Immigration is back at the centre of federal politics – again.

The Coalition’s new leadership is arguing Australia needs lower numbers, tougher rules, and a clearer cap on how many people we bring in each year.

It’s a familiar conversation. In the lead up to the 2024 election, Peter Dutton tried to put a hard number on it – promising to cut migration by 100,000 a year, saying it would help free up housing for Australians.

But critics say a large cut would hit the workforce Australia relies on, including the people needed to build more homes.

Abul Rizvi was a senior official in the Department of Immigration from the early 90s to 2007, when he left as deputy secretary.

He says the argument we keep having – election after election – skips the bigger question: Australia’s need for a long-term population plan, and what we want it to achieve.

Today, Abul Rizvi on the politics of population growth.

This episode was first published in April, 2025.

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Guest: Former deputy secretary of the department of immigration, Abul Rizvi.

Photo: AAP Image/Lukas Coch