Well, we know the Northern Territory Parliament yesterday past legislation which is going to mean that we've got the strongest bail laws in Australia. So in that emergency session of Parliament which followed the tragic death of Nightcliffe shop owner Linford Fike, the Government strengthened the amendments to the Bail Act, placing community safety ahead of other factors, is what they've said. Now, under these new laws, we know the presumption against bail's going to apply to serious violent offenses and also changes the test for offenses that the presumption against bail is applied. The bill will also make amendments to the criteria considered in bail applications for youth to remove consideration of detention as a last resort. The changes are expected to see an increase in the number of prisoners in our already overburdened correctional facilities. So how will the expected increase in prisoners be managed? Well, the Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley joins me on the show. Good morning, and Commissioner, let's try that again. We seem to have locked out for some reason of that interview, so I'm just trying to getting back on the line. I believe I've got the Commissioner on the line. Good morning, Commissioner, Good morning, Katie. Now tell me. We know that we are expecting an increase. What are you expecting to see as a result of these changes when it comes to your prisoner numbers?

Well, we know the Northern Territory Parliament yesterday past legislation which is going to mean that we've got the strongest bail laws in Australia. So in that emergency session of Parliament which followed the tragic death of Nightcliffe shop owner Linford Fike, the Government strengthened the amendments to the Bail Act, placing community safety ahead of other factors, is what they've said. Now, under these new laws, we know the presumption against bail's going to apply to serious violent offenses and also changes the test for offenses that the presumption against bail is applied. The bill will also make amendments to the criteria considered in bail applications for youth to remove consideration of detention as a last resort. The changes are expected to see an increase in the number of prisoners in our already overburdened correctional facilities. So how will the expected increase in prisoners be managed? Well, the Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley joins me on the show. Good morning, and Commissioner, let's try that again. We seem to have locked out for some reason of that interview, so I'm just trying to getting back on the line. I believe I've got the Commissioner on the line. Good morning, Commissioner, Good morning, Katie. Now tell me. We know that we are expecting an increase. What are you expecting to see as a result of these changes when it comes to your prisoner numbers?

Well, Katie, the short answer to that is more people in custody, and the government's been pretty clear about that. The expectation on us is to keep growing the system. We're working on that obviously, and we've been working on it for a few months now and we're working on it still. Now. We think we'll see more people on remand both adult and young people. We've got capacity issues in terms of infrastructure, but we've also got plans to keep expanding.

Well, Katie, the short answer to that is more people in custody, and the government's been pretty clear about that. The expectation on us is to keep growing the system. We're working on that obviously, and we've been working on it for a few months now and we're working on it still. Now. We think we'll see more people on remand both adult and young people. We've got capacity issues in terms of infrastructure, but we've also got plans to keep expanding.

Okay, so how many additional bids are you trying to bring online?

Okay, so how many additional bids are you trying to bring online?

Well, Katie, when we wrote the infrastructure master Plan that was launched last year, and I looked at all of the data, you know, at that time, I predicted, based on everything in front of me then, that we'd look at about three thousand and a bit prisoners probably in about two years time. Now. Obviously, we well exceeded that trajectory. And today we're at two eight hundred and twenty five adult prisoners, and I think yesterday we had about forty five young people in detention. Now I think we'll probably breach three thousand prisoners in the not too distant future. I think we'll add another one hundred or so pretty quickly as a result of these new laws, and then the rest will be dependent on court decisions. And of course, you know activity out in the world with crime and police now, you know, our job is to respond to that. I met yesterday with the Department of Infrastructure. We're working rapidly on more plans, particularly to expand Beerrimer, but we've also got pipe line works already in place for additional construction out at halts and additional construction of those work camps that we've spoken about previously.

Well, Katie, when we wrote the infrastructure master Plan that was launched last year, and I looked at all of the data, you know, at that time, I predicted, based on everything in front of me then, that we'd look at about three thousand and a bit prisoners probably in about two years time. Now. Obviously, we well exceeded that trajectory. And today we're at two eight hundred and twenty five adult prisoners, and I think yesterday we had about forty five young people in detention. Now I think we'll probably breach three thousand prisoners in the not too distant future. I think we'll add another one hundred or so pretty quickly as a result of these new laws, and then the rest will be dependent on court decisions. And of course, you know activity out in the world with crime and police now, you know, our job is to respond to that. I met yesterday with the Department of Infrastructure. We're working rapidly on more plans, particularly to expand Beerrimer, but we've also got pipe line works already in place for additional construction out at halts and additional construction of those work camps that we've spoken about previously.

All Right, So, as it currently stands twenty eight hundred and twenty five adult prisoners forty five youth, you're expecting those numbers to go up to about three thousand in terms of you know, the additional beds and how many you've currently got. Are you gonna have to, like in the next week or so, are you expecting to bring online an additional one hundred beds or how does it work. I guess for our listeners, do you bring them online as needed or do you have them there ready to go?

All Right, So, as it currently stands twenty eight hundred and twenty five adult prisoners forty five youth, you're expecting those numbers to go up to about three thousand in terms of you know, the additional beds and how many you've currently got. Are you gonna have to, like in the next week or so, are you expecting to bring online an additional one hundred beds or how does it work. I guess for our listeners, do you bring them online as needed or do you have them there ready to go?

Well, we do both, Katie, and at the moment, your listeners would remember that we've the team have worked really hard to accelerate the expansion works at Beerma Correctional Center, and we've done that in the space of about four or five months. So that old youth detention center that was don Dale is now a fully functioning men's prison with four hundred and ten prisoners in it, and we've still got room to move in there. We've got the capacity to bring on some extra demountables and things that we're working on right now, and I expect those in a few weeks time. Plus I'm looking at other options on that site now. The bottom line is we'll do whatever it takes. And if that means we have to look at more mattresses on the floor, if that means we've got to look at working closely with police on how we manage watchhouse capacity, will do that, okay, But at the end of the day, I think Territorians expect us to get on with the job and to make that capacity work, and we'll do that.

Well, we do both, Katie, and at the moment, your listeners would remember that we've the team have worked really hard to accelerate the expansion works at Beerma Correctional Center, and we've done that in the space of about four or five months. So that old youth detention center that was don Dale is now a fully functioning men's prison with four hundred and ten prisoners in it, and we've still got room to move in there. We've got the capacity to bring on some extra demountables and things that we're working on right now, and I expect those in a few weeks time. Plus I'm looking at other options on that site now. The bottom line is we'll do whatever it takes. And if that means we have to look at more mattresses on the floor, if that means we've got to look at working closely with police on how we manage watchhouse capacity, will do that, okay, But at the end of the day, I think Territorians expect us to get on with the job and to make that capacity work, and we'll do that.

I know you had really just recently moved a majority of corrections prisoners out of those watch houses. Are you expecting you and I need to reuse those watch housers.

I know you had really just recently moved a majority of corrections prisoners out of those watch houses. Are you expecting you and I need to reuse those watch housers.

Well, I meet regularly with the police, with acting Police Commissioner, I met him a couple of days ago, and we're working very closely on that now. I don't want to impede police operations any further than we have been in the past. And we worked really hard to get out of those watchhouses. This morning, I think there's only about twenty six prisoners in police custody waiting to transfer to us. We worked really hard to get that number down and we'll keep doing that. I mean, I guess Katie, for your listeners, you know, the prison system fluctuates daily. I mean, in the last six or seven days alone, we've had one hundred and eight odd new receptions into our facilities, and we have people completing their sentences and being parolled and those sorts of things. So it is a juggling act and it's something we work on every day. But look, at the end of the day, if we've got to create new capacity or manage new capacity, we'll just work. We'll make it work.

Well, I meet regularly with the police, with acting Police Commissioner, I met him a couple of days ago, and we're working very closely on that now. I don't want to impede police operations any further than we have been in the past. And we worked really hard to get out of those watchhouses. This morning, I think there's only about twenty six prisoners in police custody waiting to transfer to us. We worked really hard to get that number down and we'll keep doing that. I mean, I guess Katie, for your listeners, you know, the prison system fluctuates daily. I mean, in the last six or seven days alone, we've had one hundred and eight odd new receptions into our facilities, and we have people completing their sentences and being parolled and those sorts of things. So it is a juggling act and it's something we work on every day. But look, at the end of the day, if we've got to create new capacity or manage new capacity, we'll just work. We'll make it work.

In terms of the forty five youth that are currently in the youth facility, we know that now there is going to be those changes where detention is no longer the last resort when it comes to young people. What's your capacity within the youth facility and are you expecting those numbers to go up?

In terms of the forty five youth that are currently in the youth facility, we know that now there is going to be those changes where detention is no longer the last resort when it comes to young people. What's your capacity within the youth facility and are you expecting those numbers to go up?

Yes, I am expecting those numbers to go up. And the youth facility, as I said at Holts, the new one, it's got a capacity I think about eighty six that we've upgraded there, and I'm looking at options at the moment to continue to do works to get that up potentially to you know, one twenty one thirty. Now, I don't expect to see those numbers hit one point thirty that fast, but it is a specialized environment and we're making capacity work there. So the other thing I wanted to just update your listeners on Katie and to you as well, is you might remember last time we spoke about establishing BYO support facilities for young people run by Corrections. Now the one down in Tenant Creek, the construction has completed on that and I think that will open in about two weeks time. We've already got some young people in there as a preliminary trial. But that's I think ten bed facility down in Berkley. Now in our Springs, you might remember we have taken over the old Papermark rehab facility and that's being converted into a joint bail support accommodation facility and moving the kids out of the Gap Road facility as well as being renovated for a intake romand center. Now, just yesterday we got the occupancy certificate for the bail accommodation facility there at the paper Bark and we expect to move those kids into that facility in the three days.

Yes, I am expecting those numbers to go up. And the youth facility, as I said at Holts, the new one, it's got a capacity I think about eighty six that we've upgraded there, and I'm looking at options at the moment to continue to do works to get that up potentially to you know, one twenty one thirty. Now, I don't expect to see those numbers hit one point thirty that fast, but it is a specialized environment and we're making capacity work there. So the other thing I wanted to just update your listeners on Katie and to you as well, is you might remember last time we spoke about establishing BYO support facilities for young people run by Corrections. Now the one down in Tenant Creek, the construction has completed on that and I think that will open in about two weeks time. We've already got some young people in there as a preliminary trial. But that's I think ten bed facility down in Berkley. Now in our Springs, you might remember we have taken over the old Papermark rehab facility and that's being converted into a joint bail support accommodation facility and moving the kids out of the Gap Road facility as well as being renovated for a intake romand center. Now, just yesterday we got the occupancy certificate for the bail accommodation facility there at the paper Bark and we expect to move those kids into that facility in the three days.

But it is going to be managed by Corrections, not an external provider.

But it is going to be managed by Corrections, not an external provider.

That's right. It's going to be managed by our Youth Justice staff who do a great job. They're experts at what they do. It's a different model, Katie, and we'll be managing that as a supported bail accommodation facility. Kids will have programs and activities there and then of course, as we've said before, we're working on designs for youth camps to operate from those facilities.

That's right. It's going to be managed by our Youth Justice staff who do a great job. They're experts at what they do. It's a different model, Katie, and we'll be managing that as a supported bail accommodation facility. Kids will have programs and activities there and then of course, as we've said before, we're working on designs for youth camps to operate from those facilities.

Yeah. Well, and I say, and you know that is something that the community is absolutely calling for those youth camps. I mean, when you talk about a youth camp, like, how does that work for our listeners to get a better understanding.

Yeah. Well, and I say, and you know that is something that the community is absolutely calling for those youth camps. I mean, when you talk about a youth camp, like, how does that work for our listeners to get a better understanding.

Well, what we're looking at is a design model that will take kids from our supported bio facilities or our center's thought facilities and have them go out with cultural advisors and cultural mentors and providers you know, on country in locations to do you know, I guess immersed cultural development and skills training. Now we're working through the design of that at the moment, and where you know, our youth justice experts are looking at all of the evidence of what works, and I don't want to preempt their advice to me, but we hope to have that working in the not too distant future. Now, I guess the challenge there is it's easy to talk about a youth camp, but what we want to make sure is that our staff and our providers are looking at what will work to get these kids back on track and to give them an opportunity. Now, and I've heard Katie and I'm happy to talk about I guess some of the work that's being done by our folks in youth justice on rehabilitation services and programs, because I know there's been a lot of questions about that, but this is about us giving kids not only the consequences and the accountability for their actions, but treatment and support to get their lives, you know, in order so that they can go on.

Well, what we're looking at is a design model that will take kids from our supported bio facilities or our center's thought facilities and have them go out with cultural advisors and cultural mentors and providers you know, on country in locations to do you know, I guess immersed cultural development and skills training. Now we're working through the design of that at the moment, and where you know, our youth justice experts are looking at all of the evidence of what works, and I don't want to preempt their advice to me, but we hope to have that working in the not too distant future. Now, I guess the challenge there is it's easy to talk about a youth camp, but what we want to make sure is that our staff and our providers are looking at what will work to get these kids back on track and to give them an opportunity. Now, and I've heard Katie and I'm happy to talk about I guess some of the work that's being done by our folks in youth justice on rehabilitation services and programs, because I know there's been a lot of questions about that, but this is about us giving kids not only the consequences and the accountability for their actions, but treatment and support to get their lives, you know, in order so that they can go on.

This is something we spoke about yesterday with Auntie Billa Warra Lee. I mean, she said, we need to get a bit tougher, like you know, kids can't shouldn't have you know, they shouldn't have TVs. It shouldn't be a luxury for them when they are going into detention. She had said she'd love to see, you know, those the youth boot camps that are led by bicultural leaders as well. I mean in terms of some of those things that you know that that youth maybe do access to. There are people in the community saying that they you know, they want strict discipline. They were her word yesterday.

This is something we spoke about yesterday with Auntie Billa Warra Lee. I mean, she said, we need to get a bit tougher, like you know, kids can't shouldn't have you know, they shouldn't have TVs. It shouldn't be a luxury for them when they are going into detention. She had said she'd love to see, you know, those the youth boot camps that are led by bicultural leaders as well. I mean in terms of some of those things that you know that that youth maybe do access to. There are people in the community saying that they you know, they want strict discipline. They were her word yesterday.

Yeah, and you know, first things first, Katie, is when kids come into detention, they go to school, right and you know that's better than perhaps some of these kids are doing and attending out in the community. So firstly, you know, every young person in detention goes to school five days a week for forty five weeks of the year. We focus on their literacy and numeracy and we make sure that they are getting an education. Now, obviously, if they go back out into the community, some of them do, some of them don't attend school, and that's where families and parents and other factors come into play. But at the end of the day, when you're in custody in detention as a young person number one, go to school. Then there's other qualifications programs and training we do. You know, we work closely with providers to give people skills, white cards, tickets, perhaps get a job if you're a young person hearing adulthood. And you know, Katie, just recently during the Easter school holidays, you know, we had I think seven young people successfully complete you know, barista and cafe training, so they've got an opportunity for employment. We had people deliver white card training the seventeen young people, and you know, we also have other educational programs. So I think it is a little bit of a misconception that kids are in there in a holiday camp. It's absolutely not. There's a structured day. They go about their work. Now, what I do hear from the community is they want to see better consequences and discipline and I think the Chief Minister has spoken about, you know, the rewrite of the Youth Justice Act, and there's some work going on.

Yeah, and you know, first things first, Katie, is when kids come into detention, they go to school, right and you know that's better than perhaps some of these kids are doing and attending out in the community. So firstly, you know, every young person in detention goes to school five days a week for forty five weeks of the year. We focus on their literacy and numeracy and we make sure that they are getting an education. Now, obviously, if they go back out into the community, some of them do, some of them don't attend school, and that's where families and parents and other factors come into play. But at the end of the day, when you're in custody in detention as a young person number one, go to school. Then there's other qualifications programs and training we do. You know, we work closely with providers to give people skills, white cards, tickets, perhaps get a job if you're a young person hearing adulthood. And you know, Katie, just recently during the Easter school holidays, you know, we had I think seven young people successfully complete you know, barista and cafe training, so they've got an opportunity for employment. We had people deliver white card training the seventeen young people, and you know, we also have other educational programs. So I think it is a little bit of a misconception that kids are in there in a holiday camp. It's absolutely not. There's a structured day. They go about their work. Now, what I do hear from the community is they want to see better consequences and discipline and I think the Chief Minister has spoken about, you know, the rewrite of the Youth Justice Act, and there's some work going on.

With that Commissioner. I am going to have to move along because we're going to have to wrap up but quickly. The Chief Finister said on the show yesterday Corrections and Police would be reviewing who is on bail. Do you know how many people are on bail under the supervision of Corrections?

With that Commissioner. I am going to have to move along because we're going to have to wrap up but quickly. The Chief Finister said on the show yesterday Corrections and Police would be reviewing who is on bail. Do you know how many people are on bail under the supervision of Corrections?

Well, firstly, Katie, we supervise people who are on parole and sentenced daughters, and we monitor and do bail assessments for electronic monitoring for people who are on EMD. Now to answer your question, in total though as last I checked, there's about sixteen hundred people in the territory on various types of bail conditions. Obviously police have a primary role there in managing those breaches. And where breaches occur with electronic monitoring for example, or someone breaches a curfew, we report that to police and they take action. But suffice to say, Katie, you know we are working very closely with the Police Commissioner and his team to see what else can be done around accelerating and expanding that EM program.

Well, firstly, Katie, we supervise people who are on parole and sentenced daughters, and we monitor and do bail assessments for electronic monitoring for people who are on EMD. Now to answer your question, in total though as last I checked, there's about sixteen hundred people in the territory on various types of bail conditions. Obviously police have a primary role there in managing those breaches. And where breaches occur with electronic monitoring for example, or someone breaches a curfew, we report that to police and they take action. But suffice to say, Katie, you know we are working very closely with the Police Commissioner and his team to see what else can be done around accelerating and expanding that EM program.

That is a heck of a lot of people. Sixteen hundred people.

That is a heck of a lot of people. Sixteen hundred people.

Yeah, so you know, goes to show you the extent of the problem and the size of the challenge in front of us. But at the end of the day, you know, many of those people would be on bail conditions and complying. To give you a perspective, I think there's about seven hundred plus people on electronic monitoring in the territory. That includes people on paroles and people on bails, but that is growing as well.

Yeah, so you know, goes to show you the extent of the problem and the size of the challenge in front of us. But at the end of the day, you know, many of those people would be on bail conditions and complying. To give you a perspective, I think there's about seven hundred plus people on electronic monitoring in the territory. That includes people on paroles and people on bails, but that is growing as well.

How many of them would be used, do you know?

How many of them would be used, do you know?

Look off the top of my head, I would it's a very small number. I'd say it's about forty odd. I'd have to check the number, KDI don't quote me on that, but the vast majority are adults. But I guess what we're looking at is what else can be done to make sure that the communication and the information exchange between corrections and police is as seamless as we can make it, and when people do breach the conditions of their EM, police have access to that information immediately. Ye.

Look off the top of my head, I would it's a very small number. I'd say it's about forty odd. I'd have to check the number, KDI don't quote me on that, but the vast majority are adults. But I guess what we're looking at is what else can be done to make sure that the communication and the information exchange between corrections and police is as seamless as we can make it, and when people do breach the conditions of their EM, police have access to that information immediately. Ye.

Why is that not already able to happen?

Why is that not already able to happen?

Well, it does happen pretty routinely, and what we're looking at is how we can tighten it further. So the electronic monitoring service Katie is provided by a company who run the technology, and then our Corrections officers and police can access that data. But suffice to say, though, we think there's better ways that we can join up that chain of digital information flow and we're working on that now.

Well, it does happen pretty routinely, and what we're looking at is how we can tighten it further. So the electronic monitoring service Katie is provided by a company who run the technology, and then our Corrections officers and police can access that data. But suffice to say, though, we think there's better ways that we can join up that chain of digital information flow and we're working on that now.

All right, well, I'll be keen to get an update on that when there is one available. Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, thank you so much for your time this morning. Sorry we didn't have.

All right, well, I'll be keen to get an update on that when there is one available. Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, thank you so much for your time this morning. Sorry we didn't have.

More time, No worries, Katie all the best.

More time, No worries, Katie all the best.

Thank you,

Thank you,