Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs of podcast based on Rolling Stones. Hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist I'm Britney Spanos.

Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs of podcast based on Rolling Stones. Hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist I'm Britney Spanos.

And I'm Rob Sheffield were here to shed light on the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great. And this week we are talking about Jeff Buckley Grace.

And I'm Rob Sheffield were here to shed light on the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great. And this week we are talking about Jeff Buckley Grace.

Grace ranks at three ninety four on the New List and his cover of Leonard cohen tally Lullia was actually on the original list at two fifty nine. I'm a big Jeff Buckley fan. I'm very excited to talk about this. But do you remember the first time that you heard the album Grace or encountered who Jeff Buckley was.

Grace ranks at three ninety four on the New List and his cover of Leonard cohen tally Lullia was actually on the original list at two fifty nine. I'm a big Jeff Buckley fan. I'm very excited to talk about this. But do you remember the first time that you heard the album Grace or encountered who Jeff Buckley was.

Yeah, it took a long time with me though. It was an album that really and a musician who really had to create his own audience because he just didn't fit into anything. He didn't you know, he didn't fit into any radio format. He didn't fit into any genre. Really, genres are just funny words like as fiance would say, and that for Jeff Buckley, there wasn't really an audience that was ready to hear what he was doing. So Grace, the song and Grace the album both took years for me. Yeah, Where's for You? It was very different.

Yeah, it took a long time with me though. It was an album that really and a musician who really had to create his own audience because he just didn't fit into anything. He didn't you know, he didn't fit into any radio format. He didn't fit into any genre. Really, genres are just funny words like as fiance would say, and that for Jeff Buckley, there wasn't really an audience that was ready to hear what he was doing. So Grace, the song and Grace the album both took years for me. Yeah, Where's for You? It was very different.

Yeah, I feel like by the time that I was a teenager, there was so much lore around Jeff Buckley, so much of this mystery. I mean, he died very tragically when he was thirty. He drowned in a river while he was in Memphis about to record a second album, and you know there's all that kind of just like this tumblerrification of like his life because he was also just like super hot, and like all the songs were about like yearning and longing and love and like, you know, for teen girls, that's like ultimate musical bait. Here's this guy who died tragically young and also sings just about like being so in love. So I feel like by the time that I was a teenager like that, like there was already this like legacy built around Jeff Buckley that was very much on the level on par with like Elliot Smith, Kurt Kobaning, Like that was you know, kind of being just like amplified by teenage fans. So well, I'd heard Hollylujo when I was in middle school, and then Grace I got into later, and again it was a big part of just like being on Tumblr and live journal and all of those kind of sad teen spaces that were sort of sharing his music. So I was really obsessed with with Grace.

Yeah, I feel like by the time that I was a teenager, there was so much lore around Jeff Buckley, so much of this mystery. I mean, he died very tragically when he was thirty. He drowned in a river while he was in Memphis about to record a second album, and you know there's all that kind of just like this tumblerrification of like his life because he was also just like super hot, and like all the songs were about like yearning and longing and love and like, you know, for teen girls, that's like ultimate musical bait. Here's this guy who died tragically young and also sings just about like being so in love. So I feel like by the time that I was a teenager like that, like there was already this like legacy built around Jeff Buckley that was very much on the level on par with like Elliot Smith, Kurt Kobaning, Like that was you know, kind of being just like amplified by teenage fans. So well, I'd heard Hollylujo when I was in middle school, and then Grace I got into later, and again it was a big part of just like being on Tumblr and live journal and all of those kind of sad teen spaces that were sort of sharing his music. So I was really obsessed with with Grace.

Then you mentioned live journal and Tumblr. He didn't really become a star until until later when stuff like that was invented. But he was one of the last pre internet rock stars when you know, when he wasn't even really a star, because I think having those communities online for people to engage, I think he was one of the first examples of an artists whose reputation just started to really soar once people like that could find each other, because it was just really different when he was like getting no airplay was when he was around.

Then you mentioned live journal and Tumblr. He didn't really become a star until until later when stuff like that was invented. But he was one of the last pre internet rock stars when you know, when he wasn't even really a star, because I think having those communities online for people to engage, I think he was one of the first examples of an artists whose reputation just started to really soar once people like that could find each other, because it was just really different when he was like getting no airplay was when he was around.

Itself is just I think, so brilliant, so well done. I mean, he's such an incredible singer. Like his there's a few covers on there, but the original songs as well are just like absolutely just gorgeous and so poetic and intense. He's just very intense guy again part of the appeal. But yeah, like I think, you know, it's just one of those things where there was so little of him to listen to, so it's kind of like piecing together what could have been and who he was and all of that. You know, it's a similar story with his father as well. His father is the Folks singer Tim Buckley, who passed away when he was twenty eight and so passed away when Jeff was pretty young, and Jeff was raised by his mother and his stepfather in California. There are sort of those parallels of like the father and son kind of tragic young death and sort of limited kind of output type of happening there. That's also kind of adds so many more layers to that story as well. And of course the song Grace that ended up making the list. That song is a song that was written with Gary Lucas the guitarist, and it was based off of an instrumental that Gary Lucas had written. And the song again is like such a perfect example of like Jeff Buckley's writing style, which is it's a very simple premise that is like so over the top and so intense and so like just like peak yearning. It's just about him saying goodbye to his girlfriend at the airport on a rainy day. And I mean, if you just kind of like listen to the first the song the first time, You're like, is that it's just so much deeper and so much more intense. And you know, it's also, like he said, it's about not feeling so bad about your own mortality when you have true love, which like sure man like, but like love that eat it up, like I'm an intense way of talking about like a very mundane sort of activity.

Itself is just I think, so brilliant, so well done. I mean, he's such an incredible singer. Like his there's a few covers on there, but the original songs as well are just like absolutely just gorgeous and so poetic and intense. He's just very intense guy again part of the appeal. But yeah, like I think, you know, it's just one of those things where there was so little of him to listen to, so it's kind of like piecing together what could have been and who he was and all of that. You know, it's a similar story with his father as well. His father is the Folks singer Tim Buckley, who passed away when he was twenty eight and so passed away when Jeff was pretty young, and Jeff was raised by his mother and his stepfather in California. There are sort of those parallels of like the father and son kind of tragic young death and sort of limited kind of output type of happening there. That's also kind of adds so many more layers to that story as well. And of course the song Grace that ended up making the list. That song is a song that was written with Gary Lucas the guitarist, and it was based off of an instrumental that Gary Lucas had written. And the song again is like such a perfect example of like Jeff Buckley's writing style, which is it's a very simple premise that is like so over the top and so intense and so like just like peak yearning. It's just about him saying goodbye to his girlfriend at the airport on a rainy day. And I mean, if you just kind of like listen to the first the song the first time, You're like, is that it's just so much deeper and so much more intense. And you know, it's also, like he said, it's about not feeling so bad about your own mortality when you have true love, which like sure man like, but like love that eat it up, like I'm an intense way of talking about like a very mundane sort of activity.

Who doesn't chat about that at the airport. It's like, let me stop at the cinnabuns and let's talk about mortality love. You mentioned Hallelujah, which is of course his most famous cover and a cover that blew up before the original was anywhere near as famous. It really made the original. But his version of that that leads into the Smiths I Know It's over. That was a real turning point for me in terms of learning to hear what he was doing, because the first time I heard it, I said, you got to be kidding. You're taking the song that was already one of the most melodramatic songs ever recorded for other human beings to listen to, and nobody ever accused that song of not being histrionic enough, and he took it to such mind blowingly hyperbolic melodramatic heights that it really did seem like, Okay, he's overdoing it so much that he makes it sound like, no, this is what the song is meant to be when it goes into that falsetto and completely leaves the song behind, and it was really kind of a revelation of what he was doing.

Who doesn't chat about that at the airport. It's like, let me stop at the cinnabuns and let's talk about mortality love. You mentioned Hallelujah, which is of course his most famous cover and a cover that blew up before the original was anywhere near as famous. It really made the original. But his version of that that leads into the Smiths I Know It's over. That was a real turning point for me in terms of learning to hear what he was doing, because the first time I heard it, I said, you got to be kidding. You're taking the song that was already one of the most melodramatic songs ever recorded for other human beings to listen to, and nobody ever accused that song of not being histrionic enough, and he took it to such mind blowingly hyperbolic melodramatic heights that it really did seem like, Okay, he's overdoing it so much that he makes it sound like, no, this is what the song is meant to be when it goes into that falsetto and completely leaves the song behind, and it was really kind of a revelation of what he was doing.

I will say he has one of my favorite falsettos in music because there's also really great sort of deep cut from him that I don't remember what exactly. I think it's from some just like compilation of like unreleased music that had been put out posthumously called Everybody Here Wants You. Great song. His falsetto on that is absolutely stunning. It's like kind of like a it's like so unlike most of Grace where it's just like this like sort of like groovy, sexy R and B song, like a little bit more restrained musically than some of like the kind of like bigger rock moments on Grace. But his false seto on that is so perfect, Like I love and I just like love his voice and it's very clear like how much how many male singers have really tried to evoke and like channel the Jeff Buckley musical spirit in the decade since seems very very obvious how how much of that influence has existed.

I will say he has one of my favorite falsettos in music because there's also really great sort of deep cut from him that I don't remember what exactly. I think it's from some just like compilation of like unreleased music that had been put out posthumously called Everybody Here Wants You. Great song. His falsetto on that is absolutely stunning. It's like kind of like a it's like so unlike most of Grace where it's just like this like sort of like groovy, sexy R and B song, like a little bit more restrained musically than some of like the kind of like bigger rock moments on Grace. But his false seto on that is so perfect, Like I love and I just like love his voice and it's very clear like how much how many male singers have really tried to evoke and like channel the Jeff Buckley musical spirit in the decade since seems very very obvious how how much of that influence has existed.

God, you are so right about that. It's so funny that. I mean, it's striking for me because personally, I don't remember singers going for that kind of falsetto before. He did, certainly not like in that you know, rock kind of context. Yeah. Every time I hear, especially like a young male singer with an acoustic guitar do that kind of falsetto, I just think this is something really Jeff Bucket kind of invented. It isn't just something that he demonstrated to the world, but that kind of singing, he took it so far over the top compared to anybody who did that kind of thing before.

God, you are so right about that. It's so funny that. I mean, it's striking for me because personally, I don't remember singers going for that kind of falsetto before. He did, certainly not like in that you know, rock kind of context. Yeah. Every time I hear, especially like a young male singer with an acoustic guitar do that kind of falsetto, I just think this is something really Jeff Bucket kind of invented. It isn't just something that he demonstrated to the world, but that kind of singing, he took it so far over the top compared to anybody who did that kind of thing before.

Yeah, I feel like I hear a lot of him in Hosier right now. I feel like that. I got really into Hosier last year and I was like, I was like, why do I like Hoser so much? And I was like, oh, yeah, because he reminded me so much of Jeff Buckley, and I feel like I hear a lot of that. I guess maybe that's also kind of where I'm seeing like a lot of the crossover too, and like the Jeff Buckley sort of continuing popularity in his music is like a lot of these sort of male singer songwriters like Hoser, like a Lewis Capaldi or even thinking of like Nile Horn's like I guess with more So I was like first album and sort of totally you know, those kind of more guitar driven. I think a lot of those A lot of times people want to put them more closely to like John Mayer, who is also very Jeff Buckley influenced, but it is very clearly seems to go back to like Jeff more so than even that, Like it seems like to go back to that sort of like genre bending, soulful kind of like pop rock sound of his.

Yeah, I feel like I hear a lot of him in Hosier right now. I feel like that. I got really into Hosier last year and I was like, I was like, why do I like Hoser so much? And I was like, oh, yeah, because he reminded me so much of Jeff Buckley, and I feel like I hear a lot of that. I guess maybe that's also kind of where I'm seeing like a lot of the crossover too, and like the Jeff Buckley sort of continuing popularity in his music is like a lot of these sort of male singer songwriters like Hoser, like a Lewis Capaldi or even thinking of like Nile Horn's like I guess with more So I was like first album and sort of totally you know, those kind of more guitar driven. I think a lot of those A lot of times people want to put them more closely to like John Mayer, who is also very Jeff Buckley influenced, but it is very clearly seems to go back to like Jeff more so than even that, Like it seems like to go back to that sort of like genre bending, soulful kind of like pop rock sound of his.

Yeah to me, no as well like another like you know, hitting those high notes and doing that in a totally unconventional sort of style.

Yeah to me, no as well like another like you know, hitting those high notes and doing that in a totally unconventional sort of style.

Yeah. And I feel like we're like constantly in waves of like irony and earnestness and like pop culture of like it's like either a really like ironic era or like a very earnest era. And I feel like we're in that sort of like earnest moment again. And we could hear that in like the music that's really popular right now, we can hear that, and like you know, the artists are blowing up, and I feel like the music that's also we're nostalgic for. And I think Jeff Buckley being sort of like this kind of perfect emblem of earnestness kind of is always sort of a moment for him to kind of come back or for people to discover him or rediscover him in some way. So I feel like he's kind of that's maybe why there's kind of a new wave of fans coming in.

Yeah. And I feel like we're like constantly in waves of like irony and earnestness and like pop culture of like it's like either a really like ironic era or like a very earnest era. And I feel like we're in that sort of like earnest moment again. And we could hear that in like the music that's really popular right now, we can hear that, and like you know, the artists are blowing up, and I feel like the music that's also we're nostalgic for. And I think Jeff Buckley being sort of like this kind of perfect emblem of earnestness kind of is always sort of a moment for him to kind of come back or for people to discover him or rediscover him in some way. So I feel like he's kind of that's maybe why there's kind of a new wave of fans coming in.

That's so fascinating. So an age of earnestness is an age that's open to Jeff Buckley.

That's so fascinating. So an age of earnestness is an age that's open to Jeff Buckley.

They're more ready than ever for Jeff.

They're more ready than ever for Jeff.

Buy if I'm hearing you correctly, Jeff Buckley is bigger now than he's ever been, which I think it's fair to say. I mean, yeah, just gets more and more. He hits deeper with people every time.

Buy if I'm hearing you correctly, Jeff Buckley is bigger now than he's ever been, which I think it's fair to say. I mean, yeah, just gets more and more. He hits deeper with people every time.

Yeah, I think especially because it's so it's less so about Hallelujah right now, Like obviously that's sure the like Hallelujah sort of I guess it would it could be called revival in the two thousands or like the Hallelujah like popularity that was happening in the two thousands was I mean, such a massive, massive moment. But I think right now it does seem like, you know, I've been hearing a lot of Jeff Buckley and like television and movies and like high fidelity of the show. Also like had Jeff Buckley featured prey pop, Yeah, and a Jeff Buckley inspired character on there, yes, which like was great. I love that show. And yeah, I mean just like I feel like it's like happening a little bit. Maybe maybe I'm also just like I'm paying closer attention to the Jeff Buckley vibes that are being thrown my way than most people. But there's a lot, So there's there's a lot of a lot of Jeff Buckley, you know.

Yeah, I think especially because it's so it's less so about Hallelujah right now, Like obviously that's sure the like Hallelujah sort of I guess it would it could be called revival in the two thousands or like the Hallelujah like popularity that was happening in the two thousands was I mean, such a massive, massive moment. But I think right now it does seem like, you know, I've been hearing a lot of Jeff Buckley and like television and movies and like high fidelity of the show. Also like had Jeff Buckley featured prey pop, Yeah, and a Jeff Buckley inspired character on there, yes, which like was great. I love that show. And yeah, I mean just like I feel like it's like happening a little bit. Maybe maybe I'm also just like I'm paying closer attention to the Jeff Buckley vibes that are being thrown my way than most people. But there's a lot, So there's there's a lot of a lot of Jeff Buckley, you know.

There's a lot out there, and that he just gets more. They reach a point where it seems like, well, this music from this era is more popular now than anybody could have imagined, and yet just keeps getting more and more popular every year.

There's a lot out there, and that he just gets more. They reach a point where it seems like, well, this music from this era is more popular now than anybody could have imagined, and yet just keeps getting more and more popular every year.

Yeah. Next, we'll be joined by Rolling Stone senior writer David Brown. We are joined now by Rolling Stone senior writer David Brown, who also is the author of the book Dream Brother, The Lives and Music of Jeff and Tim Buckley. Thank you so much, David for being here today.

Yeah. Next, we'll be joined by Rolling Stone senior writer David Brown. We are joined now by Rolling Stone senior writer David Brown, who also is the author of the book Dream Brother, The Lives and Music of Jeff and Tim Buckley. Thank you so much, David for being here today.

I'm thrilled with you guys.

I'm thrilled with you guys.

Yeah, thanks David, And I'm curious what prompted your exploration into Jeff and Tim Buckley's lives originally.

Yeah, thanks David, And I'm curious what prompted your exploration into Jeff and Tim Buckley's lives originally.

Well, I was really fortunate to catch Jeff Buckley live very early in his career, when he was playing at this complete kind of hole in the wall coffee house called Shane on the Lower East Side, when there was just a lot of buzz about him in the early nineties. It was funny. I kept hearing like from people I worked with at another outlet, like have you had Tim Buckley's son is playing in this bar and you should change He's amazing, you should check him out. And I thought Tim Buckley had a son. I had no idea and anyway, so I was lucky to see him a couple of times there and interview him early on for another rival outlet at the time. It was probably one of his first interviews, and he was just a fascinating combination of someone who was both kind of intense and almost mythopoetic in his way and also just totally like goofy and funny. The year later, Grace came out and I you know, kind of lived up to those expectations of what we thought he could bring. And so yeah, that's basically what brought me all into it.

Well, I was really fortunate to catch Jeff Buckley live very early in his career, when he was playing at this complete kind of hole in the wall coffee house called Shane on the Lower East Side, when there was just a lot of buzz about him in the early nineties. It was funny. I kept hearing like from people I worked with at another outlet, like have you had Tim Buckley's son is playing in this bar and you should change He's amazing, you should check him out. And I thought Tim Buckley had a son. I had no idea and anyway, so I was lucky to see him a couple of times there and interview him early on for another rival outlet at the time. It was probably one of his first interviews, and he was just a fascinating combination of someone who was both kind of intense and almost mythopoetic in his way and also just totally like goofy and funny. The year later, Grace came out and I you know, kind of lived up to those expectations of what we thought he could bring. And so yeah, that's basically what brought me all into it.

And what was I mean, I know, there was so much of that buzz happening with those shows and everything that even leading up to there was record execs trying to sign him and just you know, what was it like to watch him live? What was that experience of what his live shows were lated at that time?

And what was I mean, I know, there was so much of that buzz happening with those shows and everything that even leading up to there was record execs trying to sign him and just you know, what was it like to watch him live? What was that experience of what his live shows were lated at that time?

It was kind of amazing because Shane was probably about the size of this room. It was an incredibly small space, didn't even have a sign out front, you know. He would just sit there against this brick wall with his white electric guitar, didn't have a band or anything. And what was kind of amazing was he didn't really have a whole lot of original songs at that point. He was never a super prolific songwriter, but he only had a few songs. So he dipped into his own knowledge of music, whether it was the stuff he grew up with, the records he grew up with in his house and his mother's or stepfather's record collections, and it was kind of his way of trying to find out who he was. So you might hear one of his own songs. Then you'd hear like an Edith paf song or some obscure Elton John song or a Bad Brains song or Led Zepplin's Night Flight, or they'd be like, where's this coming from? You know. We had this incredible sense of history about him. And what was fascinating too was again in the context of the early nineties alternative rock scene, which he wasn't really part of, but that's what it was. There was nothing cheeky or ironic about his covers. It wasn't like someone doing a cover of who was it that did? I'm Easy with that faith no More? You know, or they would do a cover yeah line of Witchi's and you think, well, is this done with a little wink like? You know, that wasn't the case. No matter what Jeff was doing. He was intensely invested in that song, Hank Williams song, Billie Holiday song, you know, whatever it was. He just was fully invested in it. And it actually turned some people off back things because they people would say it seems kind of corny. He was like, he was so like earnest and sincere, and that wasn't cool back then, but that's that's kind of what made him great and made him stand out.

It was kind of amazing because Shane was probably about the size of this room. It was an incredibly small space, didn't even have a sign out front, you know. He would just sit there against this brick wall with his white electric guitar, didn't have a band or anything. And what was kind of amazing was he didn't really have a whole lot of original songs at that point. He was never a super prolific songwriter, but he only had a few songs. So he dipped into his own knowledge of music, whether it was the stuff he grew up with, the records he grew up with in his house and his mother's or stepfather's record collections, and it was kind of his way of trying to find out who he was. So you might hear one of his own songs. Then you'd hear like an Edith paf song or some obscure Elton John song or a Bad Brains song or Led Zepplin's Night Flight, or they'd be like, where's this coming from? You know. We had this incredible sense of history about him. And what was fascinating too was again in the context of the early nineties alternative rock scene, which he wasn't really part of, but that's what it was. There was nothing cheeky or ironic about his covers. It wasn't like someone doing a cover of who was it that did? I'm Easy with that faith no More? You know, or they would do a cover yeah line of Witchi's and you think, well, is this done with a little wink like? You know, that wasn't the case. No matter what Jeff was doing. He was intensely invested in that song, Hank Williams song, Billie Holiday song, you know, whatever it was. He just was fully invested in it. And it actually turned some people off back things because they people would say it seems kind of corny. He was like, he was so like earnest and sincere, and that wasn't cool back then, but that's that's kind of what made him great and made him stand out.

At the time, it was wild to see that sort of mystique that he built. At the time you wrote your book, that hadn't really come together yet because that was so soon after this story. I think the book was like a big part of building that posthumous mystique. But really, like while he was alive, it was very different in terms of, like you said, people had very strongly mixed feelings about him. Also because what he did was so musically unique and so emotionally intense that, like you said, it was a real almost visceral turnoff for a lot of people.

At the time, it was wild to see that sort of mystique that he built. At the time you wrote your book, that hadn't really come together yet because that was so soon after this story. I think the book was like a big part of building that posthumous mystique. But really, like while he was alive, it was very different in terms of, like you said, people had very strongly mixed feelings about him. Also because what he did was so musically unique and so emotionally intense that, like you said, it was a real almost visceral turnoff for a lot of people.

It kind of was. But you know, even then, I remember interviewing someone, a photographer and good friend of his name Mary Sear, who took the cover of the Grace album, and she said, even when, you know, when she knew him, there were there were always two Jeffs with her. There was regular Jeff, who was this kind of cut up class clown. He was a brilliant mimic. He could in between songs at Shane or even at his own concerts later he might suddenly do like a version of Kashmir sped up to forty five, you know, you know, and just not the whole thing. Just so he had that jokey side of him. And then there was what she called the mythological Jeff, and that was the guy who was obsessed with feelings of mortality and legacy and family burden and the record company, you know, record industry pressure, and you know, this kind of like darkness and not darkness but more of a heaviness. And he kind of went back and forth between him, so that mythic side was there already, you know, and I think he cultivated it in a way, you know. And romantis and that's a great word, it's the perfect word, because he really, he really had that in his He had this this view, this kind of very spiritual, intense view of music as this holy ritual. And now that sounds so corny just to say that, but he really did. He saw it as this calling, and not just because his father was Tim Buckley. He kind of saw it as his souvation or something and all that. How did you hear his music?

It kind of was. But you know, even then, I remember interviewing someone, a photographer and good friend of his name Mary Sear, who took the cover of the Grace album, and she said, even when, you know, when she knew him, there were there were always two Jeffs with her. There was regular Jeff, who was this kind of cut up class clown. He was a brilliant mimic. He could in between songs at Shane or even at his own concerts later he might suddenly do like a version of Kashmir sped up to forty five, you know, you know, and just not the whole thing. Just so he had that jokey side of him. And then there was what she called the mythological Jeff, and that was the guy who was obsessed with feelings of mortality and legacy and family burden and the record company, you know, record industry pressure, and you know, this kind of like darkness and not darkness but more of a heaviness. And he kind of went back and forth between him, so that mythic side was there already, you know, and I think he cultivated it in a way, you know. And romantis and that's a great word, it's the perfect word, because he really, he really had that in his He had this this view, this kind of very spiritual, intense view of music as this holy ritual. And now that sounds so corny just to say that, but he really did. He saw it as this calling, and not just because his father was Tim Buckley. He kind of saw it as his souvation or something and all that. How did you hear his music?

It was the Hollylijah cover. That was a song that was played on radio a lot. It was played on alternative radio a lot. Was that song, wow, the first song that ever made me like actively start sobbing, Like it was just like his performance was so emotional. I'd heard Halleluiah before because of Shrek, obviously famously going back to the roots, but I just never heard a song performed like that before, and it was that was the first song, And I probably heard it in middle school, and I think then later got more into grace and sort of that. I think just listening to a lot of like I was very into twenty seven club or and like that is, you know, very high school thing to become very infatuated with.

It was the Hollylijah cover. That was a song that was played on radio a lot. It was played on alternative radio a lot. Was that song, wow, the first song that ever made me like actively start sobbing, Like it was just like his performance was so emotional. I'd heard Halleluiah before because of Shrek, obviously famously going back to the roots, but I just never heard a song performed like that before, and it was that was the first song, And I probably heard it in middle school, and I think then later got more into grace and sort of that. I think just listening to a lot of like I was very into twenty seven club or and like that is, you know, very high school thing to become very infatuated with.

And it's one of the only, if you guys agree with me, one of the only covers of a Leonard Cohen song that's better than Leonard Cohen's cover.

And it's one of the only, if you guys agree with me, one of the only covers of a Leonard Cohen song that's better than Leonard Cohen's cover.

It's definitely any unique one in terms of the history of that song. Like it's really weird to even contemplate how obscure that song was before Jeff Buckley saying it that this song was just sitting there and nobody had any idea that it was a classic. Allen Light's book about that whole history of that song is so fascinating.

It's definitely any unique one in terms of the history of that song. Like it's really weird to even contemplate how obscure that song was before Jeff Buckley saying it that this song was just sitting there and nobody had any idea that it was a classic. Allen Light's book about that whole history of that song is so fascinating.

And he only heard it through the Lender Cone tribute album. It was John Cale right, the John Kyle version. That's how Jeff heard it. He didn't even I'm not sure he even knew a Lender Cohen version right away.

And he only heard it through the Lender Cone tribute album. It was John Cale right, the John Kyle version. That's how Jeff heard it. He didn't even I'm not sure he even knew a Lender Cohen version right away.

Yeah, but I knew when he died it was so striking. It was May ninety seven, and it seemed like his story was just beginning. So it seemed really because like Grace was an album that I don't know if you remember it this way, but for a lot of people, they thought of it as very promising album that it like that it wasn't his masterpiece. It was, you know, a statement from somebody who was about to develop and go different places.

Yeah, but I knew when he died it was so striking. It was May ninety seven, and it seemed like his story was just beginning. So it seemed really because like Grace was an album that I don't know if you remember it this way, but for a lot of people, they thought of it as very promising album that it like that it wasn't his masterpiece. It was, you know, a statement from somebody who was about to develop and go different places.

Right.

Right.

It didn't seem like one of those tortured artists eyes young kind of stories. It seemed like very wrong for his history and his potential.

It didn't seem like one of those tortured artists eyes young kind of stories. It seemed like very wrong for his history and his potential.

I mean, it was shocking as it should be.

I mean, it was shocking as it should be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think what you're getting at in a way was that what was so fascinating about Jeff was his incredible range of influences. And you hear it on Grace where he does these sort of kind of mystical almost Indian music things. Then he'll do a Nina Simone song, and he'll do Eternal Life, which was the closest thing to alternative rock on that album, and all those influences that we talked about earlier. He seemed like, right from the beginning, one of those legacy artists, and that's what I think intrigued him at Columbia Records to sign him. But he seemed like one of these rare people who would come along and would have a career, like a Bob Dylan or a Van Morrison or some of these other people he worshiped too, or Elvis Costello. These are all heroes of his who had these long careers that had hills and valleys commercially, but they would just kind of follow their muse and like, I'll make a record like this, maybe a record like that. And this record he was making, the second record that never finished. You know, it was part of that process. They weren't quite sure what it was they recorded with Tom Verlaine that didn't quite work out, and he was gonna do more of an indie ish kind of record, and it was part of that whole exploration we and it was exciting. You were like, where's this guy going to go? It didn't seem like he wasn't a one note artist, and so that was really added to the tragedy, like, oh man, this is someone we could we could have been listening to for decades like some of those other people, and they haven't cut short like that.

I think what you're getting at in a way was that what was so fascinating about Jeff was his incredible range of influences. And you hear it on Grace where he does these sort of kind of mystical almost Indian music things. Then he'll do a Nina Simone song, and he'll do Eternal Life, which was the closest thing to alternative rock on that album, and all those influences that we talked about earlier. He seemed like, right from the beginning, one of those legacy artists, and that's what I think intrigued him at Columbia Records to sign him. But he seemed like one of these rare people who would come along and would have a career, like a Bob Dylan or a Van Morrison or some of these other people he worshiped too, or Elvis Costello. These are all heroes of his who had these long careers that had hills and valleys commercially, but they would just kind of follow their muse and like, I'll make a record like this, maybe a record like that. And this record he was making, the second record that never finished. You know, it was part of that process. They weren't quite sure what it was they recorded with Tom Verlaine that didn't quite work out, and he was gonna do more of an indie ish kind of record, and it was part of that whole exploration we and it was exciting. You were like, where's this guy going to go? It didn't seem like he wasn't a one note artist, and so that was really added to the tragedy, like, oh man, this is someone we could we could have been listening to for decades like some of those other people, and they haven't cut short like that.

And of course Grace the album made five hundred Greatest Album's list and Grace's song makes the five hundre Gras Songs list. It actually replaced Hallylia, which was on the original list. I'm curious what your reaction was to seeing that song from the album make the list.

And of course Grace the album made five hundred Greatest Album's list and Grace's song makes the five hundre Gras Songs list. It actually replaced Hallylia, which was on the original list. I'm curious what your reaction was to seeing that song from the album make the list.

I was a little surprised that Grace would have been the one, but then again, I mean there are first of there are so many great ones. I would have almost thought last Goodbye because it was kind of the hit closest he had to a hit. I'm glad though, that it's Grace because it's one of his own original it's an original song. It's not just a cover, not just a cover. But it's great to see a song he co wrote with Gary Lucas the great guitar player on the list. And I think there's something about Grace the more. I thought about it on my way to this podcast that it's a great perfect song for him to be on this because it does it has that all in quality to it in the vocal, the way his voice soars up and down. It's quote unquote rock, but it's not really kind of traditional rock in a way. It's a great showcase for his voice. And of course it has like these references to drowning and all these things that came up that you will think back on now and are kind of wild. He has several songs that mentioned Nightmares by the Sea, and we're not intentional, but I think there's something about this about Grace that the song that actually does kind of encapsulate a lot of what he does. I think one of the things about the Grace record, and I'd like, curious hear you talk about this Rob too, it just even though it came out in ninety four, it doesn't feel like a nineties album. He's like one of those people, like like a Nick Drake or something where it's sort of timeless, and I think maybe that's part of the reason people still come back to it.

I was a little surprised that Grace would have been the one, but then again, I mean there are first of there are so many great ones. I would have almost thought last Goodbye because it was kind of the hit closest he had to a hit. I'm glad though, that it's Grace because it's one of his own original it's an original song. It's not just a cover, not just a cover. But it's great to see a song he co wrote with Gary Lucas the great guitar player on the list. And I think there's something about Grace the more. I thought about it on my way to this podcast that it's a great perfect song for him to be on this because it does it has that all in quality to it in the vocal, the way his voice soars up and down. It's quote unquote rock, but it's not really kind of traditional rock in a way. It's a great showcase for his voice. And of course it has like these references to drowning and all these things that came up that you will think back on now and are kind of wild. He has several songs that mentioned Nightmares by the Sea, and we're not intentional, but I think there's something about this about Grace that the song that actually does kind of encapsulate a lot of what he does. I think one of the things about the Grace record, and I'd like, curious hear you talk about this Rob too, it just even though it came out in ninety four, it doesn't feel like a nineties album. He's like one of those people, like like a Nick Drake or something where it's sort of timeless, and I think maybe that's part of the reason people still come back to it.

Yeah, Well, as you pointed out earlier, it was very out of step with its times in terms of the attitude toward music. It really was a kind of album that people, I think people especially in the rock world, felt, haven't we just escaped this era? Where like it was all focused on the artist's you know, sincerity and really meaning it as a you know, smokescreen for really inadequate skills, right, which is, you know, rightly wrong with the cliche people had about about a lot of eras that had preceded that end. Like you said, there was something corny about what he did. So it's really weird that his image and his audience in his lifetime was so different from what it became in the two thousands. He hated to use a cliche like ahead of his time, but there was no audience that existed. He had to really conjure an audience into existence with his music just because there wasn't really an audience for what he did. That there was no radio format you could play any of those songs.

Yeah, Well, as you pointed out earlier, it was very out of step with its times in terms of the attitude toward music. It really was a kind of album that people, I think people especially in the rock world, felt, haven't we just escaped this era? Where like it was all focused on the artist's you know, sincerity and really meaning it as a you know, smokescreen for really inadequate skills, right, which is, you know, rightly wrong with the cliche people had about about a lot of eras that had preceded that end. Like you said, there was something corny about what he did. So it's really weird that his image and his audience in his lifetime was so different from what it became in the two thousands. He hated to use a cliche like ahead of his time, but there was no audience that existed. He had to really conjure an audience into existence with his music just because there wasn't really an audience for what he did. That there was no radio format you could play any of those songs.

On, no live journal yet.

On, no live journal yet.

Yeah, there was no live journal yet. Yes, And the genre of the slightly overwrought type of Jeff Buckley fan like did not exist yet. He had to conjure that there's nobody you could put him on a double bill with Right. There's no festival where you could put him on between two other people. What he did for better for worse was very much unique and it didn't fit into any format. He didn't have a strong music critic following if I remember correctly. He had music critics obviously, you who were strongly in his camp, but there was an awful lot of you know, people heard pomposity and corniness in his music, which had a lot to do with the times.

Yeah, there was no live journal yet. Yes, And the genre of the slightly overwrought type of Jeff Buckley fan like did not exist yet. He had to conjure that there's nobody you could put him on a double bill with Right. There's no festival where you could put him on between two other people. What he did for better for worse was very much unique and it didn't fit into any format. He didn't have a strong music critic following if I remember correctly. He had music critics obviously, you who were strongly in his camp, but there was an awful lot of you know, people heard pomposity and corniness in his music, which had a lot to do with the times.

Right if he freaked out when his first EP came out live at Shane and it was reviewed in a newspaper I think it was New News Day, along with a Michael Bolton record, and like he was I think at work at the Grace album at the time. They had to actually stop working for the day because it was so upsetting to him that and they were lumped in with you know, basically like pretend white soul singers, and he was just like, oh my god. But there were people, you're right, I mean, there are people thought that he was he was too over the top vocally, which he could be, you know, in his way, because he had that skill like Freddie Mercury. Comparisons or whatever. But you know, you're right, I mean there really wasn't. I mean, Grace only sold when by the time he passed away, it only sold about one hundred and eighty thousand copies, which in the CD era, now that's a lot.

Right if he freaked out when his first EP came out live at Shane and it was reviewed in a newspaper I think it was New News Day, along with a Michael Bolton record, and like he was I think at work at the Grace album at the time. They had to actually stop working for the day because it was so upsetting to him that and they were lumped in with you know, basically like pretend white soul singers, and he was just like, oh my god. But there were people, you're right, I mean, there are people thought that he was he was too over the top vocally, which he could be, you know, in his way, because he had that skill like Freddie Mercury. Comparisons or whatever. But you know, you're right, I mean there really wasn't. I mean, Grace only sold when by the time he passed away, it only sold about one hundred and eighty thousand copies, which in the CD era, now that's a lot.

Wow.

Wow.

He sold one hundred and eight thousand in nineteen ninety seven issue. That wasn't a lot. It was it was a middling commercial success. But those one hundred and eighty thousand people or the bulk of them, just like loved that record, you know. I mean, I've been so many people like that was a life changing record. It kind of spoke to him and even the way it was made and recorded, I mean his voice was so well recorded and just like so clear and you could hear everything, and it just spoke to people a lot, and and you know, yeah, as you say, Rob, there really wasn't. There really wasn't a format for it at the time. You know, it's funny to see him if you can go on YouTube and you see like video interviews he did at the time with these like alternative local alternative stations and he's it's kind of funny.

He sold one hundred and eight thousand in nineteen ninety seven issue. That wasn't a lot. It was it was a middling commercial success. But those one hundred and eighty thousand people or the bulk of them, just like loved that record, you know. I mean, I've been so many people like that was a life changing record. It kind of spoke to him and even the way it was made and recorded, I mean his voice was so well recorded and just like so clear and you could hear everything, and it just spoke to people a lot, and and you know, yeah, as you say, Rob, there really wasn't. There really wasn't a format for it at the time. You know, it's funny to see him if you can go on YouTube and you see like video interviews he did at the time with these like alternative local alternative stations and he's it's kind of funny.

I remember seeing about one hundred and twenty minutes and I was like, why is this guy even on one hundred and three minutes. He didn't fit with anything they were talking about. He didn't have any of that sort of sense of humor or sensibility. It was just awkward and wrong, and it really felt like, you know, the record company really wanted him somewhere on MTV and there was literally no place to put him. VH one wasn't taking him, and you know they had to. They're like, sure, we'll put you on one hundred and twenty minutes. It was that kind of misfit sort of thing that he's now so universal in a very real sense, but he had to create that audience that would be his because that audience didn't. I think of that as a record where musicians being so much more into it than anybody else. And you know that there wasn't an airplay support for that album, There wasn't a press support, there wasn't really an industry support. But actual musicians could hear what he was doing and they're really the only ones.

I remember seeing about one hundred and twenty minutes and I was like, why is this guy even on one hundred and three minutes. He didn't fit with anything they were talking about. He didn't have any of that sort of sense of humor or sensibility. It was just awkward and wrong, and it really felt like, you know, the record company really wanted him somewhere on MTV and there was literally no place to put him. VH one wasn't taking him, and you know they had to. They're like, sure, we'll put you on one hundred and twenty minutes. It was that kind of misfit sort of thing that he's now so universal in a very real sense, but he had to create that audience that would be his because that audience didn't. I think of that as a record where musicians being so much more into it than anybody else. And you know that there wasn't an airplay support for that album, There wasn't a press support, there wasn't really an industry support. But actual musicians could hear what he was doing and they're really the only ones.

And you see that in the impact that the people have come since him who evoke him on more or another, whether it's Coldplay or Muse or you can make a whole list of like Jeff Buckley ish kind of singers. That kind of speaks to his legacy as well, that he was so highly regarded. I remember interviewing Chris Martin from Coldplay right after, not long after he died, and Chris actually like, like the second album Sketches, that's just from My Sweetheart the Drunk better than Grace. He was like, which I thought it was interesting. He was really into him, but he thought that record was better. But I think you see his Jeff's legacy in that way. It's it's not not necessarily measured commercially, but in the way he's endured as kind of an influence and his sort of mythical romantic figure. Was he the last mythical romantic rock act? To throw that out there, maybe, yeah, I don't know Jack White, I mean, I don't know.

And you see that in the impact that the people have come since him who evoke him on more or another, whether it's Coldplay or Muse or you can make a whole list of like Jeff Buckley ish kind of singers. That kind of speaks to his legacy as well, that he was so highly regarded. I remember interviewing Chris Martin from Coldplay right after, not long after he died, and Chris actually like, like the second album Sketches, that's just from My Sweetheart the Drunk better than Grace. He was like, which I thought it was interesting. He was really into him, but he thought that record was better. But I think you see his Jeff's legacy in that way. It's it's not not necessarily measured commercially, but in the way he's endured as kind of an influence and his sort of mythical romantic figure. Was he the last mythical romantic rock act? To throw that out there, maybe, yeah, I don't know Jack White, I mean, I don't know.

Who there's a Roman, but it's but it's very different part of it. I mean something about Jeff Bucke, he was not like, he did not aspire to ordinary dudeness, like in a way that male rock stars, especially if that era, were supposed to be very like, but that he had that cultivated that kind of mystical or you know, to detract her pseudomistical sort of or like.

Who there's a Roman, but it's but it's very different part of it. I mean something about Jeff Bucke, he was not like, he did not aspire to ordinary dudeness, like in a way that male rock stars, especially if that era, were supposed to be very like, but that he had that cultivated that kind of mystical or you know, to detract her pseudomistical sort of or like.

A male cabaret star, yeah, cabaret singer in a way.

A male cabaret star, yeah, cabaret singer in a way.

He was remote and mysterious emotionally in a way that was very dramatic.

He was remote and mysterious emotionally in a way that was very dramatic.

Yes, yes, I mean obvious. Like the song Grace itself, it's just so it's just about leaving a girl in an air like, you know, like an airport.

Yes, yes, I mean obvious. Like the song Grace itself, it's just so it's just about leaving a girl in an air like, you know, like an airport.

You would not It's like and the pain I leave behind and I'm drowning, and it's just like, you know, that was the mythical jest kicking in completely. It's like, you know, the kind of the torture, teen, angsty side of him that I think, you know, people also relate to.

You would not It's like and the pain I leave behind and I'm drowning, and it's just like, you know, that was the mythical jest kicking in completely. It's like, you know, the kind of the torture, teen, angsty side of him that I think, you know, people also relate to.

It blows my mind that that was the first song that made you cry on the radio. Yeah.

It blows my mind that that was the first song that made you cry on the radio. Yeah.

No, I literally was sobby in my mom's car. I was just like, this is so much. My mom was looking over at me like I was like eleven or twelve, and I was just like, this is intense.

No, I literally was sobby in my mom's car. I was just like, this is so much. My mom was looking over at me like I was like eleven or twelve, and I was just like, this is intense.

And also, Hallelujah had a whole life after nine to eleven? Was this was this? It might have been.

And also, Hallelujah had a whole life after nine to eleven? Was this was this? It might have been.

It was definitely post nine eleven.

It was definitely post nine eleven.

Okay, because there were there were people were making home who were making videos of that site, and well, YouTube didn't exist yet. I don't know where I saw them, but people would make videos of rescue workers and put that music to it and put it up somewhere. And that was really the beginning of the Jeff hal Lujah version really kicking in. Because it wasn't a big hit or anything when he was alive. It wasn't a single or anything, but it was a slow build thing. And I remember, I remember that post nine to eleven, and it was it was chillingly perfect, you know, for that for that footage.

Okay, because there were there were people were making home who were making videos of that site, and well, YouTube didn't exist yet. I don't know where I saw them, but people would make videos of rescue workers and put that music to it and put it up somewhere. And that was really the beginning of the Jeff hal Lujah version really kicking in. Because it wasn't a big hit or anything when he was alive. It wasn't a single or anything, but it was a slow build thing. And I remember, I remember that post nine to eleven, and it was it was chillingly perfect, you know, for that for that footage.

Thank you so much for joining us today, David.

Thank you so much for joining us today, David.

Great to be here, guys, Thank you so much.

Great to be here, guys, Thank you so much.

A real pleasure to talk this music with you.

A real pleasure to talk this music with you.

It was a blast with both of you.

It was a blast with both of you.

Get we really wrote the book. Thanks.

Get we really wrote the book. Thanks.

Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Written hosted by Me.

Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Written hosted by Me.

Britney spanos In, Me Rob Sheffield.

Britney spanos In, Me Rob Sheffield.

Executive produced by Gus Winner, Jason Fine, Alex Dale, and Christian Horne, and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Seiler. Thanks for watching, Thanks for listening.

Executive produced by Gus Winner, Jason Fine, Alex Dale, and Christian Horne, and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Seiler. Thanks for watching, Thanks for listening.