With Christmas just around the corner, many of us are getting cracking on our Christmas shopping and the owner of Darwin's largest shopping center, Casarina Square, and also the CEO of Sentinel Property Group, Warren Ebbitt.

With Christmas just around the corner, many of us are getting cracking on our Christmas shopping and the owner of Darwin's largest shopping center, Casarina Square, and also the CEO of Sentinel Property Group, Warren Ebbitt.

Joins me in the studio. Good morning to you, Warren.

Joins me in the studio. Good morning to you, Warren.

Good morning Katie. Another beautiful day in Darwin.

Good morning Katie. Another beautiful day in Darwin.

It is nice.

It is nice.

We've had a bit of overcast weather, which is always nice, cool things down slightly.

We've had a bit of overcast weather, which is always nice, cool things down slightly.

Every day's beautiful day and we don't care what it.

Every day's beautiful day and we don't care what it.

Is now, Warren.

Is now, Warren.

Look, there has been I know there's been massive efforts by a Sentinel Property Group at Casuarina in an effort to really try to keep people safe when they head out there and to try to minimize some of the anti social behavior and crime that you've had to deal with. How are things going out there from your perspective at the moment.

Look, there has been I know there's been massive efforts by a Sentinel Property Group at Casuarina in an effort to really try to keep people safe when they head out there and to try to minimize some of the anti social behavior and crime that you've had to deal with. How are things going out there from your perspective at the moment.

Every day's a new day, Katie. You know we spend over two and a half million on security. According to the Property Council, the average spend on major shopping centers in Queensland is seven dollars per square meter. We spend forty two, so we spend six times a mount on security. In Darwin as they do in Queensland, so a terrific number. Now our crime everywhere is getting worse, and we know in Queensland particularly towns, well it's terrible, but it is worse here and people I talk to our center manager and banks, it's the worse they've seen it.

Every day's a new day, Katie. You know we spend over two and a half million on security. According to the Property Council, the average spend on major shopping centers in Queensland is seven dollars per square meter. We spend forty two, so we spend six times a mount on security. In Darwin as they do in Queensland, so a terrific number. Now our crime everywhere is getting worse, and we know in Queensland particularly towns, well it's terrible, but it is worse here and people I talk to our center manager and banks, it's the worse they've seen it.

What do they attribute that to? What are they saying to you?

What do they attribute that to? What are they saying to you?

Well, you get a lot of repeat offenders and they don't spend enough time in jail. And I know they might say that jail doesn't change people, but when they're locked in chart and they're not doing crime, so that's one positive thing. I think it does come back to education. A lot of the children just don't know any better. You know, their parents aren't doing you know, I'm getting older now, I know we got into a kickup the bum or something and you can't chastise children. You've just got to let them burn the house down and give them another box of matches. Well, they're just out of control. So it's a complete reset and it's not something at Casina Square we can change. Hopefully the governments will do something soon, but it's a we do the best. We put on another We have a canine patrols. We've put on another another two dogs have we're now starting to try and step that up and it's yeah, it's not enjoyable, but every man, woman, child in Darwin goes to catherinea square five point one times a month and most of the time it's good, but it's yeah, it's a challenge for us.

Well, you get a lot of repeat offenders and they don't spend enough time in jail. And I know they might say that jail doesn't change people, but when they're locked in chart and they're not doing crime, so that's one positive thing. I think it does come back to education. A lot of the children just don't know any better. You know, their parents aren't doing you know, I'm getting older now, I know we got into a kickup the bum or something and you can't chastise children. You've just got to let them burn the house down and give them another box of matches. Well, they're just out of control. So it's a complete reset and it's not something at Casina Square we can change. Hopefully the governments will do something soon, but it's a we do the best. We put on another We have a canine patrols. We've put on another another two dogs have we're now starting to try and step that up and it's yeah, it's not enjoyable, but every man, woman, child in Darwin goes to catherinea square five point one times a month and most of the time it's good, but it's yeah, it's a challenge for us.

So in terms of those dog patrols, by the sounds of it, you're increasing those.

So in terms of those dog patrols, by the sounds of it, you're increasing those.

Is that ahead of Christmas? Ahead of the Christmas?

Is that ahead of Christmas? Ahead of the Christmas?

Certainly we've had one started yesterday, a very friendly day berman. His teeth do look extra sharp and we have a German shepherd and he's come up from Sydney for the Christmas holidays. Apparently the people who have trained him have sat over twenty up to Darwin in the last twelve months. For Wow, different different things, so.

Certainly we've had one started yesterday, a very friendly day berman. His teeth do look extra sharp and we have a German shepherd and he's come up from Sydney for the Christmas holidays. Apparently the people who have trained him have sat over twenty up to Darwin in the last twelve months. For Wow, different different things, so.

Different for different locations.

Different for different locations.

Yes, yes, goodness may I mean that just shows you that there are a lot of businesses, a lot of different areas around the Northern Territory that are grappling with this issue of crime. Warren weapons still an issue around the complex, or have police wanting and those other security patrols and that kind of thing seen a reduction.

Yes, yes, goodness may I mean that just shows you that there are a lot of businesses, a lot of different areas around the Northern Territory that are grappling with this issue of crime. Warren weapons still an issue around the complex, or have police wanting and those other security patrols and that kind of thing seen a reduction.

I can't say for sure, Katie, but I haven't heard any incidents in the last week. I'm not saying there isn't any. I take it all all the reports, you know, because there's dozens every day just of alcoholism and those types of things. And we're working on the alcohol side with a new design for bottle shops where you can't contact you can't contact any staff, you won't be able to obtain any any anything at all without having your identification verified, and a number of number of other issues just to try and cut down crime completely bottle shop so that there's a lot of areas that we're working on, and that where we're with the anti government. We've had a couple of meetings with the with the Chief Medicine. She's been very supportive of that. And while we're targeting getting that in Casina Square first, hopefully it's something that we could roll out across the whole.

I can't say for sure, Katie, but I haven't heard any incidents in the last week. I'm not saying there isn't any. I take it all all the reports, you know, because there's dozens every day just of alcoholism and those types of things. And we're working on the alcohol side with a new design for bottle shops where you can't contact you can't contact any staff, you won't be able to obtain any any anything at all without having your identification verified, and a number of number of other issues just to try and cut down crime completely bottle shop so that there's a lot of areas that we're working on, and that where we're with the anti government. We've had a couple of meetings with the with the Chief Medicine. She's been very supportive of that. And while we're targeting getting that in Casina Square first, hopefully it's something that we could roll out across the whole.

Of the NT SO new designs for bottle shops.

Of the NT SO new designs for bottle shops.

I mean, how quickly are you expecting that to happen at Casarina Square.

I mean, how quickly are you expecting that to happen at Casarina Square.

I think it probably won't be for twelve months because this is a completely completely new new concept, so we have to test it a bit and just make sure it gets right now. We don't want a retrograde step where you've got everything behind steel mesh. That's not what we're after. Where I actually got the idea from America because there's a very large pharmacy chain called Walgreens, and they're doing this in a in Chicago.

I think it probably won't be for twelve months because this is a completely completely new new concept, so we have to test it a bit and just make sure it gets right now. We don't want a retrograde step where you've got everything behind steel mesh. That's not what we're after. Where I actually got the idea from America because there's a very large pharmacy chain called Walgreens, and they're doing this in a in Chicago.

And so how does it kind of look. You've got to you know, you still go in to purchase.

And so how does it kind of look. You've got to you know, you still go in to purchase.

You should just go up.

You should just go up.

You have a few massive, massive prison prisons that are all bat licked, so there's a bit of theater with it. You scan your ID to make sure I'm not sure that the acronym what is to make sure you're the B yeah, yeah, to make sure you're not banned from perching alcohol, make sure the right aides. There'll have to be some face scanning to make sure that that is your is your license. That's before you can select, and then you can look at all the hundreds of different types and then you can select which one you want and you'll go down the back and it'll be packaged up for you and pay with the credit cards. So you can't steal it. You can't. You can't get to any staff. There will still be staff there, so if you want to ask about a particular wine or something, we're not trying to not have staff there. Yeah, we want it so that it doesn't matter what happens. The staff can never be attacked, because you know it's not only a lot of places think about the theft of their goods, but you know, we want to make sure that staff can't get attacked. And if people if you can't get the troublemakers there, they'll move on somewhere.

You have a few massive, massive prison prisons that are all bat licked, so there's a bit of theater with it. You scan your ID to make sure I'm not sure that the acronym what is to make sure you're the B yeah, yeah, to make sure you're not banned from perching alcohol, make sure the right aides. There'll have to be some face scanning to make sure that that is your is your license. That's before you can select, and then you can look at all the hundreds of different types and then you can select which one you want and you'll go down the back and it'll be packaged up for you and pay with the credit cards. So you can't steal it. You can't. You can't get to any staff. There will still be staff there, so if you want to ask about a particular wine or something, we're not trying to not have staff there. Yeah, we want it so that it doesn't matter what happens. The staff can never be attacked, because you know it's not only a lot of places think about the theft of their goods, but you know, we want to make sure that staff can't get attacked. And if people if you can't get the troublemakers there, they'll move on somewhere.

And so Warren, would that be with the existing bottle shops that are already there, or would there be additional body shops up bottle shops to set up this way.

And so Warren, would that be with the existing bottle shops that are already there, or would there be additional body shops up bottle shops to set up this way.

I don't think we're in a position to force existing bottle shops to spend a lot of money, And it'll be part of any new leases that come up. We will we will enforce that. Now while it certainly will cost more money, you'll you will be able to cut back on security staff. So you know, one of the options that some people want it was just to get rid of the bottle shops all together, which I know when we come up, we'll do our shopping at Coal's and then we go to liquorand and you know, ninety ninety well everywhere else it's ninety nine percent, or honest I think here it's ninety five percent or whatever it is. But you know, why should most people have to go make another trip? You know, I don't think we should punish the average shopper. So the alternative is to make it one hundred percent, you know, not just fifty percent safe, but one hundred percent safe. So you know, if you intend on causing trouble at a bottle shop or stealing, then it'll be no good coming to casarin A Square. You'll have to go.

I don't think we're in a position to force existing bottle shops to spend a lot of money, And it'll be part of any new leases that come up. We will we will enforce that. Now while it certainly will cost more money, you'll you will be able to cut back on security staff. So you know, one of the options that some people want it was just to get rid of the bottle shops all together, which I know when we come up, we'll do our shopping at Coal's and then we go to liquorand and you know, ninety ninety well everywhere else it's ninety nine percent, or honest I think here it's ninety five percent or whatever it is. But you know, why should most people have to go make another trip? You know, I don't think we should punish the average shopper. So the alternative is to make it one hundred percent, you know, not just fifty percent safe, but one hundred percent safe. So you know, if you intend on causing trouble at a bottle shop or stealing, then it'll be no good coming to casarin A Square. You'll have to go.

Somewhere else, which I think is fair enough.

Somewhere else, which I think is fair enough.

You know, you've got to take measures to try to keep everybody safe.

You know, you've got to take measures to try to keep everybody safe.

I do want to ask you.

I do want to ask you.

We know that there has been well I've noticed myself when I've been out there at Casuarina.

We know that there has been well I've noticed myself when I've been out there at Casuarina.

There's a couple of.

There's a couple of.

Different things that some of the stores out there are doing to try to reduce that anti social behavior. I know that one that's got two entrances, it's just got one entrance open. Now I've noticed that that Mimco is no longer operating in one of those you know, one of the major sort of corridors where there's various shops.

Different things that some of the stores out there are doing to try to reduce that anti social behavior. I know that one that's got two entrances, it's just got one entrance open. Now I've noticed that that Mimco is no longer operating in one of those you know, one of the major sort of corridors where there's various shops.

Is that something like?

Is that something like?

Is that something that you know that you guys as the owners are concerned about that. You have got a situation where where some of those retail outlets maybe aren't real comfortable with some of the behavior that's going on one.

Is that something that you know that you guys as the owners are concerned about that. You have got a situation where where some of those retail outlets maybe aren't real comfortable with some of the behavior that's going on one.

Hundred percent, Katie. You know the situation with Mimco, because they are in a kiosk what you call a pop up yep, and you only had one person. Someone would talk to the to the to the worker, keep them talking, and then people would steal something behind. Now we tried to get them to go into a shop where you didn't have that situations, but they just had enough and want to get out of there. So certainly it is a major concern. Now I can't talk about it today, but there is a particular tenant we have in the center that is a bit of a drawer card for a lot of trouble makers. Now we have issued with them of a notice of non renewal next year and they are a very major national tenant, so they will no longer be in that position next year. So you get people come in there and start queuing up of the morning and then they start causing trouble then that flows on to other tenants. So we're taking serious measures and we'll do whatever we can to improve it. And I know speaking to some of the shopkeepers. We had one particular new tenant there a couple of months ago and they had problem with issues out the front, so we shifted the seeding from there so we didn't have the loitering. So we'll do whatever we can to help each individual tenant and help the overall center.

Hundred percent, Katie. You know the situation with Mimco, because they are in a kiosk what you call a pop up yep, and you only had one person. Someone would talk to the to the to the worker, keep them talking, and then people would steal something behind. Now we tried to get them to go into a shop where you didn't have that situations, but they just had enough and want to get out of there. So certainly it is a major concern. Now I can't talk about it today, but there is a particular tenant we have in the center that is a bit of a drawer card for a lot of trouble makers. Now we have issued with them of a notice of non renewal next year and they are a very major national tenant, so they will no longer be in that position next year. So you get people come in there and start queuing up of the morning and then they start causing trouble then that flows on to other tenants. So we're taking serious measures and we'll do whatever we can to improve it. And I know speaking to some of the shopkeepers. We had one particular new tenant there a couple of months ago and they had problem with issues out the front, so we shifted the seeding from there so we didn't have the loitering. So we'll do whatever we can to help each individual tenant and help the overall center.

Or on what's happening with the quarter.

Or on what's happening with the quarter.

We have big plans to that, Katie. I'm glad you asked. We are looking at at enclosing an air condition the entire quarter.

We have big plans to that, Katie. I'm glad you asked. We are looking at at enclosing an air condition the entire quarter.

Right.

Right.

We are making good headway with putting in a micro brewery. Now, I know there'll be people who don't like drinking up here. I'm yet to need a person up here in Darwin who doesn't like drinking, but I'm sure there's one here side.

We are making good headway with putting in a micro brewery. Now, I know there'll be people who don't like drinking up here. I'm yet to need a person up here in Darwin who doesn't like drinking, but I'm sure there's one here side.

Well, look, we always do it responsibly, Warren.

Well, look, we always do it responsibly, Warren.

So you know they are from Western Australia and they have a four or five micro breweries there and they're about family food and beverage. They're not they're not nightclubby. It's we've visited the operations in Perth and it's very, very impressive. So we hope to finalize an agreement with them by Christmas and that will be on the Trail Road frontage, so there'll be some big changes there, and as I say, we'll e condition the whole quarter. The previous owners spent tens of millions on doing the quarter and it would be fine if it was eighteen degrees twenty degrees most days. Unfortunately it's not, so I don't think it hasn't ever really worked. So we're going to spend some money on there completely change it, and that's probably going to take I would think twelve to eighteen months. We've got plans here to make major changes there. Kadia Warren.

So you know they are from Western Australia and they have a four or five micro breweries there and they're about family food and beverage. They're not they're not nightclubby. It's we've visited the operations in Perth and it's very, very impressive. So we hope to finalize an agreement with them by Christmas and that will be on the Trail Road frontage, so there'll be some big changes there, and as I say, we'll e condition the whole quarter. The previous owners spent tens of millions on doing the quarter and it would be fine if it was eighteen degrees twenty degrees most days. Unfortunately it's not, so I don't think it hasn't ever really worked. So we're going to spend some money on there completely change it, and that's probably going to take I would think twelve to eighteen months. We've got plans here to make major changes there. Kadia Warren.

Before I let you go, I do want to ask you a little bit more about some of Sentinel's plans when it comes to housing in the Northern Territory. I know that you and I have spoken about this before. What plans are underway and what exactly is happening from your perspective.

Before I let you go, I do want to ask you a little bit more about some of Sentinel's plans when it comes to housing in the Northern Territory. I know that you and I have spoken about this before. What plans are underway and what exactly is happening from your perspective.

Katie Well, I want to make it clear that we're not home builders. We don't do that and we'd rather not. That's not our business. But you know we have Centinel's got over six hundred million invested in the Northern Territory primary Darwin, so we're a major investor here and one of the attractions to us was we've got one point five billion invested Mackai North, so we're very long. We're the largest investor in Northern Australia, a private investor. So the plans of the Northern Territory government to get the economy from twenty six billion in twenty twenty to forty billion in two thousand and thirty and to get and to add thirty five five thousand new jobs between twenty twenty two I think it was and twenty and thirty. Now every new job creates has a multiply three to five our partner children, whatever it is. So thirty five thousand jobs is one hundred and thirty one hundred and fifty thousand people. Now you need fifty sixty thousand new homes for that, which means every working day for the next seven years you must build forty homes. I think most people would say that's not happening.

Katie Well, I want to make it clear that we're not home builders. We don't do that and we'd rather not. That's not our business. But you know we have Centinel's got over six hundred million invested in the Northern Territory primary Darwin, so we're a major investor here and one of the attractions to us was we've got one point five billion invested Mackai North, so we're very long. We're the largest investor in Northern Australia, a private investor. So the plans of the Northern Territory government to get the economy from twenty six billion in twenty twenty to forty billion in two thousand and thirty and to get and to add thirty five five thousand new jobs between twenty twenty two I think it was and twenty and thirty. Now every new job creates has a multiply three to five our partner children, whatever it is. So thirty five thousand jobs is one hundred and thirty one hundred and fifty thousand people. Now you need fifty sixty thousand new homes for that, which means every working day for the next seven years you must build forty homes. I think most people would say that's not happening.

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

And no chance in the world and across Australia when we have unemployment of three point seven percent. I think pretty much every person who wants a job has got a job. So we have to do something. And I've spoken to other builders here. They're all busy doing the normal methods, so there's no reason for them to change. But something has to give. So we've got a business overseas doing modular homes and the federal government has got billions of dollars to put into housing. Now, if they were to decide to give you a few hundred million for you to build some more homes, you would have to take my staff, other people's staff. So you could pay people more to work for you because of what you've got off the government. You could pay more for materials. But between all of us, there's no more capacity. We haven't created any more homes. You might have delivered what the government want, but we have delivered less. So we have to do something.

And no chance in the world and across Australia when we have unemployment of three point seven percent. I think pretty much every person who wants a job has got a job. So we have to do something. And I've spoken to other builders here. They're all busy doing the normal methods, so there's no reason for them to change. But something has to give. So we've got a business overseas doing modular homes and the federal government has got billions of dollars to put into housing. Now, if they were to decide to give you a few hundred million for you to build some more homes, you would have to take my staff, other people's staff. So you could pay people more to work for you because of what you've got off the government. You could pay more for materials. But between all of us, there's no more capacity. We haven't created any more homes. You might have delivered what the government want, but we have delivered less. So we have to do something.

And so you want to go down the modular homes path.

And so you want to go down the modular homes path.

I have to know, Katie, I don't want to, but I don't think there's any other choice. Yeah, right, you know these homes where now?

I have to know, Katie, I don't want to, but I don't think there's any other choice. Yeah, right, you know these homes where now?

Yeah, I mean how many could you build? Well, how many could you get moving in the northern territory over a short period.

Yeah, I mean how many could you build? Well, how many could you get moving in the northern territory over a short period.

How many do you want?

How many do you want?

I don't know.

I don't know.

We can do a few hundred years, absolutely, no problem watching I guess the.

We can do a few hundred years, absolutely, no problem watching I guess the.

Problem always is, or one of the things that has been raised over the years, is that you need housing that's purpose fit, particularly if it's going out to remote communities for example. I mean, is that something that like that you guys see as being an issue or would you be able to do it purpose fit?

Problem always is, or one of the things that has been raised over the years, is that you need housing that's purpose fit, particularly if it's going out to remote communities for example. I mean, is that something that like that you guys see as being an issue or would you be able to do it purpose fit?

These are built to eight on the Richter scale. Now, the earthquake that demolished Morocco a couple of months go, that was a six point seven. The earthquake that demolished christ Church was a twenty sixteen some time ago, that was six point seven. These are built to eight, so they're almost indestructible. They're built out a structural steel, not the thin steel framing that you might see in some places.

These are built to eight on the Richter scale. Now, the earthquake that demolished Morocco a couple of months go, that was a six point seven. The earthquake that demolished christ Church was a twenty sixteen some time ago, that was six point seven. These are built to eight, so they're almost indestructible. They're built out a structural steel, not the thin steel framing that you might see in some places.

Here.

Here.

As part of the strength testing, there's star pickets that are hurled at these at five hundred kilomes an hour to see how they stand up in the cyclone. I wouldn't say they're indestructible. If you've got a big enough bulldaers you could knock them over. But yeah, these are you know they have twenty mili compressed five ro or compressed cement. You can't break through that with sledgehammers.

As part of the strength testing, there's star pickets that are hurled at these at five hundred kilomes an hour to see how they stand up in the cyclone. I wouldn't say they're indestructible. If you've got a big enough bulldaers you could knock them over. But yeah, these are you know they have twenty mili compressed five ro or compressed cement. You can't break through that with sledgehammers.

And so Warren, is this something that you're in talks with the Northern Territory Government.

And so Warren, is this something that you're in talks with the Northern Territory Government.

About yep Katie with this, the Northern Territory Government have been fantastic. Just before last Christmas, the Northern Terreft Government has a very good relationship Vietnam. So as one of the trips over there, Nicole Manison, they Chief Minister her Sean Drabs and some very senior people from the Northern Territory Government were able to visit the factory while they're over there. Until you see, you cannot believe the quality and the work conditions its own and managed by Australians, are very good working conditions and the quality is far superior. So we're not talking about building something. These aren't cheap, but they are far superior quality to anything you'll find here. They're insulated on six side, four walls, roof ceiling, double glazed windows. And then also early this year January of February, some senior people from Dipple were over in Vietnam and they went to the factory as well, and they couldn't believe the quality. They have a QR code, so you can click on that and you'll see who made it, when it was made, when materials were sourced, absolutely everything. These are far superior to anything that we produce here.

About yep Katie with this, the Northern Territory Government have been fantastic. Just before last Christmas, the Northern Terreft Government has a very good relationship Vietnam. So as one of the trips over there, Nicole Manison, they Chief Minister her Sean Drabs and some very senior people from the Northern Territory Government were able to visit the factory while they're over there. Until you see, you cannot believe the quality and the work conditions its own and managed by Australians, are very good working conditions and the quality is far superior. So we're not talking about building something. These aren't cheap, but they are far superior quality to anything you'll find here. They're insulated on six side, four walls, roof ceiling, double glazed windows. And then also early this year January of February, some senior people from Dipple were over in Vietnam and they went to the factory as well, and they couldn't believe the quality. They have a QR code, so you can click on that and you'll see who made it, when it was made, when materials were sourced, absolutely everything. These are far superior to anything that we produce here.

Well, Warren, we have unfortunately run out of time, but I think it's a really interesting discussion to have you know about those modular homes, so I no doubt that it is going to be something that will continue to talk about. As always, Warren Ebbittt, the CEO of Sentinel Property Group and the owners of Casarina Square, we appreciate you coming into the studio when you're in town.

Well, Warren, we have unfortunately run out of time, but I think it's a really interesting discussion to have you know about those modular homes, so I no doubt that it is going to be something that will continue to talk about. As always, Warren Ebbittt, the CEO of Sentinel Property Group and the owners of Casarina Square, we appreciate you coming into the studio when you're in town.

Thank you, Thanks Courtie, look forward to seeing you again soon.

Thank you, Thanks Courtie, look forward to seeing you again soon.

Thank you.

Thank you.