H m m m. Hey there, ship heads, welcome back to your favorite video game podcast, one Upsmanship. I'm one of your hosts, Adam Cancer and with me the Beautiful, the Bold, Mr Michael Swain. I bet they don't like it as much now that you call them ship heads. I think they like that. Come on, good, right into Michael and let him know if you like the cold chip heads or not. Uh. We have a really fun idea for an episode today that arose organically out of us just having a chat on a stream where we thought, you know what, this would just be a fun discussion to have on our podcast. Asked, so this is that? Imagine sitting there being friends organically naturally, there's nothing for uced or commercial about it. You're there at bit, you're part of the group, you're in. It's it's comfy, it's cozy, it's familiar. It's probably it's probably us trying to figure out the summon system in Elden Ring, right, Like, that's probably part of what's going on if I'm following that game correctly. Absolutely, I don't know if anyone's following that game correctly, but definitely that's what's going on. Uh. And the concept here is we wanted to talk about, uh, game mechanics that we thought should have gotten adopted by more video games, or should in the future than then they have. Right, So games that deserve a little game mechanics that deserve a little bit more of a widespread use. Uh So this is the kind if this is where your your standard climbing mechanic from Breath of the Wild, conversation goes intentionally avoided that one because that's the one it's been sad r right, But that's the kind of thing that we're going to talk about today. I also put that on the list as a wife everyone works in the gaming industry is like, yeah, you would have thought that would have taken off. Yeah, and yet it didn't. Yeah, weird. It's probably because it's hard to do. Yeah, probably. So, so that's what we're gonna do. We each have five and uh, we're gonna steadfastly discuss, maybe disagree. Who knows, Uh, some of the mechanics we thought, Hey, this deserves a little bit more time in video games. You want to start us off, Mike, sure, Adam, thank you, Mike. Uh. The fifth of five in my series of game mechanics I think should be used more, and I interpreted it as used more in the future. So are you are you ranking them just like fifth most? Like is the number one the best one? Let's say, yeah, great, okay, great, Um let me see if three in four makes sense in that way. I like that you're bothering, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They are so wonderful. Um. Labyrinthine levels that aren't open world and unlockable shortcuts as seen in the Tiny Tina's Wonderland's over world from some games before Eldon Ring. Prior to Eldon Ring, Food the Cave and indie game I Love had the same layout missed. I'll point out missed. You'd navigate the worlds and you'd be like, oh, I opened up this log flume, now I can get there more easily. Um. And what I'm really talking about here is curation of thought space, because I do think it was a huge deal for us to realize through Ocarina, Time, Grand Theft, Auto Three other games like this, the promise of open world and the promise of these things. These consoles we have, these PCs. They can generate a world that has lived in that just has looping behaviors that you can wander around freely. Great. Great, We've done that for a long time. And this is where the boldness of my stance comes in. I'm done with it. I'm done with open world I think I think we've explored it enough. I would like the next artistic movement to be taking a page from from Soft and even though from soft like from softer or not my favorite games, as has been well documented on this show, but I want but Seafood is one of my favorite games, and I really want more curation of my experience in a way where it feels like video games don't have to keep flexing nuts like they can be. Like, look, so remember how it's It's historically been a thing where every open world game is like square footage wise, this is the largest open world that's ever been created ever by that's always what they say. I get it. You could make a flat plane that's so long that running across it is a chore. Good for you. I want curation of spaces, and I think I'm gonna win. Like, I think that's happening. I think we're moving into an era of um more focus and less need to just focus on square footage. One thing that I like about those kinds of games is when the shortcut ends up being something intuitive that you didn't expect. Like that's actually one of the fun things about a Dark Souls game is when you've gone and like murdered so many zombie soldiers and you're like, god, with this ever end, and then you pull a lever or whatever and like a drawbridge forms and you're like, oh my god, that's the same. Yeah, thank thank god, you know, and you're and like you're not even annoyed by it, You're just thrilled that they are letting you say finally, so like what you're actually asking for a save points, like you know, like like more like collection, like the ability to to make a player have to get from one point to other before they can say. And I mean, I'm a big Psychonauts lover, I love uh. I just think the idea of intentionally, I get it. You can you can render the whole world or a modicum of like what a world would be. I want to see some intentionality again. I would love for the I see curated experience to become the norm for a while, because I feel like we've been doing the open world thing is a dominant form of storytelling for quite a while. Now I'm ready to go back tightly curated spaces. Well, and I think that the reason I think you might be right about this is that the open worlds that really feel like an open world now are the ones that are not curated like like I like, I think people start to get the experience that open world is always used to provide from things like elden Ring and the Wild now, and not from grand Theft autos or really more grand Theft Auto clones where it's a hybridization like Last of Us to where there's an open world component, or I would argue even Eldon, where it's an open world connected to a series of classic from soft Labyrinths. For sure. I think there's something too like feeling like you're in clear either in one of two clear sets of waters, where it's like, now go explore and find cool stuff. That's one thing, or now you're going to run this gauntlet and don't worry. It's been carefully mapped out so that you don't have to do it a bunch of times when you get what I mean, like the banks, your progress. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think those are two distinct experiences. Uh, And I don't think most games can do them both. Well, Uh, okay, I'm with you on that. I would share my imagine an Assassin's Creed with Latynthine levels that you had to find shortcuts to bank your progress. I just I just think it's a cool I agree. I think I think Assassin's Create in general should move away from that, from the open world thing they're doing. I totally agree with that. Um, Okay, shall I introduce my first one? Okay, this is my fifth, so my least important uh, and that is rewinding instead of death. I primarily got this from Braid, but also from Super Nintendo Online. It's like a feature they having a lot of. Yeah, So, like, I think one of the worst feelings is dying and then waiting for the game to reload. Um. Even though games are tried, have tried painfully to sort of like shorten that time, that weight is always frustrating. Especially yeah, especially if uh, you're waiting to fight a boss again, or you're waiting to fight some like overcoming obstacle and then the game makes you wait before you can try it again. Um, or you die and then you have to do a whole section of a level over again. You're like, man, I already did this, Like why do I have to do it again? I think the rewind thing, I know it doesn't fit for every single game. I'm not saying it does, but I think there's a lot more games where it's like, look, I don't really need to run this part of the level again or start over with the boss because you're not that kind of game. Just let me, you know, go back halfway like you know, I don't know five ten seconds in the middle of it. Well, I don't think most games need to be hard. I think some of them need to be hard, but like I don't I understand that challenge and this rewind thing would be they would have to negotiate, right, But like, for instance, especially an older game. Now, if I'm playing an older game now, it's like, no, don't make me die anymore, like I'm playing like an old Mario game or whatever. I totally agree with Nintenno's philosophy on that. No, I can just rewind now because it's not about experiencing the cut edge thing and like overcoming it. It's a nostalgia trip, so why interrupt it, you know what I mean? Uh? And I just think a lot of games could could live with the knowledge that you're not the hardest game in the world. Man, you know, I mean, you don't need to be hard like you could be Kirby. It's okay, and that's a good experience, you know what I mean. And maybe it's a thing you can toggle off and on us. I'm pro Yeah, yeah, I mean I get that again. I understand some people not gonna want that because they want the hard experience. But how many times have you sat through a frustrated black screen simulating the Great Sleep of Death waiting to load up again? Probably hours of your life? Right? Oh yeah, I want those back for you. I want those back for your It probably does, unless you have a health problem. It probably does. Hey, So we're gonna be right back after these messages with a few more mechanics we'd like to see elsewhere, seeing a bit and we're back. So swim. What's your number two? Well, number four if we're counting forgive me? Is that forgive me? You started with your least important right, all right? Same? So my number four mechanics that should be in more games is contextual glory kills, and they're in a lot of games. You might be thinking of, do maternal God of War. Mortal Kombat started at all with the fatality, which is in its own way as a contextual glory kill. Um Arkham and Spider Man you have contextual finishers. Seafood has contextual finishers. You know how. There's basic things that have been codified, like press X to jump if it's a game where jumping is a thing. Yeah, I think press triangle and circle at the same time to do a glory kill should be codified and should be like a thing we do from now on in most games with killing and the one of glory kills. And I thought when I thought it would feel like my time is wasted, I don't ad them. I don't feel like my time is wasted. I feel like it's a little moment to celebrate. It's the equivalent of the f F seven victory theme every time I snapped some demon's neck. I love it so much. I'm with you on that. But one thing Doom does is it rewards you for doing it, like you get more health and to play with it. Yeah, I'm saying more roused exploration of pre animated. What I think really sells it is we're allowing character animation to just stand on its own as like do me a favorite dude, press triangle circle because your character is going to do some wild ship right now, and then you just get to watch it. So look at this ship we animated. I know it's hand, but it's in the flow of the game play. So this is Compare this to quick time events, which were like our previous idea was, hey, in the middle of a cut scene, which is like a movie and you don't have any input, suddenly surprised you have to press a button or you're fucked. Um. This is a much better system, which is you're already pressing buttons, you're in the flow, press a button and get a little cut scene. It's flipping the paradigm, and I think it's much more tenable. Like glory kills are dope, quick time of it gives you a little free a free moment from the intensity you're doing something awesome. You're still in your role playing brain crushing, like you're not pausing the game or anything. Yeah, I mean I see, yeah, I see how it could be really good for a number of games. I mean there's some games obviously, like I would not want to see Mario's brain Brain Brain a cop you know, like have to a thousand times do some animation where you crush a coopa. Yeah, yeah, maybe you'd like to see that once that I can see maybe some people would like to see that. Okay, I dig that. That's an interesting mechanic. Uh. Fourth thought, all right, I know, because let's to argue with, let's to argue with. I think as we get higher on the list there might be more to argue with. But well, okay, that's fair. There's nothing to argue with there. Uh this one, I think you will argue with a little bit. Uh number four people in video Yeah no, uh so uh? I think more games could have the radio feature from Grand Theft Auto and or actually would prefer this. The ability to add your own music to the game, like games like Cryptive necro Dancer or what crypt of necro Dancwer others. The ability to include music uh into the game or even yes yes, yes so interoperability with your playlist absolutely, Like why should I have to drive anywhere really in any game without being able to either hear a cool soundtrack I like or music I like just period, Like, let me vibe out for a bit. If I'm going to have to do the driving. If you don't want me to do the driving, don't include it. Do like do only fast travel? Right? But so many games, like even games where I know you're gonna think this is kind of controversial, things like you know, riding a horse in ancient times or whatever. I think they could give you a selection of songs that you could hear that might fit thematic. Some nine inch nails while I'm riding that horse. Exactly, give podcast tell me about history while I'm marching through the extinct areas of Alexandria. Yeah, exactly, No, for real, I think I think games could get a little bit more gamy about that kind of stuff. Wealth counselor. I feel like that has to be very narrowly controlled, because I'll just say this narrative, you're free to listen to any music you want on a separate device while you're playing any game you want. We already had that ability. Uh. Interesting, I guess my gut instinct is I feel like it dilutes the narrative, like you wouldn't go into a movie theater and go I don't understand why I can't listen to my favorite murder while I watched this movie in the theater. It's like, well, because we're focusing on the thing, it's a piece of art we're supposed to focus on. But do you object to things like skipping the theme song or like skipping through the credits at the end of Netflix? Like, are you an outrage about that? Now I edit my multimedia, I mean from my own that's what this would be. That's what interesting because I guess I just don't know. This raises a whole huge question that I could really dig into. But I would have like, is that good for humanity to like change are because now you're basically talking about editing levels of information. I think there's a lot of studies that point to the fact that multitasking is a myth and that our focus is kind of singular, and so it's weird to be like, let's dilute this experience by adding another stream of information, And well, I think that they're already I'm I'm not saying added to a thing where it isn't already there, you know what I mean. I'm not for the most part, I'm not. You're saying games that already would have a soundtrack, make it programmable, yes, or make the soundtrack yeah, yeah, make it programmical for the most part. Yeah, and also consider consider soundtracking some stuff that uh is really just sort of menial tasks stuff. Consider that, like considered letting us soundtrack. I'd go one step further and say, cut the menial task parts of your game, as in going into your screenplay and cut all the transaction scenes. Same same rule. Okay, that's an interesting comment. Uh, let games be shorter, cut the filler. That's a big thing for me. I will say that anytimes on this podcast. I mean there's tons of games like Cyberpunk or like again Grand Theft Auto or you know, uh, games like that chains Row where you know, you spend time traveling because they want you to be immersed in the world. Do you have to most of those games except for Grand the Thought or like no, you can skip there. But I also I'm like, well, but I'd like to be immersed. I think the problem is that one of the things that helps get immersed, which is like you know, vibing on my own tunes and stuff or my own set of info, I can't do, you know, And I think that would be better for for the literal thing they're trying to accomplish. So I understand it's boutique interest, but I thought i'd include what's your number three, sir? My number three is enemies with different parts that fall off of them. And this is all inspired by Horizon Forbid West and here's where the turn happens. I will say much more about this on the episode where we cover it. But the reason I'd like to see more people experiment with the idea of armor pieces or I mean, Horizon does pieces that you can explode if you'd use a matching element, and it also does pieces that give you bonus it right, like, uh, it's a treasure box. If you knock it off, you can collect it um. But the idea of enemies in a game having various components that matter if you hit, like Vats from Fallout plays with it a little bit because you can cim it different and then different do different status effects like cripple the legs and then they can't run. But uh, I would like to see even more games play with dead Space too, with the d limming of things, I would love to see even more games. See that's three different interpretations right there, and I think they're all fruitful and interesting, and I'm doubly spurred on by the fact that I don't inc and I'll unpack this in depth when we cover it. I don't. I think Horizon is a beautiful proof of concept for villains, for batties that have ship attached to them that you knock off. I actually don't think they nailed it, and I want to see other other games take swings at the idea of enemies that have a bunch of parts. I just think that's really cool, and it's something that we've explored, and every time we explored it from a different angle, it usually yields an interesting result, and so I would just love to see more companies like do that. It's it's so hard to revolutionize the idea of what is a batty when you're going to interact with, you know, a video game world, like what is the enemy? And almost always there a monolithic thing that has a hit box and hit points and attacks and you kill them by whittling down their health bar. Anything that obviates that or complexifies that is really cool to me. So I am in love with the idea of like enemies that are made up of distinctive parts. I think that's what made Golden Eye Double O seven. So notable was it was the first game where shooting someone in the head had a different result than shooting in them in the leg, and there was just the animation. But anyway to play with that, anyway to play with the fact that living creatures are actually systems of things. I think it's really cool. I mean, the tricky thing about that is that Horizons system is based on the fact that the robots. That means I'm well, I think you should Uh, it's mostly that. Like, I think the cool thing about Horizons system is that the machine seemed to be able to function largely intact until like, you know, you really stabbed the light out of their processor. Whereas you lop off a dude's arm, he's not really okay to keep fighting, you know. Uh. Like, so it tends to be a little bit or of a how do you kill this? Like it's a way of killing it that's sort of more gruesome. Like again, Dead Space got a little bit more playful with it. So maybe maybe I'm just not forward thinking enough and I just think this is insidiously everywhere. Like it dates all the way back to two d Mario games that introduced the idea of a turtle that you hit it once and it separates into two pieces, and then you hit it again and each piece has a different behavior. That's okay, ship, I want to see us explore that in every possible way, every permutation of it. Yeah. No, no, I mean, you know, how can I Why would I get upset at that? Well, there's so many enemies. I agree with you, Like, so many games have humanoid enemies, and humanoid enemies seem to work as hit them in the head and they die. More hit them anywhere else and they die. And I just think there's ways to revolutionize that that we haven't even thought of yet that I trust developers will come up with. It would be really hyped to play. It would probably involve moving away from guns, right, That's the thing about it from guns for a second. I completely agree. I mean, like, I don't know if I've really seen the zombie game. I guess dead space at the zombie game where like, you know, you really do have to like squash specifically the brain for it to stop moving. Uh, like in it being done as well as it could be done, Like, I think there is room to get more creative about it. Yeah, or like a zombie that's smart enough to use its own body as a weapon, for instance, or you know, just that that kind of thing would be interesting. Um, you've got a lot of gore on your list today. What's going on with you? Violence? Glory, kills and stuff that falls off enemies and then and there and kidneys and everything they've ever loved. Maybe you can collect their kidneys and make a sweet little necklace out of them or something, right, you know, get real creative with it. Okay, So you bear with me on this one. I know you're gonna disagree. We'll all survive this. Number two, right, number three? Number three? Okay, Number three is a feature I saw specifically in Super Mario Odyssey, and it's a feature called the Balloon Race. Have you seen the Balloon Race? You know what I'm talking about. Your hat makes you turn into a dinosaur? No, no, no, it's it's so. Here's how it works. So like what happens is a player can record you. It's it's like an extra thing that was put onto Super Mario Odyssey after the fact, and it's like through Luigi, a player can go in the world and create basically a time trial by getting to a location and planting a balloon within a certain period. Yes, yes, yes, Tide and Seek, but also it's like a speed trial. Um. I think so many games could benefit from letting players do that p VP where one person sets the tone and then the other person tries to match this. Yeah, that is really fun mechanic that could be used widely, and it's like it's kind of gone largely unnoticed by the video game community, almost like Horse the basketball game. It's like Horse, It's exactly what it's like, and it's so crazy that you're not seeing it in things like uh, I don't know, Assassin's Creed, you know what I mean, Like the games the amount of time and then you yeah, like literally, hey, I put this balloon on the or whatever you want to put a rose or whatever if you want to make it tone specific on top of this mountain and you have forty five seconds to get there. Figure it out. Bro, I did it, you know what I mean? And like and and just another way for a game to have life if you like being in that world and operating as that uh as that character now I mean I and I say this without being a dick. Mar is one of the best care just to me to be because of his freedom of movement. But like, there are lots of ways to skin this idea that would fit elsewhere. Like I think there's a way to make a sort of a race creator in g t A and I mean race like driving around race speed trial. Uh that is like sure that is filled with obstacles or whatever, right where like it's not just in the car, they have to actually run through the small or whatever, and uh like, and that would be a fun challenge that goes really well into that game, you know. I think there's ways to think creatively about that. And the key ingredient that I think is really fun is it lets players get really good at the game and then challenge other players and keeps them in it, you know, without having to create curated content. And uh, I just don't think there's enough of that in video games period, Like let the this is like let the gamers make content for you, you know. Uh yeah, I just I thought that's such a great idea. I'd love to see it elsewhere. Balloon Race. Balloon Race was the concept. I have no pushback. That's fine. I accept that even if I put it in like I mean, obviously it belongs in Psycho Nuts but even if I put it in something like Doom Eternal or whatever, Oh, I think it works great and Doom Maternal. But yeah, yeah, right, it's like a it's a nailed, it's a nailed. Yeah. Yeah, it's catch the golden cock at them and squish him. Yeah, okay, yeah, you know, let players, let players invent content for you game designers. Well, it's a new it's a new realm of p VP. It's don't shoot at each other, it's take turns doing the run and seeing who's fastest at the run or not even fastest necessarily collects the most or kills the most or whatever. Yeah. The funny thing is it's actually more inclusive of the most PvP activities. Like it's the same thing as like I'm not going to play one on one basketball with most people because I'm not in shape enough to do that. But I'll play a horse with a lot of people. Yeah exactly, you know, because horse is easier to play, and it's really it doesn't require the same level of expertise and you know, cheese in the game and stuff the way one on one would. Anyway, what is your fourth or your second type of second my number two, my number two mechanic that should be in more games. One of my David Letterman is big twist endings instead of final bosses. Oh right, that's what I expect some pushback on. So to give an example, yeah, the Last of Us. What is memorable about that is not the final boss or so in the Dawn of or uh red Dead too. The memorable thing is the twist of what befalls your character. I think the final boss is slightly secondary to that, even though because it's plot driven, you you remember who you kill in the end. Um the big twist was like, oh what befell me? Wow? Um BioShock infinite. Right. So I this is I guess a me planting my flag as a story first guy. But I really put this in because I want to make the argument that there was a time in gaming history where final bosses were the ship, and that's what it was all about. In fact, the original iteration of this podcast was called final Bosses, and we're still called one upsmanship when we kind of build ourselves as like the final boss like boss as a concept. Right, I'm not knocking it. It's a great it's done gaming well, but I do think we're in an age where and I just think it's interesting to observe the passage of this concept um. Video games are finally catching up to other kinds of narrative media like literature and film, where it's more about how did that end and did extick the landing? Was there anything memorable or cathartic or resonant about the ending of that experience? And it's not like, oh, man, the final boss is a giant spinning turtle that you have to pump a hundred quarters in to defeat it. So I just want to celebrate that. I think gaming has matured to the point that every game has a unique instance or a unique opportunity to make it about whatever wants to be about, versus what is the thing that you kill at the end. That is not always the case anymore, and I want to push us even further in that direction. I think it's I think we should start letting go of the idea of a final boss being important, which I know is a big deal. A lot of games still really enshrining the idea of the final boss. But I think the final boss, I guess that's my big statement here. I don't know why I'm treating it like this is a social issue or a social cause. But I'm like, final boss is time have past? I think artistically or beyond final bosses now, well as a necessity found the boss, time as a necessity has past, right, Yeah, And I think it's more vibrant of a landscape if we focus more on what's the story I want to tell and what's the natural or surprising end to that arc, just like people do in other media, versus starting the game from the position of, well, this is a game where you punch, so what's the last thing you punch? Sure's less interesting to me. I'm with you on that, but I think even in the all the cases that you brought up, they still have like what they're doing is they're spreading the final boss thing over a level. So like you have a level that's like the last of Us is shooting your way out of the hospital. Yeah, well that's and that that hospital is hard, right, But it's a level instead of a singular about single boss, right, So they still do the thing of you must pass this final challenge to be free, like to finish the game, but it's not a single like being it's a it's a level, you know. I even like it when the penultimate boss is really hard and then the boss boss final boss is not that hard, so that you can feel that momentum of finishing the game and wrapping it up and not having to wait until tomorrow. But the third act resolution thing, I mean, I don't have a problem with this because I do think we both see the need for you must you must third act this story where like it gets, it's the hardest it's ever going to be, and it's the most cathartic it's ever gonna be. Video games are an escalating series of challenges, right, stories are that, and stories are that, you know, so like that has to happen. I agree that it doesn't need to be. It doesn't need to have hit points for us to think that it was satisfying and cathartic um. But like again, and every single even Red Dead Too has final levels that are very you know, even if they're not harder, they're more hard shooting levels. But at the same time, when I ask you what is the final boss of Red Dead Too, I think, with a smirk, you might say, or my or Mica, because there is a really it's disease, which is that's so cool way better. Well they again those Well but you say bowser. But like Super Mario Brothers, the very first one you bowser was just one more hurdle to run past. You never bought him or demolished the bridge underneath them, right, which was just sort of the last step of a very challenging level. Yeah. Well, and and like the level was hard, Yeah, exactly, Like so this idea is actually not that new. Uh yeah, I don't have a problem with this. I'm just sort of like chewing on it a little bit um invalid and I shouldn't have said it, and I'm bad. I've been trying to invaluate what you said. I'm just saying because I think a lot of games do feel like you have to have the final boss. Like a lot of games fall into that, like even when they're don't when they haven't really had boss fights. Now there is about back about my favorite games over the last five ten years. I realized with a start that I didn't remember the final bosses. And if you take the ten years before that, I could tell you every final boss. Like that's the first thing I could say, is like, oh, at the end of Kid Chameleon, you fight this big skewer of heads. Oh, at the end of Sonic you fight you know the robotic that's in the Mac so right, that's bosses were so enshrined. I think it's interesting that that's falling away. Well, and there's games where I think the finnel boss kind of sucks because they shouldn't have had it, like Frank Fontaine and BioShock. Yes, I was going to bring that up. Yeah, Like I think, and I still feel like a lot of games that don't need a final boss because they have their story on lock feel obliged to have a final boss, and then you get the Frank Fontane effect where you're like, that game was such a great story. Oh. Also, at the end you fight a giant mutant. Why it's a video game. You gotta fight and you have to have it right side giant. But I didn't because the final boss was me, yeah, would you kindly that's the boss, and it's like, that's fucking awesome. Yeah. I agree that there's like a five percent of video games that could lose a boss at the end, like they're like, I think that's a I could see that in some places, right, not Seafood though, Just for the record, not seafood. You gotta have yang, Yeah, exactly. Some but if you're gonna have a yang, I wanted to be like a person I'm looking forward to beating. Like that's the thing. That's That's the other half of your comment is like, either make the final boss somebody I care about, or make it something that I uh, or get rid of it like spoilers Horizon Forbidden West boss was kind of a bummer. I thought, already forgotten what that is, and I just I just, yeah, we'll talk about it. I remember the ending of the story. I forget who the final boss is. I think that's it was. It was a max suit just to help. Yeah, anyway, So okay, well that brings up my my number two, uh, my number two, And I think you're gonna like this. I really do candy for everyone, candy for Michael Swim. And I was just getting why don't more games have a built in HUD like dead Space, like actually build a diagetic HUD. Yes, a diagetic HUD like dead Space. Uh, that's like that is not that new of a game. It's been around for like fifteen years almost. And the HUD rules and the getting rid of the unnecessary clutter on the screen makes the horror so visor role um and so rewarding. Now, I will say I've been seeing games lately do stuff like, uh, the more dynamic hug Like again, Horizon Forbidden West did this um where you know they take away stuff when you don't pretty readily and it only ends up when you need it. Yeah. Yeah, but in general, HUD's well necessary at times, Uh just distract from the world the gamers have, the game designers have made. And dead Space isn't that creative And I've never seen it anywhere else, right, Like, there's gotta be a way, Yeah, there's gotta be creative ways to think about putting it on your character or in a way that's innocuous so that I can be viscerally like, because you really are more immersed in the game when there's no HUD. You know, I agree with that in theory. Yeah, so, like, I mean, I understand that's a sci fi concept and it may be hard to apply to say, you know, Mario or whatever. I was trying to think about elden Ring and I'm like, what would it be ruins around your head or what. I don't know how you get rid of this. It would require some thought in each specific instance. Yeah, but they have and they have to work very hard. Like that would not be an easy thing to do. You're saying, if that became an industry standard expectation, it would be pretty cool, it would It would make I honestly like the effect on the game is dramatic. Like it's as dramatic as color correction is to a movie, where it's like it's color correction the most important thing. No, but it's a thing you can instantly see the impact from, you know, like it makes a dramatic difference on all the rest of the work you did. So yeah, man, build me a hud on my spine for every character or something. And with that, we're gonna go pay some bills and stick around after and you'll hear our number ones see you then? Okay, it's now number one time? Uh swam? What's your most desired video game mechanic? Hey, guess what? Here comes a twist. It's big twist endings that our final bosses. Oh, my pick itself is a twist because you didn't think I was gonna do twist twice, but I did. I did the second. My number one is also twists. But what I mean by twist endings that our final bosses is I mean things like uh Red Dead one, where the very final thing you do is play as your own child. The very final thing you do is get shot and then play as your own child, or The Walking Dead, where the very final thing you do the final boss is the concept of what we pass on to those who will survive us. Or Portal Too, where the final Bob, the solution to the final puzzle that kills the final boss, is also a mind bending summation of all the puzzles that have come before, in the form of Shoot the Moon or The Forgotten City, where the final boss is a conversation with an order god that that explains everything that's been going on and reveals all the twists. And what I'm really getting at is I think that a unique thing about video gaming as a medium is that any time a game gets over, let's say, twenty hours to navigate, because films are what four hours if you're talking Zack Snyder cuts or less usually less, usually three, usually two, and and my point is that allows you to tell a cohesive short story where it's reasonable to expect the person's brain who's imbibing it to hold all the plot points in their head at once a video game, and I like that. I'm seeing video games more and more than are five hours, four hours, three hours. I think that's a useful category to exist. But your average video game, because for whatever reason, there's a lot of factors we as a culture have decided, you know, twenty two eighty two hours, depending on the genre of game, is the quote unquote appropriate length of a game. You will find repeatedly, first of all, just structures that screenwriters would laugh at, like structures where I mean, this is what we make fun of with side quests, right, structures where you don't get to the point because it's got to be an eight hour game. So you have tangent after tangent after tangent. But that has become the accepted norm of video game storytelling, and a lot of genres is just tangent after tangent, spinning your wheels, slowly building the main plot. And I guess what I'm getting at is I think, in some ways, at present, kind of the best a video game can hope for is an ending that is somehow all I'm going to hold him. I love story and with most long video games, all I hold in my head are the very basics of the plot, the hook, like the premise, and then what whatever the ending is plays upon that hook. Right, So, I think the best narrative games can hope for is figure out your premise, state your premise over and over again so that we absorb it, and then have the ending be a big twist on that premise. And I that would be cheap in film, like or you could argue that that's a little hackey in film, but I think that's the level of storytelling that video games are at. Like, I think the most engaging video games to me, and I think it's conducive to the length of games is games where the final boss is somehow in a metaway connected to the whist. It's like the punchline of the plot is the final boss is the final action you take, and it all wraps up nicely. And I know that's like hard, what I mean, what I'm saying takes a lot of words to explain, but I can explain it as simply as the examples again, right like Portal two does this, um, I think Fallout New Vegas does this. It's not a twist. But it's like the Final Boss of New Vegas quote unquote is the final battle, which, going into you understand will determine one of three possible four possible outcomes for this universe, and you throw your lot in with one of the sides and you win and you find out the ending like and I just think the endings of games should be more tied into the boss, should be the concept. So I think, I think what you're diagn I think you're actually diagnosing a problem more than offering a solution. And the problem is that the third act feels tacked on and more like an action climax than like Pin has involved so much spinning of your wheels in most it's it's partly that, and it's also partly action movie syndrome, right where it's like, well, now we got to go to the big tower and have the big blow up before time runs out or whatever, and and you're not really invested in time running out per se um. I get that. So, like, let me ask you this question, So what about a game like Mass Effect two. Um. Mass Effect two very famously has a big last mission um, and I don't remember if there was a oh, there is a Last Boss. The Last Boss was very stupid, although it was a twist, uh, but like the last mission itself is sort of a you you make a bunch of choices about who you put in wear, and you know it causes some people to die, in some people not to die. But it's very clearly like the stakes are very high and they matter, and you've been final Boss is essentially not a monster you fight, but your choice. The final Boss. You do fight a monster, but you do fight a monster. And I guess what I'm arguing for is that I think most games would benefit from the final boss being the final choice you make rather than a monster you fight, right, Like, it's really more like do you destroy the planet or not? Like it's yeah, and that's sort of what Mess Effect three tried to do the end of the story success. Yeah. Yeah, so but like in concept, would you say Mass Effect three is ending? Is what you're advocating for? Is that the one where you just pick a color of light? Yes, but because that seemed lame to me. It's lame the way they did it. But the concept was you decide the fate of humanity based around Yeah, that's one acceptable, Like that's very new Vegas or Fallout. Right, it's like you pick which faction wins history, and that's the ending that's acceptible to me. My favorite of all are the ones that also comment upon interactivity itself, like Port two where you shoot the moon, because that's like, oh man, I didn't even know I could do that. At the last second. The way to win this game, the final boss, so to speak, is yet another instance of I have to think outside the box, which is what the game has been all about through and through um so that I think it's like kind of the best video game can hope for because it's not natural for human to ingest a seventy hour experience and remember every little plot detail. I agree with that, Yeah, I agree with that. It's like it's almost like, if you could fix BioShock, you would have put the thing with Andrew Ryan at the very end of the game, and that would have been the thing you're asking for, right, That's right? Or like, obviously we watched TV series and if they go ten seasons, then we have hundreds of hours of information in our heads. But I just find with a video game because I play it in between moments of life and I plug in and plug out and I, you know, do these tasks that are on a list, my quest menu or what have you. I can't really watch it the way I would watch a series linearly know what you want to. So I think a game sort of reflexively commenting upon its own structure at the end is what video games do best. And I wish every game did that. I say with hesitation, because I never want everything to be the same. But I think my favorite games all do that. I'll just say that. Okay, I think your favorite art does that too. I am a structuralist. My favorite art comments upon the medium that it is within. Yeah you love meta commentary, it's your and and poetic arts for it. Yeah you love it, and that's fine. There's something wrong with that. I'm still trying to like boil this down to a thing, but actually I shouldn't. Videos games are all about out. The essence of the medium is interactivity. That's what differentiates it from every other medium. So all I'm saying is the final resonant, searing image or line or experience that I want from an interactive piece of media is a choice. I want the final boss, so to speak, to be a choice. Yeah, yeah, okay, that actually is a pretty good distillation, like let me let me not overcome an obstacle, but instead make a meaningful choice about the universe I'm in thoroughly brands me as like a story forward guy, which I am unabashed. Yeah that's okay. Well, I also almost every game I've ever done that in I've liked that even if I didn't agree with the choice, Like even Mess vict three, I'll never find myself thinking like should I wish there was a giant monster? I thought like I never missed that. No, No, I never missed the final boss because I've already fought my way through thousands of monsters or whatever. Right, it's the ending I remember, not the boss. I totally agree with with Rare said. But okay, like exceptions, Akarina of Time is an exception, like if the whole if all you're about is fighting, you should probably fight at the end. I get it depends on the game. Okay, Well, mine is much more mundane. I'm pleased to announce because my number one is uh and I really feel strongly about this. Let us see when a room is clear of items, all resident Evil preach. Resident Evil has had this system forever where you're looking at the map and you can see is there still something here to discover? Okay, they don't tell you where or what, but they just give you that and you're like, okay, well, yeah, there's no reason why every single game cannot that has a map cannot do that for you like that. Yeah, Like I want to say Metroid does it too, but I might be wrong. Do I just think any game where you need to consult a map, like when you're doing a dungeon crawl, it should let you know when you don't need to be in here and find stuff anymore, and it should let you know when there is stuff here. So that's the thing again, dude, games are scared of They're like, then you'll to efficiently get through the game and the game will feel short. I think it is wearing off, but games still suffer under that stigma of like, game doesn't want to be short, game doesn't want to be short. And my feeling is like, uh, and I get that I'm older and like a fifteen year old kid, who this is there? You know, Christmas present is going to feel different, But like, we don't need games to be that long, you know what? They don't need to be that long, like, you know, we're paying seventy bucks like variety. I I understand the place for a game that you can send hundreds of hours into, did you want to? But everything feels the need to pad stuff out with things like well, there's no as travel in our games. You have to walk all the time, and you're like, you just did that to pad it out. There's all these excuses to make the game longer for no reason. I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of of a fifteen hour game, you know, or like even if it's like, uh, you know, I don't think a Ubisoft game like an Assassin's Creed that was thirty hours would be a bummar Yeah, thirty I think that'd be a fucking great I'd be all in on that. So, like, things like this are ways that the designer communicates to the to the game audience, we respect your time, and also we wanted to be fun and not frustrating. This is removing a key frustration that all that most gamers have, because most gamers are like me, and they're hungry for treats, and they want every single treat in the game, you know what I mean, Like, let us do that and make it easy on us, and don't make us go to a guide or a website to do it. Put it in the game. Um. And also, yeah, if it is about patting the length out, let me just tell you. There's not a single game I've ever played where I'd be mad if it was shorter, you know, I can't. I can't think of one where I'm like, oh, yeah, I wish it was shorter. I don't think so, you mean I wish it was longer. Uh no, yeah, the same we're saying the same thing. I wouldn't be mad if it was shorter, right, Yeah, I wouldn't be mad, Like pretty much any game I can think of, I'm sure there's like a few that are like, oh yeah, public exceptions were like oh that game was short. Yeah yeah. But for the most part, games games were out there welcome because they make you do stuff like this and it should not. And it's interesting that, like when you talk about movies right or above, of people who sat down to watch a movie finish that movie. Uh, And it's a rare exception when you're like I walked out of that movie or it's an interesting story, you're like I didn't even finish that movie fun that movie. UM. So many people, I would say, the majority, I think we know this statistically don't finish the video games they start most of the video games they start. I think that's a weird thing about the medium. I think the medium should be digestible. People should finish units of the medium more than not, like more than fifty of the time. Uh. It would be cool if video games were ingestible by the bulk of people who play them. Completely complete experience is important. It's why I don't think games should get harder for the same reason. It's like who, like, who's that appealing to? You know, like people who play so many games that they're board of I don't know, right, And and I'm like, as one of those people, I don't I don't mind. I don't mind that games are not always designed for me. Like I understand that not all of us, you know, are fortunate enough to play lots and lots and lots of video games, and that the game needs to be special. I think it being shorter also makes it special because it doesn't waste your time and you and I think everyone can feel that also. That's something I think we need to get over. Like, a ten hour experience is not short. It's ten hours. It's good, good amount of stuff. Yeah, I mean varience. Like if I went to a museum and looked at a painting for ten hours, I got my fucking money's worth, you know what I mean? Right? Video game is still the cheapest form of entertainment that I can think of, that or whatever. Yeah, that's that is actually consumable media, you know. I mean, I guess you could say YouTube and stuff is free, but you know, is it? I don't know. Anyway, that's a different conversation. Yeah. So well you're paying for it with your data, friend, that's what I mean by it anyway. Uh, Hey, that was that Those are some mechanics, mechanics we think should be in more games. Yeah, let us know if you agree or disagree. Yeah, we're happy to hear it. You can follow us on Twitter. Also, if you like this, you can go check out a Patreon that we run with chas much more podcast content, stuff about movies, stuff about shared media, depression, U news, politics, everything. We cover it all a little bit, uh, And you can find that on patreon dot com, Forward Slash small Beans that's where a lot of our other content is. Or if you're just a video game guy and just want to stay a ship head, hey, check it out. You can go check out all of our past one of some ship podcasts. They're all here on my heart wherever you get your podcasts. You can just search for it and find all of our back catalog, and there's quite a bit. That's right, that's the number one ups menship, one ups menship. That's right. You've been warned. This was fun. Let's do another one of these sometime, huh. All right, until then, audios work complete.