Monday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, the Thunder beat the Pacers in Game 7 of the Finals, but Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is still not a “top-tier” name. Caleb Williams does his best to keep the Packers-Bears rivalry relevant. Fox Sports Radio Injury Expert, Dr. David Chao breaks down the risks Tyrese Haliburton knew about before entering Game 7 and seemingly tearing his Achilles.
This is the best of two pros and a couple Joe with Lamar Aarings and rating Win and Jonas Knox on Fox Furs Radio.
It is black and drack here on this Monday morning. That's gotta be racist all the way up until nine am Eastern time, six o'clock Pacific. And congratulations are in order to the Oklahoma City Thunder a game seven. It took, but a game seven got them their first ever NBA Championship. Congratulations to the OKAC Thunder and their fan base on the NBA Finals win. And I know a lot of discussion about what could have been if not for the injury to Tyrese Haliburton.
Well, they got off to a quick start, and that should be noted that it looked like it was going to be a pretty compell final game. Haliburton unfortunately, you know, hurts his lower leg. Obviously, it was clearly an achilles rupture that that took place. You could see it in the replay that the NBA showed a hundred million times in slow motion, by the way, so once he went out, it's interesting the Pacers actually outscored the the OKC Thunder in the second quarter.
They actually outscored them.
The the undoing of the Indiana Pacers was the sloppy play in the third quarter, the amount of turnovers in the third quarter, the lack of offensive continuity and rhythm in the third quarter was to me what the undoing was. I mean, topping Obie got his opportunity to get in there and play, he did nothing. You know, he did nothing, contributed nothing on the offensive side of the ball. Miles Turner, everybody, Well, that's just the truth. And you would have thought that they would have had possibly a little bit of an advantage just because of the athleticism and empower that Obie top And was showing.
And then you know, Miles.
Turner was one who was able to get the three ball going, was able to show a little bit of versatility on the offensive side of the board on the ball, and he just couldn't find it. Another note, by the way, that should be added into the undoing was second chance opportunities and in some cases third chance opportunities for Oka see, which says to me, you're getting out hustled. You know, the couple times that they had really really bad offensive sequences, it was because guys were staring or collapsing down to the ball. They weren't moving around, they weren't keeping the spacing, they weren't making it a difficult, you know, proposition to defend them, and o case, he thunder took advantage of it.
Yeah, it's game completely changed. It felt like the way, especially with Haliburton's start, that we were going to get one of those classic epic game seven's, and you saw the road team come out fired up, and you just thought, man, this is something that's going to go down to the wire. And what's crazy is we're so educated on achilles injuries now from the standpoint that everybody can recognize it in real time when it happens. And I don't know when that change happened or when that change occurred, but it feels like we all know what that looks like.
When TV cameras became HD, yeah, you know, you know you could put stuff in slow motion the way that they do.
But even even seeing his reaction action on the floor, you knew, like you just knew it was the same thing.
It was interesting that the media or the people announcing the game, like, why are you dancing over it? It's like people that you're interviewing like you talk to his dad or whatever it may be. I think somebody even on call, you know, calling the game, actually ended up saying it. It was like just say, he ruptured as achilles tendon. Like I know, you didn't have the official word on it, and it was something the kind of waiting until they tell you officially, but you could have. You could have immediately speculated the idea that you could tell by the way it looked that it was it was a ruptured achilles.
Yeah. I mean, I just think we all know in watching it what that looks like now, and so we don't need to be well, it's a it's a lower leg injury. Well clearly, clearly it's not an upper leg injury. Clearly it's not an upper body injury. Tyres Alton. And you can almost see the trainer whoever came over to him, I think, asked him did you feel it pop? And he just kind of was screaming I did, I did, And you just knew that was it.
That was over.
And the worst part is, you know, not only is it over for that game in that series, it's probably over for all the next year too. That's a that is a brutal I mean, you would know a.
Lot office one these days. You know, acls used to be career killers. Achilles tendons, they weren't career killers. But it just all depended on how you adjusted and adapted to the new the new leg, the new lower leg that you would have after the surgery. And it took a really, really long time to be able to come back. But at one point achilles were actually probably a career a career ender or career alterer. And those were the two. You know everything else MCLs, pcls, you know, meniscus, those things seemed to be more minor, but you tore it out a interior cruciate ligament that was a career ender. And let me tell you something, the Achilles tendon is the biggest tendon in your body. That thing, when it goes, it is one of the most absolute painful deals you'll ever deal with.
Man.
It is that.
I mean, I'm a grown man and I have a pretty high pain tolerance.
It had me.
Crying like tears, like not like oh it hurts, but more like how Denzel was standing there when he was getting whipped in glory and not one tear came out his eye and it just went real slow down his face like that type of pain, man, Yeah, that type of pain you don't want.
Yeah, it's I mean, it definitely changed how we viewed that game and what the I guess the recap and the storyline of that game would be. But nonetheless, I mean, there's a lot on the injury that we're going to get into throughout the course of the show. But you got to give your flowers to SGA, Shay, Gilgess, Alexander, who did speak afterwards just about their mindset, the win, how they feel about the team, and what they could possibly accomplish moving forward.
We definitely still have room to grow, and that's the fun part of this. So many of us can still get better.
Third row.
It's not very many of us on the team that are quote unquote in our prime or even close to it. So we have a lot of room to grow individually and as a group. And I'm excited for the future of this team. But this is a great start for sure. Couldn't imagine it any other way.
That's a brilliant year that he just finished off. Yes in Oklahoma City, I mean.
Basically enough to thrust him into being one of the names that is mentioned as as you know, as a name. It's it's interesting, and I know that might sound like a crazy take, but it just seems as though when you talk about the names that are still driving the game, SGA's name comes up. But do you now lead off with SGA's name after this series, after this season, MVP season, MVP of the playoffs, you know, or the finals? Does this does this now propel you know, SGA into that conversation of being one of the main names, not not after you give out the main names. Then he comes right after you give out the Lebron James or the Steph Curry's or the Kevin Durantz like those eras seemingly are now concluding and you need those young stars to step in. I mean, we've talked about Jannis at, We've talked about Jason Tatum, even even Jalen Brown. We've talked about them more than we've talked about it SGA. And maybe it's because of the the you know, the markets that they're in, you know, but these are these are names that have come up. You know, Joe l Embiid and he hasn't even really you know, been too much since since the MVP year. But I just wonder does this series does this year? Does the OKC Thunder season thrust not only SGA into the main conversation of one of the main players in the NBA, and and what does it do for the Thunder. You know, this team wasn't able to get it done with KD. Harden, you know, Serge Abaka and Westbrook. You weren't able to get it done. And now they've been able to deliver a first championship to the OKAC Thunder. This is a big moment for for that franchise, is a big moment for that town and and I would assume to be able to take advantage of it. This is a big moment for the NBA as well.
So you want to know whether or not SGA is going to become a talking point like other superstars in the NBA, Like that's that's that's the question. Because I have the answer, you won't say no, probably not, probably not. And you want to know why, because they've got to squeeze every last drop of the lebron rag that they can while they got it. Got to squeeze it. You gotta got every every drop out. You want that thing to be bone dry. Afterwards, they're just they're going to pick at the carcass of Lebron James for as long as they possibly can because they know that that's what feeds and that's and that's the way the NBA has worked for a long time, and they're going to be in for route awakening when Lebron James does decide to walk away, because he really has carried the discussion and the conversation for that league for a couple of decades now, and they've got an opportunity. They've got an opportunity to promote and try and get coverage for some of these younger stars, guys like SGA, guys like a Tatum or a Brown last year, like, they've got opportunities, They've got a chance here. It took them forever to finally acknowledge, Hey, maybe Indiana's pretty good. I mean, everybody just wanted to coordinate the Knicks because they got past the Celtics with all their injuries, and Indiana was standing there going excuse us, like, we're pretty good as well too, and we're going to be the team that represents this conference in the finals. And so if they can rally around the idea of hey, Lebron's gonna be on his way out soon. The end is near, and we're going to have to transition to try and find new stars and new conversations and new talking points. If they can do that and accept that, then they got a chance. If not, it's just going to be great players who get a fraction of the coverage because people don't know how to cover the newer generation of NBA players.
It's interesting. It's interesting because it probably is a very important coat that they need to figure out how to crack in terms of just the development of this new age of stars. It looked like it might have been John Morant for a moment and then he you know, kind of shot it ol way or you know, blew it away, no pun into Yeah, yeah, you know, he he had other things.
On his own.
Can I defend John Morant?
Yeah sure.
Gunlighter sales really spiked after that video came out there. You go, you know how many people were smoking weed out back somewhere and they pulled out a nine millimeter with a flame coming out of it and they probably said, thanks, oh God, keep.
The party going on, past the back, past the bowl player.
Yeah, ready to take up no violence here? Baby all love.
Anyway, So he kind of messed himself up off the court, and now the conversation went away from him. It seemed as though our guy, you know, Anthony Atwards, was on the pathway of being maybe anointed the new face of the league. But it almost seems as though he needs to I don't know, I don't know what they need to do. Maybe a little bit more maturity. Maybe maybe it's just they need the stars aligned for him, but he needed to take it a little bit further than what he did this year to take a definitive step forward to be that face. In fact, so much so where now you have to maybe start having the conversation of is SGA gaining that type of momentum where he could be looked at as possibly the face of the n b A. I mean, you had the Tatum conversation, but people seem to be largely in part let down by Jason Tatum. I mean, no fault of his own this year. You know, he dealt with injury during during the playoffs, but you know, who's who's the guy you know, out of this younger generation, it just doesn't seem to be I mean, Nicola Jokic and and Luka are our guys that are being looked at as phenoms. Wmby's being looked at as as a phenom.
But faces of the league. There's there's I.
Think that what we learned from the Michael Jordan era of time and the Magic Johnson era of time was it has to be more than just the way you play the game. There has to be and for what it's worth, whether you're a Lebron James supporter or you're a detractor. One thing you can't take away from him is he understood the value and the quality of what it took for Kobe Bryant or a Michael Jordan or a Magic Johnson to be able to truly be what they became to the league. Even Steph Curry excellent, excellent approach, excellent job and being able to build their brands outside of being able to play basketball. Jonas and that to me, the personalities and understanding the ability to be able to capture your audience, I almost feel like in some way that's maybe missing. It's not as prevalent amongst these new players as it once was before.
There's also been a real well, I don't know if effort is the right word. But it has felt like even when a newer star comes along in the NBA, there's there's almost like a push to find the flaw. Like with SGA. Look, people can say, well, you know his style of play is you know, he you know, he tries to create too many fouls and he flops, and look, that may be true. Dude's a great player. I mean he is a great player. He was the best player in the league this year. It doesn't mean he's the best player in the league. I think a lot of people look at Joker and still say he's the guy. But he just capped off an incredible season and he won a title for that franchise. He said, a great year. But there is going to be some people that dismissed the style of play because it's not entertaining and nobody wants to see the fouls, et cetera. When James Harden was averaging over thirty a game, doing something that a couple of guys had ever done in the history of the NBA, the knock on James Harden was, yeah, but it's just that step back and he just throws it up and it what so because exactly exactly, it's like when people would complain about Floyd Mayweather. Oh yeah, but if you know his fights are.
Boring, they're boring.
Y Oh, he's boring, and it's just it's too defensive. I don't know, seems like something work because he made more money than anybody, and you ever heard the guy talk before all his faculties, Like, doesn't seem like he's punched drunk.
By the way, and he never lost no.
So like like why the push to find the flaw instead of just acknowledging. Hey man, different strokes for different folks. This works, that works to each their own. The shots are going in, he's making them. He had an incredible run and an incredible season. But sometimes we get caught up in this. Yeah, but he doesn't he you know the way he does it, you know, it's not like it So.
What toxic culture? I mean, that's that's what drives things. I'm telling you. It's the craziest thing. I went up, like I went up like four or five thousand followers just because I posted a post that was considered to be controversial to those that can't read, or don't read, or don't take the time to put things in the proper context. Because that's just the way the brain works. For today's culture. You know, the culture is toxic culture, cringe cringe top cringe culture. You know, that's that's what it is. So people people cling, and people gravitate to mean, they gravitate to negative.
You know.
It's it's interesting you put up a positive quote, a positive post, your your your likes, and your views significantly fall off. I got the data now, I don't even have to say per se or or I think the data says if you put up something that that maybe may he has a toxic vibe to it or a uh uh you know, somebody died type deal type of vibe to it, like watching somebody fall, like what took.
Place with the hot air balloon.
Like you look at the views on that, it's like a gazillion views, bro, take that for data.
There you go.
Then you put up something like hey, get up early, work hard, eat your breakfast, believe that you can win the day.
It'd be like one like I don't need to know.
I don't need to hear no positivity from you. I'm all about the negativity. I can't I'm not one to judge, you know. I retweet all.
The bad stuff I just think it's hilarious.
Yeah, but you retweet what they say, can help it.
I love trolling them too, by the way, sometimes I make time. I love going on your posts and trolling. That's a that's a fertile ground to go on. Oh yeah, oh man, there some weirdos. You've got some good ones, but you got some straight up weirdos that be fallowing.
Yeah, they're eating good I got somebody under somebody dusted off, an oldie, but a goodie. This weekend they called me a piss ant, which is one of the good ones. The Yeah, one of the great terms of all time. It is like, I hadn't heard that in years, and I think if you look up the definition, I think we're looking it up. It means uh like worthless or insignificant or something like that. I believe an insignificant or contemptible person or thing. Yeah, piss ant, love piss.
Ant, And I'm reading up on the type of ant that is.
All Shut up, Lee, you piss ant. We got to start dusting lying.
It's not.
That we got to start dusting that off. But goodie, here, how was.
How was that?
I'm sorry, Vegas in Vegas.
Sorry, it's hard to contain myself.
It is two pros old cluster at Las Vegas, two pros and a couple of here on Fox Sports Trading. Yeah, no invite for us, Not for us. We were left out, like they're going to invite a couple of pists ants like us.
Uh And there you go. That now it's been used correctly.
Fun note about the piss at is that it's a wood type of ant that actually has a urine like odor.
Really yeah, hence hence the name.
How do you get close enough to him and tell me? Have you ever smelled an ant?
Yeah?
Do you guys ever kill the sugar ants in your kitchen with your fingers and then they smell really bad?
I hate that's weird and that's wow. I've never heard of an ant. I think fire your ants is the only thing I've ever heard.
Sugar ants, black ant, I've heard it. I've heard of black ant me too.
Ral had a couple levem that is.
Like several, Like I think I got four there.
I hate ants.
When the dad has three sisters, my mom has one. I have four black ants.
Do you.
We call them ants in Pittsburgh and some people call them on Yeah, you know, got it?
I hate ants, Just hate them every time. I because here's the problem. You see one, there's five hundred just waiting to crawl through the crack. If you see one ant, just get ready.
Do you know if you.
Draw lines in front of them, they will like get all discombobulated. You ever see that done before?
Really?
But something about their sensory, Like if you were to draw like black lines in front of them, they'll avoid the lines. So you could actually trap one in a circle if you if you if you're happen to see one, you know, crawling around the studio, just try to find a way to get it to walk into a white piece of paper and then just start drawing lines on it.
Yeah, I just.
I can't stand him. Really bothered me? What about when I just say, really bothered me a lot?
I hate him? What about?
Uh when Ozzy Osbourne was all twazzled out on whatever he was whatever he was using at the time, and he got down on all fours and.
He took on the fire ends.
Yeah, he snorted a row of fire ends. How's that guy alive? You know what I mean?
Like, oh boy, they were alive?
Yeah, what do you think his next knee was like, I don't know, man like like the dragon off Game of Thrones.
Some catch truly be taking all physical challenge for no apparent reason.
Either, yeah they do, I don't get it.
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Hi, this is Jay.
I'm the producer of the Paula and Tony Fusco Show. Usually in these promos they asked you to listen to the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who have the dumbest takes on sports magicable. Don't listen to the show so it can get camps.
Get him.
Listen to the Tony Fusco Show on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
He's still moving.
They had Fanatics Fest. We talked to Michael Rubin last week and over the weekend there was Fanatics Fest, a who's who of celebrities and sports et cetera. All were there and one of the athletes who spoke at Fanatics Fest was Caleb Williams, who decided to take a couple of shots at the Green Bay Packers and their fan base are loyal listeners statewide. Listening in Wisconsin right now probably won't be thrilled with this. Caleb Williams said that a Packers fans suck. He also pointed out that the Bears did beat Green Bay in his one and only trip to Green Bay last season in the final week of the season, pointed out that he was one to zero in Green Bay. And he also pointed out that they tried to jump in to do the Lambeau Leap after they beat the Packers, and that Packer fans were throwing stuff at him and pushing their faces, etc.
Etc.
And I'm not sure what he really expected when you're trying to jump in and do the Lambeau Leap, even if you're jumping into the arms of a Bears fan who's sitting there. But I'll give Caleb Williams credit for this. At least somebody's trying to keep that rivalry alive, because nobody on the Bears has done their part for years now. I mean, they have been the doormat in that matchup for a long ass time. Soast Caleb Williams is trying to ignite a fire into the rivalry to get it going because it has been nonexistent and a one sided affair for years now in the NFC North.
I mean, get it going. It's it's cool to have.
I guess the conversation you know about him having a one one win record against against them in Lambeau. But as you mentioned, I mean, they haven't been good. So if you're if you're trying to fuel a fire too, what is a historic rivalry? I mean, wouldn't you want to win more games?
Wouldn't you want.
Your team based upon you, specifically, among others, be a better team of a better product of a team. I just don't that one kind of missed me a little bit, just based upon the relevance of who they are. You know, there's so many things that you could pinpoint from a five to twelve team and to say that you know.
Which.
By the way, the team you're taking a shot at was an eleven win team and they were right next to you in the division, So you got two more you got two more teams to look up at, even if you were to restore the rivalry between the green Bay Packers, not just it's it. You know, until they start winning, conversations like these will always be the punchline to a joke. I just hate to say it, Lee, and I hate to say it for you Jonas, because you're both fans of one of these teams.
As well as as and Love.
Have done posts posts Aaron Rodgers, you know, time there. They still finished third last year, which is crazy. That's crazy the thing.
Especially considering they've got, you know, three bye weeks each season, They've got their actual bye week and then they've got the Bears twice in the schedule. You know, for anybody celebrating Caleb Williams and his comments about the Packers, just so we're clear here, the Bears are three and seventeen against Green Bay in the last ten years. They've been a laughing stock in that matchup for a long ast.
It had been six years since they had won, and that's just versus the Packers.
It had been nine years since they had won in Green Bay. Yeah, I mean, it's you know, and this is not to ball wash green Bay or the Packer fan base. Lee actually went to Green Bay this past season, he said the best part of Green Bay was O'Hare Airport, which I don't know why. I don't know why he would have made those claims, especially live on the air. That was insulting to our Wisconsin.
I love yeah everything about Grease.
He's like this, man, man, this green Bay is really something now boarding American Airlines plus Feen eighteen. But it's just look, man, you know, somebody's got to try and do something because this has not been much of a rivalry. Matt Lafleur. That was his only loss to the Bears as head coach, and one of the things that Bears fans always talk about is when Lovey Smith first got the job, one of the things he said at his introductory press conference was beat Green Bay. And it is one of those historic rivalries where I guess, similar to college football, you are kind of judged in a way on how you perform against your rival like that that matters. And there's not that many of the those matchups or rivalry so to speak, in the NFL. This one, at least they're trying to get there, but it has been completely dominant by Green Bay for a long ass time. There is again a historical value. You can't you can't recreate historical value. You know, these are two fabled and very very respected traditionally, you know, franchises. So there's that when when the historic value is there, there's always a chance to rekindle or or find it, you know, what the rivalry represents along the way. When you guys were when you were in Washington and the Cowboys were coming up.
It was still a relevant rivalry.
Did that feel different?
But we were the Chicago Bears on the side of it. When I was there, we were always losing to to Dallas, always, like there was one. I think my first year we lost to them both times. I think the second year I was there, you know, I think we split with them. I think we lost to them there and then beat them at home. Now I don't really remember the rest of it, but I don't. I don't recall winning against Dallas very often. And so it's like that is a rivalry and and and fans will tell you, well, you used to, you know, just beat Dallas, you know, and you got to the point where your fans had to say that to you when you saw it, when they saw you, which was sad in itself. Like, you guys aren't very good. But if y'all could just beat Dallas, I think, are you know, I'll be happy for the season. But it was that big of a rivalry. I don't I don't know that it's still that big of a rivalry. And then the name changed. I don't know what relevance. It kind of carried over from you know, being you know, basically Cowboys versus Indians. So I don't you know, I don't know.
Do you know your record against the Cowboys all time, lebar Arrington, because I have it here.
I mean I would have had I would assume we beat them twice. I beat them twice, something to that effect.
Three and eight in eleven games against the Cowboys. You were four and seven in eleven games against the Giants. But and I believe this was back when the Cardinals were the Cardinals still in the NFC East back then, because you were four and one against the Cardinals. So for some reason, you really you really light it up in Arizona there.
Well that that's our team. It wasn't. It wasn't one on one. I played one position. What you said, I don't know. I knew what it felt like to play against the team that that you were kind of intimidated by.
I had saw what that looked like.
I've never really subscribed to being intimidated by a team, but rivalries can create that type of mental block if you're on the wrong side of it, and it's almost like you expect something to go wrong. I experienced that against Michigan in college, and we just never We never beat Michigan, no matter like how well we we did, and I you know, there's there's reasons why I believe we lost two of the three.
But that's why, like those guys that left Ohio State that never beat Michigan in that rivalry, you're going to have to eat that the rest of your life.
And that's that's a lot. It doesn't seem like a long time, but when you're in school, that's an eternity.
Like you were that first one, I'm like, dang.
Then you lose again, that just feels like it feels strange. And then to lose the third one, it was it just seemed like you're there for like that was something that's a forever deal, like you mentioned, and it is.
I mean, I still have to live with that.
I'm sure all of us that played on those teams have to live with the fact that we never notched a win against against Michigan. So so I was used to it when we got to the league and it was like, oh, this feels familiar.
I mean, you were three and oh against the Rams. For what it's worth, well, I didn't know that, ye dominant.
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
We're also going to catch up with doctor David chaw here in just a few moments from now, how to find out exactly why the hell these Achilles injuries seem to be happening. The conversation away from the fact that the Oklahoma City Thunder won the NBA Championship last night. And I don't know if anybody's going to go this direction. Do you take away a little bit of the luster or credibility of them winning the title based on Tyrese Haliburton getting injured? I don't, but I think that some people might go that direction.
I mean, I think you could make an argument that if Haliburton the way he was playing before he went down, is still in the game. It could have been a different outcome. But again, they they bounced back, they rallied in the second quarter, and they outscored Okay see in the second quarter. You can't say because Tyrese Aliburton was out that they had.
The horrible third quarter that they did.
Just horrible timing, just bad timing to have that bad of a showing in a quarter of basketball, and they just were ultimately unable to recover from how poor they played in the third quarter of the game. And you know, Okayse was able to build on on not only the poor play of Indiana in terms of protecting the ball, you know, rebounding the ball, you know, closing out on defense, but they they played, you know, they out hustled them. They they were able to find a way to extend the lead in the fourth quarter and ultimately just make it too big of a deficit for them to to, you know, to get back in it. There were still moments in the fourth quarter. I think they got it down to as low as twelve points in the fourth quarter, I want to say, I mean, there were times where they got it down to a manageable a manageable deficit when they were I can recall when it was at that twelve points. They had the ball and they had an offensive sequence, and if they score on a sequence, it's it's a one digit deal. It's a one digit deal. Possibly, potentially it could have been nine if they got the three. They score as ten, but you're still five possessions away if you score two, and obviously cut that down into you know, three possessions if you're shooting threes. So they just weren't getting the offensive production that they needed. They weren't protecting the ball, They couldn't find continuity and rhythm in their offensive sets. And could Halliburton have made it easier for them to be able to establish offensive sets? Could it have made it easier for Topping and Siakam and company to be able to you know, Miles to get better, better opportunities, better looks at the at the rim to shoot. Sure, he definitely would have made a difference. That's why he's considered to be one of the you know, the biggest star on the team. But what that had been the catalysts of them winning the game? Can you use that as a discussion point? You can use it how feasible it is.
I don't know.
SGA spoke after his NBA Championship, his NBA Finals MVP and performance regular season MVP season, but he spoke afterwards specifically about Tyrese Haliburton's injury and just ask.
You was okay? Obviously he wasn't.
What a just go out to him for sure, hell of a player, futures bright and that's happening. It's so unfortunate.
It's not that team and him as well. What did you say to him in that moment?
And yeah, I just asked my fears all right, and it seemed like he was in pain.
You just hate to see it.
In sports in general, but in this moment, like my heart drop for him, Like I couldn't imagine.
Bad news beers and uh, bad news beers.
Yeah, so that, Uh.
What did we get accomplished there other than knowing that you know, he knew he was in pain and it was.
A bad, bad situation for him. Like help me out here.
Well, I just I want to put that sound listen. I just want to I just want to do this for you because I think this is the most important part of that sound bite.
Yeah, I mean, either laugh or cry about it, I guess.
Oh my god.
Well, look, he was obviously the first to check on Tyrese Haliburton to see how he was doing and how he was in that moment, was s g A. And No, that would not that would not happen, definitely not. But he was there first on the scene to check on Tyrese Haliburton, who knew pretty immediately after it went down that he was in some trouble and that the season was over, the series was over for him. And then now the conversation becomes what about next year? Potentially next year would be over for him. By the way, when you mentioned earlier Lebar as somebody who went through the Achilles injury, yourself, when they keep showing it over and over again, do you get the flashbacks? Do you get the sensation again? Because I can remember the first time I saw somebody dislocate their kneecap. After I did it, I could almost feel it again, like if just seeing it I could recognize right away, oh, that's a dislocated kneecap, because I think it was Andrew Binham who dislocated his kneecap, and I remember seeing it and thinking, oh, yeah, I know what that is just based on having gone through it myself. So I don't know if if any of those flashbacks pop up for you seeing this stuff.
Don't know that I flashed back, but I can feel the pain of it, you know, like I'm like, ah, I feel bad for him. Like when I saw it pop, I was like, oh, man, and you just know I immediately, I mean, I guess you could call it a flashback. I mean I immediately thought about how painful it was and how long it took for it to heal.
You know, and.
There's just a lot of there's a lot that goes into an Achilles tendon tear man a full full rupture, and that's just again, I was, you know, sad to see it happened to him. I was curious, was it the same leg that he had to strain on the same exact lag, So it was maybe it was trying to tell him like you needed to, you know, you need to take a load off, like you need to shut it down. They made it a point to talk about how he didn't want to. He would have regretted it. He would have lived, you know with that regret. I mean, I guess ultimately to be able to say, you know, I actually blew it out a fully ruptured you know, because a strain is a tear. You know, a strain is a tear. Yeah, so you know, to sacrifice it that way. I mean, it's it's admirable that he went out so to speak on his shield.
Now, let's turn it over to an expert in the field, the one and only doctor David Chow joining us here on Fox Sports Radio. Official injury expert for Fox Sports Radio, and he's got live injury analysis at Sports Injury Central X NFL head team doctor for seventeen plus years as well. Doctor, good morning, thanks for popping on with us here on Monday morning.
Thanks for having me, guys. But but I don't know that he even need me. LaVar's got.
I mean, because that is the question, right is did the calf strain? Was that the lead up to this? In what happened last night to Tyrese Haliburton.
Yeah, there's a couple of other additional aspects. But you know, I just have to flash back a little bit when I started, you know, stopped in the NFL and I started doing injury analysis off a video literally off my couch. Before it was a business sports Injury Central. I got so much hate that man. You're on your couch. How do you know what he has? There's no way. And now we got LeVar. We got all these people saying yep, in the media saying yep, that's what it is, that's what it looked like. And so it's come a long way. But here's the point with this. First of all, afrigame too. Remember he limped off the stage and the next day he was seen with all this tape at a practice, moving stiffly. At that point in time, that Sports Injury Central sic score dot com, we're saying he's got achilles tendanitis and tennanitis. A strain is a partial tear. As LeVar says later in the series, he had a calf muscle, is what he said injury. But remember twenty nineteen Kevin Durant, it was a calf muscle and we were saying it was an Achilles partial tear and it became full. This is eerily similar. But in no way, shape or form am I criticizing the pacers or HALLI burden for trying to play LeVar. You know this, You would have played through a Super Bowl with whatever injury and this was the Super Bowl, right, this is Game seven, and to be fair, he helped get him to Game seven a great games you know, played through a Game six that was tough, and other games to get him there. So it's a little bit vacxi driving to say, well, he shouldn't have been playing. I mean, the unfortunate side of this is the biggest loss of the Pacers is not the NBA Finals, but they're going to lose him for basically all of next season with this recovery. You know this, LeVar, You know how hard the recovery is. I mean it's June. Okay, you know this is not an opt injury. It's in June. He's gonna miss all next season. That's the biggest regret, but you know it is what it is.
Unfortunately, Doc, when you see an injury like that take place, and the conversation of you would have played, and you would have played, how do you look at it from the standpoint of on the other side of it, he clearly does not tear his or fully rupture his achilles tendon if they hold him out, if he doesn't play, you never knew that he would have toured when he did play. But how do you have that type of conversation with a player? Are you able to medically explain when you hear that that Achilles tendon that type of conversation or is there a way for medically it to be explained to the athlete where you say, listen, man, if you go out there, the wrong move or at the wrong time, like your Achilles tendant will rupture and here are the you know, the elements that you're facing moving forward.
Well, I think you can try. You can't predict the future, but I'm sure you've had these conversations before in the NFL, and I've had him with a lot of players. It's a simple concept called informed consent. This is what the risks are. I famously had one with Philip Rivers about his torny acl six days after an e scope against the Patriots in an AFC Championship game. Informed consent about what your risks are, etc. And he was very firm on wanting to play through that. I'm sure that conversation was had with Tyrese Halbert if I from AFAR can say he's got Achilles tendonitis and you know, like eleven days ago, we posted a video talking about a risk of achilles and in rupture. That risk wasn't fifty percent ninety percent. It was a single digit risk, but unfortunately a single digit risk through four games, five games, it caught up to him and unfortunately happened. I'm sure Kevin Durant had the same conversation with doctors at Golden State in twenty nineteen. In twenty nineteen, we said when he came back, we thought he came back early, Kevin Durant from his injury, and we were saying, the ball no longer goes through Kevin duran it goes through Steph Curry. But as soon as Steph Curry went to the bench, the ball went through Kevin Durant and he popped his achilles. It's a sudden, eccentric load, quick movement, which is what basketball is all about, right, And so how do you put a guy out there and then say you just can't do X certain things. It's just natural. And the step that he made was, you know, not that horrific, but unfortunately it popped. It happened. The footnote on this, I'll say, guys, at least we're not talking about the same thing we did in twenty nineteen. In twenty nineteen. Most of the world, I think said Kevin Durant will never be the same again. And I think I came on Fox Sports Radio prior to this version of the show and said, no, I think I would give him a MATH contract. I think he will be Kevin Durant again, but it won't be for a year. So at least we're not having that conversation about Haliburt and will he be back. I think he fully will be back, but it'll lose all of next season to get there.
Doctor David Chowd joining us here on Fox Sports Radio. LeVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with you here on FSR. So is it me or have we seen an uptick on achilles injuries recently? And I don't know if that's just because we've got more video and we've got more television and we've got more opportunity to view it, camrangles, whatever. But I don't recall there being specifically in the NBA this many achilles injuries back in the day, so to speak. And you know, I was talking with somebody last night about, well, you know, could it be the shoes could be? Is it the floor? Was the floor slick? But I just don't recall this being a topic of conversation or a concern back in the day. Was it for you? And have we seen that an uptick in the Achilles injuries in the NBA in recent memory?
Well, what we have seen is a definite pick in these NBA playoffs, right, and when you have it happened to three star players Nyse Halliburton, Jason Tatum, Damian Lillard. That was all this NBA playoffs. So of course there's a lot more attention to it. There's a guy that keeps some stats. I don't keep all the numbers at Jeff stocks that. He said there's an eight Achilles ten and ruptures this season in the NBA and the previous high was five. So if you take that said, well, that's an uptick, but that's not statistically significant. Is it a little bit of an outlier season? Yes? Earlier a couple of weeks ago, I had on the great Bob Anderson Robert Anderson, and I don't know if you're familiar with him, LeVar, he's sort of the number one foot and ankle doctor for pro sports. He had him on my podcast. He's on the NFL Foot and Ankle Committee and shoot committee and studies all this stuff, and he distinctly says he does not has not seen an uptick and he does basketball as well as football, et cetera. An uptick in achilles injuries if you take it across time, he doesn't see that. Anecdotally. I do think we know more about injuries. And look, Liz Frank and midfoot have become common. My ankle sprain has become common term as opposed to a low ankle spraying. There is more tension because there is better video, there's better TV, et cetera. And there's no question. As players get bigger, faster, stronger, we find new different ways. But we haven't truly seen an uptick and Achilles ten in row sures over time. First say, according to doctor Anderson, you.
Know, my last question would would be.
And and looking at how this happened, it's one thing to say, okay, you have a educated consent and different things like that, and the kid wants to play, and you know this, you know the and I asked you, okay, can they can they ask that question in a way or give the information in a way where the player you know, decides to to not play, which it would be interesting because I'm sure there would be the criticism of all, he's soft, he decided not to play, did so on and so forth, or the doctor held him out, this, that and the other. But I would wonder have you ever faced a situation where you said, look, you need to hold this kid out based.
Upon what what? What this?
You know, these symptoms are that that they're going through. And it's on on the side of saying it, it's like, okay, they play, they play. If they don't, they don't. But on the other side of it, do you feel like maybe the coaches have held the medical staff accountable for allowing them to go in and play regardless of what maybe you know, the injury was telling you.
Yeah, I hear that, and it's a complex conversation. But LeVar, you know this, and you know for football days, eighty five percent healthy in the NFL is a good day, is a good week. And if you're really trying to wait for people to be one hundred percent and have no risk, you would have no players in the NFL and for the NBA as well. So the discussion has had. Look, it is incumbent on a team position on any doctor to say no any time there is any sort of permanent or long term risk period, whether it's concussion, spying, long term damage to the knee, etc. Here it's an achilles. Yes, he needs to be explained to if it ruptures, he's going to lose next season and the horrific surgery and recovery that it's going to take. Yes, but it's not going to end his career. And I think as a physician, you're there to serve the player and the player's best interest, so you have to tell the player everything. Here's the risk. I can't quantify the Achilles sent and risk, but it might be five percent. Okay, are you willing to take a one to twenty percent chance tonight that you're going to ruptu your Achilles tendon to play in the NBA Finals? I mean, look, Jonas LeVar and listeners, how would you answer that question. I think the majority of people would say yes, not everyone, and you wouldn't criticize someone for saying no. But I think if there's a decision to be made, the decision should be made by the patient slash player, and of course the coaches time into this as well. A lot of times a discussion in season, do you want to play. This guy, he could play, but he's eighty percent on his hamstring. Is the backup cornerback worth eighty percent this guy? And if he reaggravates that, you're going to miss him for six weeks. What's the decision making between the player, the medical and the coach here? The coach is going to say and the player is going to say, it's game seven, Okay, we'll deal with the consequences after game seven. This is what we work for and kind of thing. Not pushing the guy to play, but as soon as he wants to play, I don't see a team or coach stopping him. Look, if there's permanent damage where he would never play basketball again or never walk again, then the doctor should have stopped Tyreeve Haliburton period and the discussion. But that's not the situation here. If it was explained to him what might happen and the fact that he might lose next season, and he rolls the dice to try and help his team, I don't think anyone should be criticized. If anything, Aliburton should be applauded and saying he left it all out there for his team, but unfortunately this has happened.
He is doctor David Chow joining us here on Fox Sports Radio. Get him on x at Pro Football Doc, official injury expert for Fox Sports Radio. He's got live injury analysis at Sports Injuries Central. Rather x NFL head team doctor for seventeen plus years, Doctor Chow, we appreciate you waking up early and let's do it again soon.
Thank you. I hope blood and achilles.
Like no, who knows, who knows? Yeah, they're dropping left and right, but no, we appreciate it. Doctor, Thank you, Thank you. There he is the great, doctor David Chow.
That is.
It's just it's kind of wild that you basically just kind of roll the dice. Yeah, this this might happen, Like even if it's just a single percent chance that it might happen. He really did make the commitment, he made the choice, and just trying to grab a ball that was out in front of him and it pops and that's that gone for next year as well too.
It's pretty curious to think if he didn't play, how much he would be judged for not playing, and yet it would have most likely been the right decision to make twenty twenty.
Hindsight, it would have been the right decision.
But getting the opportunity to see him actually fully rupture it, it's like, oh, he probably shouldn't have played.
Yeah, and it's they didn't just lose one NBA finals last night, they lost two. So they lost two NBA finals because they lost last night and they were significantly impacted when he went down. And then if he's going to be out for the entirety of next year, they're not winning a title without him next year. Yeah, so you basically lost two championships in one night on one play with one achilles rupture.
But you can't hold it against him. No, you know, one thing you can't do is say that he wasn't there.
He didn't. He tried to get through it.
So yeah, it's just crazy because we would have been calling him every bit of a diva and he got no chin and yeah, super soft, all these different things people would have used as describing had he not played, and he plays, and you know that happened. So it's unfortunate, it really is. You hate to see that happen to him, but it's interesting that he did. He did try. He said it was painful, and they did Doctor Child said they was taping that bad boy ut. They was putting all kinds of tape, all kinds of different areas on his leg.
Man, when they was wrapping it up.
I don't know if you saw that footage, like the pregame, they were showing him like they were stemming him. They was wrapping it. They were doing all kinds of stuff to treat it. The way I saw them putting the stem on it, I knew it was his achilles tended, you know.
But that's just that's just wild to see it happen.
When I felt it, I felt mine was vibe rating, like it vibrated for about a month, a good month before it ruptured. And I literally was not putting any real pressure on my on my foot when it went, so it had to have been by a thread that I probably was. That thing was unraveling by the day, you know, so, but it was vibrating.
I could feel it vibrating like I could feel it now I can.
I can remember in the Atlanta game, I hit it and it went like I could feel it going.
I was like, hey, I tapped my helmet, like hey, hey, I need this.
Ub I came off the field that thing, that thing didn't feel right, man, And then not not too long after that, like I'm just standing there, Jason Me and Jason Whitten are engaged and I'm just standing there and it just went pow. I could hear it. I heard it. I heard it, and I thought it was a guy that hit me, you know. Antonio pierces like who hit you?
Var?
Who hit you? Who hit you? And we're looking around like who hit me? Who hit me?
What?
Who did it?
I'm looking at Wit and Witten's looking at me. We went and puts his hands up like, hey, bro, ain't nobody hit you. I'm looking around like this can't be right. And then then the realization set in that there was no one moving away from hitting me. For one for two, that definitely sounded like I had got gotten hit. I just popped my Achilles tenant one hundred percent. I got to that point. I got to that conclusion pretty quickly. And then just start looking around like here comes t O, like hey, Yokvar was like get out of my face.
Man.
I just wanted to like take in the last moments like I knew that was it. I was done, that was it. That was my last play, and I knew it was my last play. That was it kind of sucks. That's wild, But that's not how Ler Burton's situation, which is a good thing. That's not going to be endo him. But I just it was definitely the end of me.
And it does sound like yours was gonna go regardless there was going on. There was no preventative possibility there.
I was stretching that joint. I was.
I was rehabbing it, prehabing it, whatever you want to call it. I was stemming it. I was doing the ice tubs, I was doing the boots. I was Jonas, there was not one. I acupunctured it everything. I did everything that you could possibly do preventatively to try not to, you know, to rupture.
It, because I felt my heel was tight. I felt it.
I was doing the incline board every day like for like minutes, like literally ten to fifteen minutes. I'd be stretching that bad boy out, both of them. Just stretch out, stretch your back out, stretch your it bands out, stretch you know, stretch your hamstrings, like just stretching everything to try to make sure that you were flex the boll and that that thing did not it went anyway.
Damn