Spotify has transformed how the world listens to music. But as it’s grown, the company behind it, and its founder Daniel Ek, have been reshaping more than just the music industry.

Ek has become a key figure in the global defence industry, investing more than a billion dollars into military technology based on artificial intelligence. Meanwhile, Spotify itself has embraced AI in ways that many artists say undermine their work.

Today, author of Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist Liz Pelly, on how Spotify’s pursuit for power and profit is changing music, and what listeners can do to take back control.

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Guest: Author of Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist Liz Pelly