair generationally to do that. He's like, you got to appreciate what these guys are doing. And if Jordan's said that, everybody else needs to shut the funk up, he's the one that really has got the most votes for the crime, right. And if he said here, I'm gonna set the crown over here for me, just so y'all understand it's not about that, then everybody else shut the fun up, right exactly, Let's transition to um obviously, you guys, current head coach, former head coach. Black coaches in the NBA are few and far between. DC Rivers was let go, but then immediately picked up. Ty Lewis picked up by the clips name. McMillan was fired, Alvin Jenni was fired. We're as it stand, maybe four six curves now with TLU and then Dot getting back on. It's at six six out of thirty still open. New Orleans is still open though, and one more place, um okay in Indiana? Right, Okay? What is it gonna take for people that look like us, that entertain everyone and are great on the court to actually get more of a realistic look as coaches, as general manager, as front office, as exacts willing to work or get a chance to work their way up. It's tough man, to be honest with you, you know what I mean. Like, we got a lot of friends that are still in this fight and trying to move. We've been through it. I was what fourteen years before, you know, I got an opportunity, and the only reason I got an opportunity is three times is because the person ahead of me, uh, you know, got got let you got let go or decided to move on. You know what I mean. I went on. I can't tell you how many interviews and you get to a point where they say, oh, you know you're gray, but our owner decided this, you know what I mean. Like that happened to me four or five times where you know, the general manager would tell me one thing and then they would say, well, our owner decided we needed more of this, you know, and this ended up being an older white right instead of you know what I represent? Uh, So you get piste off, you know what I'm saying, to be honest with you, And you know what it comes down to if you think about it is, you know companies and businesses as a whole that are run by older white men, how comfortable are they and putting young black men in positions of leadership? They hire people who look like them. It's comfortable for him, right because that's who they know, that's who they've experienced, that's what they understand. You know. I mean, I feel extremely fortunate, you know what I'm saying. Like in Cleveland, Kobe Altman is a black general manager. You know, I'm a black head coach. There's five or six different positions in our organization that are led by black men or black women, you know what I mean. So like, that's an extremely unique situation in all the pro sports. We were one of the first to do a vice president of diversity and clue who was a black man named Kevin Clayton. So like, our organization has been thinking forward and has been open, but it's not common in the league. And I think it's something you know me Again, we talked to talk, right, but when the action came, the opportunity to make these hires, in these decisions, we didn't make those decisions. We didn't walk that walk. So I mean that's something that you know, we got to make sure that we keep putting the pressure on too, to keep people thinking about that. Like again, it's easy to throw money at the problem when you gotta make a decision and when it becomes difficult. And the thing too, it starts with the whole perception of young black coaches, you know, And he knows exactly what I'm about to talk about. And this is a really unfortunate part of the battle we have to fight to get where we are. Is when we came into the league as young assistants, player development, whatever our job yeah, it was to get players better. That wasn't our biggest job. My job was to keep Jack out. The club did that, and I would I never played with y'all, y'all. Still, this is real ship and the your grands right. I don't mean to cut you off, but this is real ship. He's not lying at all, y'all, y'all. Every team that I played against you all, y'all used to make y'all wait, both of y'all, make you all wait down to my end, talk to me, check on me. And we never even played on the same time. But then they used that against you because then they said you're too close to the players. But I can't tell you how many nights I got the call, Hey, JB, so and so was here again. Go get him, Go get him South Beach, go get him. So I go get him. Right, you know we got this you know, specialist coming in. We want him to work with him. You know he won't do it if we asked him. But JB, what you asked him to do it to do it because of your relationship, right, And then when it came time for promotions moving up, it was you're too close to the players. Yeah, you know, what I'm saying, they're not your friends at his wedding, right, this happened at his wedding. My wife and I are in the suite, will get you know, Gary go to another event for his wedding. We're down to Mexico, having a great time. I get a call from a good friend of all the Oars, Mike Brown. My guy. Mike Brown is our guy. I went to my same college, is Mike. He's the reason I'm even in the league. Mike Brown called me, said first I got to talk to you. I'm like, what's up. He's like, it's a certain contingency of people out there that's trying to hold up your opportunities from being the head coach. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like I ain't even thinking about it. He said, it's people saying you're too close to your players. You know you're this here and I'm like, so here it is. They've been telling me this is what I gotta do to be important. I don't even know. I keep there my line, but I can coach too, but this is my main job. But now they're using it against me to get that. You gotta think, like he talked about fourteen years, I went to four title runs. I didn't get an interview for two more years from Memphis and we had to call him. I had made I went to Pat's office. I said, Pad, I need a favor so I never come to you if I wasn't ready, And he was like, what's up. I'm like, I want the Memphis job. He's liked and luckily as Pat right got you, boom, he put the call in. But they didn't call for me. I wasn't a part of the pool, you know, because again I think people looked at me as like, well, he just keeps the way Brian Chris Bosh from going off, and he he does that supposing the coaches and not only is it not easy, but we're coaching. That's the part that gets lost in this and that's what I'm talking about is the perception of what black coaches are. I was the players coach when I got hired as a head coach, not a tactician, not a guy who understand the offense pace, you know, defensive systems, all this stuff, analytics. I'm I can give a master's course. We can both give a master's course on every technology in this league. Because I came through the video rown just like you did. I can tell you every position on assistant coaching staff. I've ran a defense of offense, player development. We've done every one of those jobs all the way through the deal. But now I get to the seat and it's my turn and on the players coach, which is the most different and conversed intelligence. Yeah, what do they say about the young white coaches that coming to this league? And he's my friends, right, like these are basketball mind right, if you could go back and and yeah, but that's the That's what I'm saying is so we have to really change that perception. And I put a lot of that burden on the head coaches in this league. They have to start showing their assistance in a different light. And they gotta started talking about their black assistance in the light of a guy that really knows how to teach the game, execute the game. You know, the whole of being ahead players, that's the most important. You need to coach, need to demand their respect and be leaders. And what happens to us though again perceptions so as we do that, we're being combative. We don't we're creating McMillan named McMillan has got an extension and then they still fired. But what they say is he's too hard. He running through this practice is too long. He's But if that was coach k or somebody else that you'll be saying, what a coach. He really holds the accountable. He's really putting that stamp down, you know. And so that's how it kind of goes where we gotta watch that wall. There's too many people that's never played the game have an input and have a say so how the game is ran. That's a big problem too. And and one reason why players are not involved in who coaches, who coaches coach their team is because they would pick coaches, like y'all, coaches that they can talk to outside of basketball, coaches that they feel they feel comfortable talking to about everything. Even with Steve Nash, he's not black, but they picked him because he's a two time m VP, he's been in Wars, he's been in the NBA. They know that they can trust him when it comes down to the game. And here's but here's where I would ask, and I would challenge all the players. You do have power, you do have voice. Right, So the Steve Nash is a clear picture to all of us of the power that players, no question, don't use it as a way out, like use your boys, you know what I mean. If it matters, if it matters to you and all these things like we keep talking about the impact and equality and equity, if it matters, use your boys because they have to listen. Because the important thing. See, you guys are retired and now you're in a world where you look at people's occupations. Deffinitely it has to happen when players are in the current. I'm glad I wasn't like that. Yeah, y'all have been playing by damn self. I wouldn't damn show what's showing up. Well, my thing too is I mean, I could be wrong, but I think it's obviously you're I don't even want to use your leash or your rope is shorter because it's just not the time. But I feel like it's dangerous because, like I said, I've known you for a long time and I talked about your situation. You got an opportunity to coach first and formance, which is a blessing, but it's two fucked up teams, you know what I mean. So you can only do so much, and then we'll ship. We'll look who we had and look what they did. Well, motherfucker, look what you gave him exactly. You look at the job you gave him and the roster you gave them, and then well he couldn't do this here, he couldn't do this there, so he must not. So it's dangerous. And like I said, I don't like to Steven Steve. It's for friends of ours play with Steve. He got a job with two superstars, Steve Kerr got a job with three All Stars to superstars, Like you don't see black coaches getting an opportunity to lead a team that is just is ready to do. You get black coaches the jobs that they got a build not too many people, But then you don't really give a chance to build, you know what I mean. It takes it takes two or three drafts, three or four seasons to really have an identity as the coach's identity. You can't get motherfucker's in and out like you can't build it for me. It's it's personal. But it's like my dad been through the ship for a long you know what I'm saying, Like my dad's first job was in nineteen seventy two and the NBA. Right he's still working with us in Cleveland. But you look at his head coaching jobs and it was the same ship, you know what I mean. He got a young team with the Wizards or they were the Bullets at the time, with c Webb and Juan and George mirision Is Strict and those guys. But all the other jobs, like all of those jobs like he had to get and he had to build it. So if you think about from his first job was with Seattle and head coaching job right from five to two thousand and twenty, we're having the same conversation, you know what I mean. So what's changing, what can change, what is being done to change is their talks amongst the organizations, amongst the Coaches Union, Like what kind of stuff is being talked about they I mean, we do have a very strong coaches Union. I'll give them a ton of credit for that. David Fogel is the head of as the executive director. Rick Carlisle is the head of it UM, and you know they are making pushes to try to help you know, minority coaches, black coaches get interviews, but at the end of the day. That's what you get as an interview, right, Like you can't tell and you shouldn't be able to You shouldn't be able to tell an owner you have to hire this guy, right, you have to take a look at it. But I mean, like you can do that. But you know, that's the difficult part about it is what Fortune five company? Can you say you have to hire a black CEO or a black executive director? Like, you can't do it, don't that right? So they're giving exposure and they're doing a bunch of different things, you know, um as far as technology on the internet. They're putting together stories on these guys, you know, videos like all types of stuff to try to give them exposures to be done. Because when you when you overqualify, you gotta you, you gotta remember again, it spills back into society and just the basics of how our society has moved. We have to be much better at everything just to get a look. Yeah, and so that's where you know, but again it's all like he said, it falls back on obviously the owners are going to make the final decision. But I do feel like Adam Silver in the league and I know the Coaches Association. We're really making strong pushes so that more guys get their foot just in the room to talk to these people. And when they can do that and just had that opportunity, you never know then what happens. You can while a guy, you know, maybe you click with a guy and you get your opportunity. But that has to be the thing that we got to get people in front of these guys so that they know there's quality candidates and not something you just heard from about somebody from the resource. But you get them in front of you and you talked to him. Don't don't don't let it be somebody have to tell you that I'm called qualified. It's it's right here that I'm I'm here. It says right here, I'm quantified. Somebody should have to tell you I'm quantified. Transitioning to your time in Memphis, Um, it was eye opening for me in a good way, you know what I mean. I when I got to Memphis, I was just like man, the people, the food, the history. UM. You were very vocal out there about having some Confederate statues removed. UM out there, and UH talked to us a little bit about what that was about. And what ended up happening. Um, you know, it's really it's interesting because when we first got there, Um, I was approached by this group take them down nine oh one, and uh, you know they're talking about these statues and me, being a West Coast guy, I didn't even get it. And I never even really to be honest, what you knew that these statues was all over the place. The only thing I remember seeing over the course of my life that really just took me back was when I worked for the Hawks and I went to Stone Mountain and I saw this, like didn't they lose? They have this? Like you know what I mean. But then when I was so when I got there, here this you're talking about being a young black coaches Like, okay, this group is asking me to be active. How active can I be? It's my first job, I'm in the South, and how far am I willing to push this? But at some point, certain things happen that you don't get to choose no more. And Charlotte'sville happening, right, Charlottesville happened but on your front doorstep, yeah, right there, And it was all about that statue. And I'm sitting here, is that you know in the city, Dr King was assassinated, and here it is a majority black staff. Right. We put a lot of time into the black community and the Civil Rights Museum and stuff like that, and here I am and charlotte Ville happens, and I'm like, man, we got these crazy. We got a statue for people that don't know. Nathan Bedford Forest, the first the grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, had a statue aside, two story statue in the biggest park in the city. And Jefferson Davis across town had a statue to say inside sitting in one of our best parts right on the Mississippi River. Now here, I am a black coach and this has happened in my city. And I got a group of black women asking me to get involved in this and put my voice to it. And Charlottesville is going on, and I'm like, I can't stay on the sideline for this one. So I didn't ask permission. I dove in. I did a huge YouTube interview. My wife posted some stuff on her on her Instagram because I'm not on Instagram, but we did. We went to pictures of the statues with me in front of them, you know, Black Lives Matter T shirts all that kind of stuff, just to bring again platform attention to it, because that's what they didn't have. A lot of people didn't understand, didn't even know about what these women have been trying to do all this time. So I got involved in that, and and sure enough, when I did it, I got called to the principal's office and it was sponsors of the team that were threatening to pull out if I didn't shut up. We had a couple of minority owners that spoke up, you know, mad that I was doing this and now, and it's like, you know, that me to tone it down, and I just said, I can't. I can't do that in the position that I'm in right now, with what's going on in our country and these two statues sitting in our city, I can't back off of this. And so I just stayed with it. You know, we got a lot of stuff, you know, threats and things like that obviously sent our way. You're talking about the middle of the South, right. Although Memphis is an awesome city and people live in that city, about that city, what is surrounded by is the history of our South. And I got a backlash from that that was pretty you know, pretty uh threatening, but at the same time, I wasn't gonna back off and we laugh about it. But I got fired and a week later I got a call from one of the ladies and the group saying, you know, Coach, we just want you to know your time in Memphis wasn't in vain. Statues are coming down and they sent me the video and you you know, winning titles and all of that stuff. It's awesome, guys, but that's real, and that's something that I will be able to show my son. You know that my wife and I was a part of this, and we we were actively engaged in trying to do something to help people. And so you know that probably means more to me to damn than anything I tell people. I tell people that all the time. With what I'm doing now, I feel like I'm more known for what I'm doing now in basketball that mean more than me and everything because I'm helping my people. Yeah, because I don't want to be known for basketball. I want to be known for It's a natural I always talked about, you know that I'm all corny and stuff. I'll get into the science of things, but when you give a chemical comes off of you. Something happens inside of you when you that nothing else can create. And it's scientifically proven. And so the more you get, why do you think you always just feel so good different? It's not just because of the action. It is because it was actually happening inside of you. And so that's why you just now you're fueled like they didn't messed up and let lit your engine and you can't stop. And I think that's the way it is for all of us. Really, you've messed around and woke us all up. And this ain't the sixties. Muhammadadli didn't have social media. Bill Russell didn't have Instagram. You know he was at tweeting. They didn't have access, They didn't have wealth and resources and things that they can connect to that we have. And now that we are all WoT, we have to maximize that to push this thing forward so that our kids shouldn't be having this platform, can go back to sleep, show time. Um in closing ray elections around the corner for sure, talk talk to our people, what do we need to do and give me a quick cush note to what needs to have to me. First, I want to thank coach for what he did, and and hold that up as an example with stack as an example. What, um, what coaches doing in the highest example, work with the local organizations. You don't have to love the candid, but you don't understand the power that your platform can give a low organization who's been grinding on the page every single day, door knocking, and then you lend your voice for thirty minutes, for five minutes of them and changes the entire That was one thing Jack said to just being out there with that. He said, the looks on their face and this black is that will never see that statute because of what coach did. They don't got to walk by an enslaver every single time that they will and that's that's so powerful. And so anyway, the point being, I think is using your platform to educate voters right now. Um. One of the things that you know, we talked about when we talk about with especially our athletes and artists is yes, the two and a half minute overperformed video that's nice in music and straight to camera. This is what you need to know and figure out how to get it out there. The local organizations right now that if you give them thirty seconds of your time and say hey, this is where you go to vote, this is who you know, this is this is what the ballot looks like. And create that content, share it on your social media platform. Organizations will grab it off the off the platform and send it out everywhere. What are the seven states? You feel? Um, we can utilize athletes and entertainers voices the most. Yeah, so seven states? Pay attention? Alright, seven states? What number one is? I'm from Florida, so I let's say something about Florida. Florida, Texas might flip. Texas actually might flip. Then it's not called the swing state. Yea, but Texas might flip. But Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin are the most important things in this selection in North Carolina. If you're in any of those states, athletes, musicians, entertainers, tap in. We can get you some information on how you can be most effective. Um, we're in the fourth courter now, baby, and again I think that for all of us is use your platform to get out the right information. We're fighting. You may not see it all the time, but what's happening out there. They are doing anything to give people false information so that they go to the wrong place or they don't vote at all. And people trust us and people know that if we're putting it on our sites, then it's real. And so all of you guys in these differences where you're a college athlete, pro athlete, it does not matter. Use your platform. You get problem information to your community, so we can get that number of people out to vote, and to all the athletes too. There's so many people in our neighborhoods. They screaming to the top of our lines, but they don't nobody hear them. We have to be their voice. There's so many people that need our voice to speak up for him. Being in these neighborhoods, I inherited, so many people paying, so many mothers have lost their kids to police violence, so many people that are struggling that need to be heard. We have to be their voice, and they're looking for someone to follow right. So, and it may not be for everybody, you know what I mean, because it is scary when you put yourself out there. It is scary. It's not for everybody, But if you take that step, you'd be amazed at how many people will step with you. I think that's what we need to do. If you had a billboard to show the world with the message that what would it be, vote right like Pops in those T shirts that said vote like your life depends on it because it does right and that's real. Well, that's a wrap. I'd like to thank our guest. Today. Election day is right around the corner. Early vote, Early vote, Take your ballots to the polls, dropping yourself if you need to stay in the line, stand in line because it's bigger than us. It's for our futures, for our children's, for the children. Every vote counts, every voice counts. Make sure you vote this year, the biggest election of our lives. Catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the I Heart Black Effects Family. We'll see you guys next time. Production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime

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All The Smoke

ALL THE SMOKE pairs two of the most outspoken and controversial players of their time. Known as fier 
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