When Malcolm Turnbull was prime minister, he made a call that made the then president of the United States very, very angry.

Donald Trump called it the “worst call he’d had all day” – a “killer”, “crazy” and “disgusting”.

But Turnbull argues that standing up to Trump, even if it means saying things he doesn’t want to hear, is the only effective way to deal with him.

Now, as Australia faces the prospect of a second Trump term, Turnbull says Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s willingness to face off with the president could make the difference on everything from the economy to our national security.

Today, former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull on how he forged a relationship with Donald Trump and what Anthony Albanese needs to know if Trump wins again.

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Guest: Former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull