Now, there's always plenty to discuss in here, and yesterday we heard from the Housing Minister about the government unveiling its public housing reforms to tackle crime and anti social behavior, with rent areas currently sitting at thirty nine million dollars now. The reforms include fast tracking pathways to eviction, a review of visitor management and the red card policy, as well as giving greater powers to public housing safety offices. The Minister for Housing, Steve Edgington, had said that a major overhaul is needed to ensure that problem tenants face consequences and that the government would be looking to claw back the thirty nine million dollars. Now. I was just having a look as well at the public housing wait times, I mean eight to ten years in many cases for some of these public housing properties. Now joining me in the studio to talk more about this is MT Shelters CEO Annie Taylor. Good morning to you.

Now, there's always plenty to discuss in here, and yesterday we heard from the Housing Minister about the government unveiling its public housing reforms to tackle crime and anti social behavior, with rent areas currently sitting at thirty nine million dollars now. The reforms include fast tracking pathways to eviction, a review of visitor management and the red card policy, as well as giving greater powers to public housing safety offices. The Minister for Housing, Steve Edgington, had said that a major overhaul is needed to ensure that problem tenants face consequences and that the government would be looking to claw back the thirty nine million dollars. Now. I was just having a look as well at the public housing wait times, I mean eight to ten years in many cases for some of these public housing properties. Now joining me in the studio to talk more about this is MT Shelters CEO Annie Taylor. Good morning to you.

Annie, Thank good morning, Thanks for having me, lovely.

Annie, Thank good morning, Thanks for having me, lovely.

To have you in this studio. Thank you for your time. Now, Annie, what was your reaction to the reforms that were announced by the Housing Minister.

To have you in this studio. Thank you for your time. Now, Annie, what was your reaction to the reforms that were announced by the Housing Minister.

We'll look a situation where a tenant has significant levels of debt to the department. It's not good for the department, but it's not good for the tenant or the family at the core of this either, and many of those tenants would be dealing with some quiet complex issues here. And public housing tenants, like any of us, don't want to live in a neighborhood that isn't thriving. We all want to live in a thriving community. So I think rather than taking a punitive response, the immediate response should be ensuring that everyone is connected up to a tendancy support program and making sure we have some early intervention as well when it comes to tenancy support programs.

We'll look a situation where a tenant has significant levels of debt to the department. It's not good for the department, but it's not good for the tenant or the family at the core of this either, and many of those tenants would be dealing with some quiet complex issues here. And public housing tenants, like any of us, don't want to live in a neighborhood that isn't thriving. We all want to live in a thriving community. So I think rather than taking a punitive response, the immediate response should be ensuring that everyone is connected up to a tendancy support program and making sure we have some early intervention as well when it comes to tenancy support programs.

So in terms of you know, paying your rent, is it something like I was sort of surprised that, And look, maybe I've got the wrong view, but I was kind of surprised that in some instances it's maybe not set up to align with either you know, to come out like a out of you know, a direct debit or like a sin to link payment or to come out so that it happens and then you're not sort of worrying about it after the fact.

So in terms of you know, paying your rent, is it something like I was sort of surprised that, And look, maybe I've got the wrong view, but I was kind of surprised that in some instances it's maybe not set up to align with either you know, to come out like a out of you know, a direct debit or like a sin to link payment or to come out so that it happens and then you're not sort of worrying about it after the fact.

Yeah, look, I think it can be. And again, it kind of depends on how it's set up. But it's more of that big picture thinking around budgeting and financial counseling, which is so important for people. You know. I think for me, you know, I wake up in the morning. I don't have too much to think about in my life. It's just getting myself to work. But when you've got someone who might have a big family, they've also got visitors who are at the property, there's maybe some complexities there around different areas of life, maybe domestic family violence. You've got so much going on that I think remembering to pay rent on time, or making sure that you're budgeting adequately to leave money for rent can be a really challenging thing. Some people we hear from our stakeholders, particularly in the remote space, Aboriginal housing and Tea our fellow peaks as some people are not even aware that they have significant levels of rental debt, which is quite shocking.

Yeah, look, I think it can be. And again, it kind of depends on how it's set up. But it's more of that big picture thinking around budgeting and financial counseling, which is so important for people. You know. I think for me, you know, I wake up in the morning. I don't have too much to think about in my life. It's just getting myself to work. But when you've got someone who might have a big family, they've also got visitors who are at the property, there's maybe some complexities there around different areas of life, maybe domestic family violence. You've got so much going on that I think remembering to pay rent on time, or making sure that you're budgeting adequately to leave money for rent can be a really challenging thing. Some people we hear from our stakeholders, particularly in the remote space, Aboriginal housing and Tea our fellow peaks as some people are not even aware that they have significant levels of rental debt, which is quite shocking.

Yeah, like again, I'm surprised that people aren't aware of that. Are their notices sent out? Does the department notify people when they are like to pay?

Yeah, like again, I'm surprised that people aren't aware of that. Are their notices sent out? Does the department notify people when they are like to pay?

Yeah, I believe so. But again it's complexities with human movement, people moving around. You know, you've got people who speak multiple languages, so there might be some issues with understanding that, so I think there's probably multiple factors at play there, But again, it's really about those referrals to tenancy support programs early in the piece, rather than letting these tenants get into a situation where they do have significant kind of demerit points against them all significant levels of rental arrears. And the thing is, we haven't been historically funded sufficiently in the NT to have tenancy support programs that are funded adequately. And the good news is that we do have homelessness funding which is coming online in the NT and should be hitting the ground quite soon in Dune this year, which will mean that we can adequately fund those programs. But it's important that those referrals are made early rather than at the crisis point when it's kind of too late.

Yeah, I believe so. But again it's complexities with human movement, people moving around. You know, you've got people who speak multiple languages, so there might be some issues with understanding that, so I think there's probably multiple factors at play there, But again, it's really about those referrals to tenancy support programs early in the piece, rather than letting these tenants get into a situation where they do have significant kind of demerit points against them all significant levels of rental arrears. And the thing is, we haven't been historically funded sufficiently in the NT to have tenancy support programs that are funded adequately. And the good news is that we do have homelessness funding which is coming online in the NT and should be hitting the ground quite soon in Dune this year, which will mean that we can adequately fund those programs. But it's important that those referrals are made early rather than at the crisis point when it's kind of too late.

And Annie, I know that you and I have spoken before about this well quite some time ago with your predeceasor as will Peter McMillan, about some of that federal funding that's going to hit the ground. I mean, has it hit the ground yet or is that the funding that you're referring to.

And Annie, I know that you and I have spoken before about this well quite some time ago with your predeceasor as will Peter McMillan, about some of that federal funding that's going to hit the ground. I mean, has it hit the ground yet or is that the funding that you're referring to.

Yeah, so this was federal government investment that the Northern Territory government is matching dollar for dollar that was announced in last year's federal budget. So it was about May where we came in and we had a chat with you, and it was a very exciting day because we went from getting one point three percent of federal funding in homelessness despite having twelve times the national rate of homelessness, so we were severely disadvantaged here in the NT and we got a sevenfold increase, so huge increase there. So that money is under commissioning at the moment, so we should be hearing very shortly in terms of how that's going to be spent. But I'm sure some of that is going to be on expanding tendency support programs because that's that prevention piece. It's keeping people in housing, because what we're doing, if we're evicting people into homelessness, it's kind of just shifting the problem.

Yeah, so this was federal government investment that the Northern Territory government is matching dollar for dollar that was announced in last year's federal budget. So it was about May where we came in and we had a chat with you, and it was a very exciting day because we went from getting one point three percent of federal funding in homelessness despite having twelve times the national rate of homelessness, so we were severely disadvantaged here in the NT and we got a sevenfold increase, so huge increase there. So that money is under commissioning at the moment, so we should be hearing very shortly in terms of how that's going to be spent. But I'm sure some of that is going to be on expanding tendency support programs because that's that prevention piece. It's keeping people in housing, because what we're doing, if we're evicting people into homelessness, it's kind of just shifting the problem.

Well, that's going to be my next question. What do you think could happen? I mean, if we are in a situation where people are sort of moved out, do you think it's going to create a greater issue with homelessness? Are they're going to wind up on the street, what's going to happen? Yeah?

Well, that's going to be my next question. What do you think could happen? I mean, if we are in a situation where people are sort of moved out, do you think it's going to create a greater issue with homelessness? Are they're going to wind up on the street, what's going to happen? Yeah?

Absolutely, I think it depends where we're looking at. I mean, in the remote space, you're probably just going to see increased levels of overcrowdings because people will just shift from one property to the next. If you're talking about the urban centers, you'll probably see that, but you'll also see increased levels of rough sleeping. That's what I think is very likely. And the interesting thing is we talk about huge amounts of homelessness and the NTY A lot of that is severe overcrowding. But even if you remove that from the stats, we still have nine times the national rate of rough sleeping here in the Northern Territory, so it's really significant. So it's just kind of shifting the problem to the streets, which isn't a solution. So evicting people should really be the last resort. But at the same time, if someone doesn't have capacity to manage their tendency, the alternative shouldn't be homelessness, it should be really supporting those people. Talking to the sector, what can the sector do to step in and really wrap around services to support people. Early on in the piece, and we get.

Absolutely, I think it depends where we're looking at. I mean, in the remote space, you're probably just going to see increased levels of overcrowdings because people will just shift from one property to the next. If you're talking about the urban centers, you'll probably see that, but you'll also see increased levels of rough sleeping. That's what I think is very likely. And the interesting thing is we talk about huge amounts of homelessness and the NTY A lot of that is severe overcrowding. But even if you remove that from the stats, we still have nine times the national rate of rough sleeping here in the Northern Territory, so it's really significant. So it's just kind of shifting the problem to the streets, which isn't a solution. So evicting people should really be the last resort. But at the same time, if someone doesn't have capacity to manage their tendency, the alternative shouldn't be homelessness, it should be really supporting those people. Talking to the sector, what can the sector do to step in and really wrap around services to support people. Early on in the piece, and we get.

A lot of messages and calls to this show about problem public housing tenants. You know, people contacting us about fights on the street, large gatherings, music all hours, damage to properties. It does seem as though something needs to be done to try to really sort some of these issues out, because it can be an absolute nightmare, even for other public housing tenants that are living next door.

A lot of messages and calls to this show about problem public housing tenants. You know, people contacting us about fights on the street, large gatherings, music all hours, damage to properties. It does seem as though something needs to be done to try to really sort some of these issues out, because it can be an absolute nightmare, even for other public housing tenants that are living next door.

Absolutely, And I think that's such a good point because, like I said before, you know, public housing tenants want to live in thriving communities as well. No one wants to live next to a house that you know has has complexities that are impacting on you and can't be solved. You know, I wouldn't want to be in that situation either. So I completely understand where listeners are coming from, and so I I think it is about finding those solutions. It's about building more housing as well so that we don't have those issues with overcrowding, with visitor management, it's about thinking innovatively when it comes to these new funds, what can we do to make sure that we are managing visitors in an innovative way, you know, maybe dealing with the visitor management issues rather than taking a punitive response to the tenant at the midst of this, who might kind of be a victim in this situation. It's also about looking at alternative models of social housing, like community housing, which you know is growing here in the Northern Territory, and you know across Australia we've got community housing providers who manage twenty five percent of social housing stock and they're really close to the community. They take a mission based lens to social housing and they're really successful when it comes to tendency management.

Absolutely, And I think that's such a good point because, like I said before, you know, public housing tenants want to live in thriving communities as well. No one wants to live next to a house that you know has has complexities that are impacting on you and can't be solved. You know, I wouldn't want to be in that situation either. So I completely understand where listeners are coming from, and so I I think it is about finding those solutions. It's about building more housing as well so that we don't have those issues with overcrowding, with visitor management, it's about thinking innovatively when it comes to these new funds, what can we do to make sure that we are managing visitors in an innovative way, you know, maybe dealing with the visitor management issues rather than taking a punitive response to the tenant at the midst of this, who might kind of be a victim in this situation. It's also about looking at alternative models of social housing, like community housing, which you know is growing here in the Northern Territory, and you know across Australia we've got community housing providers who manage twenty five percent of social housing stock and they're really close to the community. They take a mission based lens to social housing and they're really successful when it comes to tendency management.

And look, you know, I think there is absolutely a need for more public housing. I do think that there's you know, like from what I'm hearing on the show, people really want to see this bad behavior stamped out. And you know, from what you've spoken about there there are different ways that that can happen. But also I mean I'm looking at the public housing weight times. I mentioned this a little earlier on the show. For a one bedroom unit, let's say in Darwin, Casarina eight to ten years, and then if you're on the priority weight list six to eight years, like we're talking people who you know, it may be pensioners, it could be people with a disability who you know, who need a home. It could be a single mum fleeing domestic violence with children, who needs you know, who needs a place eight to ten years. Like when I first looked at that, I was like, it's that years months, what kind of you know, what are we talking here? And then yeah, years, yeah, and.

And look, you know, I think there is absolutely a need for more public housing. I do think that there's you know, like from what I'm hearing on the show, people really want to see this bad behavior stamped out. And you know, from what you've spoken about there there are different ways that that can happen. But also I mean I'm looking at the public housing weight times. I mentioned this a little earlier on the show. For a one bedroom unit, let's say in Darwin, Casarina eight to ten years, and then if you're on the priority weight list six to eight years, like we're talking people who you know, it may be pensioners, it could be people with a disability who you know, who need a home. It could be a single mum fleeing domestic violence with children, who needs you know, who needs a place eight to ten years. Like when I first looked at that, I was like, it's that years months, what kind of you know, what are we talking here? And then yeah, years, yeah, and.

It's going up. We've got more people on that weight list. I think there's about five thousand applicants as of yesterday, it was the last time I checked, So five thousand applicants across priority, across the across the general weight list, across the ANT. So it's really really significant, and independent modeling shows that we need close to fourteen and a half thousand social and affordable homes by twenty thirty six in the Northern Territory to really encompass population growth but also deal with that wait list. So you know, we really want to bring that down. And you're right, you know there are families behind those numbers, and like you said, those people could be pensioners. We know that we're seeing the statistics of people over the age of fifty five in homelessness increasing in the NT by a huge amount. We've also got I think the young end of the spectrum is really an important one to consider because fifty percent of THENT homeless population is under the age of twenty five. So what alternative models can we look at that maybe aren't public housing that we can consider that actually direct people away from the public housing system and from a life of being in public house exactly. And there are models specifically in the youth space, like the Youth for Your model, which is a bricks and mortar response where young people go and they live in a Youth for You for two years and they're you know, such positive outcomes. You've got over eighty percent exiting into work and into stable housing and seventy two percent of those exiting into private housing.

It's going up. We've got more people on that weight list. I think there's about five thousand applicants as of yesterday, it was the last time I checked, So five thousand applicants across priority, across the across the general weight list, across the ANT. So it's really really significant, and independent modeling shows that we need close to fourteen and a half thousand social and affordable homes by twenty thirty six in the Northern Territory to really encompass population growth but also deal with that wait list. So you know, we really want to bring that down. And you're right, you know there are families behind those numbers, and like you said, those people could be pensioners. We know that we're seeing the statistics of people over the age of fifty five in homelessness increasing in the NT by a huge amount. We've also got I think the young end of the spectrum is really an important one to consider because fifty percent of THENT homeless population is under the age of twenty five. So what alternative models can we look at that maybe aren't public housing that we can consider that actually direct people away from the public housing system and from a life of being in public house exactly. And there are models specifically in the youth space, like the Youth for Your model, which is a bricks and mortar response where young people go and they live in a Youth for You for two years and they're you know, such positive outcomes. You've got over eighty percent exiting into work and into stable housing and seventy two percent of those exiting into private housing.

That's what you want, Like, they're the kind of success stories you want. I mean, even this morning on the week that was we had Josh Bergoyn and he was talking about somebody in his electrod who'd reached you know, who'd gone from being in public housing to purchasing that public housing. Like that's the kind of thing that I reckon is really aspirational that you do. I'd love to see more of that happening in the Northern Territory if it's.

That's what you want, Like, they're the kind of success stories you want. I mean, even this morning on the week that was we had Josh Bergoyn and he was talking about somebody in his electrod who'd reached you know, who'd gone from being in public housing to purchasing that public housing. Like that's the kind of thing that I reckon is really aspirational that you do. I'd love to see more of that happening in the Northern Territory if it's.

Possible, absolutely, And I think that's where our conversations need to be headed. I think we're definitely always going to need social and affordable housing because there are populations that will need that and that's really important. And those numbers show that we just need to bring more online. That's that's not a point to argue in my mind. But at the same time, yeah, we do need to look at that housing continuum, make sure that there are options for home ownership, particularly for Aboriginal people, and also really focus i think on prevention of homelessness and that redirection away from the service system.

Possible, absolutely, And I think that's where our conversations need to be headed. I think we're definitely always going to need social and affordable housing because there are populations that will need that and that's really important. And those numbers show that we just need to bring more online. That's that's not a point to argue in my mind. But at the same time, yeah, we do need to look at that housing continuum, make sure that there are options for home ownership, particularly for Aboriginal people, and also really focus i think on prevention of homelessness and that redirection away from the service system.

Do we have many situations in remote communities where we do have families that have been able to go from you know, that social housing model or the public housing model, to being able to purchase their own homes. Is that an option for people in remote communities?

Do we have many situations in remote communities where we do have families that have been able to go from you know, that social housing model or the public housing model, to being able to purchase their own homes. Is that an option for people in remote communities?

Look, I'm not too sure. Aboriginal Housing and Tea you know, are probably the ones to ask about that. I know that there has historically been an option for public housing tenants to purchase a public housing property at a bit of a discounted rate. So I'm not sure if that's still actively promoted through the department, but it has certainly been an option previously, and you see that work in other jurisdictions as well. I know you know personally, that's what my granddad did back in Queensland back in the day, so you know that should be an option for people. Yeah.

Look, I'm not too sure. Aboriginal Housing and Tea you know, are probably the ones to ask about that. I know that there has historically been an option for public housing tenants to purchase a public housing property at a bit of a discounted rate. So I'm not sure if that's still actively promoted through the department, but it has certainly been an option previously, and you see that work in other jurisdictions as well. I know you know personally, that's what my granddad did back in Queensland back in the day, so you know that should be an option for people. Yeah.

Absolutely, Or I mean even when I like where I lived in Queensland, we bought an ex public house home that you know, like so these sort of options and we were like our family were you know, like it was my sister in lawa and we were young. You know, she was a baby, she's in her early twenties, and it was much cheaper probably than what you're going to find if you went into another you know, another area and it maybe wasn't the best socioeconomic suburb, but it was a fantastic option for her and for you know, my brother and her and I to all live in it was a fantastic thing.

Absolutely, Or I mean even when I like where I lived in Queensland, we bought an ex public house home that you know, like so these sort of options and we were like our family were you know, like it was my sister in lawa and we were young. You know, she was a baby, she's in her early twenties, and it was much cheaper probably than what you're going to find if you went into another you know, another area and it maybe wasn't the best socioeconomic suburb, but it was a fantastic option for her and for you know, my brother and her and I to all live in it was a fantastic thing.

Absolutely, I think that needs to be a viable option. I think we also need to make sure that we're replacing them at the other side of the market. You know, if we are taking social and affordable homes off the off the market and we're putting them in the private space, then we need to make sure we're also building me yes, so that those wait lists can decrease.

Absolutely, I think that needs to be a viable option. I think we also need to make sure that we're replacing them at the other side of the market. You know, if we are taking social and affordable homes off the off the market and we're putting them in the private space, then we need to make sure we're also building me yes, so that those wait lists can decrease.

Yeah, absolutely, And that is something that I guess over the years we've maybe not seen happen as much as what needs to happen is as some of those really big complexes we've you know, we've you know, we've sort of realized that they're maybe not the best option in terms of everybody living in a massive complex. Replenishing and replacing that stock then needs to happen.

Yeah, absolutely, And that is something that I guess over the years we've maybe not seen happen as much as what needs to happen is as some of those really big complexes we've you know, we've you know, we've sort of realized that they're maybe not the best option in terms of everybody living in a massive complex. Replenishing and replacing that stock then needs to happen.

Right absolutely, And we can look at mixed tenure developments, which is you know, you might have a portion which is social housing, some that's affordable and some that's private. And I think that's really important for that community cohesion and that works all over Australia. We've got some in Darwin which we don't.

Right absolutely, And we can look at mixed tenure developments, which is you know, you might have a portion which is social housing, some that's affordable and some that's private. And I think that's really important for that community cohesion and that works all over Australia. We've got some in Darwin which we don't.

Yeah, well, it's lovely to speak to you this morning, Annie. I really appreciate your time and sort of giving us a bit of perspective in this space. Thank you, Thank you,

Yeah, well, it's lovely to speak to you this morning, Annie. I really appreciate your time and sort of giving us a bit of perspective in this space. Thank you, Thank you,