Life isn’t fair. Perhaps that is why we love sports. In sports, the aspiration at least, is to even the playing field. But that endeavor in and of itself, poses many challenges. What does the inclusion of transgender athletes mean for sports? For ESPN’s Katie Barnes, a journalist who covers the intersection of gender and athletics, the answers here are never simple. 

Katie joins Jay to discuss the gender politics of sports at all levels of performance, as they break down in their new book, Fair Play: How Sports Shapes The Gender Debates. This conversation distills the complex and often-sensitive questions around transgender competitors, many of whom are kids who simply want to enjoy the sport they love.