Hey, it's Kia here. We've discussed how to keep your credit healthy on the podcast, but today let's dive a little bit deeper on debt. I want to find out what you can do to manage it, strategies to reduce debt, and how we can lessen the shame around it. Welcome to another episode of A Little Bit Richer, brought to you by my friends at Legal & General. Here to help us tread the water is a friend of the show, Andy Webb, the man behind the award- winning Be Clever With Your Cash blog and host of the Cash Chats podcast. Welcome back.

Hey, it's Kia here. We've discussed how to keep your credit healthy on the podcast, but today let's dive a little bit deeper on debt. I want to find out what you can do to manage it, strategies to reduce debt, and how we can lessen the shame around it. Welcome to another episode of A Little Bit Richer, brought to you by my friends at Legal & General. Here to help us tread the water is a friend of the show, Andy Webb, the man behind the award- winning Be Clever With Your Cash blog and host of the Cash Chats podcast. Welcome back.

Hey Kia.

Hey Kia.

So Andy, most of us have some debt and this could take a number of forms. It could be credit cards, personal car loans, overdrafts, mortgages, owing friends and family members. I could go on forever. So let's start with a common one. It's very easy to rack up debts on credit cards. So can you give us some tips to help?

So Andy, most of us have some debt and this could take a number of forms. It could be credit cards, personal car loans, overdrafts, mortgages, owing friends and family members. I could go on forever. So let's start with a common one. It's very easy to rack up debts on credit cards. So can you give us some tips to help?

Yeah, I think with credit cards it's easy to assume that people know how they work, right? But when you are young, you're getting a credit card for the first time, you've just got this ability to spend money. So that's often where a lot of this kind of problems start. And it's only when you really fully understand it, you go, " Oh great. Actually I wish I hadn't done that when I was younger. I hadn't spent so much money." So the important things to remember here are do try and only use that credit card for your everyday spending, the things you can spend money on anyway. Don't get tempted to buy that extra thing. " Oh, I'll deal with it later on. I sort it out later," because if you don't sort it out when that statement comes through, then you're going to get charged interest and there might be fees as well if you miss payments, and that's where those debts start to rack up because not only are you getting charged interest on your purchase, then the next month if you don't clear it again, you'll get interest on that purchase, any new spending and interest on the interest. So it all really, really can add up. So try to avoid doing that. There is a simple thing you can do to make sure you don't forget to spend it and you do clear that full amount, and that's just setting up a direct debit from your current account to the credit card company, ideally for that full amount, and that means that it'll be cleared. But there is also a risk that comes with this a little bit and it's double spending. I don't know if you've had this before where so you've got something on a credit card, you know it's on there, but when you look at your current account balance, you see there's all this cash there and you don't really account for the fact that it has already been spent. So you spend it on other stuff and then the bill comes through, money's not there.

Yeah, I think with credit cards it's easy to assume that people know how they work, right? But when you are young, you're getting a credit card for the first time, you've just got this ability to spend money. So that's often where a lot of this kind of problems start. And it's only when you really fully understand it, you go, " Oh great. Actually I wish I hadn't done that when I was younger. I hadn't spent so much money." So the important things to remember here are do try and only use that credit card for your everyday spending, the things you can spend money on anyway. Don't get tempted to buy that extra thing. " Oh, I'll deal with it later on. I sort it out later," because if you don't sort it out when that statement comes through, then you're going to get charged interest and there might be fees as well if you miss payments, and that's where those debts start to rack up because not only are you getting charged interest on your purchase, then the next month if you don't clear it again, you'll get interest on that purchase, any new spending and interest on the interest. So it all really, really can add up. So try to avoid doing that. There is a simple thing you can do to make sure you don't forget to spend it and you do clear that full amount, and that's just setting up a direct debit from your current account to the credit card company, ideally for that full amount, and that means that it'll be cleared. But there is also a risk that comes with this a little bit and it's double spending. I don't know if you've had this before where so you've got something on a credit card, you know it's on there, but when you look at your current account balance, you see there's all this cash there and you don't really account for the fact that it has already been spent. So you spend it on other stuff and then the bill comes through, money's not there.

Yes, absolutely.

Yes, absolutely.

So that's often where the problems start. So a little hack that I like to suggest to people is every time you spend on the credit card, or as soon as, maybe you might want to do it every week or something, but you transfer the money out of that current account into if you've got an account from Starling or Monzo, they have these pots and spaces, or maybe it can be a completely separate current account. You transfer the money over there so it's ring- fenced. You know when that bill comes through, you absolutely can afford it. And then you really understand actually what the balance on your current account is, that is actually what you've got. So those kind of things can help you stop it getting unmanageable and keeping on top of it.

So that's often where the problems start. So a little hack that I like to suggest to people is every time you spend on the credit card, or as soon as, maybe you might want to do it every week or something, but you transfer the money out of that current account into if you've got an account from Starling or Monzo, they have these pots and spaces, or maybe it can be a completely separate current account. You transfer the money over there so it's ring- fenced. You know when that bill comes through, you absolutely can afford it. And then you really understand actually what the balance on your current account is, that is actually what you've got. So those kind of things can help you stop it getting unmanageable and keeping on top of it.

I like the fact that you said just use it for everyday spending because it reminds me of when I got my first ever credit card at 20. Arguably I knew better, didn't do better, and I applied for two credit cards, Andy, £ 1, 000 limit each. Can you imagine that? And even though I knew don't go crazy, it's not your money, you can guess what I did. I went, I racked up that money and I spent the whole 2000 on ... I couldn't even tell you what I spent it on. I don't have proof of what I spent it on. I don't have anything to show for it. But that was a very expensive lesson on how to actually use credit cards properly. So it's having a plan for paying it back. It is understanding the compounding of interest that can happen so you end up paying more than what you initially borrowed. So I'm glad that you covered that. But I also want to touch on another line of credit that is getting very popular now and that's Buy Now, Pay Later. I think that is something that's boomed in the last couple of years and is very much so accessible, and I see a lot of young people especially leaning into that. So can you give us a bit more insight into Buy Now, Pay Later as well?

I like the fact that you said just use it for everyday spending because it reminds me of when I got my first ever credit card at 20. Arguably I knew better, didn't do better, and I applied for two credit cards, Andy, £ 1, 000 limit each. Can you imagine that? And even though I knew don't go crazy, it's not your money, you can guess what I did. I went, I racked up that money and I spent the whole 2000 on ... I couldn't even tell you what I spent it on. I don't have proof of what I spent it on. I don't have anything to show for it. But that was a very expensive lesson on how to actually use credit cards properly. So it's having a plan for paying it back. It is understanding the compounding of interest that can happen so you end up paying more than what you initially borrowed. So I'm glad that you covered that. But I also want to touch on another line of credit that is getting very popular now and that's Buy Now, Pay Later. I think that is something that's boomed in the last couple of years and is very much so accessible, and I see a lot of young people especially leaning into that. So can you give us a bit more insight into Buy Now, Pay Later as well?

Yeah, I mean it's huge, isn't it? And every time you go to a checkout it's there and sometimes they push you towards it a little bit, use this one over some of the other options. And a lot of the big companies now, there's cards. So you can Buy Now, Pay Later everything. It doesn't just have to be online. And for those, I mean everyone knows this, but this is where you split your payment into. It varies by provider and a lot of the time the shorter ones are interest free, which is no bad thing if you need to spread the cost of something out of a short space of time, because it helps you with those bigger expenses. But a lot of the time when they're longer than say three months, then interest gets charged on that. Not everyone's always aware of that. But I think the big danger with Buy Now, Pay Later is getting carried away, a bit like you talked about just now with those credit cards, originally you're spending here, you're spending there. One thing on Buy Now, Pay Later, it doesn't matter because I get paid in two weeks time and then I have enough to cover it. But then you put something else on Buy Now, Pay Later and something else on Buy Now, Pay Later. And you end up with this cycle of stuff that next time you want to buy something, you don't have the money to pay for it because you're still paying off the stuff on Buy Now, Pay Later from the previous month and you get caught in this kind of circle. And if your situation changes, you lose your job maybe potentially something like that or a big emergency kind of cost comes along so you don't have the cash even to cover the ones you thought you could cover, well you're committed to it and you're committed to 10, 20 of these. That's how prevalent they are, and you can get on anything. So again, it's coming back to what we said on credit cards, and this is true really for any kind of credit, it's only using it for stuff that you know if you can't afford it right now, you know that when you get paid next that you will have the money to cover that and it is for stuff that you need. It's not just luxuries and stuff. If you want a luxury, save up for it is the best way of doing it. I know in practice that doesn't always work but it's something to try and aim for at least.

Yeah, I mean it's huge, isn't it? And every time you go to a checkout it's there and sometimes they push you towards it a little bit, use this one over some of the other options. And a lot of the big companies now, there's cards. So you can Buy Now, Pay Later everything. It doesn't just have to be online. And for those, I mean everyone knows this, but this is where you split your payment into. It varies by provider and a lot of the time the shorter ones are interest free, which is no bad thing if you need to spread the cost of something out of a short space of time, because it helps you with those bigger expenses. But a lot of the time when they're longer than say three months, then interest gets charged on that. Not everyone's always aware of that. But I think the big danger with Buy Now, Pay Later is getting carried away, a bit like you talked about just now with those credit cards, originally you're spending here, you're spending there. One thing on Buy Now, Pay Later, it doesn't matter because I get paid in two weeks time and then I have enough to cover it. But then you put something else on Buy Now, Pay Later and something else on Buy Now, Pay Later. And you end up with this cycle of stuff that next time you want to buy something, you don't have the money to pay for it because you're still paying off the stuff on Buy Now, Pay Later from the previous month and you get caught in this kind of circle. And if your situation changes, you lose your job maybe potentially something like that or a big emergency kind of cost comes along so you don't have the cash even to cover the ones you thought you could cover, well you're committed to it and you're committed to 10, 20 of these. That's how prevalent they are, and you can get on anything. So again, it's coming back to what we said on credit cards, and this is true really for any kind of credit, it's only using it for stuff that you know if you can't afford it right now, you know that when you get paid next that you will have the money to cover that and it is for stuff that you need. It's not just luxuries and stuff. If you want a luxury, save up for it is the best way of doing it. I know in practice that doesn't always work but it's something to try and aim for at least.

Absolutely. And I want to touch on something you just mentioned there, and it's talking about uncontrollable debt or out of control debt. So how would you define a debt that is unmanageable or out of control?

Absolutely. And I want to touch on something you just mentioned there, and it's talking about uncontrollable debt or out of control debt. So how would you define a debt that is unmanageable or out of control?

Yeah. I think there are a few kind of warning signs out there that people should be keeping an eye for. And this is if you are regularly late with your bills, not because of mismanagement and forgetting to do it. It's because you don't have the money coming through until. I need to waiting up a couple of weeks, then I can pay it. Or the next stage of that is you're having to borrow money to cover other already borrowed money, so you get new debt to cover debt. Again, they're all kind of sign of things that, yes, you might be able to fix it just by changing how you budget, but it might be a sign of like these are going to get out of control. So they're kind of important things to look for there. Also things like paying for essentials with any kind of borrowing. So whether that is your supermarket shopping on a credit card or even Buy Now, Pay Later, you can get your groceries on Buy Now, Pay Later if that is something which is a regular occurrence. And the reason for that is because your other debts are eating up all your money. Again, that's a sign, look, you need to do something about those other debts if you aren't already. And there's also not just money aspects you need to be aware of that debts could be a problem. There's a psychological aspect as well. If you are losing sleep because you're worried about the debts, if you are avoiding opening up the post or the email or whatever it might be, because you know what's in there isn't good, then again that's a sign that you need to do something because that's going to have an impact on your mental health.

Yeah. I think there are a few kind of warning signs out there that people should be keeping an eye for. And this is if you are regularly late with your bills, not because of mismanagement and forgetting to do it. It's because you don't have the money coming through until. I need to waiting up a couple of weeks, then I can pay it. Or the next stage of that is you're having to borrow money to cover other already borrowed money, so you get new debt to cover debt. Again, they're all kind of sign of things that, yes, you might be able to fix it just by changing how you budget, but it might be a sign of like these are going to get out of control. So they're kind of important things to look for there. Also things like paying for essentials with any kind of borrowing. So whether that is your supermarket shopping on a credit card or even Buy Now, Pay Later, you can get your groceries on Buy Now, Pay Later if that is something which is a regular occurrence. And the reason for that is because your other debts are eating up all your money. Again, that's a sign, look, you need to do something about those other debts if you aren't already. And there's also not just money aspects you need to be aware of that debts could be a problem. There's a psychological aspect as well. If you are losing sleep because you're worried about the debts, if you are avoiding opening up the post or the email or whatever it might be, because you know what's in there isn't good, then again that's a sign that you need to do something because that's going to have an impact on your mental health.

Absolutely. For anyone who has debt and they feel like it's starting to become a problem, where should they start? Because I know some people might have, I might have two credit cards, I might have an overdraft, I might have a loan. And it just feels like they are almost drowning in their debts. So where should they start and is there a way of prioritizing debts? Is there one that they should be focusing over another? What does that look like?

Absolutely. For anyone who has debt and they feel like it's starting to become a problem, where should they start? Because I know some people might have, I might have two credit cards, I might have an overdraft, I might have a loan. And it just feels like they are almost drowning in their debts. So where should they start and is there a way of prioritizing debts? Is there one that they should be focusing over another? What does that look like?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean there's a few things here. So first of all there's the difference between good debt and bad debt. And it sounds weird to say there's good debt, right? But without credit, without borrowing, then who's going to buy a house?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean there's a few things here. So first of all there's the difference between good debt and bad debt. And it sounds weird to say there's good debt, right? But without credit, without borrowing, then who's going to buy a house?

It's true.

It's true.

Right? Some people, there could be some people out there, but most of us, if we want a house, we need a mortgage which is debt, but that's good debt. But you could say the same about if you need a car to get to work and you need to have a car on finance, then again that can be seen as a good debt in that sense because by having that debt you are able to earn money.

Right? Some people, there could be some people out there, but most of us, if we want a house, we need a mortgage which is debt, but that's good debt. But you could say the same about if you need a car to get to work and you need to have a car on finance, then again that can be seen as a good debt in that sense because by having that debt you are able to earn money.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Careful not to get upsold.

Careful not to get upsold.

Yes.

Yes.

And add the alloys and all the extra bits like that, but again that kind of thing can be a good debt. And then within the rest of the debts as well you're looking at, they're not all equal. You might find some are scarier. You might get some scarier letters from the people saying you owe us this amount of money and things, but ultimately there are some which if you don't act on them, their consequences could be pretty dramatic. And these are known as priority debts. There are a few of them, but the key ones here are your mortgage or your rent. So if you don't pay your mortgage, you don't pay your rent, ultimately you could lose your home, you could be out in the streets. So you have to make sure that is covered before a credit card, before a loan, anything like that. Your gas and electricity, you could be cut off if you don't pay that. So again, you need to make sure, even if it's not making their payment every single month, it's at least having a conversation with them because they might be able to help you with other repayments, but again, you can't just ignore that because the consequences, you could absolutely argue now that mobile and broadband are a priority debts because how many of us are working at home, right?

And add the alloys and all the extra bits like that, but again that kind of thing can be a good debt. And then within the rest of the debts as well you're looking at, they're not all equal. You might find some are scarier. You might get some scarier letters from the people saying you owe us this amount of money and things, but ultimately there are some which if you don't act on them, their consequences could be pretty dramatic. And these are known as priority debts. There are a few of them, but the key ones here are your mortgage or your rent. So if you don't pay your mortgage, you don't pay your rent, ultimately you could lose your home, you could be out in the streets. So you have to make sure that is covered before a credit card, before a loan, anything like that. Your gas and electricity, you could be cut off if you don't pay that. So again, you need to make sure, even if it's not making their payment every single month, it's at least having a conversation with them because they might be able to help you with other repayments, but again, you can't just ignore that because the consequences, you could absolutely argue now that mobile and broadband are a priority debts because how many of us are working at home, right?

Exactly.

Exactly.

You lose your internet, you can't work. Again, you can lose your job if you can't do that. So again, you want to make sure that these things are covered. And there are others, but a couple of important ones to mention here are council tax and TV license. These ones might not feel so important, but if you don't pay them and you haven't spoken to the council about the situation, then you could be taken to court. And then you get a fine. Now if you can't pay your council tax bill because you haven't got any money, how are you going to pay the fine?

You lose your internet, you can't work. Again, you can lose your job if you can't do that. So again, you want to make sure that these things are covered. And there are others, but a couple of important ones to mention here are council tax and TV license. These ones might not feel so important, but if you don't pay them and you haven't spoken to the council about the situation, then you could be taken to court. And then you get a fine. Now if you can't pay your council tax bill because you haven't got any money, how are you going to pay the fine?

Exactly.

Exactly.

And ultimately the consequence down the line is you could go to jail for that. So obviously that's a priority again with the others. So they're the ones to really focus on first of all before the other debts. And the other ones, you can have conversations with those creditors, creditors basically with people that you owe money to, and they might come up with a plan or some kind of way of you kind of like, " Okay, look, we'll give you a breathing space maybe," which is where you have a space of time where no interest is added on, or you might be able to just pay the minimum on them. I guess it can be quite expensive and that can be quite scary because it's getting more and more expensive. They're the ones with a high interest. But that's the worst that's going to happen. Right? At least you'll still have a warm home if you focus on the others.

And ultimately the consequence down the line is you could go to jail for that. So obviously that's a priority again with the others. So they're the ones to really focus on first of all before the other debts. And the other ones, you can have conversations with those creditors, creditors basically with people that you owe money to, and they might come up with a plan or some kind of way of you kind of like, " Okay, look, we'll give you a breathing space maybe," which is where you have a space of time where no interest is added on, or you might be able to just pay the minimum on them. I guess it can be quite expensive and that can be quite scary because it's getting more and more expensive. They're the ones with a high interest. But that's the worst that's going to happen. Right? At least you'll still have a warm home if you focus on the others.

Yes. I think the thing I love most about what you've said there is just having that conversation. I think it can get very overwhelming very quickly if you have a lot of debts. And like you said, those letters when they come through the door, it can feel like, " Oh my gosh, everything's falling on top of me." But if you are struggling and you haven't told your creditors, they're not going to know, they're not mind readers. They can't just say, " Oh this person's struggling, I'm going to put them on payment plan," if you haven't asked for that. So it is making that priority, which I really love that you touched on. When debt becomes unmanageable, what are some strategies that you'd recommend to clear debt?

Yes. I think the thing I love most about what you've said there is just having that conversation. I think it can get very overwhelming very quickly if you have a lot of debts. And like you said, those letters when they come through the door, it can feel like, " Oh my gosh, everything's falling on top of me." But if you are struggling and you haven't told your creditors, they're not going to know, they're not mind readers. They can't just say, " Oh this person's struggling, I'm going to put them on payment plan," if you haven't asked for that. So it is making that priority, which I really love that you touched on. When debt becomes unmanageable, what are some strategies that you'd recommend to clear debt?

First of all, have you got any savings? Because this is the kind of thing, a weird thing. If I've got debt, why would I have savings? But it's actually quite common that people build up an emergency fund because they feel comfortable having that pot of cash there if an emergency happens. But the problem is, if you're getting any interest on that savings account, the rate is going to be way, way, way lower than what you be paying on those debts. So you're much better off using those savings to wipe out as much of those debts as you possibly can. If an emergency comes along later on and that's a big if, but if it does, you might have to borrow it for that. But we can deal with that later on, and it's not going to be any more expensive of what you're paying right now. So that's the first thing to do. I mean obvious things about if you haven't already, just trying to find that budgeting, that extra bit of money that you've got anywhere that can go towards those debts rather than other things or potentially trying to make a bit more cash. It's extra shifts, second job, selling things, anything to get some more money in that you can do. I mean that's all quite obvious stuff but it's worth just mentioning it again. You can also try getting as much of those debts to 0% as you can. Credit cards are the big one here, 0% finance, but there are also 0% overdrafts. That just means that you aren't getting charged any interest on that debt or at least some of that debt, which means you can put more money into clearing down faster. Even looking at getting a lower APR, which is like the interest rates potentially a better way of reducing the rates not to zero, but at least it's going to be lower cost. But do look into that, particularly with things like consolidation loans, they're not always great. So just research those a little bit. Let's assume you've done all of that but you've still got some debts left over, multiple debts. There are a couple of strategies that are pretty popular that are worth thinking about and they've got weird names. So there's avalanche and there's snowballing. So avalanching is technically, mathematically is the best approach to go for because it means ultimately you are going to pay less interest, it's going to cost you less money. And this is where you target as much of your money as you possibly can on the most expensive debt, the one that has the highest rate of interest and all the others, you just go down to the minimum. And the idea is you clear that one as fast as you can and then move to the next one with the next highest rate of interest. Okay, so mathematically you do that, you'll be charged as interest. But what a lot of people find more motivating is snowballing, and this is where you focus on the smallest debt first of all because that's more achievable, right?

First of all, have you got any savings? Because this is the kind of thing, a weird thing. If I've got debt, why would I have savings? But it's actually quite common that people build up an emergency fund because they feel comfortable having that pot of cash there if an emergency happens. But the problem is, if you're getting any interest on that savings account, the rate is going to be way, way, way lower than what you be paying on those debts. So you're much better off using those savings to wipe out as much of those debts as you possibly can. If an emergency comes along later on and that's a big if, but if it does, you might have to borrow it for that. But we can deal with that later on, and it's not going to be any more expensive of what you're paying right now. So that's the first thing to do. I mean obvious things about if you haven't already, just trying to find that budgeting, that extra bit of money that you've got anywhere that can go towards those debts rather than other things or potentially trying to make a bit more cash. It's extra shifts, second job, selling things, anything to get some more money in that you can do. I mean that's all quite obvious stuff but it's worth just mentioning it again. You can also try getting as much of those debts to 0% as you can. Credit cards are the big one here, 0% finance, but there are also 0% overdrafts. That just means that you aren't getting charged any interest on that debt or at least some of that debt, which means you can put more money into clearing down faster. Even looking at getting a lower APR, which is like the interest rates potentially a better way of reducing the rates not to zero, but at least it's going to be lower cost. But do look into that, particularly with things like consolidation loans, they're not always great. So just research those a little bit. Let's assume you've done all of that but you've still got some debts left over, multiple debts. There are a couple of strategies that are pretty popular that are worth thinking about and they've got weird names. So there's avalanche and there's snowballing. So avalanching is technically, mathematically is the best approach to go for because it means ultimately you are going to pay less interest, it's going to cost you less money. And this is where you target as much of your money as you possibly can on the most expensive debt, the one that has the highest rate of interest and all the others, you just go down to the minimum. And the idea is you clear that one as fast as you can and then move to the next one with the next highest rate of interest. Okay, so mathematically you do that, you'll be charged as interest. But what a lot of people find more motivating is snowballing, and this is where you focus on the smallest debt first of all because that's more achievable, right?

Mm- hmm.

Mm- hmm.

So you've got six debts say. You get rid of one, then you've only got five. And that's for a lot of people that makes them think, " Right-

So you've got six debts say. You get rid of one, then you've only got five. And that's for a lot of people that makes them think, " Right-

Keeps you motivation to keep going.

Keeps you motivation to keep going.

Yeah. And it's called snowballing because basically you've got rid of one and the next time you move on, the next one's big one, and end up with just basically one debt at the end and hopefully you get rid of that and then you're debt free. So they're both two things to consider if you're doing this yourself.

Yeah. And it's called snowballing because basically you've got rid of one and the next time you move on, the next one's big one, and end up with just basically one debt at the end and hopefully you get rid of that and then you're debt free. So they're both two things to consider if you're doing this yourself.

So if someone is struggling, where can they go and what can they do?

So if someone is struggling, where can they go and what can they do?

Okay. So if you are struggling and you don't think you can do this on your own, because a lot of this stuff might come down to some intense budgeting. We're just looking about where your money could be better spent. I'm sure a lot of people in this situation, they've already done that, but it's worth having a look again. Then there are some places you can go to who will either guide you through that or take you through some of the next steps. And we won't go into detail on the next steps here because there's too much to talk about, but there's things like debt relief orders, potentially bankruptcy, IVOs, which is individual voluntary agreement, these kind of things. They can take you through them and help you know what's going to be the best for you. Now it's very easy to think, " I'll just go on google," right?

Okay. So if you are struggling and you don't think you can do this on your own, because a lot of this stuff might come down to some intense budgeting. We're just looking about where your money could be better spent. I'm sure a lot of people in this situation, they've already done that, but it's worth having a look again. Then there are some places you can go to who will either guide you through that or take you through some of the next steps. And we won't go into detail on the next steps here because there's too much to talk about, but there's things like debt relief orders, potentially bankruptcy, IVOs, which is individual voluntary agreement, these kind of things. They can take you through them and help you know what's going to be the best for you. Now it's very easy to think, " I'll just go on google," right?

Mm- hmm.

Mm- hmm.

" I'll type in debt support or debt help." And that is one of the worst things you can do because the people right at the top, they've paid for their result to be the top of the results, and often they're really cheeky and they'll have their names really similar to some of the good guys, which we'll come to in a minute. But what they're going to do, these companies, is they are doing this for profit. And I'm sure not all of them, but a lot of them will steer you towards a solution which makes them money, not necessarily what's best for you. So don't do that. Instead, I would go to Money Helper, which is the government's kind of finance website. And they've got a debt location tool they call it, right? Snappily title, but anyway, that's what it's called. And you put your postcode in and they will come up with a list of either face- to- face place if you want to go and chat to someone face- to- face or if you want to get on the phone or do a web chat, a list of people you can talk to where it's free, independent and impartial advice. So they won't judge you, they'll just take you through the steps. Some of the big names there, Citizens Advice, National Debt Line, Step Change, Christians Against Poverty, there are a number out there who will help you, but I would go to that Money Helper website first of all, and they will direct you into the places for more advanced help if you feel you need it.

" I'll type in debt support or debt help." And that is one of the worst things you can do because the people right at the top, they've paid for their result to be the top of the results, and often they're really cheeky and they'll have their names really similar to some of the good guys, which we'll come to in a minute. But what they're going to do, these companies, is they are doing this for profit. And I'm sure not all of them, but a lot of them will steer you towards a solution which makes them money, not necessarily what's best for you. So don't do that. Instead, I would go to Money Helper, which is the government's kind of finance website. And they've got a debt location tool they call it, right? Snappily title, but anyway, that's what it's called. And you put your postcode in and they will come up with a list of either face- to- face place if you want to go and chat to someone face- to- face or if you want to get on the phone or do a web chat, a list of people you can talk to where it's free, independent and impartial advice. So they won't judge you, they'll just take you through the steps. Some of the big names there, Citizens Advice, National Debt Line, Step Change, Christians Against Poverty, there are a number out there who will help you, but I would go to that Money Helper website first of all, and they will direct you into the places for more advanced help if you feel you need it.

Absolutely, and I'm glad you said that because I've seen, especially on social media, I've seen a lot of ads where they say, " Come and we can help you resolve all your debts." So it is having your wits about you and make sure you go into the right places. But you've shared where people can go. However, we know, you and I know, we do this as our jobs, that money is a taboo and debt even more so, is something that people really do feel ashamed about. So what can people do? Do you have some suggestions to make it easier for yourself or someone who has a friend or family member who is struggling to open that communication around debt?

Absolutely, and I'm glad you said that because I've seen, especially on social media, I've seen a lot of ads where they say, " Come and we can help you resolve all your debts." So it is having your wits about you and make sure you go into the right places. But you've shared where people can go. However, we know, you and I know, we do this as our jobs, that money is a taboo and debt even more so, is something that people really do feel ashamed about. So what can people do? Do you have some suggestions to make it easier for yourself or someone who has a friend or family member who is struggling to open that communication around debt?

Yeah, it's really hard, isn't it? Like you said, money is taboo and often people won't talk about any of it, but particularly when it comes to debt, that kind of element of shame can come into play. I think just sitting there on your own suffering in silence is not going to help you. So really if you can, finding that trusted friend or family member who you feel will let you talk about it. I'm like this often. Someone comes to me a problem, I'll try and help them and things like that. If that doesn't work for you, then they just need to talk about it. Because sometimes this is about just talking about it, getting it out in the open. Or maybe you have got that person who you know is pretty good on these things and they can give you the more practical tips as well, but find the person that works for you just so it's out there and you start to talk about it. And I guess I wouldn't say owning it isn't quite right, but it just stops becoming this thing you're trying to get rid of and hide away you from. It's something that you can actually, right, " I need to do something about this, I need to take some action."

Yeah, it's really hard, isn't it? Like you said, money is taboo and often people won't talk about any of it, but particularly when it comes to debt, that kind of element of shame can come into play. I think just sitting there on your own suffering in silence is not going to help you. So really if you can, finding that trusted friend or family member who you feel will let you talk about it. I'm like this often. Someone comes to me a problem, I'll try and help them and things like that. If that doesn't work for you, then they just need to talk about it. Because sometimes this is about just talking about it, getting it out in the open. Or maybe you have got that person who you know is pretty good on these things and they can give you the more practical tips as well, but find the person that works for you just so it's out there and you start to talk about it. And I guess I wouldn't say owning it isn't quite right, but it just stops becoming this thing you're trying to get rid of and hide away you from. It's something that you can actually, right, " I need to do something about this, I need to take some action."

I agree with that, finding someone. And sometimes not everyone wants solutions. So many people just want to talk and that's absolutely fine. So Andy, before we wrap up here, what are your top three tips help our listeners manage their debts?

I agree with that, finding someone. And sometimes not everyone wants solutions. So many people just want to talk and that's absolutely fine. So Andy, before we wrap up here, what are your top three tips help our listeners manage their debts?

First of all, if you have got a number of debts, it's about prioritizing them. Find out which ones you really need to focus on without forgetting the others, but just making sure that you've got the solutions in place that those big ones don't get forgotten. Then I would look about motivation. What is the one that's going to kind of, the way that's going to really make sure you can take action on this. Because there are different approaches and everyone's going to work a little bit differently. It's not going to be easy, but you want to find the ways that you can see success, you can see you're getting through it. But ultimately if this isn't helping and you don't feel you can do this on your own, it's getting help. Talk to that friend, that family member, talk to those free, independent and impartial debt advice charities and they're the ones who kind of all together that hopefully sees you through all this. And then we're talking about building wealth once you've got rid of the debts.

First of all, if you have got a number of debts, it's about prioritizing them. Find out which ones you really need to focus on without forgetting the others, but just making sure that you've got the solutions in place that those big ones don't get forgotten. Then I would look about motivation. What is the one that's going to kind of, the way that's going to really make sure you can take action on this. Because there are different approaches and everyone's going to work a little bit differently. It's not going to be easy, but you want to find the ways that you can see success, you can see you're getting through it. But ultimately if this isn't helping and you don't feel you can do this on your own, it's getting help. Talk to that friend, that family member, talk to those free, independent and impartial debt advice charities and they're the ones who kind of all together that hopefully sees you through all this. And then we're talking about building wealth once you've got rid of the debts.

Amazing. Thank you so much, Andy. This has been a really good episode. And hopefully our listeners, if they are struggling, this is step one and day one for them to make that change and tackle their debt. So thank you so, so much. Next time we're helping you get your dream job. But if there's anything you'd like me to chat about on future episodes, get in touch via Legal & General's Instagram and TikTok channels. You can keep up to date with the show there, get a glimpse behind scenes and exclusive tips from a range of our experts. I'd love it if you share the podcast. Tell a mate, leave a review and help other people start getting a little bit richer. A Little Bit Richer is brought to you by Legal & General. Thank you for listening and see you soon.

Amazing. Thank you so much, Andy. This has been a really good episode. And hopefully our listeners, if they are struggling, this is step one and day one for them to make that change and tackle their debt. So thank you so, so much. Next time we're helping you get your dream job. But if there's anything you'd like me to chat about on future episodes, get in touch via Legal & General's Instagram and TikTok channels. You can keep up to date with the show there, get a glimpse behind scenes and exclusive tips from a range of our experts. I'd love it if you share the podcast. Tell a mate, leave a review and help other people start getting a little bit richer. A Little Bit Richer is brought to you by Legal & General. Thank you for listening and see you soon.