Voices of the victims of Sam Bankman-Fried’s alleged crimes have been few and far between during the prosecution’s presentation of its case. On today’s show, Lidia Jean Kott sits down with Jake Thacker, a tech worker from Portland, Oregon who borrowed money to bet big on FTX, only to be left holding the bag. He says he’s now bankrupt and unsure whether he’ll be able to keep his home. 

This conversation was recorded on October 23. 

Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com

To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus.

Voices of the victims of Sam Bankman-Fried’s alleged crimes have been few and far between during the prosecution’s presentation of its case. On today’s show, Lidia Jean Kott sits down with Jake Thacker, a tech worker from Portland, Oregon who borrowed money to bet big on FTX, only to be left holding the bag. He says he’s now bankrupt and unsure whether he’ll be able to keep his home. 
This conversation was recorded on October 23. 
Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting <a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/against-the-rules">atrpodcast.com</a>
To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/against-the-rules-with-michael-lewis-the-trial/id1455379351">Apple Podcasts</a> or at <a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/join-pushkin">Pushkin.fm/plus</a>.

Michael Lewis’s latest book Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State tells the story of federal civil servants who risked — and in most cases, lost — their jobs in the early days of the second Trump administration. In this companion series, we hear about how Lewis reported the book and what kind of government we’re left with after the ravages of DOGE. 

Get Blockers now at blockersbook.com or wherever books are sold.

Journalist and bestselling author Michael Lewis explores the figures in American life who rely on the public's trust, whether in sports, in business, in the courtroom, or on TV. What happens when that trust erodes and we can no longer agree on what's fair and what's not?

Michael Lewis&rsquo;s latest book Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State tells the story of federal civil servants who risked &mdash;&nbsp;and in most cases, lost &mdash; their jobs in the early days of the second Trump administration. In this companion series, we hear about how Lewis reported the book and what kind of government we&rsquo;re left with after the ravages of DOGE.&nbsp;
Get Blockers now at&nbsp;<a href="http://blockersbook.com/">blockersbook.com</a> or wherever books are sold.
<hr>
Journalist and bestselling author Michael Lewis explores the figures in American life who rely on the public's trust, whether in sports, in business, in the courtroom, or on TV. What happens when that trust erodes and we can no longer agree on what's fair and what's not?

Against the Rules: Blockers Companion Podcast

Michael Lewis’s latest book Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State tells the story of federal civil servants who risked — and in most cases, lost — their jobs in the early days of the second Trump administration. In this companion series, we hear about how Lewis reported the book and what kind of government we’re left with after the ravages of DOGE. 

Get Blockers now at blockersbook.com or wherever books are sold.

Journalist and bestselling author Michael Lewis explores the figures in American life who rely on the public's trust, whether in sports, in business, in the courtroom, or on TV. What happens when that trust erodes and we can no longer agree on what's fair and what's not?

 

Michael Lewis&rsquo;s latest book Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State tells the story of federal civil servants who risked &mdash;&nbsp;and in most cases, lost &mdash; their jobs in the early days of the second Trump administration. In this companion series, we hear about how Lewis reported the book and what kind of government we&rsquo;re left with after the ravages of DOGE.&nbsp;
Get Blockers now at&nbsp;<a href="http://blockersbook.com/">blockersbook.com</a> or wherever books are sold.
<hr>
Journalist and bestselling author Michael Lewis explores the figures in American life who rely on the public's trust, whether in sports, in business, in the courtroom, or on TV. What happens when that trust erodes and we can no longer agree on what's fair and what's not?
&nbsp;

Judging Sam: An FTX Victim Speaks Out

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/09971aaa-9003-4362-9a40-b0a500b2ea88/transcript

In this excerpt from the audiobook version of Blockers, Michael Lewis tells the dramatic story of a showdown at the United States Institute of Peace. Although the institute was created by Congress and run as a private corporation, President Trump’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) targeted it for takeover. In the early months of 2025, the institute’s head of security decided to fight back.

You can save 25% on the audiobook when you use the code BLOCKERSBOOK at blockers.fm.

In this excerpt from the audiobook version of Blockers, Michael Lewis tells the dramatic story of a showdown at the United States Institute of Peace. Although the institute was created by Congress and run as a private corporation, President Trump&rsquo;s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) targeted it for takeover. In the early months of 2025, the institute&rsquo;s head of security decided to fight back.
You can save 25% on the audiobook when you use the code BLOCKERSBOOK at&nbsp;<a href="http://blockers.fm/">blockers.fm</a>.

A Bad Week at the US Institute of Peace

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/3c64de35-e8b8-483b-9236-b4f301158975/transcript

Exciting news! I have an all new book coming out on October 6th: BLOCKERS. You can pre-order your copy of the audiobook exclusively at blockers.fm. The hardcover is available at michaellewiswrites.com.

A blocker is the worst thing you could be during President Trump's second term—especially if you worked in the federal government and wanted to keep your job. A blocker was a holdover, an impediment, and, most of all, someone who didn’t belong. BLOCKERS tells the story of six people who believed they had a calling, who were convinced they were doing something the country couldn’t do without, and then discovered they were no longer wanted. One kept Americans’ most sensitive tax data out of the wrong hands and another made sure that politicians and civil servants played by the rules. One figured out how to stop wildfires from destroying suburban neighborhoods, another helped uncover the mysteries of cystic fibrosis.

BLOCKERS is an inside look at the early days of Trump’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) as told by the public servants it targeted and asks the question: If public servants can’t survive in government today, then what does that say about our country?

Pre-order your copy of the audiobook exclusively at blockers.fm. We'll send you a code for 25% off all Pushkin titles, including mine like Liar’s Poker and The Big Short, through the end of the year. 

Exciting news! I have an all new book coming out on October 6th: BLOCKERS. You can pre-order your copy of the audiobook exclusively at&nbsp;<a href="http://blockers.fm/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://blockers.fm/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1780604741523000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2J4r3Nk0NlFAfzLqgafUBU">blockers.fm</a>. The hardcover is available at&nbsp;<a href="http://michaellewiswrites.com/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://michaellewiswrites.com/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1780604741523000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2Qc9ucG5NSeLLTcvo1D4_-">michaellewiswrites.com</a>.
A blocker is the worst thing you could be during President Trump's second term&mdash;especially if you worked in the federal government and wanted to keep your job. A blocker was a holdover, an impediment, and, most of all, someone who didn&rsquo;t belong. BLOCKERS tells the story of six people who believed they had a calling, who were convinced they were doing something the country couldn&rsquo;t do without, and then discovered they were no longer wanted. One kept Americans&rsquo; most sensitive tax data out of the wrong hands and another made sure that politicians and civil servants played by the rules. One figured out how to stop wildfires from destroying suburban neighborhoods, another helped uncover the mysteries of cystic fibrosis.
BLOCKERS is an inside look at the early days of Trump&rsquo;s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) as told by the public servants it targeted and asks the question: If public servants can&rsquo;t survive in government today, then what does that say about our country?
Pre-order your copy of the audiobook exclusively at <a href="http://blockers.fm/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://blockers.fm/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1780604741523000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2J4r3Nk0NlFAfzLqgafUBU">blockers.fm</a>. We'll send you a code for 25% off all Pushkin titles, including mine like Liar&rsquo;s Poker and The Big Short, through the end of the year.&nbsp;

Blockers: A New Audiobook from Michael Lewis 

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/f38a23ff-c87f-4eb2-ad92-b45e015976ec/transcript

Recently, Michael Lewis spoke with Nicolle Wallace, host of the podcast The Best People, at Symphony Space in New York. They discussed what it was like re-visiting the Big Short 15 years on. And we hear the actor Zach Grenier dramatize a portion of The Big Short.

Order The Big Short audiobook, now narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks.

Recently, Michael Lewis spoke with Nicolle Wallace, host of the podcast&nbsp;<a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/49PEWS3aD9f6M2urhGdf6d">The Best People</a>, at Symphony Space in New York. They discussed what it was like re-visiting the Big Short 15 years on. And we hear the actor Zach Grenier dramatize a portion of The Big Short.
Order The Big Short audiobook, now narrated by Michael Lewis, on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Big-Short-Inside-the-Doomsday-Machine-Audiobook/B0FJTH21JS?qid=1758041668&amp;sr=1-1&amp;ref_pageloadid=not_applicable&amp;pf_rd_p=83218cca-c308-412f-bfcf-90198b687a2f&amp;pf_rd_r=W8EJYNFBTNKENZERAF3F&amp;plink=MffxLjWat1SZzQ9C&amp;pageLoadId=8twGCD6I2yKFLwtS&amp;creativeId=0d6f6720-f41c-457e-a42b-8c8dceb62f2c&amp;ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1">Audible</a>, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/4jMnkmyFmZT7j7R72nlNXz?si=b627a059b2e644cc">Spotify</a>, <a href="http://pushkin.fm/bigshort">pushkin.fm/bigshort</a> or wherever you get audiobooks.

Live with Nicolle Wallace 

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/1d7f280a-9675-4a5d-aef3-b3b001645c45/transcript

Judging Sam: An FTX Victim Speaks Out

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