I hope you guys enjoyed the first few months of All the Smoke. We begin tremendous love and support responses. Me and Jack couldn't be happier. Man, We appreciate you, guys. Man. Before the new Year, we got a chance to chop it up with Carrie Champion, the Queen of Smoke, the first Lady of SMO. And since then she's announce she's leaving ESPN, which was kind of shook everybody. She look at me, but we're happy for. We're happy for because I told her personally, she's never hotter than she's you know, she she's on fire right now. So for her to venture out and do whatever she can do take over the world. So we wanted to give you guys that intro to the situation. We hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Welcome back, Episode twelve, All the Smoke, My brother, my god, we're back. Some powder on your hands. We got the amazing, amazing Carrie Champion, thank you for yours, your our first female guests. I know, okay, how how'd that happen? You had an eye for you? Okay, now to keep it real, I mean, we just love what you've been doing, you know what I mean, the fact that you're you know, you're heading Sports Center, and that's only one of the many things you're doing. You know, with the success from television obviously in the sports world, that's open a lot of doors. Tell some of the other stuff you're doing. First off, I have to say, I'm so happy to be here because I work with you guys both. And I don't know if people know this because they sit here and they see you guys, and they're like, oh, they just talk and they have such fun and they're cool and they know people in the league. But you guys have really transition. That ship's hard to do, right. So, like, as an athlete to become a broadcaster, you have a voice that people respect. Obviously they respect you, but you do it so effortlessly both y'all. And I just I think that nobody acknowledges that, Like, the ship is not easy. We get appear and we talk and they think it's easy and all these so many athletes, I me, especially while players, they want to transition. They want to. Basketball players want to do this. They want to And you can't just sit up here and just start talking and think it's gonna work because it doesn't work right. You appreciate. Yeah, No, I have a lot of jobs I have. I work on a show with the Rock called Titan Games that hears on NBC. So I host that show, which I love because it lets me. Do I have more personality? You guys both know off camera I have more personality. I think people feel like I'm really like elegant and up time, and that's not me. So let's be a little more comfortable. And then, um, I host a lot of different things where I just try to, you know, have a little bag and keep it aside for myself. I like to make all my money. I don't have to wait on nobody give me no money, all my little change. And then I have a foundation that I run what's called Brown Girl's Dream where I I um it's so many like dope. Young ladies would always hit me up in my my inbox and say, carry how do you do this? Or how did you do that? Or can you help me? Whether it be in front of the camera behind the scenes, they just want to they want some help. And I know when I was coming up, there was nobody like I just had to figure it out on my own, and so I created this really formal mentorship where I help young girls who in the age is very right, it could be anywhere from twenty to thirty, but I helped them get into a world where otherwise people just overlooked them because so many women, especially if you are a woman of color, you're overlooked. You might be qualified, but you're overlooked. So I'm just taking them to the front of the line and I'm like, here you go, here's somebody who's great. You may have overlooked her. She deserves an opportunity. Just having so important for sure, that's that's the biggest thing, especially for the young youth, just to have a resource and nowhere to go. I think that's that's huge on your point. Thank you, I appreciate it. There's a handful of you guys are really in the space women of color who are opening doors and letting women know. You know what I mean, This isn't this is a platform you can utilize now. Before it was unheard of to have a black woman, it was a voice on television, it was on the outside of Oprah has been doing it for some years. That's why I love Oprah, Like I that's what I was a kid. I saw Oprah. I was like, Mom, I want to do what this lady is doing because she looks like my auntie or like somebody to be in the house like you would watch her AND's just like wow, she's she's fascinating and she just obviously she was. If you see it, you can believe it. And I think when I started at UM, like I have been, I was a journalist for a minute. But when I started at ESPN, which was like seven years ago, I was hosting a show called First Take with Steven had him on here and Skip Bayless at the time, and I remember I could count in my hands how many women I thought looked like me that I saw on TV all the time. Was only seven years ago. Yeah, I know, it feels like forever, right, it feels like forever. UM. But they had just became partners, like Skipped and Steven A had just became partners. They weren't they weren't always. They had just started that relationship and then they wanted somebody just to sit in the middle and kind of tee it up. And it was just a real simple role. I wasn't supposed to really like get into it or get into the debates or any of that stuff, which was cool, which was fine. I didn't care. I just like the opportunity. But at the time, there was no at ESPN, there was no black woman working Monday through Friday sitting at a desk, and especially on that show. That show was like high visibility. I didn't have to you know, it wasn't tough, but it was high visibility. And at the time I did not know that I was working with those two personalities. You just don't have had no idea. And I remember Jamal Hill pulled me aside one day and was like, girl, so let me just put you on some game real quick and try to tell me what it would be. She was like, I was supposed to get this gig. They told me it was mine. Um, in so many words, they gave it to you. People may want us not to like one another, right because you got it and not me. She was like, but I will not let that narrative live. She was like, I have your back from day one to tear me. That's tell me that's not that's she I'm a big fan of her Man in the space. I know Jack has a good relationship with her, she's been she's always kept it real. Who does that and speaks your mind? I mean I think, like I said, for you, we spoke a little bit off. Cameron will get into Gabby as well, but you know, for you, you're someone who speaks your mind. She's someone who speaks her mind and is refreshing, you know what I mean. Because it's always the pictures, always paying it as you know, an angry black women or you know, hard to work with. The stereotypes and the labels get pushed around. But it's good to see that you guys have made it through. Although it's you know, it's a it's an ongoing battle, but you're at a place where you can, you know, you freely speak for the most part. Well, I think that that those labels will always be there, which is why I started the foundation because I feel like, and you guys know what it is like you you come on TV and you don't look like the rest of the analyst, you don't talk like the rest of the analysts, and so if people don't understand who you are, they judge you or they're uncomfortable. And so I got to the point where I'm like, why does your the level of your uncomfortable. Why does that have to affect me? You're uncomfortable, you have to get comfortable, Like, that's not my situation. So I feel like, you know, with Jay, and Jay taught me this a lot. I'll tell you she was really my mentor, Like she schooled me on a lot at ESPN and how to move and make sure you have people who have your back or have an advocate because those closed door meetings, watch the motherfucker's watch the motherfucker's right, so many words what she was saying, watch your back, watch hi, because if you ain't got nobody you you're in trouble because people can say yes or no, and that can affect your career, not be the end of it. Um. So I think that that's what I'm trying to do with my foundation. And I think that I've gotten to a point where like Jamal will always be like or some of the people that we have in common will be like and I'll just say at work will be like, you know, the athletes funk, would you carry you? Like? They get you, They get it, they get it like they know it's not easy. I'm not sitting up here just pretending and and and and moving through life like there's no care. They know how hard it is, behind it, behind you know, behind the doors, behind closed doors. Where did all this begin? Like your your love of sports and your aspirations to take this? Um, I worked, Okay, So I wasn't kidding when I told you. When I was a kid, I saw Oprah and I was like, I'm gonna do whatever that is. Mom. Okay, it wasn't. It wasn't wasn't saying it wasn't nothing. Well, I ran track in high school and I wasn't good enough. I played. I ran track and play basketball in high school, but I wasn't good enough. And knew that. I was like, all right, so what else can I do? But I always talk. Teachers would be like, I always be the student. I was talking too much? Can you get your daughter? She talked to damn much. You're right at nothing chance talk running my mouth with the back of class not paying attention. Um. And then and I mean, I'm not gonna lie. Like of course I had, you know, modeling moments, and I wanted to be in videos and stuff growing up here in l A. Because I grew up, I went to U C. L A. I went to passing in high school. So yeah, for the best. No, we haven't been very good lately, but yeah, just the family. Family. The family is dope. So um. Then I got my first job in West Virginia. So I drove my little Nissan ultimately West Virginia to be a reporter. And I was a one man band. So you see how like they got their cameras in tripod. That's what I was doing, running around West Virginia film and stories. Hello, racist, people will call me the colored lady, but I love what I was doing. I didn't care like you didn't care that you was making two dollars an hour and you look crazy on TV. I was telling stories that I was living my best life, and I was like, look, this is what I this is what I've always wanted to do. Was a complimentary hi, I was, I'll take it. I wasn't mad at I was just loving life. And then what you do is when you work in local news, you just work your way up. And then I got fired in Atlanta. That was like market. I think there's like two D markets, right, So Atlanta was like top ten market. And I got fired when I was there because I was just being me and what that means is I have a lot of fire in my family, so as and so you. But there's a way you go about it right. Because I had never lived outside of l A. So really living in Atlanta and you know how right, I was like, wait, oh this is this is what this is. It's totally different. I had to learn. It was on the job training, um, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Because I had to I had to reboot. I had to change my trajectory and I went into sports and I started working in tennis, and I saw she wrote, I flew myself out to ESPN Like every job, I get a hustle, and nobody's been like you know what, brown girl, let me fool with you so heavy, like you're so bad, let me No one does that now. But everything I've ever gotten literally has been on my own. And I flew myself at the ESPN. I was just knocking on doors and then they were like, okay, we'll get back to you. And then I would just keep calling and keep calling. I just check in, said my resume, reel check in. And one day they called and they were like, you want to host this show called first take, and I was like, yeah, bullshit and they were like no, like do you want to host this show? And I'm like what about the guy who? You know? Jay Crawford was the host at the time in Data And I was like, wait, we're and they're like, oh, they're moving on, Da da da da, And I was like okay. So I go out do the audition, literally auditioning with skim and steaping the outside of me. So I'm I'm nervous, but I'm pretending like I'm not nervous. But in general, I don't know them. I know nothing about it. But they were in the show. They're yelling back and forth, and I'm like, dare they're gonna yell at me? And what's forth? So I'm reading the prompter and so they do a series of things right just to throw me off. So I'm reading the prompter and I'm taking teaking them both up with questions and stuff, and then the prompter just goes off and then they say they me to go from the script from memory. They just turned the prompter off, like to see if she can can she add it? Can she freest out? Can she do it on her own? And I kept my cool and it was a wrap. So, um, I killed that ship, and I swear on my life, I was like, I killed it. Then I remember talking to a friend of mine and I said, I did great, but I'm black. I'm not gonna get it. And she was like what. I was like, They're not looking for no black girl to host that show. They're looking for a blonde. Like what are you talking about. I remember just having this honest conversation like I might be freelancing and be working for the Lakers or something like. This is just my thought process. I said, if they call me by a certain time, which was like two weeks later, because I was going to I was working at the Tennis Channel, and I said, if they called me by the US Open and say, hey, you're gonna be here in New York, can you come up? I got the job. So no call, no call, spent two weeks no call. Um, you already know how the story go obviously. So then like I was flying out on Monday and they called me on Saturday and said can you come and one meet Jamie who was hiring at the time at the US Open, and then two can you come up to the studio one more time? And do an audition again. And I was like, okay, and I saw she wrote it was a rap. It's done. Can you believe that? Ship? But that's why I always held people like just hustle, like nothing comes to you. I can't stand at people want nothing. I flew myself out there. I stayed in a little broke down brust the hotel, not the nice one that they got nowt of the Double Tree, but it was even more broke down than that. I probably have no money, like I was, just I had whatever I had, and I just paid for myself to go there and back. And I was there for two days, just sitting in the lobby waiting for people to beat me. No, I had no planned meetings. I was like, okay, whoever wont to come see me? I wait, I wait? And then I was at and I got the job, and then my entire life change, Like I was like, wait, why is it? Why is everybody tweeting me? Why? Why? Because you know it was aggressive as fans and they were so mean. They were like I was like, what, what's what's happened? And then it was exactly exactly what we talked a little bit the other day when I was able to host Sports Center, and that was one of the things you told me, you know, because you know, I just signed a deal with ESPN and I'm going to start being doing it more. She's like, you need to go to prestil, you need to sit down and knock on these doors. You need to take these lunches, you need to take these dinners. And she was kind of laying it out, and I think it was dope, you know what I mean, because I think, you know, once they let us in and they're kind of scared because we're you know, we're good at it, you know what I mean, they're like, uh, They're like, wait a minute, what's happening. Where'd you come from? Going on? What's going on? Tell me some of the difficulties you faced first and almost being a woman, but then being a woman of color on on your journey to the top. I think just the obvious stuff. I think I'm always in a room and I'm the only one like now right, it's always just in this a lot of male energy. And if it's a lot of male energy, and if you're not comfortable, that's intimidating. And it takes a long time to be yourself I think working especially, I have so many lessons just from first take. When I was on first I'd be the only one in the room and then they'd be like, here are your thoughts, and I'm like nervous, aren't pits wet? And then I just finally was you get so y'all know how it feels. I don't know what how it was translating basketball. You get to the point where you just don't care anymore and you just yourself and you just so like take it to leave it. And it got to the point where I was there were so many nose and that doesn't make sense. And don't get me wrong, I wasn't. I didn't know much about a lot of different sports. I knew basketball, but I had to learn football. I had to learn a lot of different things. And it was on the job training and I would you know, they would look past you like a lot of the times when I was you know, first take people who look past you like or or there would be people who didn't address you, they just addressed them. It's I mean, I can count so many times I was embarrassed daily. I was daily embarrassed or humbled, and and I'm not gonna lie. I remember picking up I remember picking up Jamale one day. I keep throwing her back because that was my dog and I had um I had some champagne in my cup. You're not supposed to drink and drive guys. And so I picked her up and I'm like, I quit and she was like what. I had been there like a year. She's like, what else? I quit? I'm done. I said, I'm telling my Monday. And she was like, what's wrong with you? And I was like, I can't do it. It's breaking my spirit. And I was like, it's cold, it's miserable. I ain't got no friends, no family, and she wasn't living there at the time. I was like, it's just hard because it's ship's hard. And I just every day you get up, you get dressed, you do your best, and somebody's telling you you're not doing your best. How do you how do you deal with that? You know? How do you how do you keep finding your encouragement? And then I just had to dig deep because I'm not a quitter, but I but I tell you, it was it was close. It's hard when stacked against it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to find your motivation. It's hard to trust anybody because you can't trust anybody right, And then you find yourself in this situation where you're like, how do I keep getting up dealing with this every day being told? And at that time you have to understand like that show was like off the It's still popular, but it was off the charge with those two. And then I had people telling me on social I wasn't nothing, and I got you know, and I'm sitting in this cold he's trying to find my footing, like I want to do something else because I can't really talk on the show like it was this tough um and then I just it's preseverance. You just pushed through. I was determined that I was like after I had my little, my little breakdown, my little emotional breakdown, and um, I just was like I gotta figure this shoot out. And I did and it ended up working in my favor. And none of it has been easy. But when you know, when you get to a certain level, none of it's supposed to be easy. None of it's supposed to be easy. All of it's supposed to be hard. And if it's not hard, you're not working enough. So I'm okay with all of that. Tell me what it was like having to pay your dues in Bristol and then finally being coming back to California where you're from and now you're I was, you know what, it was weird. I didn't even know I was coming back. They they were like, hey, I think we're going to create a show called Close to Coast. You want to go back home? I was like, I thought there was planning. I was like, y'all, y'all being funny, and they're like, no, I'm serious. And it was great because when I here's the thing Michael Smith told me this a long time ago, when I started shout out to Mike, that's my dog, right, we love him. So when I first got to I'll just give you all the business. When I first got there, I had been there for about maybe a year and a half, maybe two, and we were going to maybe it was a Super Bowl. Was traveling somewhere and I was walking around with Mike and um people were stopping me and asking me for my autographer to take a picture, and it was like other athletes are just people in general, and I was I was so shocked. I was like, wait, oh, there there asking for to take a picture with me. This is when I had just had been been at ESPN for two years and Mike turning to me, he was like, oh, oh you still I ain't ship bubble huh. And I was like, I was like what. He's like, Oh you still think you ain't ship Oh they got you? Okay. He was like, they got you. You need to get like he shook me, and he was like, you have to understand where we live and where we work. It's not real life. He was like, you're doing your thing and if nobody tells you, I'm here to tell you. So you gotta get out of that bubble because you're just you're like this. And then uh, I come to l A and I was like, oh wait okay, and people I was like okay, maybe okay. I'm like you know when about it, but like okay, which was good for me, right because I want I wasn't trying to you don't want to get too hired, too low. You just want to be like this. You don't want to get too hired, too low, so you can't be too hard on yourself. But you can't thank you to ship ship ship. So I was just right here and it was easy. Yeah, sh I was so we just I mean, we had a good time. And when I came here, I had all these other opportunities. Um. I got to work with a lot of people that were nice. Um and then you know you, you just you. I'm from here, so you have to you have to understand like I measured it. I don't. I'm not out here like you know we Brad hit and Angelina Jolie, like people are famous, but I don't. I don't trip off that. I'm like, okay, because when you grow up here, like you go out of your way to act like you don't see famous people. Like is this like all right, right, You're like I got cool whatever, That's fine, that's something magic whatever. I'm tripping, although I did trip when I first met magic. But yeah, some of your favorite moments in sports? What makes you for a reward? We know you talk to a lot of people, You've done a lot of a lot of work in the space. What makes you feel rewarded out of all the work have you done. I like good stories. I like just telling really good stories. I like to see people win, not just physically win, but win in general. So like um, there's so many Okay, so a personal story, Like everyone asked how much you love sports? So growing up here as always a Laker fan, right as all the dems you, how good you look, and how we praise you us know what makes you feel rewarded? Besides that I get no DM everybody pay all those guys on your page praise you carry I'll read it all day. I read it all day, guys cut read it all day. What but what makes you feel good when I when I can do a story about somebody who we had a kid, and what I think is really important? Now I'm knowing that a lot of black men are dealing with a lot of personal issues, right and in sports, you guys don't talk about it. But it's becoming more and more common that black men are talking about how they're dealing with depression or how they are struggling, and how it's really hard to live a life that so many different people want them to live. Like, I don't even think people understand the pressure that it takes. I think you can catch a football. You got all this money, You should be happy you could. You could dribble a ball, put it through back. Oh, you should be happy, but they don't understand how they grew up or what they're dealing with the other side, and people constantly asking for something, money, people, whatever. Y'all know better than anybody. So for me, I've always felt bad for the athletes, like I've have had an empathy, and now that I can see and be able to help and witness that a lot of these these young boys, even grown men, are coming out saying I need help, I'm struggling and life is hard. I'm not as tough as I'm trying to make y'all feel like. I don't care how much money I got on the change I got, how many broads I cry, I cry, she's hard, like I'm having a mental breakdown today is tough. Um. And we were able to do a story one athlete and the fact that he said he was getting help and starting to get help and feeling a little more, a little more easy, not thinking about taking his life. Those kind of messages that I get are rewarding, like that, that's what we're here to do. We're here to help and tell really great stories. Like of course there's a fun stuff, but to me that's huge because in our community, you know, well, you're supposed to be taught be strong, be strong, be strong, that's what you just like this, to be strong. But it's okay to say I'm not strong. It's okay to say I heard like my mind's not right. Like they've been teaching. They've been teaching us to be strong and be able to take so much, but they don't teach being real with yourself enough, you know what I mean. And that's when you start to turn the corner when you're being real with yourself. Yeah, you can be tough as hell, but you gotta be real with yourself when you're dealing with life and everything you're going through. You know what I mean. Don't live with don't live by facade, be real with yourself, and to make it for everybody to be real. It's hard because you don't want people to like men are, in general, in my opinion, hard. They don't. They're not expressive. It's very few men like to talk about their feelings. You want to go in the cave and figure it out. So then you want me to turn around and tell you that I feel weak and I haven't figured it out, and I'm vulnerable and all these emotions that you're just not familiar with that make you feel like somebody could take advantage of you in a world where people do nothing but take advantage of you. Everybody's asking you for money. Everybody need a new house, new car, knew this, knew that. You don't know if she really likes you for you? Right, you got and you and sometimes you indulge in all of that, but it's all a facade because you go home and you're tired, and you're weak, and you drained, you mentally and physically drained. And now that I'm starting to see so many of these guys talk about it um in a much more you know, eloquent way, without feeling like someone's gonna make fun of them or they won't have the same respect in the locker room. To me, is rewarding because that's the turn. That's the term where you're seeing as we haven't seen that. That's the turn, and it's beautiful. I love it. What's the most positive and negative aspects of or the effective had on your positive and negative through social media? The positive of social media and the negative of social media? Life and career, because I mean, you know, working for who you work for, you really have the money to yourself. Oh my god. Yeah, that's that's the negative. Like some days I want to be on there like so like I'll follow you guys stack too. He'll be like cursing, like that's what I wanted to say, or like you know what I mean. That's just the freedom. When I see people tweet free, I'm like freedom, Like I want to say what they're saying, or when things are happening, I'm like that that would be my tweet, Yeah it or whatever. I like it. But I think the negative is that I'm not allowed to, which is a good and the bad. I'm not allowed to. In my opinion, I police myself on what I say because a hundred forty characters like you can't really get out or even more than that, you can't really have a nuanced opinion, and everybody thinks their opinion matters, so I don't really delve into Twitter. I think social media UM has made everybody feel like they're missing out on something or they or that person's life is better or they want that, or how come they don't have that? Or why is she winning or he winning and I'm not winning. Those are the things that I think will ultimately UM take its toll on you. Sometimes I just got to tap out, like I just I can't even be on it. Um. I think the beauty of it though, is that if you have something special to share you are, you want people to know who you really are, you can do that Like I feel like sometimes you guys post and I'm like, oh, I could tell that's who Mad is, or I can tell that's who Stack is, or you can really show a side of you that people may not be able to get by just listening to you on the podcast or see you for two minutes on Sports Center and um. And so I use that to my platform, like I sell. I sell certain things that I want people to know that you know. But I'm very look, I'm very private, like social media is for my benefit and that's what I've chosen to be that way, because I'm goody be like, oh you ain't got no miss Y, ain't got no man, that's why you're gonna have you know. But that's a that's because you know sometimes words that that when people here st come about your mom, they can't twist that, but you can type up on Instagram and they automatically going twisted. So it's good you don't do that. It's good and I think that I mean, I think you touched on it perfectly for Jack and myself, as you know, we were labeled this one way our whole career for different reasons, uh, and we just took advantage of being that and it got us fourteen year NBA careers and championships and money. But I think the platform of Instagram in particular is just you know, so on the other side, you know, the father, the charitable side of the coach, who I really am speaking freely without be worried about being fined by the NBA, like you said, with your esp and stuff. So it's to really be you. And you know, when people are real enough to show you who they are, you know, I think people do appreciate that because, like you said, they get a snapshot of you and they form an opinion of who they think you are. And it could be the furst thing from the truth sometimes. Yeah, and they need to listen, Like I think people follow you, They're gonna pay attention, like wait, wait, hold on, I see another side. I remember. Can I tell a story when I met you both separate instances. I met you when I was working on first take and we're on the road in San Antonio and you were a guest on the show, and and you were I think maybe that I think yeah, And you were like Papa's trip, like you kept it was like I should be on the team or whatever. You were really nice. I thought, you know, I wouldn't call you nice. You were very professional, and you were very much about your business. And I thought to myself, like, because we did another interview with you after words and you were talking about it, I guess you had an album come out, yeah, and we were talking to you about that, and I just thought, Okay, he's got layers. I don't think everybody knows like you were very very like. I didn't. I didn't say the town you were from, right. You made sure you like pulled off or you got it wrong, like he was like he was all right. Then I thought to myself, I was like, that's nice, and you were just very professional. I didn't I didn't get like, I didn't get DM stag Liss. I was just like I appreciate him, like I appreciated that because I felt like that was like a mutual respect. I met Matt. You you're on my podcast, my my podcast to be honest, and it was right after we tell we tell the story off to you, Um, can I tell it? Okay? It was what he was maybe dating Rihanna at the time, where you had just got done dating. Okay, well yeah, that's what the whole gist it was. And she was one of the people like, let me, let me get this, let me get this. So they were connected somehow, some way, I guess some teams. He came up to you and asked you something something like that, and we I had you in the podcast and I asked you about it and you don't ask my friend or whatever, and you were very I felt at the time because somebody had I guess, you know, said that on Rihanna's behalf that you didn't know each other and you were talking about it. And this was the first time I ever really believed to dude, because I'm like, liter Rihanna, everybody goes they are all these dudes lines in the date or the date or they like her whatever. But then you start telling the story. I was like, oh, no, he's telling the truth. Yeah, because you could be lying, okay. So I was like, oh, I was like, that's unfortunate. But you were real chill about it. And I was again another instance where I was like, he's not at all what I thought. So I think it's really important that people have these moments, like I try not to judge people unless I experience that myself. Like I gotta experience you, I gotta sit with you, I gotta talk with you. People can look at me and say whatever they want, but I want them to sit with me and experience me. Yeah, and it's the same thing. I want to take you back to two thousand and fourteen, kind of still dealing with social media and with that the clown already laying tweeted about you and what was what did you learn from that? In kinda now that you are someone that's looked in at a certain light and there's people that just are crazy and disrespectful. Name is fun Boy. Yeah, I's not new m. We were, Um, you know that was crazy because I never ever, I've never really talked about that. We were doing a show and um, you know how you check your your social media during we always check the doing commercial break and I was like, what it was just like these series of tweets and I was just I thought it was I don't know I don't know what I thought it was. And then I um when I went to a guy who were on social media at the time, and I was like, I said, is this real? And he was like, Yo, this dude was crazy. And I was like, yeah, like this is And here's the funny thing. I used to be a big fan of Howard Stern. He used to be on the show and I used to like listening to him on Howard Stern and I just thought, I was like, why does this white man think it's funny to make jokes about slavery? Like I was like, how are we? How are whatever? I was just like this is crazy, this is and I'm like on a platform, I was like, what do you if I didn't look the way, if I was blind with this big funny like what what joke would he make? Like you say something like that, you're gonna get fired so quick. I wouldn't even have an opportunity. And um, I remember you guys that were gonna laugh at this story. I remember going to a couple of folks like in the house and they kind of just like just like like don't worry about it, Like could nobody give a funk? They were just like, yeah, shake it off, and it really it really hit me, like I was like, yo, that's like no respect, Like damn, Like I worked this hard and I'm still getting disrespected. Nobody has my back. Oh man. I was like, if you gotta way to pros and cons, so I have enough of the savings. And then I was like, I remember your girl. We keep talking about her, Miss Hill. She sent out this these series of tweets. You know she's good at that, she'll drop them, bomb her words, and so she just started, like, I mean literally lit him up. I remember going home because I lived in Bristol by myself, just turned off my TV, turned off my phone. I just went to bed because I was tired. I was just like I was emotionally drained because I'm just like, I'm just damned. This ship is so hard? Why is it so hard? And then I woke up and I was trending. I was like, I didn't know what the hell was happening. And apparently like it became this thing like people had came at people out of the woolwork just went at his head and he was and then people started to pay attention. That's the power of social media you're talking about. Then people started to say, Okay, this fool is a clown, and then it started to get talked about it, and then it was like think pieces and it was on all these different shows and they were like, he's banned from ESPN again, come on here anymore. And he he apparently had a friend who tried to reach out to me to tell me he was sorry. I wasn't even listening. But at the point, at that point, it had become so bad. Do you remember the movie Twelve Years of Slave. Remember that movie was out, and this is how cruel social media is. Do you remember that the campaign for it, it was a slave something right, people happened my face. I don't want to laugh. I don't want to laugh believe that. That's crazy. And I was like, yo, how disrespectful is this? Like a bunch of people were sending me that, like defending him, like having his back, and I was like, what world do we live in where that's okay? Like none of this is okay. And then and I just never talked about it because I was just so hurt. I was really hurt because I was just like that, like, as a woman who is respected also, I thought or this. You know, I'm sitting here doing my job, minding my business. I was like, why is that okay for this white man to do that and still treat me this way or treat us this way, or have this image of us. None of that's funny. None of that's funny. And so it just became this whole to do and everyone, you know, we already know what happened to him. Yeah, well, speaking kind of in this realm, and and with the treatment that you guys get in the space, you know Gabby is going through right now. We talked about alf Khama, how proud of her you are and what she's doing. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? I just I just sent her a message. I said, well, she obviously got let go from this show, right, she got let go from America's got talent um. And and you don't have to renew somebody's contract. We know that's the nature of the business. No one's entitled, right, but you would think if you do your job and you do it well, rewarded and she did that, right, So how do you like she We're watching all these people you know, fail upward and she's succeeding downward, like how why is she not being brought back? Right? So she's just frustrated. I remember just being like, I'm so frustrated. I don't know what's going on. I'm so frustrated, which I understand. And then she was like, what should I do? And I remember her just really thinking it through because you have to realize, and she's talked about it later. No matter what, especially with women of color, no matter what, you could whisper, and your voice is still too loud for a world that never intended to hear it. You could whisper, you could just say, hey, can I talk to you and use all my happy words. I'm uncomfortable with this and it's still a problem. And so she was tired, like her quote, not mine, I'm tired of being a happy negro. I'm tired of just being here. And the response to what she's dealing with, in terms of how people have had her back, has been overwhelming because normally you just gets you know, pushed to the side, and its who knows, because she knows the end result of her speaking up and saying what she said could end up with her not having another type of job like that again, right, it could and like, well was your rich husband. But that's now, that's it's not the point at the point, like if you know where she want to work hard, she got her own mind. And it's also the fact of the respect, like I've been in for so long? Are we still doing this? Like at the bottom line, like I've been nothing but professional, handle myself accordingly, I show up on time, I go above and beyond. I'm twice as good as everybody else. Why why am I not getting the respect? When do what? Do? What do I have to do? And so I was really proud of her because for us, a group of women have talked about it, it's happening in real life. It's like three point oh, I've never seen anybody do what she's doing and think at the support. Usually it happens and then there's a pushback. They're mad at you, you can't work no more, or no one's writing about it, or no one's applauding you and saying good for you, thank you for standing up. I appreciate that, and I mean it's beautiful for us, it's beautiful, and it's big. It's not following on deaf ears anymore, you know what I mean? I think for so long it fell on deaf ears, like they don't want you to speak in the first place. So, you know, but it's people are you know. I just think we're power social media, you know. I mean, it's really the power of social media, you know when you start. You know, because I spoke to it too after it happened, she's you know, so it's like, you know, you know, I freely speak. I was like, whatever you need me to post, let me know. I got you. You know, I love that you want to come on the show. And she's like, I definitely want to come on the show. But it's just like you get allies, and now we all have a voice that not only certain people have a voice. So now we can start attacking or at least fireback. Yeah, I want and I want that freedom. What you need me to post, That's where I'm going, That's what I'm moving, That's my next level. You'll be there soon enough. On the brighter side, huge, huge, huge U C l A and Laker fan, but particularly Lakers. Talk to me about that. I love a Lakers, d'all, not just because like you, but not just because they're like you guys have to okay, family I'm gonna give you out the whole background. I don't get the breakdown. Here's the break Okay. So my grandmother grew up in the segregated South. Un know I was gonna bring my grandma. She grew up in a segregated album. She she she played basketball right to all black school in Magnolia, Arkansas, And so when her mother moved to California, she left secretary school and came here and became a Laker fan right away. Now, my grandmother can't drive. This is a funny story, still alive. Amazing lady. But she would want to go to these Laker games, but no one wanted to go with her or drive her. So she would catch the bus to the farm where we go with her, like eighties, and who would go with her. I don't know what was going on, but it was me and I'd be right there with her this sitting there on her nose bleeds, yes, but I didn't really know what was happening. But she's like explaining the game to me and how much she loves the Lakers and this that in the third and a c green and da dada da da. She love him. He was so cute because he had Jerry Curl like it was all these it was all these stories. She loved Magic, like it was all these stories worthy. Like I go down the list, Cooper in his socks, and she would just be talking about it. That's all she ever talked about when he was a kid, when I when she watched us, that's because she will always watch this because my mom was working, so she would watch this. Oh ever talked about and at one point she would take We used to have these family photos that were framed up all around the house, and whenever she got to meet one of them and they signed it, Yeah, don't don't care what coming out. That's Magic Johnson. That is a fact. And so our pictures would come out one by one and it'd be all the Lakers, no love right, literally black and white photos of Magic, a c Greek who whoever she met, like whoever she caught the bus to meet, Like literally she would on the bus to meet anybody wherever they were signing, because back then it was easy. You could just they signed in here, show up at the warehouse or whatever. So obviously I became a Laker fan, and it was right, you know, when they were baling the Celtics and we would just sit and watch and she was so into it, so I had to be into it. So because that was it, like I was. I was literally at her knee all the time. That's all I ever knew. And so it went all the way back to there. And then of course my fandom is just even more crazy, so Kobe Shack amplified. And then when they when Kobe and Shack were battling, it was like the city was divided. You remember, it was like he was shacky with Kobe before it was like it was crazy because you was just like who you know at the beginning I was with Shack. Of course, everybody was a shock initially, Initially everybody was a shock because everyone, yeah, hello, and they were like, well, hold on, let's not rush to judgment. I can understand you wanting a trade. You remember he was all bad, right, And then then this is my um, the whole thing is like flak. Your fans are ridiculous because we're like, we're spoiled and we've always been in a conversation and someone we don't want. I even have to admit this. I used to talk so bad about Lebron, like so bad, like I'd be like, he ain't got it. I know, I'm mad. I told myself. Lebron and I had had this conversation. I was like I should I was wrong. I'm sorry. I was like I did not like you. I was like, welcome, let me welcome to the family. I mean, but he was just like he was like all Laker fans hated me because of Kobe. And you know why, because as Lebron started to as sin, we felt like people didn't give Kobe his his chest do. We felt like it went from Michael Jordan Lebron, You're like, wait a minute, Kobe, and still they still do right, and so we take it. We took its own personal, so personal, like you be ready to fight. And I thought to myself, I said, okay, I understand why now I think, look, I mean, look if somebody put some true sermon, Kobe, he said the same thing, like why you don't don't skip over me like at all. But the reality is is that when you're just such a fan, that's how it was, and so you just want to win, like I I just it kills me because you know, our fans are self and out of them. Then when not something the one time I faked the bone, people wanted to really like I was getting death threat like you know what I mean. In the I didn't like you. The Latino population was on my head, like you know, Dodgers and Lakers. They'll kill for Kobe and they'll kill for the fucking Dodgers. So it was really like that summer like ship was crazy. But it ended fast because that's the summer Kobe had called me like, Yo, come anyone, Carrey. You know the fun when we come play with me. So then I came to the Lakers, and then all the Mexican people because they thought I was Mexican slate, thought, man, we gotta we gotta Mexican homie on the Lakers now. And I would do my signings and they were and I finally had tells like I'm not I'm black in the Italian you know, but they still But it was crazy because I tell that story when you said, they would be like, oh, we have to take out one of our own. Yeah, they know, they for real, they thought they were gonna have to take out you know, they have to take out one of them, and you know, someone in their own blood, like they wanted. They were wanted off with my head, you know what I mean. And then I ended up becoming a Laker right after that. But you make yellow pageo jokes, but they really thought I was Mexican. They was on they were at my like you the summer and I was reading. I was reading these tweets and like a Mexican like and say voice like we'll kill you homes and we see you tell you ship, I'm like a ship. But been right after that and then like and I talked to her about sing No, we didn't with you at all. It was crazy, It was rude. How do you separate your fandom in your professional career? I absolutely do not. You ever catch bo TV, I absolutely do not. And the reason why I don't, I will tell you this. I think that everybody who ever who works in this in this arena in any capacity, especially if they haven't played. But if you were, you have your teams like you love your teams like you know, you know Steven A. Les Nicks, you'll talk about how our his Steelers, or you know, my my co host David Lloyd loves the Cowboys, like everyone talks about their team that they love and it's okay. So no, I don't separate it. I I don't separate it one little bit. I love it well. I like because, like I said, you've always spoken freely, and Dwight's first go around with the Lakers, you let him know how you feel, then he let you know how he feels. Yeah, it was uncompany tell that though, because people might I know, and then you guys sat down and squashed the beef somewhat. Um, I don't think it's yeah. I mean, I'm not mad at him, but what I thought, what Dwight did I'm always ahead of occurred because I said, I was like, we don't want him. I don't like all these key detwelve bill remember the billboards, and why so many men out they're killing you? Why you choose a woman to go And that's kind of weak, that's kind of wenna. I'm not gonna lie to you though. If some women you wouldn't slick to me, you would have came remember went back at her. What did I say? Tell me what I remember what you said? But it was crazy At the time. I was like, Yo, he came on, he came on, he came on sports station when I was hosting it, and um, he said something to me first. Really, yeah, he set the story right. Yeah. He said something to me first, saying a woman was slick. Sometimes he gets talked back to what I'm saying. Oh god, you see the world I live in working with man, do y'all see? But I'm not afraid, I'm furious. I don't care. So he said something like he's like but not like some people who don't like me. No more, he said something like to that effect, like knowing that I didn't like him. No, I remembering that I didn't like him. I said, are you firying to me? And I was like, yeah, no, I didn't. And I said, I'll tell you why. I was like fans or no. He said, Laker fans treated him really bad when he was leaving, and he didn't like it. He was like like some people. And he looked at me, and I was like, right, because you like it just happens. But I get he wanted. He thought it was gonna be funny because you know, he's a silly guy. But I was ready for it because I I said, again, I take everything so personal about my Lakers, and I was like I was with the ships. I was like, this is why we didn't like you. We felt like you let the team down. We felt like the last few games you were playing, you know, halfheartedly, like you didn't want to be there. Then why even play at all? Why evencome? Why go through the motions? I just felt like you quit on your team, and no athletes should ever quit on the team. Like I just felt like, you get paid to do a job. Do your damn job. I don't care if you don't like what's going on. Leave all your emotions out there, like no one has time for that, show up and play. And he was like, no, well, let me tell you what really happened. I wasn't mad at anybody, Mitch cup Check and he was talking about the whope, like how he got ejected and he just explained it and we just I was, but I was with it because I was I have been waiting, I have been waiting. I was like, okay, go ahead, sir, because I wasn't. I understood that he felt some type of way. And then him and Kobe had beef, you know, so I was just taking up for Kobe. Kobe needed me to take up him because he could, and I got it, like kidding, he didn't do that, but it was I'm mad at Dwight. I think Dwight actually is really misunderstood now that I see a lot of them, like I think that. I think knowing him off camera, I think that maturity plays a huge or lack thereof plays a huge role in how he handles himself. He's a big guy, so everybody expecting the biggest, big mein guy. But he told obviously he loves life. He being happy guy, lucky dude. He's a nice guy. He should be a little mean in my book. But yeah, I agree with that, you too, Yeah right though? Yeah, but no, he's a He's a sign this go around. Now he's playing, I think he's the ex factor. Oh no, yeah for sure. And I said it. But when they signed him because we don't want dwighte we remember the first time I'm to myself like this dude knows is his last chance? Yeah, up here, you're done. I was trying to play with my whole career team. I played with him in Orlando when he was the ship people don't really like. Oh nine ish Superman led the league and led the league in All Star votes over Kobe, over Lebron, over Katie. He was two time defensive player. Dwhite was incredible, and then he came to him, no question, he came to the Lakers. They had that back injury, and I think he tried to rush back from that and people don't take it. Like people we talked about this on one of the very first episodes. People don't give it. If you're on that court, they don't give an what's behind you, and like you gotta play and coming back from a back injury. I saw he went from being superman to barely be able to jump. And I'm just like, damn, and you just happen to do that on the Lakers. He can't do that on the Laker stage. He was like, I had a back injury. Nobody knew I was playing injured, and they don't care. Real fans don't give That's how it is, right, everybody's injured, right, welcome, everybody's injured. So anyway, whatever we got, we got, we got over it. But did I was like, you ain't lying. If you had came on the show that I was hosting after you did that to Kobe, we would have fought, like I probably would have agreed that, but put him fasciline on my face. I would have been like, where are you at? Where you at? I would have been like, you would have been like, if she serious, how dare you attack Kobe like that? I would do that for you all though, Like if you were like, like, if somebody's talking bad about you'all, y'all even now, I would do that the guy that said that about you and tell him were having a Christmas part of Christmas tree and beat the Yeah, I love it. I love it Lebron and a D combo. I mean I love it. Um, I got to winning the championship. You do, Yeah, yeah, I got A D has been tim dunking on steroids, And of course I think the Bron is the best player in the world. But if Katie not playing, But you don't think the Clippers. I just think the dynamic of the Lebron been able to do everything and having a play with the caliber playoff a D and what he can do on both sides of the floor, and how he can get forty a night on anybody. Lebron has never had that. He's won championships with less, so to have that, I don't I don't think anybody's stopping him. So when Lebron was on I have to ask you this because this is I'm being honest, Like, I get the Clippers make me nervous, and you on our show, so don't start asking questions like no, I'm nervous, like I love the Lagers. I agree with what you said, and I would like to see him, But I think the Clippers have to upper hid. I don't know if they have they have the upperhand in the sense of like defense, like I just get nervous, like I'm like, and then I don't well, And of course I don't thinka is one hunter, but that doesn't really matter at this moment because they're doing his low management and I'm thinking, Okay, so Lebron used to be low low managed, or so does A d like as a fan, that's what I'm thinking. I'm like, y'all don't know, Okay, December chill. The best thing for the Legers and the worst thing happened for the Clippers. They beat the Lakers early. The best thing for Lebron was he took that and he got a lot of flat when he didn't beat the when he didn't play as hard as Kauai did that first game, like I took the challenge. He guarded him all that Lebron I didn't do that. So the next day he was getting killed in the media. It was since then he'd been on the triple. He heard heard he was another game. He was on his head. That was that was bad for the league because now he's gonna destroy everybody. And I was I was someone saying he was just feeling out his surroundings. That started effort to say, Okay, let me see what we got with a D. And it took a little bit for a D to get his feet wet. But they're rolling down, you know what I mean that they had a hell of that. The Clippers make me nervous. I don't I Look, I'm gonna say all day the Lakers are gonna be in the finals, but I really want them to manage them. I don't feel like they don't have Lebron's like, I don't believe in little management. I'm like, you don't have to play every game, dog, Like, yeah, save it, save it. This is this, it's too early for all this, Like I get it, but chill out. I can look. I don't know. I think I think that the way that they're handling Kauai makes me a little nervous like I'm thinking, Okay, maybe he's not one hundred, but it's smart, like they don't need to win every game. They're looking at this whole marathon. It's not this little little sprint right here. They got the whole marathon. And then it's really gonna come down to coaching, Like is Vogel coaching or is it? Okay, Okay, that's crazy. You can't get Voge his respecting boys, number one record in the NBA. Yeah, because they got um one coach of the Year over the line of hollers and they got J Kid right there. That's why you think Jed, I just feel like LaMnO and out there like we got But I just know what. I just know what guys like J Kid been, having him on the bench and having line of hones both players both have been had a success in coach. I know what that do. When you have a player on the sideline, that's different. That's definitely if you had Kobe Kobe on the sideline and Vogel, who your player going to talk to during the time out? Damn, so're not gonna be Vocus. So I'm telling you having J Kid on the sideline, I'm telling you up fighting that at all. So you think kind of like us that the conference finals will be Lakers Clippers. Yeah, for sure, I definitely think that. I feel like in the East Bucks, but I don't know, I feel like they have you know, Perkis was on the show the other day and he said something I thought that we don't pay attention to. They kind of have a three. They kind of have a big three with Chris and Bledsoe like in you honest, I feel like I don't necessarily know if they but I mean to me, that's all I see. Celtics look good like, but I'm not believing. I think the Celtic sort of piece away. I like feely feely can figure out what they have. I think losing Jimmy Beller was big, huge, but we'll see, you know what I mean, I still like, you know, embed I don't know, and be got called out by Ship Yeah, so he got motivated, but I just I don't know. I just felt it too mature. I don't think they're there yet maturing. Well. Miami's one piece of way to what they trade? Who do they give away? Who do they have to give away? Do you bring in? What kind of player. Yeah, Miami's good, patro it makes them happen. Okay, Yeah, So I don't know. I think it'll come down to coaching. I think at the end of the day, like I think, no one saying anything about Frank Bogo because there's a winning So if they start losing, he'll probably give Morebody said, what happens when they hit it two or three games Slater we start talking about then we'll say, Okay, he doesn't know what he's doing. But I like everybody said, everybody everyone, No one's giving him any respect at all. No one's giving Vogal any respect. But what about the Pacers team? They didn't he coach them when they were at their best, when it was Joe to see in them. Remember they win anything? No, but they were always in the conference finals like a lot of teams compete. But he was doing well with that team. Like, wasn't that he ant Boy or Roy Hibbert? Like what I mean, what happened to these guys? Like in my mind, I'm like where hibberw was the ship? He didn't play anywhere you go, right right? He was a liking for like five minutes they needed. That's all they needed to where's Roy I don't know where. Who are some of your your favorite young players in the NBA right now? I like Donovan mitchell Um, I like I like John Moran Actually don't know, but he's actually I like his swag, like he plays like he believes. It took Tho so long. I'm talking Alonzo because I was such a die hard you say, a Laker fan. It took him so long to believe, And I'm just like, how do you how do you come out believe it? In others don't Like Zoe didn't have that and I didn'tyone say it might be his dad whatever. I don't know about all that, but I just like it. It's a lot of these intangibles in terms of how they are off the court, like how they handle themselves, how they how they believe, how they come at these these vests, like I don't care, like different walks, like you know what you know what means? That don't mean to other kids, it means something to him. Yeah, I like him. I like, I'm looking. I don't know what's going on with I on I'm waiting to see what he'll be like. That's to me is that that's the big question Mark Wese kids split out of the shoes and everybody waiting to see him play, and his knees hurt, and is he too big? He does he need to lose weight? You can't tell so many questions. I think he needs to come down to to sixty five? Is to eighty five is big, especially for the rigors in in the length of the NBA season and the travel schedule, in the practice. I think we'll see the best Zion it to sixty five. But it'll be interesting once he kind of gets in the rhythm and starts going I like your young to bad team. Yeah, I like game. Yeah, there's a handful. It's you know, we spoke you know, to d Way a while back, and and and and you know, once Lebron leaves, like, I think the NBA is going to be in great hands. You know, what can you do? Yeah? Who's the next Lebron? I don't know if there don't will never be another Bron. But who's the next big star? Katie Janice Luca. Hey, I gotta go with Katie, I was saying before he got hurt, breaking records and ship Yeah, I think so, okay, I think so it's me sacking to see. I don't know, we'll see Superstars And you know the next year we had the Warrior's back in Rath for him. So I don't know. I don't know, we'll see I don't know. Okay, So I have a question. Yeah you go, I had a question. You know I'm gonna ask a question. So why do people think? And I asked you this already? So when people think about you, when they say they see you like, I just don't go. You know what I mean? You say, whatever come to mine? Do people see what I think? I see the sensitivity of who you are, like the nice guy? Do you show that to everybody? You're kind? I think I do. She's about to make against cry right now, I think I do. I mean I tried to. I try to beat me. I want my emotions on my sleeve. So but how you express them as different express them is very different. I mean, everybody don't follow me. So they followed my Instagram, they see a totally different side of me. You know, I listened to gospel every Sunday on my life, you know what I mean? So people might not know that they don't follow me. Um, I'm a very emotional guy. Very emotional, but you would you have to be around me to know that. At work, one time, I think it was Valentine's Day, he brought all the girls a single rose, rainbow roses. Well, no, he was, No, it was you know what if trying to hype that devil. Yes, a little bit of it was a little bit was the player in me. But it was, you know, it was Valentine's Day. I was going to work. And one thing about working at the time, all the women they're treating me. Well, you know, I spoke to everybody and that's just the country boy and me and being raised by a beautiful woman, my mom, I've always had respect. So working there, you don't see that a lot. You don't see people doing stuff like that and respecting women and saying how how you doing. So I made it a point to do that on Valentine's Day and they loved it. No, not only did they love it. First of all, he don't know this before Before he even gave out the roses, the rainbow colored roses, which I thought was so sweet, he walked up to every single girl and gave it to I was like, what kind of sweet little menister? Don't society, society, A little set you still, I like my mouth was open. He was just really sweet. And he's shy too, like he's there's a shy element to you that people, it sounds crazy. Everything I'm saying sounds crazy somebody who don't know you. Right. So, then, but before he gave out the roses, I gotta put all the girls would be like, he's so cute. He's so cute. They like because jealous. You think I'm starting to look good because I've been using this product, you know, don't you don't think I've been I've been had a little glow on me. Man, I've been had a little glow. And they pretty boy at miss but they really they really see it now Anyway, the girls loved him maybe like what what's the situation? I'm like, I don't know my business like, but all the girls loved him, like make up somehow he was really nice all girls because they all loved him makeup. He simply in the make a room talk to the girls and asked them about their day. How they doing this? Because once he opens up, motherfucker talking face on talk your whole goddamn face all the way off the ground. You ain't like oh. I was telling him about this recipe I made the other day. I'm like, I will with you. Being such a big you know, got me blushing. I love you. You blush like legit blush. If he wasn't so dark, I said, your cheeks are a little red. I can't really see them, but I can imagine dark tents like Mahogany dark tent. It's like a little bit of red. Your hands probably fall color. You know, are your hands sweat right now? Before before they was drinking that it was barred coming to little baby job back and the things. That's what your hands? You got jack over your blushing and ship. Would you be in such a prominent voice in the sports world. What is your thoughts on the U n b A and the progress and the growth they're trying to make in the equal pace stuff. I feel like the w BA is kind of suffering from what I was telling you about earlier about women who feel like they can't talk. Are the right, They'll never work again. I feel like it's very I feel like most of the women I speak to off camera want to say more about what's not right. I think if the men who played in the league or men and positions, like you guys start talking about their traveling conditions and how they're being treated so poorly. If that became more of a story than people that have these networks, I eat ESPN, we'll talk about it more like I feel the women don't feel I know for a fact they don't feel respected. I think it's getting better. But you have this one product in the NBA that is booming, right, booming, booming. I don't know what these television contracts are. And you're telling me you can't take that model and somehow make it work for in any capacity more so than what it is working now for the women. You're making dollars minimum, right, you're traveling um in the worst conditions. You are playing some of your your playoff games in high school arenas. It doesn't make any sense to me, And like seriously, and and I don't think a lot of people go to w NBA games, which you've been, and you go, it's the fundamentals, and it's a good vibe. It's the fundamentals. You like, it is, family, is fun, it's everything. I think we'll hurt sim as athleticism. And you don't understand, and you don't appreciate the game for as a purist, you'll you'll overlooking because of that. Yeah, because you feel like you need to have this. I want to hear low the room, make them done higher, whatever you want to say. I just feel as if I feel like it's a great game and they're not publicizing it, well, we buy stuff that we don't even want because of the way it's marketed in everyday life, whether they be closed shoes anything tag in the So how come you can't market this product? There's no way you can figure out to market this product. Just be like or do you not care? Right? It's the people who run it and you have to you gotta puld people accountable. But it's come a long way, but it's been twenties in my year or something like damn got they gotta stuff adding Like I think like even with like the All Star weekend, if they had like the women's have the women integrated some type of way, you know what I mean, to start making people see the game and see the involved like that, and do a little bit with like the shooting competitions. But I think deeper ingrainment in the NBA game to have you know, it could be much more. Have an All Star game that weekends, yes, the same week that before before they play the All Star game, or have their game a game in general that played that weekend. There's a way to do it. You just have to decide if you wanted the money to pay you some money to get behind the scenes of hell Listen, you know our mutual friend Christine Simmons, we've talked about that in so many different ways. It's just you have to want to change it. And I don't necessarily think they want to. It's a lot too. I don't think they social issues and having a platform like Champion causes speak on that. You know, there's there's so much going on into today's society with right and wrong and police brutality and human trafficking and all that kind of stuff. Like because I know all that touch of you're someone who's very aware of the news, speak on that things that registered with me. Um, And it's so funny. I have and they don't have any particular order, probably a little more passionate about others, um, but I I don't like the way that black men are treated like. That's one of my one of my big big issues. I feel like the the Black family is is destroyed in so many different ways, and I feel like they tacked the men and as a result, the women are left to do so many different things. And then when that happens, you break up this culture and you don't know your history, you don't know where you come from. So that's one of my really big issues. And I like to talk about the idea of black love and us taking care of one another in a in a much more village family type way. Like if you look at different cultures, you look at how the Jewish people or the Italians stay together, like you go to Italian like and I'm pretty sure they have their dysfunction as well. But this this connection that we don't have, our lack thereof, is why the women are you know, like me, where I grew up fearless, which is great, but I needed. I think I need a healthy fear of male respect, right of my male my whether be my my mate, my husband, my boss, and air quotes, whatever it is. I think there should be a level of respect there and I don't have that because I didn't have my father growing up, so I'd just be in your face, ready to ready to tell do y heating nothing, you know what I mean, And I don't think yeah, and it's not and it's not a apropriate, but it's a I'm a I'm a creature of habit that the environment the product of my environment. And so the more I get older and the more I realize that that's not necessarily the way to approach life, I understand why I'm doing it. So I'm trying to I'm trying to auto correct. But I also think at the same turn, I think men don't do that for women, especially for Black women. I feel like we're the most unprotected group of people ever and no one is having our back and consistently being criticized for us, you know, behaving the way in which we behave because of the result of our product rights. So this is vicious cycle. So it's one of these things that I try to talk about a lot. I'm really big on us just working as a whole for women, Like I think, I have so many like interpersonal issues that I found just growing up in this world and growing up in this working environment, and they're all about how we interact and how we treat people like I. Ultimately, I would I would love to say that I have great relationships with everybody. To have a good healthy respect for everybody, I don't. But one of the things that I think we really should start valuing, which we don't. It's just our time and our human and human life. Like we don't spend time appreciating the people we are with. So when I'm teasing you about giving the girls flowers and roses, like, I mean that ship like the girls, that's that kind of thing means a lot. You don't know what somebody, Yeah, you don't know what their day is like, you don't know how that touched somebody's heart, where they had a crush on you or not, stack like those things matter. Knowing that somebody sees you and can relate to you and touch you and say I feel your spirit. You matter. So I feel that's kind of where I'm at peace, love and happiness and joy. That's where I'm matterness in this phase of my life and in terms of professionally and issues that matter for me. I want to I want to transition. I want to go to a new level, Like I like working where I work, but it's time for me. I think I'm getting the itch and it's time for me to be in a place in which I can use my voice in a much louder way, right, unapologetically. Well, would something like that for me? That is working more in a personality realm where I could host different shows where I could um talk about what I love, like I love doing this. I know nos as hell and I ask questions, but that's just a natural curiosity. I'm just a business, right, and I want to be able to do more of that. I want to. I definitely want to work in the arena of mental health, Like that's so huge, Like I want to be able to tell those stories and how people and how it's okay to get therapy and we shouldn't have to pay for therapy. Therapy is crazy. There be a million dollars a session. Why am I paying? You know? I want to be able to be on that forefront. I want to be able to advocate for that because I've seen it change lives and I've seen it destroy lives. Right, Like in my family, I don't know how you guys grew up. I'm like going too that. I was like, coming to your therapy, let's talk about some of our issues, what we're dealing with. Should I don't believe in that. Why not? Well that's how they grew up and they don't think it's right. But I want to be able to talk about that on the level. And if you see celebrities doing it and people with influence doing it and people who matter talking about it, then you're like, Okay, it's not It doesn't have that stigmatism to it. It doesn't have that like, oh, I don't do that. If everybody's doing it, right, why not. Do you feel the responsibility of you know, obviously, like you just spoke on your platform and who you are and what you've been able to accomplished. Um, do you feel responsibility of being a mentor? Yeah? Hell yeah, that's honestly. Like I tell these girls, I was like, I know, I'm cute, my new goal hair and legs out. I'm real, I'm real put together, but I'm at the end of the day, like all you see is that part. Like I was like, it's hard work, Like I just didn't show up and put on a little dress and go out here and start talking. All of this is hard work. And so if you're not giving back and you're not explaining that, then you're not doing nothing. I Oh, everything I love. Your job is service. If you are not giving back, you're not worth anything. I swear That's the only reason I say that to everybody, because I'm like, well, why do I have this platform? Why do I have this pocket? Why do I have this little bit of change? Why do I have this What everything I have is not just to keep right, It's not to keep You're supposed to share. You're supposed to give it out like and I'm doing that and the only way that I know how to do it. And and because somebody did it for me. All you need is one Yes, you need one person to believe in. You always say we're not we're not out of supporting each other than what we're doing. And you know we're not doing we waste some time. You know, this is a perfect time for especially us as a race, our race. We've seen the twenty th make more money than we've ever made in this time, so it's even more imperative that we support each other and build each other up along the way. It's really important. What do you think when you hear like a girl like I want to be just like you? What is that when your journey and what it took to get here. What is it? What do you think? I'm like, what what you mean? What was that? Man? I'm thinking about, like, well do you want to be like being upset with some bullshit? Like but when little girls, you know, little girls, if I immediately go to me, did they see what I was doing the other day? Um, I'm such a mess. I think it's super I loved that though, That's what And I'm glad you got to show that here because I've known you for a while and you know just how cool and you don't get that on you know, I can't, given right, I just can't. You know, like you such an elegant hood lady. I'm like, thank you. I take that. Yeah, yeah, because it's funny. They'll be like you seem so I'm like, I get it. I know I'm not, damn it. But I'm humbled by that because I think that, Um, I think that were I knew when I was a little kid. Okay, so you guys can relate to this. When you were a little kid, did you did you feel whatever it was that was special about you or different about you? Whenever there's a moment in our lives and we're just like you're supposed to be doing something special. Well, we've had it. If you haven't had it, I want you guys to really, whoever this is listening to the podcast, I'm watching it. I want you to look for it because you can still have it as an adult. But there's a time when I was a kid and I was like, Okay, that's what I'm supposed to do. Like I'm supposed to touch people, I'm supposed to read people. I mean, I swear to god, I can remember the day. And then I didn't know what I was gonna do with it, but I knew that it was supposed to be bigger than than just me. And you know, it's not an accident that everybody has this platform because you knew the moment. You remember the day. Who's someone you looked up to in this space? You mentioned Oprah? Was she your main focus? Was there anyone in the sports realm that you looked up through? Female? Wise? Yeah? I like, you know this is so weird. Job Like, I'm about to give you guys this thing. I'm like, who was like her? Um? I like Diane Sawyer? M I like Diane Sawyer. And I'm gonna tell you why she was like a beauty queen before she became that journalist type check right, And she was always so beautiful and hell again but always so real and honest and her questions she was just very sincere. She would just ask you a question and she could politely tear you up, get all in your business, but still look at you with such a loving, endearing way. And I was like that ship is great because she genuinely Yeah, it's a gift because she's literally connecting with your soul but telling you you ain't ship if that's the case, right, Like at the same time, it's like but it's like it's a genuine thing. And I just always liked her what I thought was authenticity and um, I never like when I would watch her as a kid, I'm like, she's great. Obviously it was Oprah, but in terms of her style, how she carried herself. I think a lot of women in my business, even before I got to ESPN, I felt like a lot of women thought they had to be dressed like boys, right, like wear suits and yeah, right, I was like, you could do both. You could. It's who says you can't, Like I'm I'm all about it, Like it's not fake that I want to do it all like instant, and you ultimately will have to pay attention to me. Whether you might be looking at whatever, but you're gonna ultimately pay attention to me too. And I think she was to me one of the first real elegant women world put together. Um and once she got past all that, you could listen to this. We've got some quick hitters before you get out of here. Okay, Jackie, want to start it? Top off sneakers of all time? You're you're a low key sneakerhead. I do have a lot of s you know what. I wear A lot of Jordan's, Like I have so many of these, Like I can't even get you get boxes of Jordan's sent to you or how you get on? I do? I do? I do get this. I do get them sent to me. But I I asked you, like sorry, I asked to like people say, hey, carry let me send you something. I'm like, yeah, okay, send me. Say everybody got a hook up? You gotta try out to Samantha Baker, you gotta hook up. Don't get fed? Yeah? Hi? Yeah. Jack has a biging section of our of our show that he gets fed with. Oh, I like those because I wanted a pair of those, So Kobe sent those to you. Head lady gave him to you. I just got hooked up, you know, you know someone that somebody. I'm definitely blessed me and I think and I don't. I've never straight away from Nike, like I wasn't the only thing. I can't give you top five. I once I used to wear Adidas back in the day, like I used to like easies, but I mean that, and I was just real trendy, like everybody was wearing right because everybody thought they was the ones. But you didn't. You didn't wear I've never bought one pair. You never wore one pair. That's because see you did though I was Adidas. It's like the last two years of my crew when bro. Yeah, so I was with Adida since I was like you, they didn't know. They don't understand what being a rider was at the time, so they decided to take my deal. They thought I was just going up through a willing willy niarly now I was going to wrap my homeboys. You know, they took my deal. But shout out to Zack at Adidas. If I need something still, look to take care of you. Yeah, no, yeah, I decide I just only wear ones, and then of course I had low tops. I love them like I bought it. I mean that the special edition ones. Now every every every actress, every celebrity, every every movie start got some version of ones. Have you noticed that? Like? Did you say? I'm like, d how come you? Yeah? I'm like, dang, what's going on? I want one to Secret Society. Just a Nike girl. I don't have anything else. I only wear one. I like, I only wear Jordan's and I think that that's just because they look good on my feet. I don't even have an endorsement. You need to tell him. I tried. What happened? Jack knows some people in Jordan. They took his boxes away, but he still knows some people. I can't help you right now. Why not, Jordan's tell about your boxes? What happened your boxes? What happened? They cut his boxes off? But the guy used to run join at the time. What's kind of weird, dude, And he doesn't he doesn't work done them more. He's the guy that stopped sending me boxes. Now, all the games, we've been trying to get a message back to MJ that Jack needs. Actually shout out to MJ's daughter. She texts me, and I've actually been talking to her. Yes, yes, Marcus, Jimmy Butler plug shout. Marcus Jordan was on one of my other shows I host for Complex. Yeah, he gave me his number. So it's still open up invitation. What are you waiting on? I don't know. I just wanted to tease you with a little bit cool. I'm just glad you got the next question. A dream dinner table where you can soak up as much knowledge as you can give me. The top five people that are a lot you've had at that table with you, Maya Angelou, knos A Rice. This is so because I've been listening to these master classes, um DJ and I don't know him like that Dwayne Johnson, but I would like I would you guys. Yeah, but we don't sit and talk and get real like I want to have some tequila with him and talk about just the movies he's making and how you monster and the biggest start probably biggest star in the world, not the world. I went from playing at Miami to get playing like playing kicked out of CFL. Then I'm gonna be ar wrestled like my family. Then I'm gonna start guest starring in movies, like but just be myself in movies. But then I'm gonna start actually doing movies and be really bad at it and then really just perfect my craft and become a decent actor. And then like shows in every way, every way got under armur line. It's like it sells out more than Tom Brady's Like what and theory? Yeah, like all of that, So I would I want to know, like and he stays up, like how do you do that? He was like, no, it's so neat. Like when when we filmed that show, he would we would wrap at three am, he go work out and then started his second job where he was doing voice over and I was just like what is that? Where does that come from? And he too talked about battling depression like I'm still dealing with it. Like, so he would be there, Um, clearly I have over there, and then I would have my dad and my mom. Wow. Nice, Yeah, I'll be some good food. Top two most memorable interviews so many um or favorite membable or favorite either one for me and here Brother fan Magic came on f T for an hour and some change. First time I ever met him, and that was like a moment like it's magic. That was my favorite player growing up too. I was with you look at me, my whole heart, Grandma, look at me. Now you know y'all know I magic. How cool he is. I remember one day calling his assistant on Christmas Day, like probably like five years ago, and I was like, it's magic around on Christmas Day because it was like a game they always put on Christmas Day. I want him to speak to my grandmother. Do you know what? We gotta talk to my grandmother for five minutes? Do you know she could just she could have died and went to heaven at that moment, the look at her eyes, she was so happy. I've never seen this woman flinch, be nervous. She's so like well put together. She was so nervous, so happy. I was like, I'm outset. That was it. That's how I ever did. So that was one I don't necessarily know if this was a great interview, But do you guys remember when Chad Johnson came out first take, right after he got kicked out a league for allegedly not touching his his his his then wife or ex wife do you remember that. I don't remember the detail um that was. That was one of the most memorable moments because they came at his head and when I tell you, it was like a Spanish inquisition. I felt I felt so bad for him, and then they were like, okay you could and then to be a part of that, to ask all these questions and see him how he I mean, you could cut the tension with a knife. It was like you can't turn away from it because he wasn't talking, but they were. It was just it was crazy. Chad just was not backing down. I was produd of him, but it was the most It was one of those moments that like remember those are like there were so many of these different moments where you have and you sitting and you're watching these people. Are like when t O came on there, he looked like he wants to fight Skip. Like those moments you can't you can't relive those moments, like to be there when they're getting ready to go at each other and commercial break, you're just like ship who can like somebody about to get beat it. I literally felt Tia was about to jump across the table and beat Skip's asked like it was that uncomfortable because up until that moment, TiO hadn't talked to anybody, and skip me to talk so bad about him, remember when he's a cowboy. He was talking so bad about him, and you could, and you know t O was an emotional guy anyway, you could just feel like he was about to jump out of the screen and beat hisself. There was one of those moments. We can curse, we can say whatever. Last question, Yes, if you can have a sentence or a billboard to share with the world, what would your message be? So deep? But nobody need damn what M share with the world. Don't get too high. Don't get too low. That's simple. Don't get too high. I don't get too low. That's the only reason why I think I'm successful. I don't believe all the hype, and I don't believe all the hate right in the mail. Even I like that. I don't believe the height, and I don't believe all because I've never said extreme. It's never that extreme. We appreciate you, appreciate you. Thanked, he smoked. I'll go run and get it right now. That's a rap. Episode twelve with the Lovely Carrie Champion herself, my brother Jack another great show. You can catch us on Showtime Basketball YouTube channel or any platform streaming podcast at all of them. The old US is, we've been building, building, building. When the opportunity do come my way, that's when the magic happens. Going under the Endeling Household was crazy, impression, anxiety. Those are things I had I hatter before. I've just gotten more now. Legalizing sports gambling might just well legalized cocaine and crystal mouth. So many people wanted sunny dead. Question is who got through the first? This is the all word point. It's the parted. Do we help people understand football? Just spoke, go fight Yeah, spole h