Rejoice at the top of Steak MTN, we have Chris Norris on the podcast today! He's a true multi-hyphenate as an artist, author and illustrator. He played in the band CombatWoundedVeteran from Florida and has a deep history within the punk and hardcore scene down there. He also was a creative director/set decorator for a porn company that we spend some time discussing (because, that's wild). He's extremely sarcastic and self-deprecating so we got along swimmingly well. Check his site, buy his books and consume his art.
Listen to the Official Outbreak Podcast here (executive produced by yours truly)
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You're listening to one hundred words or less with Ray Harkins. What is up, everybody? How are you doing this fine afternoon or evening.
Or maybe you're walking your dog.
Maybe you're just like hanging out trying to escape from maybe your family.
I don't know.
There's a lot of different things going on. I know when I listen to podcasts, but if this is your first time here. We have discussions with people involved with independent music, whether that's creating it, documenting it, putting it out, playing it. And this person signifies that because they document a lot of it from an artistic visual perspective, also played it very instrumental within the I don't know.
I guess he would call it power violence scene as it were. His name is Chris Norris.
He played in a band called Combat Wounded Veteran, and he also is known in the art community, as it were, as Steak Mountain. I love his art. I love what he has brought to the table. He just has a really interesting style and sensibility about him. I mean, basically, he's a very self deprecating person, and he says, I just draw, you know, brightly colored skulls and stuff like that, which you know is a little diminishing his work, but you know he'll be the first person to do that. But this was a really fun conversation. Chris and I corresponded over Instagram many months ago because he was like, hey, listen to the show, Like what you do You just want to tap in and say hi? And I was like, Chris, I actually wanted you on the show. Very serendipitous happened perfectly, So that's what we got. He's not really promoting anything, but you can easily find all of his work at Steak Mountain m t N dot com.
Yeah. I was just trying like like we did remove all of the vowels.
Yeah, anyways, you can find all of his work there. He's done great stuff for a lot of different bands, a lot of different interesting projects, whether it's book covers, et cetera, et cetera. And then we talk about you know, Combat Wooden Veteran because I freaking love that band and I got exposed to them pretty you know early on in my you know, punk and hardcore, I have to find every band from every genre and all their affiliated acts what have you. And so once I got into the Florida scene, I was like, oh, my gosh, Combat Wooden veteran, just like.
How what do you mean you got like twenty eight songs?
Like?
What do you mean you did a split with Reversal?
Man?
Come on, I gotta know more.
Anyways, let's talk about how you can support the show for absolutely free, zero dollars. It costs you nothing. You can leave a rating and review on the Apple podcast page. You can leave a rating on the Spotify page. Also, I publish all of these episodes on YouTube, so if you like consuming the podcast that way, you can just follow along with the playlist, and then every time I publish a new episode you get an update all that fun stuff. You can also email the show one hundred words podcast at gmail dot com. I appreciate any and all emails that come in, whether it's just like hey man, just tapping in, want to share my band, want to share this idea with you, and all that stuff. I love to hear from all of you. Anyways, I'm quite continuing on in my weekly tradition of recommending stuff to you because I just I personally like the podcast and stuff that I listen to, or you know, anything from a music based algorithmic perspective, I'm always looking for new stuff, so this technically isn't new because it's a band that has existed for many years. But Surprise dropped an EP. You know what I'm talking about, The Hope Conspiracy Confusion, Chaos and Misery EP that then came out. I want to say it was November of last year, twenty twenty three, and it's so good. They do it, you know, an anti Cimex cover Cemex. I've never said that out loud, but and it. I mean, it's pissed. It's everything you want from Hope Conspiracy. It's just you know, nihilistic, just skulls and just blood and guts and everything in between. I'm a huge fan of Hop Conspiracy. Actually, I am thinking of a memory where the first time they came out to the West Coast, it was actually with Every Time I Die. I saw them at the Showcase Theater in Corona and they only had their demo out, but I was obsessed with it because I was lucky enough to get it out. I want to say it was like a Hellfest two thousand and one or something like that. I got their demo out there and just just loved it. It's eventually turned into the seven inch that they released on Life Records, which.
Why do I know these stupid details?
Anyways, I just remember I got, you know, singing along up front, got pushed back into the pit, and then I had a moment of terror because I am not like a you know whatever, swing in my arms, windmills, all that sort of stuff, like maybe I'll do a circle ped occasionally. But I got pushed out to the middle of the floor and had that fork in the road moment.
Like do I want to try this for the first time?
And I opted not to, and I just ran back upfront and started.
To sing along with them.
So a very specific memory connected to Hope Conspiracy. But anyways, please listen to their new EP and I have a link in the show notes that you can follow along with the playlist on Spotify because I update that weekly for everything that I mentioned, so you can, you know, at any point you can duck into there and see all the stuff that I've enjoyed and recommended over the year.
So that's what we got.
Let's talk to mister Chris Norris from combat wooded veteran also known as Steak Mountain. Yeah, clearly over the past whatever ten to fifteen years, you've been a man around town. In regards to the the book environment, which objectively, subjectively whatever word you want to put in there is like one of the hardest things to do. But I know you've articulated in the past like yo, it's easier than like putting together a movie. But there has to be the idea of like a strategy around writing a book. Like I know there's like a million different ways you can you know, skin a cat or whatever. But how is it one of those things where it's like literally every day you wake up and are like, all right, dude, I gotta get my you know, seven pages in or like, how do you even tackle a project like that?
Well, it's I'm a little My viewpoint on it is I think a little bit different than someone who wants to be a writer. Let's put it that way. So for me, like the book writing the first book anyways, Hunchback eighty eight was something that I just kind of fell backwards into and it wasn't about page and it wasn't about I mean, I don't know if you've seen it, but for anybody who has out there, Hunchback Idiot is a fucking nightmare it's not a It's not a book, like in the sense that like I don't know fucking for whom the Bell Tolls is a book, or you know, fucking less than Zero is a book or anything like that. It's it jumps around, it's really nonlinear, and it's more about texture and atmosphere and just general just throwing shit at the wall kind of book. So for me, that was like, I don't do you know, to just get right to the point. No, I don't wake up every day and decide I'm going to write. I write sporadically when I do write, and that's kind of it. I'm because I don't see myself as a writer. I see myself as a hobbyist who writes, you know, like I don't just like this is the same way I feel about Steak Mountains. Like, if you're making a living off of whatever you do, then you can call yourself whatever that is. But if you're just somebody who you know at eight pm at night is like Xerox and Skulls, you know, for somebody's shitty hardcore record. I'm telling you I'm not an artist. Then I'm just a hobbyist who get some fucking burrito money occasionally from some friends who I just you know, Xero from Xerox, a fucking skull for a T shirt for And the same thing was with writing, is that I think that like writing is incredibly hard, and especially I think for people who take it extremely serious or even kind of serious, not even extremely serious, just serious. And I'm not one of those people. And I just thought it was fun and I hunchback eighty eight came along, and I'll just make this quick because I'm sure anybody listening to this has already heard seventeen thousand podcasts and me talking about this. But I had a job where I didn't do anything that I just had to be there from eight to five. I came back to New York from San Francisco in two thousand and nine. I worked there for three years at this place in Manhattan where I just had to show up like eight to five, and they were just like, just be here. You don't have to do anything, we just need you here just in case something happens. So I watched movies, I made, I did against me record designs there, I did everything. But I started to write screenplays because I love movies and I just knew that I would never make them because I just don't have that kind of drive. And I was like, well, I could probably just kind of start fucking around and turning him into a book. And that's essentially what Hunchback eighty eight was is just this collage of like three kind of slasher film things, you know, slasher film scripts and whatever, and then so, you know whatever. But then during the pandemic, I'd started something. I had started something else called The Holiday, which is the new book that recently came out in October twenty twenty three on Rose Books, and that was a little bit more like pointed, and I wanted I was writing something I think a little bit more linear, but again I think it's linear, but i'm I know it's not. And people told me it's still a difficult, pain in the ass book, and that's totally fine. But yeah, I guess. I'm sorry this is such a long winded answer, but ultimately the answer, uh no, I don't wake up every day. I don't take it seriously. I've been extremely lucky with with the visibility and interest in the books that I've written, but in no way do I consider myself a writer in any capacity. And it's just like another thing that I do. I've done a lot of shit, you know.
Right, it's the the discipline, as it were, where it's like, yeah, you're not you to your point. You use this as a tool for expression, and like that, the flight of fancy of being like, oh, I'll write a book whatever, Like it's not this like all right, man, I want to really chisel away at this, you know, this this stone of marble.
Yeah, And I wish I could, but I don't even think I have like a I don't even think I have a story like that. I don't think like that. Now. My goal in life is to eventually get to a point if I can continue to write books where I'm just writing the world's most basic bitch shit, like I'm writing like an airport thriller or a or a fucking you know, Judy Collins fucking book or something. That's the dream is to have the most generic, like base, basic bitch fucking thing that I've written. But I don't. I don't know. I don't know if I could ever end up being that boring. But I wish I could be, Like I wish so I'm but I just don't. I don't think like that even when I'm writing, because I'm like not concerned if any of you fuckers understand what's going on, you know, and my like the clarity of my writing or whatever. I tried a little bit more for Rose Books because it was a challenge to see how how shaped it could be and how pointed it could be, and how kind of literated it could be. Because Chelsea's readership and her reach and the crowd that she like caters to, the fan base whatever, are people who actually fucking read. For Hunchback eighty eight, I was catering to like, you know, mutants and idiots and goofballs and weirdos because and not that was not my intention, but that's just you know, the kids who bought it are kids who know Steak Mountain, you know what I mean. And like with Rose Books, it was a little bit different. And how I've been describing the difference between the two books is is that like Hunchback eighty eight was my scrappy indie like if it was a movie, and The Holy Day is like is my first studio picture, you know what I mean. So it's like, you know, it's a little bit more focused and a little bit more, you know, like some editorial, like you know, notes were taken and considered, but it's still like a you know, still kind of a kind of a goofy ride. But and I guess like one of the things I've been relating it to in with that statement is and I in no way in comparing myself to this artist at any capacity because he's actually good and I'm just been lucky. Is it's the difference between David Lynch's eraser Head into The Elephant Man. You know, it's like Eraserheads, this fucking nightmare. I'm always hesitant to say shit like fever dream in quotes, but realistically speaking, it is. And then you watch The Elephant Man and it has a linear story. It's still a little weird, still a David Lynch movie. There's still all these like touches, you know what I mean. But he won a fuck an oscar. There was Oscars involved in that movie, you know what I mean. So that's kind of always how I relate the difference between the two books. But in no way, I mean, I could just stop right now. I mean, I you know, I started working on another book, but I nobody, you know, we might be talking about it in five or six years, you know what I mean, Because that's because I again, I write, like, oh yeah, I'm gonna write a little piece here. You know, I'm gonna write a little piece here. But I'm not disciplined enough because I don't I'm not a writer. And no one's not down my door, you know, like Rose books, like the success of the Holy Day, and it's like minor scale hasn't given me like uh, you know, agents start knocking down my door, and Penguin Random House isn't calling me.
You know.
It's like I don't have a reason to write. No one's interested in the next book yet, you know what I mean, And so I just uh yeah, anyways, man, just you're gonna have to like reel me back in, dude, because like I will, fucking I will talk for fifteen minutes about nothing. So I apologize.
You know it's okay. Well, first of all, welcome to the world of podcasts.
And second, I know, I know, well, like I've done a couple of these things where like all of a sudden, it's like literally three hours later, and I don't want to do that to you. You know, yeah, You're like, where are we?
Why do we wandering here. No that is so no, I got you. Well, we'll we reel you back.
So all right, good please the I know.
Correct me if I'm wrong you were actually were you born in Salem, Massachusetts?
Or yeah? That I was born and raised in Salem and I left in uh nineteen eighty nine and we moved to right outside Tampa, Florida.
Got it.
Yeah, I mean, first of all, the like, Salem is a weird ass city, and then on top of it, Tampa is also a weird ass city. But I'm sure very different experiences obviously, Like do you have I mean, do you have memory of Salem?
I know you? Oh?
Absolutely, Like okay, got it? Yeah? No, No, I mean I left at thirteen, you know what I mean. So I'm I'm forty six, so I was cognizant enough, you know what I mean through you know what I mean, And I remember, you know, my childhood there and the things I used to do, and you know, I haven't been back in a really long time, even though I have relatives in that area. But and it's literally, like, you know, five hours away from New York. But I just I haven't been back in probably twenty years. So but yeah, no, I do. And yeah, and then we moved to Tampa.
So they're both.
Yeah, they're both odd. I always like that, like the origin story of Steak Mountain and that kind of like, oh, I grew up in Salem and then moved to a trailer park in Tampa is actually such a good story, and I love it because it's so googig because most people are like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm from Dayton and then I'm I'm you know, I moved to just Nevada City, you know what I mean. It's like whatever, you know, So it's it's a cool two places to kind of grow up in or we yeah, you know what I mean, odd places to grow up in, you know.
So totally they have they have their own distinct person I mean, every city has its own distinct personality, good or bad.
But like, yeah, these are two.
Interesting spots that you know, have different different connotations and different histories they do.
Yeah no, yeah on'es one's cool and ones like a punchline, punchline of a joke, I know, you know what I mean. So you know which is fine, like oh Tampa, oh cool? Yeah great?
Right, yeah, yeah, what was the U?
I presume the move to Tampa. Was that based off of like your you know, family switching jobs or whatever.
Oh no, Yeah, my grandparents were in Saint Petersburg and my grandfather had passed away from uh passed away from leukemia. And my mom is one of four children, but is the is the child who had the job that didn't matter, you know what I mean. Like, so I have an like an aunt who's a chemist in a hospital in Salem, and an uncle who works for Exxon, and you know, so everybody had these real jobs, and my mom was just like data entry at like Salem hospital, so she could get up and move to go help my grandmother and took everybody with her obviously, you know. And I was really excited about Florida because I literally thought we were moving into like a Frankie and a Net movie from like the sixties.
You know.
I was like, like I thought, I thought it was gonna be beach Blanke at Bingo, but instead we got kind of like kind of deliverance, you know what I mean. So I it was kind of a culture shock for sure. And I and as a kid, I was like definitely like an indoor kid, you know, like I had friends, I'm sure, I played with other kids and things like that, but I loved movies and I left comics, so I spent a lot of time either alone or like bullying my little brother and then being alone. So in Tampa, when we moved into a trailer park, there wasn't you had to go out because it's too small of a fucking space. So that was more of a culture shock because kids in a trailer park in Florida are exactly what you think they are. They're a stereotype, you know. It's like thirteen year old drug users and all these like you know, so it's like clans members, clan members and shit like that. It was like really like like couldn't be more of like a generic like trailer park scenario in Florida, you know, sure, you know, and like the one the one girl who was like, I'm going to bring my black boyfriend home to my parents, and it was like a whole thing, you know what I mean. It was like, you know, it was like it was like scary and weird and uh, but also like kind of cool and interesting because it was so nasty and fucking obviously just informed my enthusiasm for like the lower rungs of life, you know, of society.
Oh absolutely, well when especially when you experience it not only firsthand, like you're not being the you know, the tourist, you're not visiting a trailer park for you.
Know, a couple hours and being like oh yeah, like this is what it is.
You're like I get it.
Yeah, yeah, no, I lived it, and like there's I mean, and plus too, the idea, like you said, of being outside, the fact that there was the ability for you to be outside year round, as opposed to you know, Salem where it's like, you know, we're hold.
Up for like three months, you know, because it's freezing.
We can't it's freezing, and I'm you know, we're going to go to the movies. We're gonna go to the fucking video store, We're gonna go to the comic book store, and then that's it.
You know what I mean.
So like and then going to stay home all the time as much as possible, you know what I mean? So no, yeah, but but yeah, but no, yeah, absolutely, it's it was an interesting childhood for sure, that's one way to put it.
Sure was the uh you know I know that you'd mentioned previously. It's like, you know, getting Air dropped into Florida and obviously, like you know, death metal is popping off, Like, yeah, you was the introduction because are you the oldest child in.
The group of you Yeah, definitely yes, okay, yeah, so you one other brother, uh chunk, so yeah, and uh but I was already like I was already like a like a little metal kid, you know. I was more like of a hair metal kid and and and I loved Motley Crue and I loved Glamorock and stuff like that. But I was still very aware of things like Slayer and Maiden and things like that. So like when we and that was like a horror movie nut. So when we came into Florida and to Tampa, I mean it's nineteen eighty nine, so uh you know, oh bit you obit. You always like slowly Rewrod is happening, and you know, the DA Side record is the first DA side record is about to come out. And there was a huge article in our local like Alternative Free Weekly, which was called Creative Loafing about this D side show where they had throwed they threw guts and blood on the crowd, and I was like, what the fuck is this?
You know, why was I not there.
Yeah, yeah, like this is fucking incredible. So I was thirteen and read this thing and it changed it. Really like that article changed changed my life because it showed me something I didn't I didn't know was happening even though, and it really kind of like set a different course for me. And I met and I was in middle school and I met Paunch Dan Shook, who I started combat with. We were in an art class together and we were both kind of horror movie kids and we kind of gravitated to each other. And then we started going to shows. Like my first show was like it was a d Side Monstrosity Sorosis show and it was a massive effect on me. But it was like the prime time to be in Tampa for this, you know.
Sure, there was like all these.
Guys weremoving, Cannibal was about to move. Like we would see David Vincent from More Abid Angel around the fucking around town all the time. It was like these guys were just around. It was like kind of neat being young and kind of seeing these people who we thought were like larger than life.
You know.
Yeah, well and that's incredible too, from especially, I mean, you can make that connection with punk and a hardcore because it was definitely you know, more like hand to mouth, but you know, metal at that point was you put like you said, you know, popping and to actually humanize metal where it's like.
Oh dude, they're David Visit. That's insane, Like yeah, yeah, totally.
That makes it more tangible for you, which is like awesome and that's exactly what you need at that age.
Yeah, it was.
It was.
It was really incredible and it was neat because like there was this place called Ace's Records, and Ace's Records was kind of like the heart of the death metal community in Tampa and they would do in stores and you just walk in there and like the Tardi brothers from Obituary, it would just be hanging out and it was like in a fucking it was in a flea market and Oldsmar which is like outside of Tampa, and it was just like you just go there. We'd go there and be like, oh, we're gonna buy you know whatever, gonna go buy some fucking tapes and you just see these guys hanging out and it was like so awesome for us as kids, you know, just yeah, because humanizing it and being like, oh, these these guys just look like dirty, older versions of us, you know.
Yeah, I see my soul, I see my future being laid out before me.
Yeah.
It was really cool. And then and then eventually, like what ended up happening was we veered off the road a little bit because Chris Barnes from Cannibal Corps did vocals on on an Assak seven inch, a guest vocal and we were like, what the fuck is this like assk thing? And we went to a show at this place called the Blue Chair and saw Assuck and probably like Scrug and some other local like kind of heavy but not death metal or even metal bands, and we and uh it that changed our life too, like Paunch and I you know, so we we we really like, you know. And then obviously we went down that road. And not long after that we were buying Slap a Ham records and finding about fucking more grindcore and power violence and punk in general, you know, because also at that time, like we were starting to get into punk, but like not cool punk, like lame punk like epitaph shit.
You know.
Sure, so it was like running the more mainstream.
Yeah, we were running this this double road. Yeah, sure, we knew about Black Flag, and sure we knew about GBH and things like that because you kind of pick up that stuff even through death metal or grindcore. But we were also like going to see fucking Penny Wise play and being like okay, cool, yeah, and the.
Offspring you're like, you're like Flag Wagons pretty yeah.
Yeah, black Wagons all right? That for me that faded pretty quickly, but like, but but you know, it's still a good like run of high school and just going to those shows on top of going to see both of our play or you know, fucking seeing Sepultur before they were huge, or you know things like that.
So yeah, well, and I think it's I think it's very emblematic of many of our experiences as we start to collect these musical genres where we just like the stuff we can't really describe besides like it's loud and fast or whatever.
Sure, you being able to sample.
That wide swath of bands like is very informative of obviously the art that you create and all that stuff. Just being able to be like, Okay, you know, I can see what they're doing over here, and I can see what they're doing over here, and like somewhere in the middle of land or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, and eventually, yes, eventually I did.
Let's get your closet right.
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I mean, I was always an art kid. I was always drawing in Salem and everything. And I was always very like I think, got noticed, you know a lot by art teachers as some sort of talent in some in some capacity. And so I was always interested in art. And then when you know, when I went into high school, I went to an performing arts high school in Saint Petersburg, Florida, because I you know, I moved. When I moved to Tampa, I went into eighth grade and I had a graphic arts teacher there. It was a graphic arts class. It wasn't called art, it was actually like graphic arts. And I was like, that's weird. So we did screen printing and we did monoprints and all these other things. And I there was some kids there who were submitting their portfolios to go to this performing arts high school, and I was like, I don't want to do that. That sounds fucking stupid. And he convinced me to do it. And it's one of those and it might have set the tone for how I operate in general, but I making any art or doing anything is that. Like I procrastinated, and then the night before I did all the assignments that you have to do before the essentially what is an audition, you know at this art school. And and everybody who in my class who applied didn't get in but me. They all tried hard and they did their self portraits and they did all this fucking dumb shit. And the night before I was like, self portrait, Uh, draw still life, you know. And my mother at the time, you know, she was like, you know, what the fuck's wrong with you? Christopher? You know what I mean, Like, God, damn, you always fucking procrastinate, you know, and and I ended up getting in and it was hilarious. And I'm always just extremely lucky I've found in life like that, and uh just makes me not try very hard in a lot of situations because I'm like, whatever else it works, it's gonna fucking work out. I always get what I want, you know what I mean. So, so I'm gonna write a book and then somebody puts it out and I didn't even really have to try, you know what I mean. It's like that. It's it's really annoying, actually, and I don't look at I don't look my luck, and like you know, I don't I don't take it for granted. I just sometimes I'm just like, whatever, I'm probably gonna get this thing. So that happened. But I've always been interested in art, and you know, and then I have a feeling you're about to ask a question, so I'm gonna stop talking.
Yeah, no, you're okay, you killed it, killed it the uh and so like you were kind of talking about the you know, life plan as it were, I presume was not you know, clearly drawn where you're you were gonna, you know, end up doing what your parents did or anything like that. Or like you said, you know, pursue further school or what have you. Was there not saying a goal? Was there a sort of target that you're like, oh, yeah, I just want to like, you know, draw skulls and eventually make you know, some art for bands or whatever. Was there any vision towards that or just be no, not at all. I grew up I I grew up in the kind of house that didn't my parents didn't not encourage me, you know. But my parents are very realistic people who are like and I'm sure a lot of creative kids parents are like this, where like you should have a backup plan. It wasn't even like they should I should have a backup plan. They were just like, don't count on this because like you, you know what I mean, you should just make sure that you just have a job somewhere.
But you know, they just knew that it was. It was the rarest thing in the world. And they're not they're philistines. They don't know shit about art, and they don't know anything about being creative. Nobody in my family is creative but me so. But they were more just like, you just need to be realistic, you know what I mean? Like, and you should always make sure that you have a real job, and if this other stuff works out for you, that's cool. But I never ever, ever in my life, even thought that I would be in some sort of artist as a career. I just always was like, well, I guess I'm gonna work at Taco Bell, and I guess I'm gonna get an office job. You know. I just didn't ever really think. I didn't aspire to it, right and realistically speaking, at the end of high school, when I was done with this arts high school, I was like, I don't even fucking like doing this shit, Like I hate making art. Not because I think I'm bad or my confidence is low. I just like, I don't even now I don't love doing it. At this point in time, at forty six, my life is now on the other side, I'm just it's you know, I'm gonna die somewhere in the next twenty to thirty years, and I've been doing this shit for this long, so I guess I'll just keep doing it because occasionally I can buy a really expensive box set of Blu rays because some asshole wanted a Xerox skull, you know. So I just at this point I don't like doing it. It's not fun for me, Like I don't like I don't have something deep inside my fucking soul where I have to create or I feel weird. Dude, if I was rich tomorrow, I'd never fucking make another piece of goddamn fucking art again in my life. I would sit around and watch movies like it's just not rewarding to me, Like the cloud is a rewarding because like cloud is really the only currency anybody has in twenty twenty three, and so like, I'm not chasing cloud, but I just you know, I've done a certain kind of level of work and people know it, and you know, I'm on fucking podcast because I make this fucking shitty art that is maybe not shitty, but I call it shitty because I have a Boston upbringing, and everything is shitty and self duprecating. See, everything is self deprecating, and so I just think like I but then, like in high school, at the end of high school, I was like, I don't want to fucking do this shit anymore. I hate drawing, I hate making art. I love art. I love other people's art. I was always excited about everybody else's work and just art in general, of all the arts you know, NTS, movies, painting everything, you know. But I thought I was just gonna stop doing art. I was just like, well, I've graduated high school. I'm gonna, I don't know, I'm gonna get on a bus like cobbat bus and go fucking see what San Francisco's about. And I traveled around a little bit. But somewhere in there, Paunch and I decided we wanted to start a band because I don't know, things like crossed Out and what was happening on the West Coast for the power violence. Seeing capitalist casualties man is the Bastard was really exciting for us, and we were like, we could do this, actually, right, you can do some subversion of this, yeah, some version of this. And then when Combat started, well there was a band before Combat called Pioneer Spirit, but it lasted not very long, and Combat was our band. After it, I realized I was going to be the only person in the band who could do the art, you know, Like Ponch just was always pretty good about, you know, making like xerox stuff like that. But I just I knew that I had maybe like a little bit I had something else, and so when we started Combat, it was interesting for me because I didn't want to do black and white. It's ironic now because all I want to do is black and white artwork. But then I was like very like. I was like, Okay, there's a lot of bands who are like, here's a burned baby, you know, and I'm going to xerox it and I'm gonna put a I'm gonna put a stenciled fucking name on top of it. And I didn't want to do work like that. So I thought when Combat was like a fast band, I was like, oh, it's so funny that we should do these fluorescent cover colors and do all this weird kind of like not what our music sounded like kind of art. And then it just kind of expanded from there, and at some point in time I took it more seriously and then that died.
But you know, the well, it's funny because the through line and not only obviously the art that you create, but then Combat would a veteran the idea of being able to you know, play out and obviously combine the the burden of creating the art and then also the fact that you know, you could play in a band and stuff like that, did you.
And I promise this isn't like a loaded question like did.
You enjoy playing in a band or was it kind of like just the vehicle in which you could see, you know, getting out of Tampa.
It's a little bit of both.
I think.
At the time, like when we started, we had a drummer named Combat, had a drummer named Puma. It was our first drummer, and he wasn't very good. He was fine, but he wasn't very good. And then we were looking for a new drummer and we got this kid named Mark Munchiger who was like the strangest kind of kid because he wasn't a hardcore kid. He was kind of like a like a hip hop kind of like a like backpacking kind of hip hop kid who was kind of friends with some of like End of the Century Party and some of these like some of our peers in Tampa. And he was in Ithaca going to school and he would come back for winter break or summer break, and we got along with them and we did one I think we did one practice with him, and he could fucking blaze, dude. He was an incredible drummer, and then all of a sudden we were a good band. You know, we were like, oh fuck like and it was enjoyable when I was doing vocals. When I was on vocals. Later in combat, I switched to guitar and we moved punch from bass to vocals. But at the beginning of combat it was fun, and some of it was It was a good time because I liked I it's you know, maybe this is like the secret of the front person who like doesn't ever really say this, But I liked abusing the crowd like I loved. I loved I loved fucking with people. I loved playing for ten minutes and hitting as many people as I could and being mean to people where you you know, you mean, you could talk shit on the street. You're probably gonna get popped, but you have a microphone in your hands and you're talking to a bunch of kids with fucking choker beads and like jinkos, and you're making fun of them. And it's ten minutes, and it's it's it's it's couched in like bleeding, blistering thirty second bursts of crazy, fucking chaotic hardcore. You can get away with it, and I was really I really loved that actual element of combat.
Right, well especially too we're like I think, I mean even me, like I never.
Got to see well, I don't even correct me if I'm wrong. You guys actually never made it out to the West coast, right.
Yeah we did. We were are you when you were talking to Jeff and you were talking about the P eight shows?
Oh yeah that's right.
No, I did see you guys.
Okay, yeah, that's right, Yeah you did. We played the second we played in two thousand at PCH with reversals. That was our tour. Yeah, we did a whole nine week tour with reversal. Or in ninety nine rather, I'm sorry, ninety eight was there was the Reversal ASSEC tour at pH landed there and then the next summ after the summer, after a combat and reversal, did this thing called the Electric Heath Crew Tour. It was nine and a half weeks and yeah we played pH.
Okay, yeah.
So the point being the idea of like you being able to lean into this you know, version of yourself, like similar to what you obviously do with you know, steak mountains, Like oh yeah, like I have license to be this like completely you know whatever Bostonian you know, butthole or.
Whatever, like yeah, no, total dick, yeah for sure, like to like.
Ham it up, but like that's obviously a part of your personality. Yeah.
And then also the confrontational aspect of like literally everything that Combat Booted Veteran did of just like try to get into this, you know, just I dare.
You to like this.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot of I dare you to like this, Yeah for sure. And it worked out somehow, you know what I mean. And and and it's I can't ever tell if any of it's good, but it's something. And I think we had a very interesting I mean, the visuals obviously drew people in, and the competence of my visuals, which I can be egotistical about that that I think we were able to be part of this wave that happened when we became fast friends with a lot of bands who were just kind of like it was a zeitgeist moment. To use a corneas term that everybody loves to use these days, but it really was that because like when I was making that art for combat and doing fluorescence at the same time, you know, Brian Chippendale and all the Fourth Thunder kids are doing the same kind of thing in Rhode Island, you know, like and we don't know each other, but we're all like, oh, you know, let's do aggressive music and then it's packaged in this crazy fucking art, you know. And but yeah, you know, like it was, it was, it was, you know, and I don't even know what the fuck I'm saying anymore.
No, yeah, no, no, no, I'll bring it back the idea, the idea too, did you Yeah?
I mean going on tour is a whole you know, can of worms that a lot of people have expectations to and then they go out on the road. I mean, you know, the romanticism of the van and the open road and all that stuff exists. But was did your expectations meet the reality? Did you enjoy touring or was it, you know, like it was cracked up to be?
No, I loved it. I love touring because I was And this will be the only sentimental, nostalgic, probably emotional thing I'll say during this is that I was on tour with my best friends. You know, we had a paunch, but not only paunch, but like the guys in Reversal and who eventually mostly joined Combat in the end. You know, it's just like it was a really amazing summer, but also like I've always been a low key understanding opportunities when they happened, and when Combat knew we were going to tour that summer, I was like, well, we could ask anybody in Tampa to go with us, but why wouldn't we go ask other than ask the biggest band in Tampa, which is Reversal of Man. And I just knew if we were booked a nine and a half week tour with River Hustle at the height of their popularity via that ten inch, that no one would ever have to worry about anything because kids would just come out every fucking night and they did, you know, so we didn't really have to struggle to get people to show up. Now, Combat in its own right was obviously like part of this wave of people who are bands who everybody really loved, like Orchid and you know, I can't even think of any other peers at this point in time, but Jerome's Dream or anything like that, or even just Tampa bands like End of the Sentry Party or bands in Gainesville like Palaca, or asshole Parade. But because we shared a guitar player with Reversal, which was Dan Raddy, you know, it just made sense also. But yeah, we were really lucky that summer. I mean, Reversal and then fell apart like a week and a half into that tour and they toured as a three piece for the rest of the summer. But you know what, that ended up working out too because they were an incredible three piece, you know. So and then and when we got home from that tour, I joined Reversal and was in the band until the end, which was about a year a year later. But like, but yeah, no, it was it was awesome. Touring was awesome. It was fun. You're in your twenties, you're uh with your friends, you're talking shit, you know, you're meeting people, you know, and you're playing fun shows that a bunch of kids are like losing their fucking minds during.
And it was it was awesome.
You know, it was a really cool summer.
You know.
So I have only the fondest memories of it, and you know, well, I appreciate.
I appreciate I appreciate you being sentimental because I know, like you said, that's that's not something that you know, you really publicly display.
No, But I think at this point in time, like twenty plus years on, like it's just like I, you know, the bid only goes so far, and it usually goes what's fucking five feet in front of me, you know, So I can look back on things and be like, well, you know what, that was a good time, and it was and I'm not gonna lie like I I I you know, we still all of us still talk, you know what I mean. We're all still friends, you know, right for the most part. You know, there's a couple of stragglers here and there who have fallen out with the with the core group of guys or whatever. But because it's always guys, and but yeah, you know it was. It was. Yeah, it was a great time. We had an awesome time. I you know, I love talking to him and us getting uh you know, uh uh not teary eyed, but you know, just waxing nostalgic, and I get reminded of things that I'm like, oh, I forgot about that. It's awesome to talk about that stuff and kind of play against each other's memories, you know.
Yeah, So I and I think too it's not like the old man in the porch regaling people about you know, the fourth touchdown pass they through the homecoming game or whatever it is, because there is that lasting effect of everything that you know, we the collective scene experience, like by being in these small, sweaty rooms touring, like just just doing it because like no one paid attention to it, and then all of a sudden you have these like twenty thirty forty year relationships where it's like that's not common, Like that's weird.
Yeah, no, it is weird. Yeah, but like but like me and the boys were all going to die together, you know, sure, and that's cool.
To be, you know.
Yeah, so like you know, everybody's you can be nostalgic about it.
Yeah, everybody.
You know, everybody's married now or as fucking kids, or as like cool careers, and it's it's it's it's exciting to have created these bonds with everybody. And now I just I feel like the human embodiment of the reversal mantenage. So so let's move on to snuff. You know, well let's talk about snuff videos.
And well, actually it's perfect you bring that up, because clearly everybody who's ever spoken to you on the internet in some capacity mentions the fact that it's like.
Oh, dude, like Chris was into poorn.
And like, you know, I the thing that I find fascinating about is I mean, like everybody that I know that has either you know, worked in the porn industry or like had some affiliation with it, there was always this like real you know disconnect or it's not even disconnect, but just the fact that it's like, yeah, this is a job, and like it's pretty sick because like there's like wild hours and like you know, like there's there's there's a lot of flexibility of people being able to you know, kind of do what they want. The thing that I wanted to drill down with you on is the fact that you know, you're a set decorator, and clearly that is like the first thing of course people pay attention to in porn is the set decoration.
Yeah, of course, yeah, good, yeah, yeah, They're like like, oh my god, that lamp looks so good in front of that naked women and that dude with that giant cock.
I love evilgreed dot net. They are a web store solution.
For record labels and bands and what have you. But let me just put that aside by saying the fact that you can order merch shirts, vinyl CDs, so much stuff that they offer. But they have a very spec point of view. They're looking at this through the lens of what I would like to call artistic heavy stuff. They're based in Berlin, Germany. But trust me and saying if you like this show, you will absolutely love what evilgreed dot net has to offer. First of all, use this promo code. It is one hundred words gets you ten percent off your entire order. And I know I said they're based out of Berlin, Germany, so you might be a little little skittish, little nervous about ordering from them because it's going to either take a long time or the shipping super expensive. Both of those are false. The shipping is very very fast as far as like, you know, getting over. I've ordered from them before and I've got my orders in like less than a week. You know, of course, there's extenuating circumstances, but trust me and saying you can order with them with confidence, and the shipping rates are very advantageous for us right now here in America, So please hop on that. Let me just list some of the bands that they work with. They got Integrity, Gouge Away. They also work with a ton of cool record labels like Pure Noise Records, Triple B, so many cool things. And I don't care if you are into you know, punk, hardcore metal, as long as it has that you know, through line of artistic heavy stuff. Like I said, Evilgreed has it. So check out Evilgreed dot net. Use the promo code one hundred words and it gets you ten percent off your entire order. So enjoy shopping and buy a bunch of stuff. I'm guessing it gave you, like it gave you this this element of freedom where you're just like I can be as wild and as weird as possible, and then it's still a job because obviously, like I.
Have to make it look cool. Like did you this is kind of a cliche question, but like, sure, did you feel creatively fulfilled?
I guess was it just like or a funny lark of being like, oh, yeah, it's the cool job, so I'll just take it.
No, let's go back a little bit on that one, please. So, for years and years and years, even back to the combat era, I always was saying like somebody, you know, because I'm such a love movie. I love all kinds of movies.
You know.
You can put me in front of a musical, you can put me in front of a Western, you can put me in front of a Pixar movie, you can put me in front of a porno. I love all movies. I love the form. It's my favorite favorite art. But I always kind of a lot of my heroes are porn directors or dabbled in the porn industry. A lot of people who I creatively are huge influences on me, and early on people be like, oh, you should direct movies, and I was like, realistically speaking, what I want to do is I want to direct pornography because I always would see pornography as this really great, like win win situation, Like you can do a piece of pornography, and let's say, how I always say it is that, especially as far as modern pornography goes, you can do whatever the fuck you want in a scenario in pornography, you've got ten minutes to do your thing and then you need to get out of the way, so you could experiment with anything that you wanted as long as there was naked fucking happening in it, and it's a win win situation because naked fucking always sells no matter what context it's in. And so I always loved pornography because I would be like, yeah, I could make movies, but I could also make porn movies. Make the goofy little fucking thing that I like that I want to try to fuck around with. But all as long as, like you know, we've got you know, fucking whatever to people boning in it, it's gonna work out. But it's a creative like, like, it's a very experimental and creatively open kind of genre that I always was really excited about, but I never really thought that I would ever make my way into it because even being in Tampa and with like you know, being kind of a lot of porn stars live there, like you know, Stormy wasn't there yet, but like Peter North lived there, and you know, there's a lot of porn happening in Tampa. But you just like you are just connected from that world because I'm just a hardcore kid.
You know what I mean.
So of course, you know, so when I was in I was here in New York and and obviously at that time, the Alt poom, the alt porn and boom was happening, so like vivid alts and you know, Dave Naz doing stuff and Burning Angel and Bernie Angels, all that stuff is happening. So there's like kind of this this this opening, you know, with like Tommy Pistol was just a hardcore kid from fucking New York and he was starring at things and James Dean and like all these guys with these backgrounds and these girls that Like, I was in New York and it was it was two thousand and nine, and I was tired of being here. I'd been here for six years. I was at the end of a of a relationship. And I had a friend who worked for kink dot Com in San Francisco, and I was talking to him and he told me that there was a position open up opened up there for a set decorator. He was like a photo editor, and he's like, dude, you should just apply. What could happen? You know? So I applied, and the art director for kink dot Com called me, and it turned out he was just like an old hardcore guy, you know. He was like an old blunk guy. And I flew out out there and I did my interview and he basically he was like, you have no set decorating background, but you clearly are a designer and so basically you just you know, you're just putting things in a room like you would put things on a record cover. He's like, so I have full faith that you could do this. And it was again just another one of those like fucking lucky things where I just was like, oh awesome, you know, Like, so I went and did that, and I had a very clear kind of kind of path that I wanted to be. I was like, Okay, well this is my in, Like I'm in the industry now and I'm going to fucking direct. Okay, I'm gonna make my way into kink dot com. I'm gonna flash everybody with my fucking info on like the history of BDSM pornography and know all about porn and know all about film in general. And I really had made my bones and I made myself really essential to the creative process there. It is the greatest job I've ever had and the greatest j I ever will have. And what ended up happening was that towards the end of my last year there, I had finally got an opportunity to direct a few, like they some test shoots, and I'd created a kind of you know decks for a couple of sites, you know that that kind of fit into the kink world, and I was able to direct a couple of you know, test shoots that did really well on their on demand channel. But what kind of happened at the end is that like I had made myself too useful for some of the directors and their visions. You know, they relied on me too much. And there's this very famous meeting that apparently happened where they talked about moving me to an assistant director position or something like that, and a couple of directors just straight up turned against me and said that, like, no, we can't move Chris because he's essential as a set decorator. He's invested and he's excited, and we don't want to move into director because we don't want to lose, don't want to get somebody who's just gonna put a dirty mattress on the floor. Chris is gonna put a dirty mattress on the floor, and then he's gonna go outside to fucking mission and pull a bunch of garbage cans in and dump them everywhere, you know what I mean, He's gonna make it more than that. So I basically screwed myself at being too good at the job of a set decorator, right, you know. And but you know, I was writing scripts with people, I was developing ideas, and I was showing people pornography that worked there that were directors who maybe just didn't realize that what they were doing maybe had been done before.
You know. So it was, it was.
It was a fucking incredible job, really truly, and like not for the obvious reasons. No, no, you know, I mean that's a perk, like being on set and being a voyeur and watching two people fucking, you know, fuck each other is a hilariously weird thing to see, you know, and also realizing how onnrotic it is.
You know, this this is literally just a job. This is simply business. Let's go.
Yeah, And everybody acted like that.
Yeah.
Now, some porn companies aren't, like kink dot Com. Kink was a little bit different because they owned this giant building in San Francisco and it kind of was like like an old like like thirties, like it was like RKO in the thirties or something. It was like you were you know, they had sets in the building, and they had a wardrobe and they had it and they had a cafeteria. It was like a studio, like a proper studio, right Whereas Yeah, whereas like someplace like Evil Angel or something like that, who were in the valley in la are just like working out of a warehouse and they are renting the one mansion that you've seen a million times, like you've seen like Sasha Gray fuck somebody in, or fucking Jenna Jameson fuck somebody in, like, and it was a whole different beast. And it was really fortuitous too, because it was such a weird, dark place and you could do dungeon shoots and you could do horror shoots, and you could do these cool things that I was interested in and like I would have loved to done like a beach babe and a beach dude fucking each other in a beach house, but we didn't have that capability. But I got to like throw chains everywhere and do a fucking hell raisor shoot, or do a video Jerome shoot. It was neat. It was a really incredible job, and it was the only time ever in my life where I've been like, yeah, this is what I want to do, and I was right, you know, yeah, this is the art. And then at the end, I was like, well, they're not gonna let me do what I want. And I did, you know, and I was like, well, fuck this. I just met my you know who's eventually I my wife who I got married to. I had met her and we were having a long distance relationship, and I was like, you know what, fuck all this, man, I'm going back to the East Coast, you know. And and then I bounced, you know.
So sure.
I mean, I'm not gonna be labor all the you know, different art projects that you have been involved in, because clearly you've worked, you know, a lot within the context of the punk and a hardcore scene. This this also may be a loaded question, but like do you still you know, I guess, care about music, Like do you still feel connected to it or is it difficult in the same way that you're like, oh, yeah, like this is my bird to bear with this art that I got to keep doing or whatever. Do you still you know, are there still bands that you care about and listen to and stay active with.
That no got.
I mean, like, like, here's the kind of position I'm at as far as like punk and hardcore goes. I think even when I was involved in punk and hardcore, like I didn't really like punk and hardcore, you know, Like and the only thing that kind of like has sustained through my life is metal, you know, like it's been my through line. I still listen to new death metal bands. I don't actively chase things, but I often will just be like, you know, most of the time, I just wait until literally December and I wait for everybody's into year lists and I go, oh, sick, here's a here's a Bloody in Cantein Incantation record I didn't know came out sure, Or there's some bands I keep up with because I'm friendly with, like you know, Chase from Gate Creeper, you know what I mean. So I know a Gate Creeper records coming out, and I'm gonna listen to it the day it comes out. But a lot of things just kind of miss me because I it's not that I don't care, it's just it's just not not my thing, you know, like.
Right, it's not your priority.
Yeah, it's not my priority. I I you know, but like, but you can almost one always fucking miss me on new punk and hardcore records, I don't give a shit. Like sure, when I hear something cool, I'm like, yeah, that's really cool. But it's like like I always say this about like like like I say this about like White Stripes records. Right, you hear a White Stripes record that comes out, and you're like, damn, dude, this guy can play guitar and this recording is really peculiar and interesting and everything sounds right and it's very cool sounding record that I'm never gonna listen to again. So when there's like a new hardcore punk record that everyone's like, oh my god, you got to bucking hear whatever, I don't even know anymore. You gotta hear fucking Chubby in the Gang or whatever, and I and I'm like, yeah cool, and I hear it, I go yeah, this sick anyways, moving right along, moving right along. I'm gonna go ahead and put on fucking Morban Angels Blessed or The Sick again, because that's a record I listened to at least once a week, so and it's like not a jaded thing. It's just like it's just not my passion, you know what I mean. And I'm part of the world of punk and hardcore more than anything else for obvious reasons because that's where I landed, and you know, and and definitely in like a punk and hardcore or more a punk scene that I just I couldn't be less interested in it, you know, Like yeah, but.
No, I totally get it, especially too where it's like and I think you should be Yeah, I mean rightfully, so like clear eye about the fact that even though you can exist within a scene like that, is not the style of music that I mean. You could probably go through the list of every popular you know, band within the Warped Tour genre or affiliated and they don't listen to anything of what their band sounds like.
Oh dude, you don't even know what the Reversal Man combat bands were, Like, we were just bumping fucking Sarah mcglauchlin and shit. So you think, eitherk I want to listen to fucking earthsap Synaps or whatever in the fucking van or crudos, dude, after we have to play to a bunch of fucking sweaty idiots and fucking like you know, Providence or something. No, we're in the fucking van listening to Ida or Elliott fucking Smith or whatever. You know what I mean, Like we're not, you know, like we're listening. The hardest we got was like, oh cool, like let's listen to the Jawbreaker really quick, you know.
What I mean?
Like, you know, so totally right, and especially because it's like once you become you know, an adult, and you were not so intrinsically attached to a particular scene.
Or whatever, you're just like, oh, yeah, like I just like this music, and you know that's fine. There's no one's gonna blink an eye at it.
Yeah, totally exactly so. But yeah, no, but to answer your question, no, I don't keep up. But you know, I'm I'm aware, you know, I can make jokes about Turnstile, you know what.
I mean, Like you know, you're like I know that band.
Yeah, like basically like the third Eye Blind of hardcore. Like so like you know, I could definitely do that, you know, But but in general, you know, and when something like when something like rises to the top like that, I'm always interested to just hear what everybody's excited about. And I listen to it and I go, yeah, okay.
Yeah, not anyway, It's not for me, right, not for me, you know.
I you know, and I don't go back on a lot of like, you know, I think maybe more from that era, even when of things that I ignored, I've I've taken a second look at and been like, oh, this is actually pretty sick, Like, you know, I hear hate Breed now and I'm like, this is awesome. Like I don't know what the fuck I was even thinking about, like clowning on fucking Jamie in like nineteen ninety eight, you know what I mean. Now I hear that shit and I'm like, Yo, this stuff is sick as fuck, dude, Like what was I even thinking? But I'm still not really listening to it, you know, or or even shit like Earth Crisis, which obviously reversal has like such such a torrid, silly kind of story about. I hear Earth Crisis Old Earth Crisis record, I'm like, dude, this shit slaps dude. I don't even know what the fuck I was even thinking at this point in time. This stuff is awesome, you know. And then I go back and I listen to something from my from that era that I loved, like the Honeywell record or the first antioch Ero, and I think to myself, dude, these records stink. Dude, I hate these records, Like like Heroin was a bad band. I don't care what anybody says, you know, like so, but it's all stuff that I was so interested in at that time being in these bands.
You know, yeah, absolutely, I totally do that. Yeah.
The last two things I want to hit on was sure I presume like there there would be zero desire for you to play in a band again, or am.
I wrong about that?
You know, you're you're right, okay, but but you're But this is a good lead in because we're about to be in the the era of forty six year old dudes who were remembering their fucking youth, who got a little bit of fucking traction from like the the nineteen year old like surge of SCRAMs, like and the kids who like love their band or this year, everybody is not like there's a ton of bands this year that are not going to be leaving the bag on the table.
You know.
Obviously obviously Orchid, which I'm like involved in on an art level, like this wave of Orchid shows, and like obviously we're seeing Dillander escape plan happening. But I I mean, whatever, I don't I'm gonna blow up the whole all the dude spot We've talked about it, like.
Sure, I can.
I can only imagine, especially when you've seen all of your friends that are just like it's like, what is preventing us, Like, there's no reason that we shouldn't do this because I mean no, well, yeah, the idea I understand the idea of when you actually care about the other people, Like we were talking about the waxing nostalgic about your friends where it's just like, oh, yeah, it'd be fun like to do that again because we actually like still care about each other and are connected.
But yeah, anyways continue.
Well like for yeah, it's whatever, it's come up reversal. Well, because we got asked to do these Orchid shows like combat did, like because like those dudes obviously like we played their last shows and we were a very you know, entwined in their world and we've been friends forever and Will and I Will was like one of the first friends I ever got when we started being in bands and started being interested in things that were just below the level, you know, so Will from from Orkid has been my friend for like, I don't know, fucking thirty years, and so I, you know, we talked about it, but we had a really sobering conversation Dan Raddy and I who you know played the other guitar and Combat at the end and was in reversal. We had this just a sobering conversation where we're like, yeah, we could do it. And it goes against everything that I think is, you know, like I don't ever want to do something with Combat or that is helpful to anybody else. So getting back together means people could see us, and I think that that's disgusting, but also like we just had a real conversation where we were like, dude, those old Combat songs aren't like real songs, so trying to the effort that it would take to figure out pre Jason Hammerker. When Jason Hammricker from Frodis joined Combat, that the band changed massively because he's a different kind of drummer and we didn't want to be in hardcore bands anymore. We wanted to be in like fucking am rep bands. So when you get to the last two Combat releases, they sound they're not blistering, fucking crazy thirty second blasts. They're like, oh, yeah, we've definitely been listening to drive like Jayhu and fucking am rep Bands and Unsane and shit. You know. So we but we both thought to ourselves, like, dude, the amount of effort it would take to figure out any fucking song from the LP or the seven inches. It was just like, it's just not worth our fucking time, like you know, like, and we're just not interested. And with reversal, it's probably would be a little different. Conversations have come up, but we've never really decided on anything. But if somebody is gonna be if somebody from that camp that those those two bands are gonna end up doing it, it will probably be reversal. When it's gonna happen. If it's gonna happen, who fucking knows. I'm surprised Jeff didn't talk about it because he's probably trying to be secret about but I don't give a shit. Everybody's out there fucking reuniting. Some of it's cynical. For me, it would be cynical. I'd be like, are you guys kidding me? We're not taking this money and fucking donating it to fucking some fucking you know, farm or some fucking shelter or something like that. Dude, we're taking this money and we're gonna pay our bills with it, you know, Like I don't. I'm not fucking interested in getting a reunion for any reason other than to secure the bag. Truthfully, I love the boys, and but I don't think we need to hold guitars again and be embarrassed in front of a bunch of people, you know what I mean that being said in the right context, I don't give a shit. If there's money involved, of course I'm gonna get involved because I I love money.
You know.
If everything's gonna be paid for and we're not really stressing it, and I just have to take a couple of weeks off of work here and there, fly to Floorida and pick up a guitar that I've not picked up in fucking twenty two years, then yeah, sure, let's do it. But I like, I appreciate everybody's like, you know, so I know some of it's more rooted in like people's midlife crisis.
All these sports by buying a sports car.
Yeah, this is essentially like the hardcore kids sports car. You're like, oh, you add some heat in your twenties with your shitty little band that released something on Ebullition or whatever fucking you know, King of the Monsters or whatever these fucking old fucking labels are. And now like you're a meme on a scram's account and everybody like likes your records and shit like that, and you start seeing things happening more. I can understand how you think to yourself, Yeah, I could get together and we could play some fucking fest or we could play a couple of shows, and people will be like super interested in us, and sometimes it works out, like in the case of like watching Jerome's Dream Come Back. That's been exciting because they're actually turning out music, new music, and it's totally and it's blistering and crazy and Eric and Jeff and and the other guys or whatever they're they're producing cool, cool music and it's neat and they're really actually interested in Like combat would just get back together for the fucking cash. We'd play badly and that would be funny to me, but I also just don't want to put the effort in, you know, And with reversal, that's a different bag altogether because it wasn't my band, you know, so like and and arguably like not arguably truthfully like took it more seriously. Yes, of course they were a real fucking band, dude. Combat was a weekend band that like got lucky, you know, and like Reversal, it was like, you know, listen, if if Reversal I always say this, and I'll say it here too, if Reversal man Uh would have made would have gotten home from our European tour that we broke up after. If that European tour would have went well, we'd probably still be a band, or we would have been a band longer, and we probably would have had a modicum of some sort of career for a little while. But we got home from Europe, we were a battle worn and we didn't want to do it anymore because because it's just like we were, like we were tired of fucking hardcore kids. We were tired of being hardcore kids. And we just had a really terrible, like seven weeks in Europe that is amazing to tell stories about now. But we came home pretty fucking beat.
And I can only I can only imagine.
Yeah, and we lost our drummer, so we couldn't go on what was another six week tour that we had planned with Kill the Man Who Questions. We did fucking like a week and a half with a fill in drummer, which was Jeremy from Kill Them Inn Who Questions, and we fucking and we were like, we don't want to do this anymore, right, this sucks. And then we did a couple of combat shows and you know, and that was like a part time thing, and we played those shows with Orchid their final shows, and then we were like, we don't want to do this anymore either, and I left and I left Florida for New York in two thousand and three, and that was the end of it. You know, so sure, but yes, who knows, right.
The door, the door is open.
But the door is open, probably not for combat but maybe eventually reversal, but mostly because like Dan Rowdy and I don't want to figure out combat songs. That's really what it comes down to.
So I completely appreciate the d I totally get that. Yeah, for sure.
It's like it's like, yeah, sure, but I'm like, dude, the really actually good stuff is the is the fast stuff, and and we're just like, I'm like, I'd love to play that, but I'm like, I don't really want to figure it out. I don't care too hard, not in yeah yeah, if it's too hard, if it becomes if I have to break even a little bit of a sweat on something, I'm going to abandon it. I don't want to work that hard, right, full full stop, full pass.
I'll just go to.
Florida and see the boys and we'll go to dinner and we'll fucking like talk about our lives. And that's better than having to be like, oh god, dude, we're at the venue early and it's what time do we go on? And then we sweat for fucking twenty minutes and I'm like, why did we do this?
Right?
We could have just had dinner. It would have been even better.
We all have jobs that pay us pretty all right. Why do we even do this for the money? This sucks, dude, so right.
Well, the apologies for the Hackey question.
Last, the last thing I want to ask where because I mean, because you you know, do not mince words in regards to obviously your art and the way that you look back on it. There has to be you know, I'm putting on the spot of there has to be a project that you were that you look back that you were happy you were involved with. I know they're all they're your own special children or what have you, but like, is.
There anything you look you want me to hang up on this podcast right now? My own special children?
I know, I'm just kidding. No, no, totally, yeah, I'd say it.
I'm done by We're done.
Ye, yeah, I I affictionally put that in air coorse. But I thought, I thought, I thought maybe that was the case.
I know that you understand who you're talking.
To, uh I do, so, like, yeah, there is there stuff you look back on that you're just like, yo, this is sick that I was involved in this, like not even so much like removing removing your own personal opinion on like oh my skill was very good here, but like, yeah, you were.
Just glad to be involved with.
I think that the combat discography with the vomiting Gutsky, I think that that record in that layout is fucking incredible.
I think that.
For like there's plenty of like intent and then you know, fumbling in a lot of a lot of any still to this day of what I do. But I think the intent to execution to final product of that is incredible. I think that, Uh, the Against Me record, the Dysphoria Blues Record, I think is probably the classiest, nicest thing I've ever designed. That I think is is very is very very good, a good looking record. And I mean there are a couple of things here and there. There are things that I'm i'm I'm I do a lot of things now that I'm far more interested in because I've been whatever. Listen, I talk a lot of shit about Stekemound, and I goof on the fucking art and I goof on people who like it and things like that. But it's afforded me a very cool, like alternate version of life to be able to do and eventually be involved in neat things. And I've been working a lot for this company called Vinegar Syndrome that does a lot of like rescuing of old exploitation movies and things like that. And there's a couple of people there who work there, justin the Liberty and Ryan Emerson who started Vineger Syndrome, who are combat guys or against Me guys or both who have been able to hire me to do slipcovers for cool movies and stuff like that. So it's that recently has been in the past couple of years of working with them, and that kind of kind of bleeding into doing other like kind of cool are uh you know, art things for movies. Sorry, the Hasidic people across the street just started blasting their fucking honka music, so we're gonna be bumping that in the In the final moments here, they have like a like one of those like light up party speakers that they put outside their their space and they just blast it from basically now till nine o'clock. Yeah, happy everybody, so, but yeah, but being able to like the road that has taken me from being like a sweaty kid in Florida to being able to do cool movie stuff because that's obviously my passion has been neat So like recently that's been really exciting. Truthfully speaking, being part of this Orchid thing is really cool to me, just because it's old friends getting back together and you know, what we have planned for these shows coming up and the work that I'm going to be making and what I'm kind of across on that level is fine. But as far as the past goes, yeah, I've done a lot of cool shit, but really like the standouts are in a career of doing dumb shit. I feel like that Combat Discography and that Against Me record are key moments of you know, intent, execution to final product are pristine and exactly what they should be. And so I looked at that stuff and I'm like, damn, but I knew that shit at the moment, Like that's not nostalgia. Looking back. When we finished that Combat Discography, I was like this, like like fucking whatever, like fucking Brad Pitt at the end of Inglorious Bastards, like this might well be my masterpiece, you know.
So it's like, if I go out here, we're good man.
Yeah, Like if I stopped today, like We're cool man two thousand and five, it's over. Dude, Why did it even go go on past that? But but yeah, no, I think that that's really great and and somewhere in there people will I'll probably get reminded. I'm about to start working on this thing that I've resisted for years, which is essentially creating a monograph for the past thirty somewhat years of Steak Mountain artwork. But I kind of cracked the on how I want to present it and it's going to be antagonistic and lazy and mean, and I think that that's fucking hilarious. So there's a Steak Mountain overview, like thirty years of Steak Mountain book that I'm about to start working on. So I'm sure as I start picking things to put inside of it, I'll probably see things that I'm like, oh, wow, this turned out. I forgot about this, or you know, this is a neat thing that I did. But standouts, those are the those are the two main standouts, you know. So they're they're great, they're great looking records, They're they're also just you know, uh, they're cool records, just even on a musical level. For against me, like that's to me their best record because also, uh intent to execution to final product all makes sense. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the band, I respect Laura's songwriting craft. I always have so, like over the years, I've made a lot of offhand comments about the group just because that's my bit, but like realistically, like I've always respected Laura's ability to take what I consider to be Gainsville fucking cargo pants punk that I think is garbage and turn it into actual gold, you know, so like it's a it's a cool record to me, you know, and obviously has like an emotional heft for her and that's interesting, you know. So yeah, and it's cool to be a part of that, you know.
So yeahh No, I love that. Yeah, Well, Chris, we've done it. We made it through the you know, hanukkah wishes you're phone didn't go off. We killed it. And I yea genuine genuinely appreciate you letting me ping pong around your brain with this stuff.
No, that's great, and I'm glad you kept me under basically an hour because you know, I talk too much, So what a dude.
I really enjoyed that conversation because you know, the sarcasm is off the charts. I personally love sarcasm, and so the fact that you know, he just kind of take takes the piss out of himself and it's it's it's just fun to you know, explore that. I really appreciate Chris's artwork in his time in having conversation. Next week, I have a vocalist for a legendary Swedish hardcore band and no, I'm not talking about Refused, I am talking about Abanonda. I have Jose Saxelond on the podcast. We're celebrating the Abanonda discography coming out on vinyl on End Hits Records, and I love this band. I actually got a chance to play with them, oh man, probably like two thousand and eleven or twelve over in Japan, shared the stage with them at a festival, and yeah, I've just always really really enjoyed Abananda. This you know, weird sort of like they are obviously heavier hardcore, but then they have so much depth in regards to the lyrics as far as you know, emotions, et cetera, et cetera. So I was very happy to have this conversation with Jose as he was. I think he was in Berlin, Germany when we caught up with him.
So that's we got next week. Until then, please be safe, everybody,