Well, good, yeah, great, all right, let's jump in. So, Paul, late last year you went to Wyala in South Australia, a place that I believe once held great promise as the steel capital of Australia. Can you tell me a bit about the town, what it was like when you arrived.

Well, good, yeah, great, all right, let's jump in. So, Paul, late last year you went to Wyala in South Australia, a place that I believe once held great promise as the steel capital of Australia. Can you tell me a bit about the town, what it was like when you arrived.

Well, it's a trick to get there from Sydney, I can tell you. It's four hours north of Adelaide, about four hundred k's and it's a long, flat road.

Well, it's a trick to get there from Sydney, I can tell you. It's four hours north of Adelaide, about four hundred k's and it's a long, flat road.

Investigative journalist Paul Barry is probably most recognizable as the face and voice of ABC's Media Watch. At least that's the reception he got in the Wayala pubs.

Investigative journalist Paul Barry is probably most recognizable as the face and voice of ABC's Media Watch. At least that's the reception he got in the Wayala pubs.

It was extraordinary. Just walk into this bar and they'll go, oh, what are you doing here?

It was extraordinary. Just walk into this bar and they'll go, oh, what are you doing here?

He wasn't just there to drink with the locals. When he visited in December last year, the steel works was at a standstill. Contractors hadn't been paid and staff were facing mass layoffs. Paul was there to find out how things got so bad, what.

He wasn't just there to drink with the locals. When he visited in December last year, the steel works was at a standstill. Contractors hadn't been paid and staff were facing mass layoffs. Paul was there to find out how things got so bad, what.

Happens to the generations of steel workers and their families, who who've worked in the business, and what about all the others who rely on the steel works for the jobs. People are very worried and justifiably so.

Happens to the generations of steel workers and their families, who who've worked in the business, and what about all the others who rely on the steel works for the jobs. People are very worried and justifiably so.

From Schwartz Media, I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM Today investigative journalist Paul Barry on the billionaire who brought Wayala to the brink and how the town can be saved. It's Tuesday, January twenty eighth, So Paul to start with, tell me a bit about Wayala and why the steel works there are so important.

From Schwartz Media, I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM Today investigative journalist Paul Barry on the billionaire who brought Wayala to the brink and how the town can be saved. It's Tuesday, January twenty eighth, So Paul to start with, tell me a bit about Wayala and why the steel works there are so important.

So it's a town that has twenty two thousand people. It was going to be much bigger. It's kind of like Canberra. It's sort of laid out very spaciously, big wide boulevards, trees down the middle, sometimes, lots of brick built public buildings and a very very friendly town. I just got a beautiful welcome when I went there. Wyela was started back in the nineteen forties as a shipyard and then in the sixties as a steel works by BHP.

So it's a town that has twenty two thousand people. It was going to be much bigger. It's kind of like Canberra. It's sort of laid out very spaciously, big wide boulevards, trees down the middle, sometimes, lots of brick built public buildings and a very very friendly town. I just got a beautiful welcome when I went there. Wyela was started back in the nineteen forties as a shipyard and then in the sixties as a steel works by BHP.

Indus Field Development. Then South Australia takes a big step forward with the opening will be huge forty million pounds steel works in Wyala.

Indus Field Development. Then South Australia takes a big step forward with the opening will be huge forty million pounds steel works in Wyala.

It's the only steel works in Australia that makes the only primary steel works that makes what's called long steel, and that is Girder's rails, the stuff that is used in the building industry, and if you didn't make it at Whyala, you'd basically have to import it.

It's the only steel works in Australia that makes the only primary steel works that makes what's called long steel, and that is Girder's rails, the stuff that is used in the building industry, and if you didn't make it at Whyala, you'd basically have to import it.

From these automated smelters and rollers will come the vital steel to feed the hungry growth of Australia's building, car making and engineering industries.

From these automated smelters and rollers will come the vital steel to feed the hungry growth of Australia's building, car making and engineering industries.

Also, the steel works is very important to the town. Although only about eleven hundred people or one thousand people now work there, there's something like four thousand jobs in the town estimated to be dependent on it. And that's not far off half the workforce in Wyala. So if you got rid of the steel works, if it went busted and wasn't rescued, Wyler's future would be very much in doubt. I don't know what would happen to it.

Also, the steel works is very important to the town. Although only about eleven hundred people or one thousand people now work there, there's something like four thousand jobs in the town estimated to be dependent on it. And that's not far off half the workforce in Wyala. So if you got rid of the steel works, if it went busted and wasn't rescued, Wyler's future would be very much in doubt. I don't know what would happen to it.

And now the country's most important news deal making plan.

And now the country's most important news deal making plan.

And so what did people who spoke to Inwyela say about their jobs to how fearful are they of the future of Whyala.

And so what did people who spoke to Inwyela say about their jobs to how fearful are they of the future of Whyala.

They're incredibly fearful. Wailer is old. It's like sixty sixty years old at least, it's desperately in need of investment, desperately in need of maintenance. It went bust back in twenty sixteen when Ariam owned it and it was then rescued after a year in administration, and the guy who bought it, Sanjeev Gupta, was sort of seen as a savior and it looked like all the problems were solved.

They're incredibly fearful. Wailer is old. It's like sixty sixty years old at least, it's desperately in need of investment, desperately in need of maintenance. It went bust back in twenty sixteen when Ariam owned it and it was then rescued after a year in administration, and the guy who bought it, Sanjeev Gupta, was sort of seen as a savior and it looked like all the problems were solved.

Uncertainly in terms of the future of this plant is now over. We have a lot of work to do together and you know, a great future ahead, but we need to work together and make changes because this is not currently a sustainable, world class plant. It needs to become one. We're close to finish.

Uncertainly in terms of the future of this plant is now over. We have a lot of work to do together and you know, a great future ahead, but we need to work together and make changes because this is not currently a sustainable, world class plant. It needs to become one. We're close to finish.

Sanjiv Gupta is a is a British Indian business and he started off as a commodities trader and about ten years ago he started up buying steelworks around the world. All these steel works were losing money. They're all pretty desperate. They're all competing or struggling to compete against the Vietnamese and the Chinese and the Koreans who turned this stuff out in massive quantities much cheaper.

Sanjiv Gupta is a is a British Indian business and he started off as a commodities trader and about ten years ago he started up buying steelworks around the world. All these steel works were losing money. They're all pretty desperate. They're all competing or struggling to compete against the Vietnamese and the Chinese and the Koreans who turned this stuff out in massive quantities much cheaper.

We were not just another company looking to make a quick book out of a distressed opportunity. It's first almost a family business and I the guard this as part of my family.

We were not just another company looking to make a quick book out of a distressed opportunity. It's first almost a family business and I the guard this as part of my family.

Essentially, what this guy Sanjiv Gupta promised, and whatever was it would all be modernized, it would be expanded, they would use renewable energy, it would make green steel and it would be a magnificent future. It's a wonderful feeling for our community.

Essentially, what this guy Sanjiv Gupta promised, and whatever was it would all be modernized, it would be expanded, they would use renewable energy, it would make green steel and it would be a magnificent future. It's a wonderful feeling for our community.

Everyone's feeling the sign from business workers, people there in there, retired.

Everyone's feeling the sign from business workers, people there in there, retired.

Everybody's feeling this feeling of relief.

Everybody's feeling this feeling of relief.

And the more that we're hearing about mister Gupture hearing about liberty, the better we're feeling.

And the more that we're hearing about mister Gupture hearing about liberty, the better we're feeling.

And so what has happened.

And so what has happened.

None of that stuff has happened. There hasn't been any investment. The coke ovens have packed up all together. The blast furnace has been out of action for half a year. It's now back in action again marginally, but people are getting more and more worried that it's going to go bust quite soon. I talked to a creditor, a guy called Jim Watson, who runs an engineering consulting business. He relied almost entirely on Wyler for his business, and he built it up to a stage where he had seventeen people. He persuaded a lot of people to come up, professional people to come up from Adelaide with their families, had a half a million dollar contract coming into early twenty twenty four, all going fine, and suddenly the work drives up. There is no work. He has to lay people off. They go back to Adelaide. He won't be able to get them back. He's now laid more people off. What happens to him if the steel works goes down. It's not a good outlook.

None of that stuff has happened. There hasn't been any investment. The coke ovens have packed up all together. The blast furnace has been out of action for half a year. It's now back in action again marginally, but people are getting more and more worried that it's going to go bust quite soon. I talked to a creditor, a guy called Jim Watson, who runs an engineering consulting business. He relied almost entirely on Wyler for his business, and he built it up to a stage where he had seventeen people. He persuaded a lot of people to come up, professional people to come up from Adelaide with their families, had a half a million dollar contract coming into early twenty twenty four, all going fine, and suddenly the work drives up. There is no work. He has to lay people off. They go back to Adelaide. He won't be able to get them back. He's now laid more people off. What happens to him if the steel works goes down. It's not a good outlook.

And so as people who rely on the steel works have been dealing with this, what has said Ajiev Gupta been doing.

And so as people who rely on the steel works have been dealing with this, what has said Ajiev Gupta been doing.

In the middle of the crisis last year, when all his creditors in Wahalaaras are sort of jumping up and down and not being paid, Gupta is in Sydney buying a twelve and a half million dollar apartment on the waterfront from Broadcast to John Laws. He's at the same time, just up the road from there, he's got a thirty four million dollar house that he's got plans for renovate a cost of at least ten million dollars. And so here's a guy who's brought up a whole bunch of ailing steelworks, promising in all of these places that he's going to transform them. And in each of these places, the story is the same. Basically, the steelworks is now on the brink of bankruptcy. Some of them actually have gone bankrupt. He's being chased by people who are trying to wind up all these companies. Wallas Steelworks has been rocked by revelations. Owner Sanjeev Gupta's overseas officers have been searched by serious fraud investigators.

In the middle of the crisis last year, when all his creditors in Wahalaaras are sort of jumping up and down and not being paid, Gupta is in Sydney buying a twelve and a half million dollar apartment on the waterfront from Broadcast to John Laws. He's at the same time, just up the road from there, he's got a thirty four million dollar house that he's got plans for renovate a cost of at least ten million dollars. And so here's a guy who's brought up a whole bunch of ailing steelworks, promising in all of these places that he's going to transform them. And in each of these places, the story is the same. Basically, the steelworks is now on the brink of bankruptcy. Some of them actually have gone bankrupt. He's being chased by people who are trying to wind up all these companies. Wallas Steelworks has been rocked by revelations. Owner Sanjeev Gupta's overseas officers have been searched by serious fraud investigators.

Police wanting more information in their investigations. After the Serious fraud Officers in the UK launched a probe into alleged money laundering within GfG Alliance, he reportedly owes almost a billion dollars to administrators of his collapsed financier.

Police wanting more information in their investigations. After the Serious fraud Officers in the UK launched a probe into alleged money laundering within GfG Alliance, he reportedly owes almost a billion dollars to administrators of his collapsed financier.

So it's an absolute hot mess. And as the crisis is hitting all these poor people who work at the plant, or who are contractors to the plant, or have supplied stuff to the plant, who aren't getting paid, he is out there spending like a drunken sailor. So Wyler is, in a way one of the better ones. It's not quite so far down the tube as the ones in Europe are. But what's happened in Europe gives you a very strong clue of what's going to happen here, which is that promises aren't kept. He keeps on paying the workers for a bit and then eventually it all falls apart and it all goes bust.

So it's an absolute hot mess. And as the crisis is hitting all these poor people who work at the plant, or who are contractors to the plant, or have supplied stuff to the plant, who aren't getting paid, he is out there spending like a drunken sailor. So Wyler is, in a way one of the better ones. It's not quite so far down the tube as the ones in Europe are. But what's happened in Europe gives you a very strong clue of what's going to happen here, which is that promises aren't kept. He keeps on paying the workers for a bit and then eventually it all falls apart and it all goes bust.

After the break, how to bring Wyala back from the brink? Paul, I suppose there is a bigger question that goes beyond the failures of management, and that is whether or not it is actually possible to make the Wyla Steel works viable. Will it ever produce steel the way that it used to?

After the break, how to bring Wyala back from the brink? Paul, I suppose there is a bigger question that goes beyond the failures of management, and that is whether or not it is actually possible to make the Wyla Steel works viable. Will it ever produce steel the way that it used to?

Absolutely? I mean there is a question about can Australia produced steel competitively Koreans, the Chinese and Vietnamese. They invest much more money, have invested much more money. They produce on a much larger scale. We probably can't compete with them. But do you let your steel works go bust and take a town down with it with twenty two thousand people? What do you do with them in terms of relocating them or putting them on the doll or finding jobs for them. So it may be that you can't make steel as cheaply as some of these competitors, but there's a cost in giving it up as well. And unless you can find other jobs to go into Waiela, you're looking at the town that is doomed. So I think there are very strong arguments for trying to say if the steel works, and it's not in terms of patching up an old one, it is in terms of building a new one that is powered by renewable energy.

Absolutely? I mean there is a question about can Australia produced steel competitively Koreans, the Chinese and Vietnamese. They invest much more money, have invested much more money. They produce on a much larger scale. We probably can't compete with them. But do you let your steel works go bust and take a town down with it with twenty two thousand people? What do you do with them in terms of relocating them or putting them on the doll or finding jobs for them. So it may be that you can't make steel as cheaply as some of these competitors, but there's a cost in giving it up as well. And unless you can find other jobs to go into Waiela, you're looking at the town that is doomed. So I think there are very strong arguments for trying to say if the steel works, and it's not in terms of patching up an old one, it is in terms of building a new one that is powered by renewable energy.

And do you think that that is a viable option for Wyler green steel?

And do you think that that is a viable option for Wyler green steel?

Look, I'm no expert, but the experts tell me that it is because that's the way that steel around the world is moving. All these steel companies are being forced basically to cut their emissions, and so you've got governments around the world which are stepping in Britain or in Europe to fund that transition to green steel. They say that Wyler has a lot of natural advantages. It's got iron ore called magnetite, which is very very high ferrost content in absolute abundance in the hills nearby. So that's a very important thing. Magnetite isn't a very common iron ore, and it's what you need if you're going to get rid of the old traditional coke blast furnaces. You need something with a high iron content. So that's one big plus. It's got a huge supply of iron ore. It's got a railway from where these iron ore mines might be. It's got a railway from the steel works to customers, it's got a deep water port, it's got massive amount of renewable energy because South Australia the wind is blowing constantly and the sunshines all the time. And it's also got a workforce. It's got a skilled workforce. So yes, I think it has a lot of stuff going for it, but it does need commitment from the government, which you would have to put in some money, and it needs commitment from an international steel company which would need to go Yeah, we want to be there. We think with this can be done. There is evidence that there are people out there who are prepared to do that. The South Australian government called for expressions of interest in making green iron, which is kind of the previous step to green steel, and they're fifty nine companies. I think it was said, yes, we're interested. And the South Australian government is also building a green hydrogen plant which is going to happen whatever happens to Wuyala, and that's supposedly going to be online in twenty twenty six. So there's a whole bunch of reasons why green steel could definitely work in Wyala not worth giving up now.

Look, I'm no expert, but the experts tell me that it is because that's the way that steel around the world is moving. All these steel companies are being forced basically to cut their emissions, and so you've got governments around the world which are stepping in Britain or in Europe to fund that transition to green steel. They say that Wyler has a lot of natural advantages. It's got iron ore called magnetite, which is very very high ferrost content in absolute abundance in the hills nearby. So that's a very important thing. Magnetite isn't a very common iron ore, and it's what you need if you're going to get rid of the old traditional coke blast furnaces. You need something with a high iron content. So that's one big plus. It's got a huge supply of iron ore. It's got a railway from where these iron ore mines might be. It's got a railway from the steel works to customers, it's got a deep water port, it's got massive amount of renewable energy because South Australia the wind is blowing constantly and the sunshines all the time. And it's also got a workforce. It's got a skilled workforce. So yes, I think it has a lot of stuff going for it, but it does need commitment from the government, which you would have to put in some money, and it needs commitment from an international steel company which would need to go Yeah, we want to be there. We think with this can be done. There is evidence that there are people out there who are prepared to do that. The South Australian government called for expressions of interest in making green iron, which is kind of the previous step to green steel, and they're fifty nine companies. I think it was said, yes, we're interested. And the South Australian government is also building a green hydrogen plant which is going to happen whatever happens to Wuyala, and that's supposedly going to be online in twenty twenty six. So there's a whole bunch of reasons why green steel could definitely work in Wyala not worth giving up now.

Right, But it sounds like for any of that to happen you would need not only government intervention government funds, but you would need Gupta to go so that another company could come in.

Right, But it sounds like for any of that to happen you would need not only government intervention government funds, but you would need Gupta to go so that another company could come in.

Yeah, damn right, there's no way, as they say, there's no way this is going to happen unless you get the keys to the place. You have to persuade him to step aside, and that is unlikely to happen, judging by the way he's hung on to all these other businesses he has around the world. So it's not an easy job to get him out, that's for sure. But I think you do need to get him out because he ain't got the money to do it.

Yeah, damn right, there's no way, as they say, there's no way this is going to happen unless you get the keys to the place. You have to persuade him to step aside, and that is unlikely to happen, judging by the way he's hung on to all these other businesses he has around the world. So it's not an easy job to get him out, that's for sure. But I think you do need to get him out because he ain't got the money to do it.

Obviously, a federal election is on the cards in the next few months. How does that complicate the situation.

Obviously, a federal election is on the cards in the next few months. How does that complicate the situation.

Well, I think it's very hard to see a coalition government putting a lot of taxpayer money into green steel. I mean it would involve renewable energy and supporting industry, neither of which the coalition is very keen on, and it's got a policy to rely on nuclear power in twenty forty. So the chances of Whyala being rescued and modernized. With the Coalition in the driving seat, it seems to me a very slim So Labour has a problem, which is if this place is to be rescued and to be its future to be secured, Labour needs to act. That means that it's not just a oh, this is an interesting story that's going to bubble along for a bit. This is actually a bit of a crisis for Wyler because there's only what two or three months until the next election. Unless something is done before then, it's really hard to see how this future can be secured.

Well, I think it's very hard to see a coalition government putting a lot of taxpayer money into green steel. I mean it would involve renewable energy and supporting industry, neither of which the coalition is very keen on, and it's got a policy to rely on nuclear power in twenty forty. So the chances of Whyala being rescued and modernized. With the Coalition in the driving seat, it seems to me a very slim So Labour has a problem, which is if this place is to be rescued and to be its future to be secured, Labour needs to act. That means that it's not just a oh, this is an interesting story that's going to bubble along for a bit. This is actually a bit of a crisis for Wyler because there's only what two or three months until the next election. Unless something is done before then, it's really hard to see how this future can be secured.

Paul, thank you so much for your time.

Paul, thank you so much for your time.

It's pleasure.

It's pleasure.

You can read Paul Barry's reporting from Wyala at the monthly dot com dot Au. Also in the news today, the Trump administration has launched widespread immigration raids in Chicago. The arrests are part of a mass deportation plan targeting undocumented immigrants in the United States. Last week, President Trump signed a number of executive orders relating to immigration, including restricting legal pathways to come to the US and attempting to ban birthright citizenship. His administration has also given deportation powers to a broad range of law enforcement agencies. And Australia's Foreign Minister, Penny Wong has urged unity across the political divide in a speech at Auschwitz marking the eightieth anniversary of the Concentration Camps liberation. Senator Wong was joined in Poland by Attorney General Marc Dreyfuss and Anti Semitism Envoy Jillian Siegel to commemorate International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Last week, National Cabinet met to discuss the rise in anti Semitic attacks in Australia, announcing they would start a register to track anti Semitic incidents. The Coalition has criticized the government's approaches insufficient. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. See tomorrow for an interview with former Australian of the Year Grace Tame.

You can read Paul Barry's reporting from Wyala at the monthly dot com dot Au. Also in the news today, the Trump administration has launched widespread immigration raids in Chicago. The arrests are part of a mass deportation plan targeting undocumented immigrants in the United States. Last week, President Trump signed a number of executive orders relating to immigration, including restricting legal pathways to come to the US and attempting to ban birthright citizenship. His administration has also given deportation powers to a broad range of law enforcement agencies. And Australia's Foreign Minister, Penny Wong has urged unity across the political divide in a speech at Auschwitz marking the eightieth anniversary of the Concentration Camps liberation. Senator Wong was joined in Poland by Attorney General Marc Dreyfuss and Anti Semitism Envoy Jillian Siegel to commemorate International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Last week, National Cabinet met to discuss the rise in anti Semitic attacks in Australia, announcing they would start a register to track anti Semitic incidents. The Coalition has criticized the government's approaches insufficient. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. See tomorrow for an interview with former Australian of the Year Grace Tame.