You're listening to one hundred words or less with Ray Harkins. What's up, everybody? Welcome to yet another episode in which we spend so much time talking about punk, hardcore, metal, emo, indie rock. As long as it is of the DIY variety. That is what we care about here, and that's what you care about. That's why you're listening to this thing. That's why you tripped across this show, whatever, a year ago, last week, whatever it is. You are welcome here, and you are welcome to spread the word as you see fit, even if it's just sharing stuff on social media. Helps out tremendously. But this week's episode is a little bit different because it's a little bit shorter. But for one, that's because I'm actually in the United Kingdom right now, so I'm traveling. It's tough to maintain all the release schedules, all that sort of stuff. But regardless, I have a very what i'd like to think is insightful and interesting conversation with my good friend Joey Cahill, the proprietor of Want to Hear At Records, and he is a deep nerd about this stuff like I am. And that's I mean that's why we became friends initially, and then I realized I liked him as a human being. And you know, it just goes on and on. But the question we are trying to ask, or trying to answer, because I ask it successfully, is why is hardcore so popular right now, which, of course we will not like answer succinctly because clearly there's a multitude of reasons. But it's a question that's been really just sitting in my brain for the past I would say, year, year and a half or so. But I noticed the tide changing as it were, probably like three or four years ago, where it just started to seem like show got bigger, there were more people interested in the genre. It didn't seem as like, I don't know, like when I'm just interacting with civilians. Like I'll give you a very real world example. I work at a very large company in the podcast based that is owned by one of the largest companies in the entire planet. And anyways, that just laying that groundwork. I had a friend who I work with, a just you know, run of the mill human, like great dude, love hanging out with him, but he came up to me one day and he was like, Hey, have you heard of this band called knocked Loose? And this was like shortly after they released the a single off the new record that was with Poppy totally playing on the song's name now, but regardless, it was, for lack of a better term, a civilian and I was like, yes, I am familiar with knock Loose. And we started to have a discussion about it, and you know, I was like, oh, yeah, you should listen to some of the interviews that I've done with members of the band on this very podcast that I host, And so anyways, we started talking about that. But that's not like the you know, inciting incident, so to speak. But it's just something that I think is worth having a dialogue about and worth having theories on. And there again, we're not going to arrive at a conclusion. There's a multitude of reasons why this is happening, but kind of put it out there to the ether is why I wanted to record this conversation and have it with my friend Joey where we could kind of theorize bound some stuff around and then hopefully get you thinking about it. Because I do think that when subcultures become more mainstream more popular. There are many aspects that are lost that all of us hold very dear, but there's so many positive things that come from it. So, like you know, it's a double edged sword, like many of these things are. But anyways, I have no bad opinions in regards to the fact that hardcore is really really popular, but you know, there are, like I said, there's trade offs and anyways, we talk a lot of bit about a lot a bit a lot about it, and yeah, so I'm excited to.

You're listening to one hundred words or less with Ray Harkins. What's up, everybody? Welcome to yet another episode in which we spend so much time talking about punk, hardcore, metal, emo, indie rock. As long as it is of the DIY variety. That is what we care about here, and that's what you care about. That's why you're listening to this thing. That's why you tripped across this show, whatever, a year ago, last week, whatever it is. You are welcome here, and you are welcome to spread the word as you see fit, even if it's just sharing stuff on social media. Helps out tremendously. But this week's episode is a little bit different because it's a little bit shorter. But for one, that's because I'm actually in the United Kingdom right now, so I'm traveling. It's tough to maintain all the release schedules, all that sort of stuff. But regardless, I have a very what i'd like to think is insightful and interesting conversation with my good friend Joey Cahill, the proprietor of Want to Hear At Records, and he is a deep nerd about this stuff like I am. And that's I mean that's why we became friends initially, and then I realized I liked him as a human being. And you know, it just goes on and on. But the question we are trying to ask, or trying to answer, because I ask it successfully, is why is hardcore so popular right now, which, of course we will not like answer succinctly because clearly there's a multitude of reasons. But it's a question that's been really just sitting in my brain for the past I would say, year, year and a half or so. But I noticed the tide changing as it were, probably like three or four years ago, where it just started to seem like show got bigger, there were more people interested in the genre. It didn't seem as like, I don't know, like when I'm just interacting with civilians. Like I'll give you a very real world example. I work at a very large company in the podcast based that is owned by one of the largest companies in the entire planet. And anyways, that just laying that groundwork. I had a friend who I work with, a just you know, run of the mill human, like great dude, love hanging out with him, but he came up to me one day and he was like, Hey, have you heard of this band called knocked Loose? And this was like shortly after they released the a single off the new record that was with Poppy totally playing on the song's name now, but regardless, it was, for lack of a better term, a civilian and I was like, yes, I am familiar with knock Loose. And we started to have a discussion about it, and you know, I was like, oh, yeah, you should listen to some of the interviews that I've done with members of the band on this very podcast that I host, And so anyways, we started talking about that. But that's not like the you know, inciting incident, so to speak. But it's just something that I think is worth having a dialogue about and worth having theories on. And there again, we're not going to arrive at a conclusion. There's a multitude of reasons why this is happening, but kind of put it out there to the ether is why I wanted to record this conversation and have it with my friend Joey where we could kind of theorize bound some stuff around and then hopefully get you thinking about it. Because I do think that when subcultures become more mainstream more popular. There are many aspects that are lost that all of us hold very dear, but there's so many positive things that come from it. So, like you know, it's a double edged sword, like many of these things are. But anyways, I have no bad opinions in regards to the fact that hardcore is really really popular, but you know, there are, like I said, there's trade offs and anyways, we talk a lot of bit about a lot a bit a lot about it, and yeah, so I'm excited to.

Bring you that conversation.

Bring you that conversation.

But you can always email the show one hundred Words podcast at gmail dot com. Respond to all emails, and you know, love to hear your thoughts and whatever it is that's on your mind, love to receive that as a repository for all of those thoughts. You can also leave a rating and review on the Apple podcast page helps out tremendously. Same thing on Spotify, except it's even easier. You just leave a rating on there. Just tap it on your mobile device. Some stars Boom, You're off and running. Let's talk about the weekly recommendation. This is actually an older record, but one that I've been listening to so much recently, and I'm doing this also because my friend on the show, Joey, is a huge fan of this band as well. The record is by a band called Day of Suffering. The record is called the Eternal Ghod, which is a very incisive name of record. But this record came out I want to say, nineteen ninety seven North Carolina metalcore, like definitely around this or around the same time as like Prayer for Cleansing and that sort of stuff, and you know predates between the Buried and Me, and you know, the North Carolina metal core scene is very incestuous. A lot of these members, you know, did a lot of things, you know, played in a lot of different bands. Day of Suffering has done some reunion shows, like I want to say, in the mid twenty tens they did. But this is just it's a punishing record and it's one of those things where it's like, even though it's like eight songs, I want to say, it's not easy you listen to and usually once I'm done with like the third or fourth song, I'm like, oh, I gotta take a break for a moment. But I mean, just an absolute smoke show over record. If you like stuff that is heavy and you've never heard Day of suffering. Please do yourself a favor. It's streaming in all the normal platforms. You're able to easily excess it, and it's very worth your while if you care about metalcore, which obviously you probably do if you're listening to the show. Anyways, let's talk to my friend Joey about why is hardcore so popular right now? Why?

But you can always email the show one hundred Words podcast at gmail dot com. Respond to all emails, and you know, love to hear your thoughts and whatever it is that's on your mind, love to receive that as a repository for all of those thoughts. You can also leave a rating and review on the Apple podcast page helps out tremendously. Same thing on Spotify, except it's even easier. You just leave a rating on there. Just tap it on your mobile device. Some stars Boom, You're off and running. Let's talk about the weekly recommendation. This is actually an older record, but one that I've been listening to so much recently, and I'm doing this also because my friend on the show, Joey, is a huge fan of this band as well. The record is by a band called Day of Suffering. The record is called the Eternal Ghod, which is a very incisive name of record. But this record came out I want to say, nineteen ninety seven North Carolina metalcore, like definitely around this or around the same time as like Prayer for Cleansing and that sort of stuff, and you know predates between the Buried and Me, and you know, the North Carolina metal core scene is very incestuous. A lot of these members, you know, did a lot of things, you know, played in a lot of different bands. Day of Suffering has done some reunion shows, like I want to say, in the mid twenty tens they did. But this is just it's a punishing record and it's one of those things where it's like, even though it's like eight songs, I want to say, it's not easy you listen to and usually once I'm done with like the third or fourth song, I'm like, oh, I gotta take a break for a moment. But I mean, just an absolute smoke show over record. If you like stuff that is heavy and you've never heard Day of suffering. Please do yourself a favor. It's streaming in all the normal platforms. You're able to easily excess it, and it's very worth your while if you care about metalcore, which obviously you probably do if you're listening to the show. Anyways, let's talk to my friend Joey about why is hardcore so popular right now? Why?

Am I don't buck cud?

Am I don't buck cud?

That's die?

That's die?

Why w wom down down?

Why w wom down down?

Tell me downside?

Tell me downside?

What the job bub die Brighte?

What the job bub die Brighte?

Why yo? So yes, mister mister Cahill. As a first of all, we're never We're not going to solve the world's problems by answering this question nor answer this question. But this is something I know that you and I probably spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about compared to normal humans. So in your opinion, Joey, why is hard so popular right now?

Why yo? So yes, mister mister Cahill. As a first of all, we're never We're not going to solve the world's problems by answering this question nor answer this question. But this is something I know that you and I probably spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about compared to normal humans. So in your opinion, Joey, why is hard so popular right now?

That is a tough question to answer. But I have theories. I think, well a few things. I think one I think the biggest answer, honestly and is way above me and my or way below me in age, is I think TikTok. I think there's like a TikTok craze that has like taken over, and I think it's putting it in the face of people who have never seen anything like this before.

That is a tough question to answer. But I have theories. I think, well a few things. I think one I think the biggest answer, honestly and is way above me and my or way below me in age, is I think TikTok. I think there's like a TikTok craze that has like taken over, and I think it's putting it in the face of people who have never seen anything like this before.

That's a good that's a very good topic. Well, Drew, will you know, as they say in the business world, will double click on. I do think, you know, I completely agree with you. I think that there's especially I mean, I know that we've seen this broadly in other genres like you know, screamos, grams or whatever, and then like shoegaze. You know, it's like these bands that are I'll use I'll pick on one in a good way, like a band like Glare where they're a really good band. Seen them live once, They're good, Like are they setting the world on fire? No, But they have absolutely you know, put a stranglehold on people using their music because it's you know, whatever inoffensive like good vibes, whatever. And to your point, like just the ability for people to include music in whatever it is that they're posting. Like some bands get just massive hits and you can't really predict and it.

That's a good that's a very good topic. Well, Drew, will you know, as they say in the business world, will double click on. I do think, you know, I completely agree with you. I think that there's especially I mean, I know that we've seen this broadly in other genres like you know, screamos, grams or whatever, and then like shoegaze. You know, it's like these bands that are I'll use I'll pick on one in a good way, like a band like Glare where they're a really good band. Seen them live once, They're good, Like are they setting the world on fire? No, But they have absolutely you know, put a stranglehold on people using their music because it's you know, whatever inoffensive like good vibes, whatever. And to your point, like just the ability for people to include music in whatever it is that they're posting. Like some bands get just massive hits and you can't really predict and it.

I mean it's like, you know, a data remembers arguably whatever you want to come a hard hardcore band or not. Like that's a conversation for another day. But like that that disrespect your surroundings like thing ah, Like it feels like such a gateway, like so what is this? Like you know, people see that and it's like like I've done you know that, right, jokingly play that and then smash records in the store. It's funny, you know, and like but you know, so I think it's also a way that yeah, if you're like, you know, joking around, like post a video of like fighting with your friends and it's like, oh, put on heavy music and you know it just I think like like you never know what's going to take off, and like right, like it's not hard not hardwore, but like the fact that Pinegrove became this TikTok sensation is like what what happened?

I mean it's like, you know, a data remembers arguably whatever you want to come a hard hardcore band or not. Like that's a conversation for another day. But like that that disrespect your surroundings like thing ah, Like it feels like such a gateway, like so what is this? Like you know, people see that and it's like like I've done you know that, right, jokingly play that and then smash records in the store. It's funny, you know, and like but you know, so I think it's also a way that yeah, if you're like, you know, joking around, like post a video of like fighting with your friends and it's like, oh, put on heavy music and you know it just I think like like you never know what's going to take off, and like right, like it's not hard not hardwore, but like the fact that Pinegrove became this TikTok sensation is like what what happened?

Yeah, it's true in the same way that like we can look back on different social media eras and the dissemination of music and being able to I mean, it's the same conversations that I know you and I were having working at record labels looking at certain bands being like dude, they're getting like you know whatever. Well again, I'll be specific in pick out bands where it's like job for a cowboy, where you're just like why do they have like ninety hundred million plays on MySpace and like this is crazy and to exactly your point where it's just like you can't tell why certain things hit, but then they hit, and then they spread it to people to your point who have never been exposed to it.

Yeah, it's true in the same way that like we can look back on different social media eras and the dissemination of music and being able to I mean, it's the same conversations that I know you and I were having working at record labels looking at certain bands being like dude, they're getting like you know whatever. Well again, I'll be specific in pick out bands where it's like job for a cowboy, where you're just like why do they have like ninety hundred million plays on MySpace and like this is crazy and to exactly your point where it's just like you can't tell why certain things hit, but then they hit, and then they spread it to people to your point who have never been exposed to it.

Well, that's like, you know, there's a list of bands that have like are like in the midst of it now, and I can kind of like figure out a lot of them, not figure out, but like have an understanding. But then like a band like Speed, who arguably is the most hardcore of like the hardcore bands that are like blowing up like I don't like I like Speed. Speed is probably my favorite of this batch of bands. And it's like they just kind of sound like trapped under ice, like why sure, you know, like but I mean something No.

Well, that's like, you know, there's a list of bands that have like are like in the midst of it now, and I can kind of like figure out a lot of them, not figure out, but like have an understanding. But then like a band like Speed, who arguably is the most hardcore of like the hardcore bands that are like blowing up like I don't like I like Speed. Speed is probably my favorite of this batch of bands. And it's like they just kind of sound like trapped under ice, like why sure, you know, like but I mean something No.

It's it's like the ability to articulate what makes something special, Like you know, you need you know, forty minutes to like speak about why this particular band. But sometimes it's like when you peel away the layers of why certain bands are able to capture this momentum and attention where it's like, you know, the kids from Speed have existed in the Australian hardcore scene for you know whatever fifteen plus years and play.

It's it's like the ability to articulate what makes something special, Like you know, you need you know, forty minutes to like speak about why this particular band. But sometimes it's like when you peel away the layers of why certain bands are able to capture this momentum and attention where it's like, you know, the kids from Speed have existed in the Australian hardcore scene for you know whatever fifteen plus years and play.

In a billion members of Relentless, which was a six one three on a band, So you know, you're welcome world exactly.

In a billion members of Relentless, which was a six one three on a band, So you know, you're welcome world exactly.

The only reason that Speed exists is, you know, Relentless crawled, so Speed could run. But yeah, you're exactly like the idea of like being around something long enough. It doesn't make it inevitable that you will find some level of success, but it does. It for sure doesn't hurt because then when you are, you know, in that spotlight, you are ready. And that's why I Speed, you know. I still remember like when I interviewed Gem for the Outbreak podcast last year. I was talking to him and he was like he spoke of the fact that this was like their twenty fifth show or something like that, you know something, And I'm like, that is so hilarious to think about that a band could be able to exist in such a short period of time and be so good live only because they played in a million bands and existed around that.

The only reason that Speed exists is, you know, Relentless crawled, so Speed could run. But yeah, you're exactly like the idea of like being around something long enough. It doesn't make it inevitable that you will find some level of success, but it does. It for sure doesn't hurt because then when you are, you know, in that spotlight, you are ready. And that's why I Speed, you know. I still remember like when I interviewed Gem for the Outbreak podcast last year. I was talking to him and he was like he spoke of the fact that this was like their twenty fifth show or something like that, you know something, And I'm like, that is so hilarious to think about that a band could be able to exist in such a short period of time and be so good live only because they played in a million bands and existed around that.

So yeah, and kind of like I mean to bands, not I mean, it's not really that they guess they weren't they weren't other bands, but a band like I think a big reason also for where we are today is you know, like a band like Turnstile, who is this? Like you know there came one from hardcore and just kept at it, and you know, glow On just became this like crossover like everyone liked it. But it's like, you know, their their first big tour, they bring ceremony. Who is that band? Not combusted? Why can't I think of the band?

So yeah, and kind of like I mean to bands, not I mean, it's not really that they guess they weren't they weren't other bands, but a band like I think a big reason also for where we are today is you know, like a band like Turnstile, who is this? Like you know there came one from hardcore and just kept at it, and you know, glow On just became this like crossover like everyone liked it. But it's like, you know, their their first big tour, they bring ceremony. Who is that band? Not combusted? Why can't I think of the band?

I don't know, someone will correct us, OK.

I don't know, someone will correct us, OK.

Yeah, but it was like ceremony citizen a band I can't think of, and then like truthful. So it's like, you know, if you're like a quotes like normal kid going to see Turnstile and you walk in in ceremonies playing, you're like, how do you not get more interested in what is happening?

Yeah, but it was like ceremony citizen a band I can't think of, and then like truthful. So it's like, you know, if you're like a quotes like normal kid going to see Turnstile and you walk in in ceremonies playing, you're like, how do you not get more interested in what is happening?

Yo?

Yo?

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Let's make this quick rockabilly dot com awesome place to buy all of your merch officially licensed front bands. Use this promo code one hundred words or less. That's the number one zero zero words or less ten percent off your entire order. You want a black Sabas shirt done? How about a Grateful Dead shirt done? How about a Marilyn Manson hoodie done? How about it, Bring me the Horizon long sleeve.

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I named a bunch of random bands, but they have over half a million items. You can purchase ships to you directly from the Midwest here in the United States, fast customer service in case you run any issues, but you shouldn't because they're totally on top of it. So rockabillity dot com. Have fun shopping and use the promo code one hundred words or less ten percent off your entire order. Let's go right your Your world changes in the same way that you know when you and I started to attend shows, like there is that ability to interact with those opening acts and be like, oh, it's either more of the same or it's just like something is unique about this and I can't say why.

I was literally the other day telling someone about I want to go see Good Ridden when I was like, you know, a total fat epitaph kid and Show of Hands opened. It was at the showcase and it was kind of like my first exposure to God. Was it Show of Hands at the band before Show of Hands?

I was literally the other day telling someone about I want to go see Good Ridden when I was like, you know, a total fat epitaph kid and Show of Hands opened. It was at the showcase and it was kind of like my first exposure to God. Was it Show of Hands at the band before Show of Hands?

Oh no, no, it's probably Show of Hands because it was yeah, there's they turned into Welcome to your Life.

Oh no, no, it's probably Show of Hands because it was yeah, there's they turned into Welcome to your Life.

It was, but it was like but you know, it's like kids were stayed but I feel like it wasn't shore whatever, but like kids were stay saving and I was just like, oh, this is this is cool like this you know, and I like, yeah, so yeah, like seeing something different out there can really have a big impact on you. Yeah, and I could you know, Yeah.

It was, but it was like but you know, it's like kids were stayed but I feel like it wasn't shore whatever, but like kids were stay saving and I was just like, oh, this is this is cool like this you know, and I like, yeah, so yeah, like seeing something different out there can really have a big impact on you. Yeah, and I could you know, Yeah.

The something I have thought about as well, like kind of you know, dovetailing because again, like I was joking about, there's no singular answer, like it's all of these and more. But like the fact that now that punk and hardcore has had time to permeate throughout all of culture and all of these people, like you know, I mean, we're in our forties and there are people who are obviously older than us and people who are younger than us being able to impact the world either if they you know, don't go to shows anymore, but they're taking all of those things that they learned from shows and applying it towards whatever creative medium that they're you know, deploying. It's like that stuff just is sort of heartbreaking. The DNA, and so, like, I do think that the ability for this to generationally have time to percolate is only helpful to be a to introduce this to a much broader audience because people are like, oh, yes, like I've at least heard of the term punk or hardcore, you know.

The something I have thought about as well, like kind of you know, dovetailing because again, like I was joking about, there's no singular answer, like it's all of these and more. But like the fact that now that punk and hardcore has had time to permeate throughout all of culture and all of these people, like you know, I mean, we're in our forties and there are people who are obviously older than us and people who are younger than us being able to impact the world either if they you know, don't go to shows anymore, but they're taking all of those things that they learned from shows and applying it towards whatever creative medium that they're you know, deploying. It's like that stuff just is sort of heartbreaking. The DNA, and so, like, I do think that the ability for this to generationally have time to percolate is only helpful to be a to introduce this to a much broader audience because people are like, oh, yes, like I've at least heard of the term punk or hardcore, you know.

Yeah. Well I also think like part like, you know, not that bands are really getting swallowed up by major labels yet I think it's bound to happen.

Yeah. Well I also think like part like, you know, not that bands are really getting swallowed up by major labels yet I think it's bound to happen.

But like.

But like.

When we were getting into punk and artcre like the idea of selling out was like a real thing. I don't think anyone cares anymore.

When we were getting into punk and artcre like the idea of selling out was like a real thing. I don't think anyone cares anymore.

No, you're right, no one there. No people are looking. They're looking for opportunities to you know what people would define as selling out ten to fifteen years ago.

No, you're right, no one there. No people are looking. They're looking for opportunities to you know what people would define as selling out ten to fifteen years ago.

Yeah, and so like these bands, you know, and bands playing bigger rooms with barricades and you know, big stage production. It's not like the idea of like, oh, hardcore belongs in a basement is like like there is still that sect of people who's like, hardcore belongs in a basement. But I mean your average kid who's just like I just want to go punch something, doesn't care where it's at.

Yeah, and so like these bands, you know, and bands playing bigger rooms with barricades and you know, big stage production. It's not like the idea of like, oh, hardcore belongs in a basement is like like there is still that sect of people who's like, hardcore belongs in a basement. But I mean your average kid who's just like I just want to go punch something, doesn't care where it's at.

Right, And what are your thoughts? I mean, especially because I mean you own a record store, you sell records, you have you know, existed putting out records and selling records many many years ago at another record store, Like when you kind of compare and contrast certain things, like we'll use a specific band like knock Loose, where you know the similarities they have with you know, bands from the nineties and early two thousands, Like you can draw a straight line there and they would be the first people to wave those flags as well. So like do you do you place any difference on like I guess the amount of units that you're moving now with a band like that versus like, you know, the newest tribune or release in the early two thousands that I know you and I were being like, dude, how many EPs of Azazel did we sell? Like this is crazy, Like you know, do you find a difference there or is it kind of like.

Right, And what are your thoughts? I mean, especially because I mean you own a record store, you sell records, you have you know, existed putting out records and selling records many many years ago at another record store, Like when you kind of compare and contrast certain things, like we'll use a specific band like knock Loose, where you know the similarities they have with you know, bands from the nineties and early two thousands, Like you can draw a straight line there and they would be the first people to wave those flags as well. So like do you do you place any difference on like I guess the amount of units that you're moving now with a band like that versus like, you know, the newest tribune or release in the early two thousands that I know you and I were being like, dude, how many EPs of Azazel did we sell? Like this is crazy, Like you know, do you find a difference there or is it kind of like.

The the same?

The the same?

The difference is that everyone is buying then loose record, you know, like the people we sold knock Loose records do are like emo kids, hardcore kids, metal kids, normal kids, not no, you know, normal yeah, brilliant. Yeah. Like but like if you're coming to buy an Azazel record, like you're not listening to to to k rock or the radio, but like knock Loose has fans that are just like music and they like heavy music. You know, they're they're the same people like that have bought like olymp Biscuit Records, you know what I mean, Like.

The difference is that everyone is buying then loose record, you know, like the people we sold knock Loose records do are like emo kids, hardcore kids, metal kids, normal kids, not no, you know, normal yeah, brilliant. Yeah. Like but like if you're coming to buy an Azazel record, like you're not listening to to to k rock or the radio, but like knock Loose has fans that are just like music and they like heavy music. You know, they're they're the same people like that have bought like olymp Biscuit Records, you know what I mean, Like.

Yeah, like you're you're not You're not part of a I hear what you're saying where it's like you're not part of a scene, Like you're not so identified towards this, like you know, you're a hardcore punk kid. It's just like I just like.

Yeah, like you're you're not You're not part of a I hear what you're saying where it's like you're not part of a scene, Like you're not so identified towards this, like you know, you're a hardcore punk kid. It's just like I just like.

Using and like using Disazel, like to buy an Azazel record like you have to. You're like in the no Like we sold a crapload of them, but it was to like the same group, whereas a band like Knocked Loose turnstyle like Scowl, Like everyone's buying them, right.

Using and like using Disazel, like to buy an Azazel record like you have to. You're like in the no Like we sold a crapload of them, but it was to like the same group, whereas a band like Knocked Loose turnstyle like Scowl, Like everyone's buying them, right.

You have to. It's like that idea, you have to know what you're looking for, like you were, you know, shooting fish in a pretty small barrel of what you're talking about, well, you know, using Tribunal as another example of being like everybody is going to every you know, twenty people that are paying attention to the label are going to come into the record store that we worked at shout out Biannic Records to buy those records, but it's the same twenty people as opposed to now that pool is much much larger and it's a much broader cross section.

You have to. It's like that idea, you have to know what you're looking for, like you were, you know, shooting fish in a pretty small barrel of what you're talking about, well, you know, using Tribunal as another example of being like everybody is going to every you know, twenty people that are paying attention to the label are going to come into the record store that we worked at shout out Biannic Records to buy those records, but it's the same twenty people as opposed to now that pool is much much larger and it's a much broader cross section.

Azazel wasn't selling out a six thousand cap room in LA three thousand in Boston, and yeah.

Azazel wasn't selling out a six thousand cap room in LA three thousand in Boston, and yeah.

Yes, that is very I mean who knows. I mean they could, they could reunite and all of a sudden, but yeah, no.

Yes, that is very I mean who knows. I mean they could, they could reunite and all of a sudden, but yeah, no.

I think I saw them with they played the preyer for Cleansing Undying show a couple of years ago. There you go, I don't anticipate them doing that.

I think I saw them with they played the preyer for Cleansing Undying show a couple of years ago. There you go, I don't anticipate them doing that.

Well, right, No shots North Carolina Medicore at its finest, Hey, friend, listen, merch is important.

Well, right, No shots North Carolina Medicore at its finest, Hey, friend, listen, merch is important.

Buying stuff from independent companies is important, and that is why I love working with Evilgreed dot net. They ship merch from Berlin, Germany with a very specific point of view, like they don't open the flood against every band all over the world. They focus on cool, artistic, heavy stuff and trust me, if you listen to the show, you will absolutely love the type of bands they work with, whether it's Nails two hundred, Stab Wounds, Blood Incantation, or whether it's like the more core side of things with Triple B or Flat Spot, records. Trust me in saying that you will find probably bare minimum, like one hundred items that you're gonna want, vinyl sweatshirts, long sleeves, all that stuff. Evilgreed dot net. It ships from Berlin, Germany, but the exchange rate is very advantageous for us right now here in America. So there's no reason you can't shop till you drop go to evilgreed dot net and enjoy the awesomeness that is there. What do you know, I'm sure that you pay attention to just as much as many other music nerds like you and myself, the you know like Spotify play counts where it's like you're looking or not even play counts, but just like how many followers they have, because I mean, I know that in the touring community in the same way that people paid attention to, you know, who was in your top aid in MySpace or whatever, like, there's so much equity and value placed in those follower accounts where it's like and especially when you compare and contrast where it's like I know, I looked up the other day where it was like okay again, knock loose, it's like two point three million versus like, you know a band that is just as hot, but you know, arguably much less quote unquote popular based on these you know, follower accounts of being like, oh yeah, well speed is you know they're on everyone's the tip of everyone's tongue, but you know they only have a couple one hundred thousand followers or whatever. Do you like, do you pay attention to that as well? Do you think that that has something to do with perception of the bands?

Buying stuff from independent companies is important, and that is why I love working with Evilgreed dot net. They ship merch from Berlin, Germany with a very specific point of view, like they don't open the flood against every band all over the world. They focus on cool, artistic, heavy stuff and trust me, if you listen to the show, you will absolutely love the type of bands they work with, whether it's Nails two hundred, Stab Wounds, Blood Incantation, or whether it's like the more core side of things with Triple B or Flat Spot, records. Trust me in saying that you will find probably bare minimum, like one hundred items that you're gonna want, vinyl sweatshirts, long sleeves, all that stuff. Evilgreed dot net. It ships from Berlin, Germany, but the exchange rate is very advantageous for us right now here in America. So there's no reason you can't shop till you drop go to evilgreed dot net and enjoy the awesomeness that is there. What do you know, I'm sure that you pay attention to just as much as many other music nerds like you and myself, the you know like Spotify play counts where it's like you're looking or not even play counts, but just like how many followers they have, because I mean, I know that in the touring community in the same way that people paid attention to, you know, who was in your top aid in MySpace or whatever, like, there's so much equity and value placed in those follower accounts where it's like and especially when you compare and contrast where it's like I know, I looked up the other day where it was like okay again, knock loose, it's like two point three million versus like, you know a band that is just as hot, but you know, arguably much less quote unquote popular based on these you know, follower accounts of being like, oh yeah, well speed is you know they're on everyone's the tip of everyone's tongue, but you know they only have a couple one hundred thousand followers or whatever. Do you like, do you pay attention to that as well? Do you think that that has something to do with perception of the bands?

I think it definitely has to do with perception. I definitely look at all that stuff. But I also, having run a record label, know that those numbers mean nothing, Like I mean they mean something like if you see two million, you're like, oh my god, But like how many of those songs are on playlists and getting played at someone's work just on shuffle? You know what I mean? Like we've we've had bands on the label who were like, we have three hundred thousand monthly listeners, but like no one comes to our show, and it's like you have one song on a playlist that it just it doesn't translate to fans. But I you know, it is a great like thing to put on a like a you know, we're trying to get this tour. It's like we've got two hundred thousand monthly listeners, right, two hundred thousand fans. You know, it's like a weird like when it's like, oh, they have this many followers on the internet, but they're getting like, you know, twenty likes a post. It's like, okay, well that doesn't mean anything then, so yeah, Like I definitely pay attention to the monthly listeners, but I also know the what it that it doesn't always translate to a true fans.

I think it definitely has to do with perception. I definitely look at all that stuff. But I also, having run a record label, know that those numbers mean nothing, Like I mean they mean something like if you see two million, you're like, oh my god, But like how many of those songs are on playlists and getting played at someone's work just on shuffle? You know what I mean? Like we've we've had bands on the label who were like, we have three hundred thousand monthly listeners, but like no one comes to our show, and it's like you have one song on a playlist that it just it doesn't translate to fans. But I you know, it is a great like thing to put on a like a you know, we're trying to get this tour. It's like we've got two hundred thousand monthly listeners, right, two hundred thousand fans. You know, it's like a weird like when it's like, oh, they have this many followers on the internet, but they're getting like, you know, twenty likes a post. It's like, okay, well that doesn't mean anything then, so yeah, Like I definitely pay attention to the monthly listeners, but I also know the what it that it doesn't always translate to a true fans.

Right, It's like the notion of it.

Right, It's like the notion of it.

I have to give this a haircut because I know that not all of these people are actually engaged. Like, yes, well they get the notification that a new piece of music comes out, yes, but are they are they actually engaged with that next step of seeing a band live, buying a.

I have to give this a haircut because I know that not all of these people are actually engaged. Like, yes, well they get the notification that a new piece of music comes out, yes, but are they are they actually engaged with that next step of seeing a band live, buying a.

Shirt or whatever.

Shirt or whatever.

We get like emails like label wise for like bands being like there's this many monthly listeners and then this many followers and then this many super far or what I don't know what they call them, like super listeners, and it's like those are the people you want to target, or like, those are the people who are truly fans of the band as opposed to the listeners who, just like I said, put it on a playlist hits shuffle and you know, may not track who that was, but you know, they're still going to add to the monthly listener count. But I do think it big picture. Someone looks at that sees two million monthly listeners for knocked Loose, is like that's a big deal.

We get like emails like label wise for like bands being like there's this many monthly listeners and then this many followers and then this many super far or what I don't know what they call them, like super listeners, and it's like those are the people you want to target, or like, those are the people who are truly fans of the band as opposed to the listeners who, just like I said, put it on a playlist hits shuffle and you know, may not track who that was, but you know, they're still going to add to the monthly listener count. But I do think it big picture. Someone looks at that sees two million monthly listeners for knocked Loose, is like that's a big deal.

Yeah right, it's not, you know, yeah, I mean that is a it's percept. Yeah, And it's also a perception too. Like this dovetails into another subject or I mean similar or similar topic of just the idea of the perception where it's like, you know, using the half Heart show that I know you attended at the Palladium outside in the parking lot where you know, what was eight thousand kids, ten thousand, I can't remember what was the number.

Yeah right, it's not, you know, yeah, I mean that is a it's percept. Yeah, And it's also a perception too. Like this dovetails into another subject or I mean similar or similar topic of just the idea of the perception where it's like, you know, using the half Heart show that I know you attended at the Palladium outside in the parking lot where you know, what was eight thousand kids, ten thousand, I can't remember what was the number.

It was like nine thousand tickets sold.

It was like nine thousand tickets sold.

Which arguably is like the largest sort of individual hardcore show that's probably ever existed up that up to this point. And so like do you place the perception of like, oh, okay, because people saw this thing being so big that it becomes that sort of you know, snowball rolling down the hill of accumulating other people because they're like, wait, like I saw this picture. It's so crazy. I need to, you know, be a part of this in whatever capacity it may be. Do you think that there's something that's attached to that as well?

Which arguably is like the largest sort of individual hardcore show that's probably ever existed up that up to this point. And so like do you place the perception of like, oh, okay, because people saw this thing being so big that it becomes that sort of you know, snowball rolling down the hill of accumulating other people because they're like, wait, like I saw this picture. It's so crazy. I need to, you know, be a part of this in whatever capacity it may be. Do you think that there's something that's attached to that as well?

For sure? Like how I don't know how you can see that and not at least be curious like it was. I mean, that day was one of like the craziest experiences of going to shows in my entire life, like almost ten thousand people, And I think that's the thing that makes hardcore so special and interesting. It's like there were ten thousand people there and it felt like a hardcore show, you know. A couple months later I went and saw it was like Rancid and Pennywise at the same venue and there was like four thousand people there and it felt like a concert, do you know what I mean? Like yep, just like and I think people seeing these videos of this half Heart show where there's so many people immigranted there was no barricade, but like it's such a different experience than like a big punk show or a big rock show that there's no way to be see that and be like, yeah, the very least your interest is going to be peaked, right.

For sure? Like how I don't know how you can see that and not at least be curious like it was. I mean, that day was one of like the craziest experiences of going to shows in my entire life, like almost ten thousand people, And I think that's the thing that makes hardcore so special and interesting. It's like there were ten thousand people there and it felt like a hardcore show, you know. A couple months later I went and saw it was like Rancid and Pennywise at the same venue and there was like four thousand people there and it felt like a concert, do you know what I mean? Like yep, just like and I think people seeing these videos of this half Heart show where there's so many people immigranted there was no barricade, but like it's such a different experience than like a big punk show or a big rock show that there's no way to be see that and be like, yeah, the very least your interest is going to be peaked, right.

And there's something that I find interesting too, like the longevity of certain bands where it's like, I mean, Half Heart is an example of obviously a band that broke up their you know, mystique and myth lived on far longer than you know, what the band did when they were actively touring. But I look at certain like a band that continually amazes me in regards to their increasing popularity.

And there's something that I find interesting too, like the longevity of certain bands where it's like, I mean, Half Heart is an example of obviously a band that broke up their you know, mystique and myth lived on far longer than you know, what the band did when they were actively touring. But I look at certain like a band that continually amazes me in regards to their increasing popularity.

There's two examples.

There's two examples.

I'll actually use one of them, like Kubla Khan, where you know, they were just grinding it out doing some tours and then all of a sudden. When I say all of a sudden, it's like, yeah, fast forward twelve years later. Now they're you know, selling out venues that are you know, two thousand and three thousand cap rooms, and it's like wow, and they're not clearly reinventing the wheel, like they're not doing anything necessarily earth shattering, but now they're as popular as they ever have been. And then alternatively, a band like Silverstein that's existed for twice as long and can be you know, in their tenth or eleventh record and still be increasing in popularity. So I realize I'm too pulling two random examples for you to speak on, but like, do you think that the longevity of certain bands also kind of helps that inevitability of being like, well, eventually they will be a little bit more popular.

I'll actually use one of them, like Kubla Khan, where you know, they were just grinding it out doing some tours and then all of a sudden. When I say all of a sudden, it's like, yeah, fast forward twelve years later. Now they're you know, selling out venues that are you know, two thousand and three thousand cap rooms, and it's like wow, and they're not clearly reinventing the wheel, like they're not doing anything necessarily earth shattering, but now they're as popular as they ever have been. And then alternatively, a band like Silverstein that's existed for twice as long and can be you know, in their tenth or eleventh record and still be increasing in popularity. So I realize I'm too pulling two random examples for you to speak on, but like, do you think that the longevity of certain bands also kind of helps that inevitability of being like, well, eventually they will be a little bit more popular.

Yeah, and it's all but like the look at those two bands, like they've both worked their asses off.

Yeah, and it's all but like the look at those two bands, like they've both worked their asses off.

You know.

You know.

It's like I think a lot of bands these days are like if there's hype behind it, it's like they play weekend. They the shows are crazy, but eventually it's gonna fizzle. Whereas like Silverstein has toured I feel like relentlessly from the beginning, and it's like, you know, that is definitely gonna You're gonna grow a fan base, You're gonna like it's gonna keep. If it's not growing, then why are you still doing it? You know what I mean? Like at some point if it's failing, it's not gonna work. But sure, sure, And that's why you know a band like Scowl, like they came out of the gate and just they've toured a ton, like you know, I think it like really says a lot like you just don't don't feel like you don't see that a lot with new bands that are just like the you know, the term road dog doesn't really apply to many newer bands these days. So when I see a band just out there like grinding away, like and it starts to click, like good for them, Like put in the work.

It's like I think a lot of bands these days are like if there's hype behind it, it's like they play weekend. They the shows are crazy, but eventually it's gonna fizzle. Whereas like Silverstein has toured I feel like relentlessly from the beginning, and it's like, you know, that is definitely gonna You're gonna grow a fan base, You're gonna like it's gonna keep. If it's not growing, then why are you still doing it? You know what I mean? Like at some point if it's failing, it's not gonna work. But sure, sure, And that's why you know a band like Scowl, like they came out of the gate and just they've toured a ton, like you know, I think it like really says a lot like you just don't don't feel like you don't see that a lot with new bands that are just like the you know, the term road dog doesn't really apply to many newer bands these days. So when I see a band just out there like grinding away, like and it starts to click, like good for them, Like put in the work.

Right, something something good potentially could come out of this, whether it's your intended goal or whether it's something that's even larger than your intended goal. Because to your point, exactly of these bands that are just kind of putting one foot in front of the other and they don't expect these opportunities, Like yes, there's always the exciting notion of writing a wave, like I know that you and I live through the idea of like when everything started to happen around you know, tin to fight, balance, composure, lat dispute, TIChE like all of our friend our collective friend group, when that stuff started to happen like that, you're cresting, You're riding a wave, and like all those bands benefited from it, and but it was only through the work that they put into it beforehand were they able to like actually you know, completely drowning the metaphor like get up on the surfboard.

Right, something something good potentially could come out of this, whether it's your intended goal or whether it's something that's even larger than your intended goal. Because to your point, exactly of these bands that are just kind of putting one foot in front of the other and they don't expect these opportunities, Like yes, there's always the exciting notion of writing a wave, like I know that you and I live through the idea of like when everything started to happen around you know, tin to fight, balance, composure, lat dispute, TIChE like all of our friend our collective friend group, when that stuff started to happen like that, you're cresting, You're riding a wave, and like all those bands benefited from it, and but it was only through the work that they put into it beforehand were they able to like actually you know, completely drowning the metaphor like get up on the surfboard.

Like those four banj mentioned, like twoured a ton, right, it and it clicked.

Like those four banj mentioned, like twoured a ton, right, it and it clicked.

You know.

You know.

It's like I just I think that's an element that is kind of lost these days. But when you see it, like you know, a band like Spy, Like Spy tours a lot, and it's like they just kind of sound like that sound like Oaks, right, people that like you know, they're doing they're selling out like two three hundred, four hundred cap rooms and it's like good for them. Like put like if you do the work, the thing that like we always talked about the labels, like just put your head down and do the work, you know, and if you can do that, you know, it's not always going to pay off, but it can. It's going to pay off more than just like you know, hoping for the best.

It's like I just I think that's an element that is kind of lost these days. But when you see it, like you know, a band like Spy, Like Spy tours a lot, and it's like they just kind of sound like that sound like Oaks, right, people that like you know, they're doing they're selling out like two three hundred, four hundred cap rooms and it's like good for them. Like put like if you do the work, the thing that like we always talked about the labels, like just put your head down and do the work, you know, and if you can do that, you know, it's not always going to pay off, but it can. It's going to pay off more than just like you know, hoping for the best.

Sure, so being super being super selective. Yeah, no, I totally get that.

Sure, so being super being super selective. Yeah, no, I totally get that.

You know, And at the end of the day, if it doesn't work, like you toured the country field time a few times, you had fun with your friends, like.

You know, And at the end of the day, if it doesn't work, like you toured the country field time a few times, you had fun with your friends, like.

Right, you're collecting these experiences.

Right, you're collecting these experiences.

Yeah, but that's definitely something you can look back on and have fun and be proud of be like, yeah, I did that, I accomplish it, put out a record, so be it. Yeah, do you The last thing I want to hit on was the idea of the I guess diverse, you know, sort of mixtape generation where people obviously the moment that everybody had the entire recorded history of music in their pockets. That gave the ability for everybody to listen to everything at any particular time.

Yeah, but that's definitely something you can look back on and have fun and be proud of be like, yeah, I did that, I accomplish it, put out a record, so be it. Yeah, do you The last thing I want to hit on was the idea of the I guess diverse, you know, sort of mixtape generation where people obviously the moment that everybody had the entire recorded history of music in their pockets. That gave the ability for everybody to listen to everything at any particular time.

Do you think that.

Do you think that.

The lack of being you know, so self identified with one particular scene. It's like, yes, you can listen to a bunch of different things, Like do you notice that I guess kind of helping hardcore reach more people?

The lack of being you know, so self identified with one particular scene. It's like, yes, you can listen to a bunch of different things, Like do you notice that I guess kind of helping hardcore reach more people?

Yeah, you know, it's funny. It's like we were listening someone put out a playlist on the store from on Spotify and it was like Caperone and ethel Kine and stuff like that. But then on it was the Knocked Loose song with Poppy, and it's like this was a Spotify generated playlist and it's like, you know, someone's listening to these like female artists, and it's like then all of a sudden, Knocked Looses on there with Poppy, who, you know, one point was more of a pop artist than than what she does now, and it's like that's definitely going to open someone's eyes, you know, and then I think like being able to make, like you said, a mixtape but in your pocket that you can send to everyone and make it available for like if so if someone searches Scowl, and then it's like a playlist with a bunch of bands that you know either sound nothing like Scowl or sound a lot like you know. It's like everything is available to everyone.

Yeah, you know, it's funny. It's like we were listening someone put out a playlist on the store from on Spotify and it was like Caperone and ethel Kine and stuff like that. But then on it was the Knocked Loose song with Poppy, and it's like this was a Spotify generated playlist and it's like, you know, someone's listening to these like female artists, and it's like then all of a sudden, Knocked Looses on there with Poppy, who, you know, one point was more of a pop artist than than what she does now, and it's like that's definitely going to open someone's eyes, you know, and then I think like being able to make, like you said, a mixtape but in your pocket that you can send to everyone and make it available for like if so if someone searches Scowl, and then it's like a playlist with a bunch of bands that you know either sound nothing like Scowl or sound a lot like you know. It's like everything is available to everyone.

Right, and it doesn't it doesn't have to be so coded in the tribalism that exists within the context of the scenes that were so disparate prior to the Internet being what it is now, it's like, you know, you the only reason you found out about stuff is because friends passed it to you or you just randomly tripped across it in like a magazine or zine or whatever. And so it's like now you can kind of drink in every piece of culture and be like, oh, yes, like, you know, do I look like like a nineties hip hop kid? And do I listen to you know, Speed or whatever? And then also post Malone, it's like, yeah, it all exists in the same stew well.

Right, and it doesn't it doesn't have to be so coded in the tribalism that exists within the context of the scenes that were so disparate prior to the Internet being what it is now, it's like, you know, you the only reason you found out about stuff is because friends passed it to you or you just randomly tripped across it in like a magazine or zine or whatever. And so it's like now you can kind of drink in every piece of culture and be like, oh, yes, like, you know, do I look like like a nineties hip hop kid? And do I listen to you know, Speed or whatever? And then also post Malone, it's like, yeah, it all exists in the same stew well.

And then it's like, you know, post Malone posting pictures with all these bands, it's like exactly but and like I think, you know, social media obviously plays a huge part, but you know, I look at Twitter and half the things that are on my feet are things I don't follow.

And then it's like, you know, post Malone posting pictures with all these bands, it's like exactly but and like I think, you know, social media obviously plays a huge part, but you know, I look at Twitter and half the things that are on my feet are things I don't follow.

You know.

You know.

It's like this algorithm of well, maybe you'll like this, And I think that's another way people will be like, if you like slip Knot, you should check out. You know, this heavy band kind of thing like you gets put in your face without even you knowing.

It's like this algorithm of well, maybe you'll like this, And I think that's another way people will be like, if you like slip Knot, you should check out. You know, this heavy band kind of thing like you gets put in your face without even you knowing.

It, right, it's pulling you in a little bit of a direction where it's like, oh, okay, like I can you know, I can listen to this because this is, you know, somewhat adjacent to.

It, right, it's pulling you in a little bit of a direction where it's like, oh, okay, like I can you know, I can listen to this because this is, you know, somewhat adjacent to.

The thing that I care about. So yeah, totally.

The thing that I care about. So yeah, totally.

Well, we're not going to solve this question, but I think hopefully that will point people in, you know, the direction of thinking about this, because I you know, ultimately, it's just exciting to watch this thing grow to where who knows what the ceiling is now we thought we did, but now we don't.

Well, we're not going to solve this question, but I think hopefully that will point people in, you know, the direction of thinking about this, because I you know, ultimately, it's just exciting to watch this thing grow to where who knows what the ceiling is now we thought we did, but now we don't.

I still think back to Sound and Fairy twenty twelve when we it sold out and we did twelve hundred tickets and we were just like unbelievable.

I still think back to Sound and Fairy twenty twelve when we it sold out and we did twelve hundred tickets and we were just like unbelievable.

I can't believe that anyway, that was our that was our apex.

I can't believe that anyway, that was our that was our apex.

It's like, what I twelve hundred ticket. This will never happen again. It's like sound Fair is doing five thousand tickets, So it's great.

It's like, what I twelve hundred ticket. This will never happen again. It's like sound Fair is doing five thousand tickets, So it's great.

Yeah, well, thanks for thanks for trying to answer this very deep, philosophical and important.

Yeah, well, thanks for thanks for trying to answer this very deep, philosophical and important.

Question always and I will I will continue to think about it as I always do.

Question always and I will I will continue to think about it as I always do.

Yeah, well, revisit this in a year and be like, oh, oh we're all wrong. Yeah.

Yeah, well, revisit this in a year and be like, oh, oh we're all wrong. Yeah.

There you have it, the absolute definitive answer to why is hardcore so popular?

There you have it, the absolute definitive answer to why is hardcore so popular?

Right now?

Right now?

Obviously I'm joking, but hopefully hopefully that gets your mind thinking in different ways about this music scene, because I mean, as much as music is a form of entertainment, it is so much more to us who are really deeply involved in this subculture. And I think it's important to think about the way this kind of stacks up against other movements, other subcultures, etcetera, etcetera. So thank you very much Joey for pontificating with me. And next week we have are back to our regularly scheduled programming of interview based stuff. I'm very excited to have Pedro Carrio, Carrio Carrio. There we go, I'm hitting the rolling of the tongue. But Pedro is the guitarist for Dying Wish and I love the band. I love how hard they work. Pedro is a very sweet dude, and we had a great conversation.

Obviously I'm joking, but hopefully hopefully that gets your mind thinking in different ways about this music scene, because I mean, as much as music is a form of entertainment, it is so much more to us who are really deeply involved in this subculture. And I think it's important to think about the way this kind of stacks up against other movements, other subcultures, etcetera, etcetera. So thank you very much Joey for pontificating with me. And next week we have are back to our regularly scheduled programming of interview based stuff. I'm very excited to have Pedro Carrio, Carrio Carrio. There we go, I'm hitting the rolling of the tongue. But Pedro is the guitarist for Dying Wish and I love the band. I love how hard they work. Pedro is a very sweet dude, and we had a great conversation.

So that's what I got.

So that's what I got.

Next week, Pedro from Dying Wish, And until then, please be safe, everybody,

Next week, Pedro from Dying Wish, And until then, please be safe, everybody,